What if Zion Williamson...

[kg01]

Also, I get that this kid is a physical talent but his 'game' is still pretty rudimentary. I'm not saying he can't improve skill-wise or that I'm against drafting him. I'm saying whoever drafts him will have to understand that they'll have a lot of development to do.

He can certainly make a living (i.e. get paid) off of put-backs, duck-ins and effort plays at the next level. However, an NBA team can't win on a steady diet of that "offense" from their main guy. That's like asking a poor man's Julius Randle to lead your team. yeesh

YES!!!

I'm trying to get on board with this kid as consensus #1.

But i just don't see a great basketball player.

I see a good player who's a great athlete -- while simultaneously being undersized and overweight.

He'll be a productive NBA player. But I can't see him carrying an offense, shutting down opposing bigs or wings.

Or he's young Blake Griffin.

I haven't seen enough of him to really say whether he'll be great or a bust but his physical gifts are pretty damn impressive. I mean what were Lebron's basketball skills coming into the NBA?

But that's the thing. Lebron's skills were superior in high school. Sure he needed development and he needed to improve his shooting. However, he was essentially a guard skill-wise.

Long story short, he didn't need the ground-up development that Williamson will need. And folks didn't need 40+ games to see that. CLE plugged James into the lineup and he was instantly able to contribute. Zion may need 2+ years to just not look like a fouling out-of-water fish.

[kg01]

Also, I get that this kid is a physical talent but his 'game' is still pretty rudimentary. I'm not saying he can't improve skill-wise or that I'm against drafting him. I'm saying whoever drafts him will have to understand that they'll have a lot of development to do.

He can certainly make a living (i.e. get paid) off of put-backs, duck-ins and effort plays at the next level. However, an NBA team can't win on a steady diet of that "offense" from their main guy. That's like asking a poor man's Julius Randle to lead your team. yeesh

YES!!!

I'm trying to get on board with this kid as consensus #1.

But i just don't see a great basketball player.

I see a good player who's a great athlete -- while simultaneously being undersized and overweight.

He'll be a productive NBA player. But I can't see him carrying an offense, shutting down opposing bigs or wings.

Or he's young Blake Griffin.

First, we've been agreeing too much lately. It's not natural.

Second, on Zion. It took a couple years, including an injury season, but Blake developed his skills beyond simply been an athletic behemoth. Perhaps Williamson can do the same. But whoever picks him needs to understand they've got work to do. That's all.

And I hope folks understand he's not being developed by Duke.

[Jamaaliver]

I haven't seen enough of him to really say whether he'll be great or a bust but his physical gifts are pretty damn impressive. I mean what were Lebron's basketball skills coming into the NBA?

FTR, no one is predicting bust for Zion.

At least I'm not.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Second, on Zion...whoever picks him needs to understand they've got work to do. That's all.

And I hope folks understand he's not being developed by Duke.

Agreed. I find myself rooting against Coach K and that 1-and-done factory he's created there. I now see just what Wendell's mom was talking about last year as Cam Reddish was the first big name to commit, but has been largely overshadowed by guys who aren't being properly coached IMO.


I love what I'm seeing from Roy Williams at UNC and his development of Coby and Nassir, though.

[macd-gm]

I was under the impression that his shooting stroke was pretty good but maybe that's not the case.

[EazyRoc]

Elite athlete with above average skills. Dude checks all boxes for Star. He is a PF. His shot is flat and broken. You play him at PF. He’s the kind of player you can build a team around.

[marco102]

Lebron had way more skills than Zion. He just wasn't a dunk Machine. Lebron was a decent shooter in the midrange, but no three point shot.

I'm not sure I've seen Zion take a midrange shot. I'm still on the Bol Bol and Cam Reddish bandwagon. People are concerned about Cam' shooting, but his defense was pretty darn good in last night's game and he came up with some key plays down the stretch.

