How many Hawks Fans would NOT select Luka Doncic if he somehow fell to #3?

[Jamaaliver]

The truth is that Luka is playing great and playing better than Trae. There is no getting around that.

Fair and true.

But the other truth is that if it were not for Luka (and the trade) everyone would be friggin ecstatic about Trae despite his poor shooting. Had we had the number 5 pick from the beginning we'd be still celebrating landing Trae.

Less true. Trae has been hard to watch at times.

I suspect if he were still coming off the bench or just recently been named starter, there'd be more optimism. Being forced to see all his warts as a player so early in his development did him (and the fans) a disservice.

#DontStartRookiesOnBadTeamsUntilTheyreReady

[EazyRoc]

I feel like this is all pointless until about Year 3 or 4. It isn’t an apples to apples comparison. Luka plays with better players, has pro experience, and isn’t their PG. Young is flashing ELITE skills offensively with his passing and penetration (I admit that I thought he would struggle much more with penetration). I don’t like the trial by fire approach the Hawks are taking with Young. I think Pierce IS starting to do more to reign him in slowly but surely. Young is a force when he’s attacking the basket and it seems week by week, he’s adjusting to the length in the lane. Just chill and let things run their course. Trae is legit.

How legit is Trae? He has unquestionable skills, but also very evident limitations. If we ran a poll where would you forcast Trae in 3 years; Fringe starter, avg starter, star, supa star?

Have to see how things play out, but that #3 pick last year could end up being the best we get. We really need to pull some TOP talent out of these drafts.

I don't think anyone outside of Ga or Hawk fan is questioning DAl side of the trade. They are happy to have given up this years pick for Doncic. Time will tell, but the time for Schlenk to nail it was last draft

See my previous points. I think you need to re-adjust your expectations if you don’t see a legitimate NBA player. To answer your question, in 3 years I see Trae Young as a legitimate star. Likely a superstar in 5. He’s got work to do in the weight room, but the offensive skills are there. PG isn’t an easy position to learn offensively and is probably the hardest position in the league to defend. ~30 games into his rookie season and Trae is showing a bunch of positives. He looks like a lock to be a star offensively. Efficiency should improve with experience. It’s his defense that’s the big question mark, but I just see a kid not really strong enough to compete. That can improve.

[macd-gm]

The truth is that Luka is playing great and playing better than Trae. There is no getting around that.

Fair and true.

But the other truth is that if it were not for Luka (and the trade) everyone would be friggin ecstatic about Trae despite his poor shooting. Had we had the number 5 pick from the beginning we'd be still celebrating landing Trae.

Less true. Trae has been hard to watch at times.

I suspect if he were still coming off the bench or just recently been named starter, there'd be more optimism. Being forced to see all his warts as a player so early in his development did him (and the fans) a disservice.

#DontStartRookiesOnBadTeamsUntilTheyreReady

Maybe it's just me but this team is almost unwatchable without Trae on the floor. I haven't found him nearly has hard to watch as anyone else on the team not named John Collins. This fan would be extremely pissed if i bought tickets and didn't see Trae play.

[pssshhhrrr87]

The truth is that Luka is playing great and playing better than Trae. There is no getting around that.

Fair and true.

But the other truth is that if it were not for Luka (and the trade) everyone would be friggin ecstatic about Trae despite his poor shooting. Had we had the number 5 pick from the beginning we'd be still celebrating landing Trae.

Less true. Trae has been hard to watch at times.

I suspect if he were still coming off the bench or just recently been named starter, there'd be more optimism. Being forced to see all his warts as a player so early in his development did him (and the fans) a disservice.

#DontStartRookiesOnBadTeamsUntilTheyreReady

Maybe it's just me but this team is almost unwatchable without Trae on the floor. I haven't found him nearly has hard to watch as anyone else on the team not named John Collins. This fan would be extremely pissed if i bought tickets and didn't see Trae play.

Agreed. Collins and Trae and maybe Huerter are the future. Everyone else is fodder.

[tbhawksfan1]

Why should support for a player shield a GM from bad choices. Our fandom for Trae is normal, he's a Hawk. Schlenk should be the center of discussion.


when I think of Trae's development and potential, I could care less about Doncic

when I think about Schlenk's competency, Doncic is every bit as important as Trae

Schlenk tied himself to Doncic when he decided to trade the more highly regarded prospect. Not Trae's fault.

