OT: Zion Prophesized?!

[Isiahthomass]

Zion reminds me of Pre-Back Injury LJ. He's a beast.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Zion is NOT a tweener. He is a switchable 4. Not a 3/4, 2/3/4, or any other designation anyone wants to say - he's a 4 through and through.

[magnumt]

Yup spot on. Zion for me is much more of a sure thing than Fultz ever was. My only worry with him is long term injury and frame concerns. I think he walks into the league a top 35-50 player immediately.

What's the point at which you think it's okay to trade out of getting Zion, though?

Like, is it worth it to give him up for say, Barrett and Culver or Garland? Or do you think we need one A-Class prospect more than two B-Class prospects?

I think you would have to be very strong stomached to pass on Zion

it would be like if NY got the #1 and Phx got the #2
you might be able to move down to 2 and get Barrett and Phx's pick next year, which would still be a top 10 pick at least

you'd have to consider it as Barrett is not a bad consolation prize at all

THAT'S something I may STRONGLY consider. It's how Philly & Boston built their stash piles by making deals like this.

--Mags

[cgf]

Hypothetically if we get the top pick, would you go for a swap like the Celtics and 76ers did in the Fultz / Tatum draft?
we could get reddish / barret plus future picks and players?

Nah, I’m really high on Little & Hunter, and Morant has made himself into a very intriguing prospect. But Zion is in a class of his own and would be great fit for us next to KP, Knox, Frank the rest of the kids, and Timmy.

His power, quickness, explosiveness & rebounding would fit perfectly next to KP, Knox & Frank’s length on D. And offensively his ballhandling & playmaking would fit alongside those three-bombing trees beautifully because of his gravity going to the hoop & how smart he is about hitting the open man.

[Knicksfan1992]

What's the point at which you think it's okay to trade out of getting Zion, though?

Like, is it worth it to give him up for say, Barrett and Culver or Garland? Or do you think we need one A-Class prospect more than two B-Class prospects?

I think you would have to be very strong stomached to pass on Zion

it would be like if NY got the #1 and Phx got the #2
you might be able to move down to 2 and get Barrett and Phx's pick next year, which would still be a top 10 pick at least

you'd have to consider it as Barrett is not a bad consolation prize at all

THAT'S something I may STRONGLY consider. It's how Philly & Boston built their stash piles by making deals like this.

--Mags

Philly and Boston never had to turn down a prospect like Zion to do it though...

That's an insane gamble to take in my opinion. I'm only taking back established good young talent and a top 3 pick in this draft to part with Zion.

[Knicksfan1992]

Zion is NOT a tweener. He is a switchable 4. Not a 3/4, 2/3/4, or any other designation anyone wants to say - he's a 4 through and through.

Yeah this is where I stand on him too. He can do small stretches at the 3 and 5 but he is most definitely a switchable 4 as a starter.

In a theoretical world where we get KD hes a perfect 4 between those 2.

[NoLayupRule]

I think you would have to be very strong stomached to pass on Zion

it would be like if NY got the #1 and Phx got the #2
you might be able to move down to 2 and get Barrett and Phx's pick next year, which would still be a top 10 pick at least

you'd have to consider it as Barrett is not a bad consolation prize at all

THAT'S something I may STRONGLY consider. It's how Philly & Boston built their stash piles by making deals like this.

--Mags

Philly and Boston never had to turn down a prospect like Zion to do it though...

That's an insane gamble to take in my opinion. I'm only taking back established good and a top 3 pick in this draft to part with Zion.

then would you take Phx's #3 swap for #1 if they added Booker?
I think they would do that too

End up with Reddish or Ja or someone

[D.Brasco]

Zion is NOT a tweener. He is a switchable 4. Not a 3/4, 2/3/4, or any other designation anyone wants to say - he's a 4 through and through.

Measurement wise he's a prototypical tweener if we're looking at height and more importantly wingspan/reach.

However the 2 things going for him are his weight/built and athleticism. The issue with that is if he ever gets injured those 2 things can work against him.

Blake Griffin while still good is not the same player pre-injuries.

[RHODEY]

Zion, Knox, KP. Could that be better than Philly, Boston?

Ofcourse.

[Juco24]

THAT'S something I may STRONGLY consider. It's how Philly & Boston built their stash piles by making deals like this.

--Mags

Philly and Boston never had to turn down a prospect like Zion to do it though...

That's an insane gamble to take in my opinion. I'm only taking back established good and a top 3 pick in this draft to part with Zion.

then would you take Phx's #3 swap for #1 if they added Booker?
I think they would do that too

End up with Reddish or Ja or someone

I wouldn't even think twice. YES!!!

[cuyankees]

Zion is NOT a tweener. He is a switchable 4. Not a 3/4, 2/3/4, or any other designation anyone wants to say - he's a 4 through and through.