[Spud2nique]

Also, I get that this kid is a physical talent but his 'game' is still pretty rudimentary. I'm not saying he can't improve skill-wise or that I'm against drafting him. I'm saying whoever drafts him will have to understand that they'll have a lot of development to do.

He can certainly make a living (i.e. get paid) off of put-backs, duck-ins and effort plays at the next level. However, an NBA team can't win on a steady diet of that "offense" from their main guy. That's like asking a poor man's Julius Randle to lead your team. yeesh

YES!!!

I'm trying to get on board with this kid as consensus #1.

But i just don't see a great basketball player.

I see a good player who's a great athlete -- while simultaneously being undersized and overweight.

He'll be a productive NBA player. But I can't see him carrying an offense, shutting down opposing bigs or wings.




Or he's young Blake Griffin.

I haven't seen enough of him to really say whether he'll be great or a bust but his physical gifts are pretty damn impressive. I mean what were Lebron's basketball skills coming into the NBA?

Generational talent. LJ met Lebron met Derrick Coleman. THAT GOOD!

[EazyRoc]

YES!!!

I'm trying to get on board with this kid as consensus #1.

But i just don't see a great basketball player.

I see a good player who's a great athlete -- while simultaneously being undersized and overweight.

He'll be a productive NBA player. But I can't see him carrying an offense, shutting down opposing bigs or wings.

Or he's young Blake Griffin.

I haven't seen enough of him to really say whether he'll be great or a bust but his physical gifts are pretty damn impressive. I mean what were Lebron's basketball skills coming into the NBA?

But that's the thing. Lebron's skills were superior in high school. Sure he needed development and he needed to improve his shooting. However, he was essentially a guard skill-wise.

Long story short, he didn't need the ground-up development that Williamson will need. And folks didn't need 40+ games to see that. CLE plugged James into the lineup and he was instantly able to contribute. Zion may need 2+ years to just not look like a fouling out-of-water fish.

Zion is much more skilled than you give him credit for and is very likely a Day 1 starter. Unlike Bagley, Zion actually has developed handles and can attack the lane from the perimeter. You get him the ball in motion and he’s going to create havoc on defenses. That will be a game changer in the NBA. He’s also a solid defender and very good help defender. Barring injury, he’s about the closest thing to a bonafide generational talent since KD or LeBron. He is right now a better defender than either at the same points in their career. He’s got better vision and is a better passer (still has to work on placement) than KD @ Texas. He’s more than just highlight plays. He’s a really good basketball player for a 19 year old. He just can’t shoot.

[kg01]

I haven't seen enough of him to really say whether he'll be great or a bust but his physical gifts are pretty damn impressive. I mean what were Lebron's basketball skills coming into the NBA?

But that's the thing. Lebron's skills were superior in high school. Sure he needed development and he needed to improve his shooting. However, he was essentially a guard skill-wise.

Long story short, he didn't need the ground-up development that Williamson will need. And folks didn't need 40+ games to see that. CLE plugged James into the lineup and he was instantly able to contribute. Zion may need 2+ years to just not look like a fouling out-of-water fish.

Zion is much more skilled than you give him credit for and is very likely a Day 1 starter. Unlike Bagley, Zion actually has developed handles and can attack the lane from the perimeter. You get him the ball in motion and he’s going to create havoc on defenses. That will be a game changer in the NBA. He’s also a solid defender and very good help defender. Barring injury, he’s about the closest thing to a bonafide generational talent since KD or LeBron. He is right now a better defender than either at the same points in their career. He’s got better vision and is a better passer (still has to work on placement) than KD @ Texas. He’s more than just highlight plays. He’s a really good basketball player for a 19 year old. He just can’t shoot.

We simply disagree here. Zion is good for a dribble or two then is a player-control foul waiting to happen.

He'll start from day 1 simply due to draft position and he is indeed a bad defender. Weakside blocks do not equate to being a good defender.

And the fact that his effectiveness is tied heavily to getting him the ball in motion is my main issue.