[Jamaaliver]

How Luka Doncic fell to Mavs in NBA Draft, why it's the perfect marriage and the regret one team is already voicing

One former NBA scout says Doncic will be a 10-12-time All-Star and a Hall of Famer when he retires

At 19 years old, Luka Doncic isn't just playing like the clear leading candidate for Rookie of the Year -- he's playing like an All-Star, if not something more than that. Entering Monday, Doncic is averaging 18.1 points, 6.7 rebounds and 4.6 assists per game. Just seven other players in the league are hitting those marks across the board, and six of them -- LeBron James, Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Russell Westbrook and Victor Oladipo -- were All-NBA players last season.

And to think, three teams passed on Doncic in this past June's draft. Why?

At No. 3, the Hawks traded Doncic's rights to Dallas for Trae Young, who was just named Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month, and the Mavs' 2019 first-round pick -- and it's that extra pick, depending how it turns out, that might end up justifying that trade down the road for an Atlanta organization that's in the long-game business of compiling multiple assets.

Still, it's pretty clear that Doncic is the cream of his class.

"I know a lot of teams were worried about his athleticism," Thomas said. "But he is proving time and time again that his intelligence in knowing how to use angles defensively, and utilize effective fakes offensively, have taken him to another level as an athlete."

In the estimation of one rival general manager I've spoken with, there were also questions about Doncic's 3-point shooting. It's a fair point. While Doncic made a lot of big, viral shots in Europe, in terms of consistency, he was just a 30-percent shooter from three last year -- and that was from the shorter international line. He's dipped a bit of late (36 percent entering Monday), but Doncic has been right around 40 percent from 3-point range for much of his rookie season.

"That is a huge jump," the GM told CBS Sports.

... the Mavericks were pinching themselves when Phoenix and Sacramento passed on Doncic, and when Atlanta was willing to deal, they were happy to pull the trigger.

Don't get it wrong, Doncic would've been great anywhere. But look at Young's situation in Atlanta. He's getting the Steph Curry treatment from defenders because nobody else on the Hawks really scares anyone. Young is a terrific passer, 12th in the league in assists, but he'd be much higher than that if Atlanta wasn't one of the worst shooting teams in the league. Bottom line: Young doesn't have the same kind of personnel alongside him to take full advantage of his creativity.

Alongside him in [Dallas], Doncic has an NBA champion in Harrison Barnes and one of the better rim-roller/lob partners in the league in DeAndre Jordan, with whom he already has great pick-and-roll chemistry.

CBS Sports

[marco102]

How legit is Trae? He has unquestionable skills, but also very evident limitations. If we ran a poll where would you forcast Trae in 3 years; Fringe starter, avg starter, star, supa star?

Have to see how things play out, but that #3 pick last year could end up being the best we get. We really need to pull some TOP talent out of these drafts.

I don't think anyone outside of Ga or Hawk fan is questioning DAl side of the trade. They are happy to have given up this years pick for Doncic. Time will tell, but the time for Schlenk to nail it was last draft

They won't question it because of the hype Machine that is ESPN. Like most of us have said. Luka's past 14 or 15 games, he's not shooting at the same efficiency as he was earlier in the season.

If that continues the rest of the season, were he's still average a solid 14 pts 5 assists and 6 rebounds on 35% shooting and 25% from three. Which are very solid for a rookie, you'll see the hype train cool off.


Just last week, people were comparing Luka to Lebron. That's a bit insane. Give these kids time to find who they are in the league. Doncic will be very good though. I'm hoping Trae will be very good too. I've seen flashes. I want to see more consistency next year. Trae's level as of late has been much better. Not earth shattering numbers, but he's been consistent and hasn't been turning the ball over as much and shooting slightly better.

I always admired how stats can be manipulated by anyone with 5 minutes time. It’s my turn now. Luka had 21.6/7/7, Fg.49%, less than 14 attempts/game in last 3 games. That’s elite and much better than his average. Maybe he’s in positive trend now?

Stats works only with big numbers. Shortening data because you want to prove your right just distorts any real meaning of them. And then you even extrapolated this shortened data for laughable 14/6/5, Fg. 35%, 3pts. 25%. Do you even understand, what his % must be, to come from 43/36 % to your 35/25 %? To help you, much worse than horrendous shooting of Trae.

I never tried to prove I was right. I was saying he wasn't as efficient as he was at the beginning of the season and was giving a larger sample than just 3 games.

I also said he was playing great. I for one, don't care if Luka plays well or not. He's not a Hawk and I don't get why people get all upset over something that's not changing. I just don't understand how ESPN is proclaiming him the next generational talent. He's very good right now. I'd even say exceptional for a rookie, but the hype machine is out for him, because some didn't see that he would be a good player coming into the league. The data showed he had the highest floor of all the rookies coming in, but not necessarily 18 pts a game good.