It's interesting to hear you say that bc you know you're stuff.

Is he an undersized 4 then? He's 6'7 w sneakers, would think taller 4s would have a field day w him.

[NoLayupRule]

Zion is NOT a tweener. He is a switchable 4. Not a 3/4, 2/3/4, or any other designation anyone wants to say - he's a 4 through and through.

It's interesting to hear you say that bc you know you're stuff.

Is he an undersized 4 then? He's 6'7 w sneakers, would think taller 4s would have a field day w him.

im not sure anyone would have a field day with a guy who has that kind of athleticism, strength, enthusiasm and desire to be a top level defender

KP might have his way, Durant too, but its gonna be hard to simply shoot over him

[Chanel Bomber]

Zion is NOT a tweener. He is a switchable 4. Not a 3/4, 2/3/4, or any other designation anyone wants to say - he's a 4 through and through.

It's interesting to hear you say that bc you know you're stuff.

Is he an undersized 4 then? He's 6'7 w sneakers, would think taller 4s would have a field day w him.

I think Zion would terrorize most 4s in today's league. In the East alone, the starting 4s are Marcus Morris, Thaddeus Young, Greek Freak (he's a problem for everybody), Pascal Siakam, Blake Griffin... Other than Giannis they're all 6'8-6'9. Zion would be slightly undersized but I think he would have the strength and the athleticism to compete with those guys physically if not dominate. *Edit: just noticed that you specified "taller" 4s.

The only worry for me is the lack of shooting. This means he needs to be involved in all the action. If he's great, the lack of shooting is not going to be that big of a deal. If he's not an All-NBA type player with great efficiency, he'll always put a ceiling on the team that he's on because he won't be a threat off the ball. It's a gamble in that regard. I still trust his natural talent, just as I trusted Doncic's.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Zion is NOT a tweener. He is a switchable 4. Not a 3/4, 2/3/4, or any other designation anyone wants to say - he's a 4 through and through.

It's interesting to hear you say that bc you know you're stuff.

Is he an undersized 4 then? He's 6'7 w sneakers, would think taller 4s would have a field day w him.

Aw shucks, don't make me blush.

Yeah, undersized 4. The thing that bothers me most about him is not his height, but his length. IIRC, his wingspan is just average for SFs, let alone PFs. He has insane strength and leaping ability, which will make up for some of it, but that's still a negative in my book. On the flip side, if the Knicks go to a switching scheme (at least partially), it won't be as big an issue. That and there being fewer postup bigs like there were in the 90s/2000s will help him.

His defensive IQ is too high and he plays with too much energy on that end (with insane athleticism) for me to bet against him being anything less than a good defensive player. If he gets down to the 250-255 range (260 probably more realistic), he could be a full switch guy with his strength + quickness. He's already quick on the perimeter that losing the weight will only increase his lateral quickness (and probably vert), while not reducing his post defense because he'd still be damn strong and his strength is every big functional (unlike Ayton's). **Key for him being a full time switch guy will also be staying in his stance. We've seen him stick with quick perimeter players and elite scorers (Culver) simply by being in a stance and moving his feet, but he's not always in one.**

Offensively, he's quicker than most 3s and basically every 4/5. His first step is lightning quick, has that spin move down pat (but, as we saw last night, teams can sit on it forcing TOs/fouls), and is a fantastic offensive rebounder and paint finisher. I tweeted this a few minutes ago, but I expect him to have some semblance of an off the dribble game in the NBA -- maybe before hitting C&S jumpers because he's way more fluid off the dribble (and his elbow flare / lack of squaring up isn't as big an issue here). See below.

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[NBA Fan 1234]

Zion is NOT a tweener. He is a switchable 4. Not a 3/4, 2/3/4, or any other designation anyone wants to say - he's a 4 through and through.

It's interesting to hear you say that bc you know you're stuff.

Is he an undersized 4 then? He's 6'7 w sneakers, would think taller 4s would have a field day w him.

I think Zion would terrorize most 4s in today's league. In the East alone, the starting 4s are Marcus Morris, Thaddeus Young, Greek Freak (he's a problem for everybody), Pascal Siakam, Blake Griffin... Other than Giannis they're all 6'8-6'9. Zion would be slightly undersized but I think he would have the strength and the athleticism to compete with those guys physically if not dominate. *Edit: just noticed that you specified "taller" 4s.

The only worry for me is the lack of shooting. This means he needs to be involved in all the action. If he's great, the lack of shooting is not going to be that big of a deal. If he's not an All-NBA type player with great efficiency, he'll always put a ceiling on the team that he's on because he won't be a threat off the ball. It's a gamble in that regard. I still trust his natural talent, just as I trusted Doncic's.