We need someone capable of creating his own offense.

I feel I need to reiterate that I'm not saying the kid isn't good. I'm saying there's a lot of work to be done with him.

[EazyRoc]

But that's the thing. Lebron's skills were superior in high school. Sure he needed development and he needed to improve his shooting. However, he was essentially a guard skill-wise.

Long story short, he didn't need the ground-up development that Williamson will need. And folks didn't need 40+ games to see that. CLE plugged James into the lineup and he was instantly able to contribute. Zion may need 2+ years to just not look like a fouling out-of-water fish.

Zion is much more skilled than you give him credit for and is very likely a Day 1 starter. Unlike Bagley, Zion actually has developed handles and can attack the lane from the perimeter. You get him the ball in motion and he’s going to create havoc on defenses. That will be a game changer in the NBA. He’s also a solid defender and very good help defender. Barring injury, he’s about the closest thing to a bonafide generational talent since KD or LeBron. He is right now a better defender than either at the same points in their career. He’s got better vision and is a better passer (still has to work on placement) than KD @ Texas. He’s more than just highlight plays. He’s a really good basketball player for a 19 year old. He just can’t shoot.

We simply disagree here. Zion is good for a dribble or two then is a player-control foul waiting to happen.

He'll start from day 1 simply due to draft position and he is indeed a bad defender. Weakside blocks do not equate to being a good defender.

And the fact that his effectiveness is tied heavily to getting him the ball in motion is my main issue.

We need someone capable of creating his own offense.

I feel I need to reiterate that I'm not saying the kid isn't good. I'm saying there's a lot of work to be done with him.

I guess what I really should say is that the idea that he’s a bad defender, can’t create his own shot, and is some sort of foul machine can’t be based on his college game tape. It just doesn’t jive unless you really don’t like the kid. I’m guessing you just really don’t like him ?

[Spud2nique]

Also, I get that this kid is a physical talent but his 'game' is still pretty rudimentary. I'm not saying he can't improve skill-wise or that I'm against drafting him. I'm saying whoever drafts him will have to understand that they'll have a lot of development to do.

He can certainly make a living (i.e. get paid) off of put-backs, duck-ins and effort plays at the next level. However, an NBA team can't win on a steady diet of that "offense" from their main guy. That's like asking a poor man's Julius Randle to lead your team. yeesh

YES!!!

I'm trying to get on board with this kid as consensus #1.

But i just don't see a great basketball player.

I see a good player who's a great athlete -- while simultaneously being undersized and overweight.

He'll be a productive NBA player. But I can't see him carrying an offense, shutting down opposing bigs or wings.

Or he's young Blake Griffin.

First, we've been agreeing too much lately. It's not natural.

Second, on Zion. It took a couple years, including an injury season, but Blake developed his skills beyond simply been an athletic behemoth. Perhaps Williamson can do the same. But whoever picks him needs to understand they've got work to do. That's all.

And I hope folks understand he's not being developed by Duke.

I just figured y’all on ur honeymoon still.

[atlantabbq99]

Zion reminds me of UNLV Larry Johnson. I don't know if he can become prime Charles Barkley, but what scares me about Zion is what when his athleticism goes away he will turn into Knicks Larry Johnson, Knicks Amare, or Hawks Dwight Howard.

[Ball4life32]

But that's the thing. Lebron's skills were superior in high school. Sure he needed development and he needed to improve his shooting. However, he was essentially a guard skill-wise.

Long story short, he didn't need the ground-up development that Williamson will need. And folks didn't need 40+ games to see that. CLE plugged James into the lineup and he was instantly able to contribute. Zion may need 2+ years to just not look like a fouling out-of-water fish.