[Atlanta Hawk Fan]

Why should support for a player shield a GM from bad choices. Our fandom for Trae is normal, he's a Hawk. Schlenk should be the center of discussion.


when I think of Trae's development and potential, I could care less about Doncic

when I think about Schlenk's competency, Doncic is every bit as important as Trae

Schlenk tied himself to Doncic when he decided to trade the more highly regarded prospect. Not Trae's fault.

You and I don't agree on all of these but this is 100% fair. Trae can be a huge success for us and how Doncic does is irrelevant to that evaluation.

Schlenk's success on this trade is directly tied to both to Doncic on one side and Trae and the player we ultimately get from Dallas with the future pick on the other. Trae can be a 4x All-Star and the trade be a disaster for Schlenk if Doncic turns into a much better player and our pick doesn't turn into anything of last value (very realistic for a pick in the 11-17 range). Think of the Bill Russell / Cliff Hagan tradedown we did where we got a very good player but gave up a better one.

Hagan was a big success for us and should have had the cheers and support of all Hawks fans. But the GM deserved a beat down for giving away Russell to acquire him.

[Bob8]

They won't question it because of the hype Machine that is ESPN. Like most of us have said. Luka's past 14 or 15 games, he's not shooting at the same efficiency as he was earlier in the season.

If that continues the rest of the season, were he's still average a solid 14 pts 5 assists and 6 rebounds on 35% shooting and 25% from three. Which are very solid for a rookie, you'll see the hype train cool off.


Just last week, people were comparing Luka to Lebron. That's a bit insane. Give these kids time to find who they are in the league. Doncic will be very good though. I'm hoping Trae will be very good too. I've seen flashes. I want to see more consistency next year. Trae's level as of late has been much better. Not earth shattering numbers, but he's been consistent and hasn't been turning the ball over as much and shooting slightly better.

I always admired how stats can be manipulated by anyone with 5 minutes time. It’s my turn now. Luka had 21.6/7/7, Fg.49%, less than 14 attempts/game in last 3 games. That’s elite and much better than his average. Maybe he’s in positive trend now?

Stats works only with big numbers. Shortening data because you want to prove your right just distorts any real meaning of them. And then you even extrapolated this shortened data for laughable 14/6/5, Fg. 35%, 3pts. 25%. Do you even understand, what his % must be, to come from 43/36 % to your 35/25 %? To help you, much worse than horrendous shooting of Trae.

I never tried to prove I was right. I was saying he wasn't as efficient as he was at the beginning of the season and was giving a larger sample than just 3 games.

I also said he was playing great. I for one, don't care if Luka plays well or not. He's not a Hawk and I don't get why people get all upset over something that's not changing. I just don't understand how ESPN is proclaiming him the next generational talent. He's very good right now. I'd even say exceptional for a rookie, but the hype machine is out for him, because some didn't see that he would be a good player coming into the league. The data showed he had the highest floor of all the rookies coming in, but not necessarily 18 pts a game good.

No, you specifically said that, if he continues like that, he will averaged 14/6/5, FG.35%, 3pts 25%. But truth is that his monthly splits are more or less very stable, except for 3pts shooting in December, which really fell down a lot. But his Fg% is despite that over 40% in December too. Rebounds and assists are going steadily up every month, TO down. He avg. 7.4/5.7 in December. Btw. that assists number is more or less the same as Trae’s in December. I don’t know, what future brings, but your prognosis for sure hasn’t basis in current stats.
I have nothing against, if you make wild prognosis, but please leave stats out.

[marco102]

I always admired how stats can be manipulated by anyone with 5 minutes time. It’s my turn now. Luka had 21.6/7/7, Fg.49%, less than 14 attempts/game in last 3 games. That’s elite and much better than his average. Maybe he’s in positive trend now?

Stats works only with big numbers. Shortening data because you want to prove your right just distorts any real meaning of them. And then you even extrapolated this shortened data for laughable 14/6/5, Fg. 35%, 3pts. 25%. Do you even understand, what his % must be, to come from 43/36 % to your 35/25 %? To help you, much worse than horrendous shooting of Trae.

I never tried to prove I was right. I was saying he wasn't as efficient as he was at the beginning of the season and was giving a larger sample than just 3 games.

I also said he was playing great. I for one, don't care if Luka plays well or not. He's not a Hawk and I don't get why people get all upset over something that's not changing. I just don't understand how ESPN is proclaiming him the next generational talent. He's very good right now. I'd even say exceptional for a rookie, but the hype machine is out for him, because some didn't see that he would be a good player coming into the league. The data showed he had the highest floor of all the rookies coming in, but not necessarily 18 pts a game good.