He's an elite off ball cutter and can crash the glass like few people. Obviously the jumper will be key in him reaching an even higher level than he'd have without one, but I'm not worried about him not being a factor off ball.

[Chanel Bomber]

It's interesting to hear you say that bc you know you're stuff.

Is he an undersized 4 then? He's 6'7 w sneakers, would think taller 4s would have a field day w him.

I think Zion would terrorize most 4s in today's league. In the East alone, the starting 4s are Marcus Morris, Thaddeus Young, Greek Freak (he's a problem for everybody), Pascal Siakam, Blake Griffin... Other than Giannis they're all 6'8-6'9. Zion would be slightly undersized but I think he would have the strength and the athleticism to compete with those guys physically if not dominate. *Edit: just noticed that you specified "taller" 4s.

The only worry for me is the lack of shooting. This means he needs to be involved in all the action. If he's great, the lack of shooting is not going to be that big of a deal. If he's not an All-NBA type player with great efficiency, he'll always put a ceiling on the team that he's on because he won't be a threat off the ball. It's a gamble in that regard. I still trust his natural talent, just as I trusted Doncic's.

He's an elite off ball cutter and can crash the glass like few people. Obviously the jumper will be key in him reaching an even higher level than he'd have without one, but I'm not worried about him not being a factor off ball.

You're right, but it's getting harder and harder to be efficient playing off the ball by only cutting to the basket (see Tony Allen). There's still value in that tough. But you better be a floor spacer if you're playing off the ball. NBA teams are not crashing the glass as much as they used to either so I'm not sure Zion is going to be a difference-maker by grabbing offensive rebounds. We shall see.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I think Zion would terrorize most 4s in today's league. In the East alone, the starting 4s are Marcus Morris, Thaddeus Young, Greek Freak (he's a problem for everybody), Pascal Siakam, Blake Griffin... Other than Giannis they're all 6'8-6'9. Zion would be slightly undersized but I think he would have the strength and the athleticism to compete with those guys physically if not dominate. *Edit: just noticed that you specified "taller" 4s.

The only worry for me is the lack of shooting. This means he needs to be involved in all the action. If he's great, the lack of shooting is not going to be that big of a deal. If he's not an All-NBA type player with great efficiency, he'll always put a ceiling on the team that he's on because he won't be a threat off the ball. It's a gamble in that regard. I still trust his natural talent, just as I trusted Doncic's.

He's an elite off ball cutter and can crash the glass like few people. Obviously the jumper will be key in him reaching an even higher level than he'd have without one, but I'm not worried about him not being a factor off ball.

You're right, but it's getting harder and harder to be efficient playing off the ball by only cutting to the basket (see Tony Allen). There's still value in that tough. But you better be a floor spacer if you're playing off the ball. NBA teams are not crashing the glass as much as they used to either so I'm not sure Zion is going to be a difference-maker by grabbing offensive rebounds. We shall see.

Two different positions, though. You can space the floor by cutting, in a different way.

[RHODEY]

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[NBA Fan 1234]

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[RHODEY]

What's the point at which you think it's okay to trade out of getting Zion, though?

Like, is it worth it to give him up for say, Barrett and Culver or Garland? Or do you think we need one A-Class prospect more than two B-Class prospects?

I always think having the A class talent is better than having the B class talent. I would maybe make an exception for Barret or Cam because if were going by letter grades I would put those guys at like B plus level...if we were getting another higher level young proven nba level player with them then maybe I would consider jt

So like for example let's say the Wiz start to really falter and they desperately want Zion to start fresh and get a legit top 5 player potential guy. If they end up with 2 or 3 while we get 1 then I would heavily consider taking Beal and Barret or Reddish for Zion. Something along those lines...

Theres not a lot of viable examples of that naturally because tanking teams are generally devoid of legit proven NBA talent so it's hard to come up with a realistic construct like that.

That's a fair viewpoint

It's kinda hard to judge what a trade might look like cause there are so many variables still in play, like we have no idea who's gonna be picking top 5, if there's gonna be a team with a top 5 and top 10 pick, or if anyone else distinguishes themselves as the year goes on

I think it's not totally blasphemous to say trading back might be a good idea, even if it means losing Zion. To me, he's like I said, and A-class prospect, I've comped him to Larry Johnson, maybe Barkley at his absolute peak if everything goes right, but more realistically he's a Larry Johnson type. That's not an insult, he's clearly the best prospect at this moment and worthy of a #1 pick (unlike say, 2013 when there really wasn't anyone worthy of a #1 pick at the time), but he's not good enough for me to say there's no package that I'd trade him for

I think barkley is his floor, the kid is bigger, possibly stronger, and way more athletic , not to mention a better passer than Barkley.