No, you specifically said that, if he continues like that, he will averaged 14/6/5, FG.35%, 3pts 25%. But truth is that his monthly splits are more or less very stable, except for 3pts shooting in December, which really fell down a lot. But his Fg% is despite that over 40% in December too. Rebounds and assists are going steadily up every month, TO down. He avg. 7.4/5.7 in December. Btw. that assists number is more or less the same as Trae’s in December. I don’t know, what future brings, but your prognosis for sure hasn’t basis in current stats.
I have nothing against, if you make wild prognosis, but please leave stats out.

Nope I said if he continues to average 14pts or whatever it was. I guess you don't know the meaning of a hypothetical. My entire point was, if he continued those averages, the HYPE at ESPN would stop. I never said it would happen. Don't even think it's likely.

My other point, was his efficiency has decreased lately. Which you can't deny either. He is a master at getting to the line though, so his scoring hasn't dropped off as much.

[Bob8]

I never tried to prove I was right. I was saying he wasn't as efficient as he was at the beginning of the season and was giving a larger sample than just 3 games.

I also said he was playing great. I for one, don't care if Luka plays well or not. He's not a Hawk and I don't get why people get all upset over something that's not changing. I just don't understand how ESPN is proclaiming him the next generational talent. He's very good right now. I'd even say exceptional for a rookie, but the hype machine is out for him, because some didn't see that he would be a good player coming into the league. The data showed he had the highest floor of all the rookies coming in, but not necessarily 18 pts a game good.

No, you specifically said that, if he continues like that, he will averaged 14/6/5, FG.35%, 3pts 25%. But truth is that his monthly splits are more or less very stable, except for 3pts shooting in December, which really fell down a lot. But his Fg% is despite that over 40% in December too. Rebounds and assists are going steadily up every month, TO down. He avg. 7.4/5.7 in December. Btw. that assists number is more or less the same as Trae’s in December. I don’t know, what future brings, but your prognosis for sure hasn’t basis in current stats.
I have nothing against, if you make wild prognosis, but please leave stats out.

Nope I said if he continues to average 14pts or whatever it was. I guess you don't know the meaning of a hypothetical. My entire point was, if he continued those averages, the HYPE at ESPN would stop. I never said it would happen. Don't even think it's likely.

My other point, was his efficiency has decreased lately. Which you can't deny either. He is a master at getting to the line though, so his scoring hasn't dropped off as much.

The only truth is his efficiency going down. He was 23/6/12 today, with only 1 T0. Fg% and 3pts% 33. But that won’t stop the hype. Problem for Dallas is that bench is playing bad in last games, that’s good for Atlanta I guess.

[Drygon]

Watch on YouTube

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Watch on YouTube

[Atlanta Hawk Fan]

Watch on YouTube

;t

Watch on YouTube

21 assists against 6 turnovers is pretty darn nice. (Basketball Reference has him for 9 assists and 12 assists in the two games)

lmao at the haters on this thread trying to pretend that they aren't hating. "I said if you take his worst 3 game sample of the year and extrapolate that as a hypothetical baseline to what he will do for the rest of the season that he will suck and that is right!" Come on. Kid will have his ups and downs but he has already shown he is special and all the stupid "he is so slow he won't be able to get his shot off or effectively set people up" junk that posters predicted for him is just bunk. His worst TS% in a month is .540% so far.

No need to hate on Luka to defend Trae. Trae has had some nice moments himself and we'll be enjoying a lot more of them before he is done as a Hawk. He doesn't need people to dump on Luka to make him look good just like Luka doesn't need Bagley to fail to make him look good. They just play and their play makes them look good.

[Jamaaliver]

No need to hate on Luka to defend Trae.

Trae has had some nice moments himself and we'll be enjoying a lot more of them before he is done as a Hawk.

[Jamaaliver]

My assessment is this: if Luka gets his 3-pt shooting up to 38% or more and gets in better shape, he's an elite offensive weapon. Not an elite scorer...but a do-it-all oversized guard with a winning mentality.

^June

Read on Twitter

Man, If I'd known his shooting would translate as easily as it has...i'd have been on his bandwagon even earlier. I still suspect his ceiling is capped a bit.

But, damn, his floor is apparently frequent All Star?

[DRKB21]

My assessment is this: if Luka gets his 3-pt shooting up to 38% or more and gets in better shape, he's an elite offensive weapon. Not an elite scorer...but a do-it-all oversized guard with a winning mentality.

^June

Read on Twitter

Man, If I'd known his shooting would translate as easily as it has...i'd have been on his bandwagon even earlier. I still suspect his ceiling is capped a bit.

But, damn, his floor is apparently frequent All Star?

If anyone actually watched his shooting stroke, how quick it is, and how easily he gets it off, you could have been able to tell that his shot would translate. There is a reason I never once waivered on Luka being the top prospect in the draft.

The top 3 on my list were Luka Doncic, Jaren Jackson Jr, and Trae Young, but there was a gap between Jackson and Young. I had Young in the same tier as Ayton and Carter Jr.

[Sothron]

I wish the Squawk was up so I could point to the posters that told me I was crazy when I said Doncic was a legit superstar, we had him in our hands and our idiot GM traded him for magic beans. A superstar is worth more than a decent point guard and a potential first round pick.

This is a trade we will always regret. That's not bashing Young. That's being honest. Eddie Jones was an All Star player but the Lakers got Kobe for him. Who got the better end of that deal?

[tbhawksfan1]

How Luka Doncic fell to Mavs in NBA Draft, why it's the perfect marriage and the regret one team is already voicing

One former NBA scout says Doncic will be a 10-12-time All-Star and a Hall of Famer when he retires

At 19 years old, Luka Doncic isn't just playing like the clear leading candidate for Rookie of the Year -- he's playing like an All-Star, if not something more than that. Entering Monday, Doncic is averaging 18.1 points, 6.7 rebounds and 4.6 assists per game. Just seven other players in the league are hitting those marks across the board, and six of them -- LeBron James, Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Russell Westbrook and Victor Oladipo -- were All-NBA players last season.

And to think, three teams passed on Doncic in this past June's draft. Why?

At No. 3, the Hawks traded Doncic's rights to Dallas for Trae Young, who was just named Eastern Conference Rookie of the Month, and the Mavs' 2019 first-round pick -- and it's that extra pick, depending how it turns out, that might end up justifying that trade down the road for an Atlanta organization that's in the long-game business of compiling multiple assets.

Still, it's pretty clear that Doncic is the cream of his class.

"I know a lot of teams were worried about his athleticism," Thomas said. "But he is proving time and time again that his intelligence in knowing how to use angles defensively, and utilize effective fakes offensively, have taken him to another level as an athlete."

In the estimation of one rival general manager I've spoken with, there were also questions about Doncic's 3-point shooting. It's a fair point. While Doncic made a lot of big, viral shots in Europe, in terms of consistency, he was just a 30-percent shooter from three last year -- and that was from the shorter international line. He's dipped a bit of late (36 percent entering Monday), but Doncic has been right around 40 percent from 3-point range for much of his rookie season.

"That is a huge jump," the GM told CBS Sports.

... the Mavericks were pinching themselves when Phoenix and Sacramento passed on Doncic, and when Atlanta was willing to deal, they were happy to pull the trigger.

Don't get it wrong, Doncic would've been great anywhere. But look at Young's situation in Atlanta. He's getting the Steph Curry treatment from defenders because nobody else on the Hawks really scares anyone. Young is a terrific passer, 12th in the league in assists, but he'd be much higher than that if Atlanta wasn't one of the worst shooting teams in the league. Bottom line: Young doesn't have the same kind of personnel alongside him to take full advantage of his creativity.

Alongside him in [Dallas], Doncic has an NBA champion in Harrison Barnes and one of the better rim-roller/lob partners in the league in DeAndre Jordan, with whom he already has great pick-and-roll chemistry.

CBS Sports

Most important of all those words in red

[Jamaaliver]

This is a trade we will always regret. That's not bashing Young. That's being honest. Eddie Jones was an All Star player but the Lakers got Kobe for him. Who got the better end of that deal?

The Kobe trade is even worse than that...

Lakers traded past his prime Vlade Divac for Kobe's draft rights.

Passing on Luka was a mistake three teams made. But it can be mitigated, by one of three ways:

• Trae becomes a consistent All Star/All NBA player (Possible thanks to his passing prowess)
• Trae and that Mavs pick each become long time, beloved Hawks starters
• or, we win a title.

If any of those things happen over the next decade, Hawks fans can at least pretend to get over the Slovenian sensation.

(Truth be told, I foresee Luka's career being a lot like Dirk's. Frequent playoff team, only occasionally really contending for a title.
And a lot of postseason disappointments.)

[EazyRoc]

Only 30 games in fellas. Pump your brakes.