Zion is much more skilled than you give him credit for and is very likely a Day 1 starter. Unlike Bagley, Zion actually has developed handles and can attack the lane from the perimeter. You get him the ball in motion and he’s going to create havoc on defenses. That will be a game changer in the NBA. He’s also a solid defender and very good help defender. Barring injury, he’s about the closest thing to a bonafide generational talent since KD or LeBron. He is right now a better defender than either at the same points in their career. He’s got better vision and is a better passer (still has to work on placement) than KD @ Texas. He’s more than just highlight plays. He’s a really good basketball player for a 19 year old. He just can’t shoot.

We simply disagree here. Zion is good for a dribble or two then is a player-control foul waiting to happen.

He'll start from day 1 simply due to draft position and he is indeed a bad defender. Weakside blocks do not equate to being a good defender.

And the fact that his effectiveness is tied heavily to getting him the ball in motion is my main issue.

We need someone capable of creating his own offense.

I feel I need to reiterate that I'm not saying the kid isn't good. I'm saying there's a lot of work to be done with him.

What? Right now Zion has a 9.2 DBPM. Not only does he average 1.9 BPG but 2.1 SPG....a defensive rating of 76.5 and an incredible defensive win share. Those are elite numbers. He is nowhere near a bad defender...he is going to be an elite NBA defender.

Also he has a great handle and combine his strength, athleticism, body control he can be a great scorer at the next level. Much like Collins he finds ways to score except he's more developed than Collins at the same stage. If he becomes just a mediocre shooter he will be scary good offensively.

[Ball4life32]

Lebron had way more skills than Zion. He just wasn't a dunk Machine. Lebron was a decent shooter in the midrange, but no three point shot.

I'm not sure I've seen Zion take a midrange shot. I'm still on the Bol Bol and Cam Reddish bandwagon. People are concerned about Cam' shooting, but his defense was pretty darn good in last night's game and he came up with some key plays down the stretch.

Cam's shooting doesn't scare me. It's how he can score other than 3 point shooting. He's shooting 39% from 2...there is no way someone with his talent should struggle scoring in the paint. I loved him before the season and thought he could be a star at the next level but him struggling to score at the rim scares me.

[kg01]

Funny. A byproduct of the tanking stuff is the analysis of guys lasts way longer than it should.

I keep saying i don't dislike the Zion kid but anything short of blind allegiance is taken as 'hate' these days.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is further development needed. I'm dropping the mic on that. Y'all can chop and thin-slice somebody else's words on the subject.

[Spud2nique]

Funny. A byproduct of the tanking stuff is the analysis of guys lasts way longer than it should.

I keep saying i don't dislike the Zion kid but anything short of blind allegiance is taken as 'hate' these days.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is further development needed. I'm dropping the mic on that. Y'all can chop and thin-slice somebody else's words on the subject.

I understand and agree with what you’re saying. My only question is, with what college player right now would you not need further development?

[EazyRoc]

Funny. A byproduct of the tanking stuff is the analysis of guys lasts way longer than it should.

I keep saying i don't dislike the Zion kid but anything short of blind allegiance is taken as 'hate' these days.

The point I'm trying to make is that there is further development needed. I'm dropping the mic on that. Y'all can chop and thin-slice somebody else's words on the subject.

I was going to walk away. I really was. But this post just had TOO much bull sprinkled in. You said what you said don’t back track now XD. You’ve been saying the same thing for 6 months now. The reason you’re getting the side eye as a hater has already been laid out. Don’t try to play like a victim. You have a right to your opinion, but damnit you were just making ish up. Zion has played in 11 NCAA games. Just go watch a few. You don’t have to make stuff up just because you feel he needs more development lol.

[King Ken]

This place has worse takes than the Squawk. No way can anyone say with a straight face that Zion is not the best prospect and that he is just a great athlete who is just a good player. Are you nuts? He is putting up some of the best numbers we have ever seen from a freshman ever.

[~Wretch~]

Zion is much more skilled than you give him credit for and is very likely a Day 1 starter. Unlike Bagley, Zion actually has developed handles and can attack the lane from the perimeter. You get him the ball in motion and he’s going to create havoc on defenses. That will be a game changer in the NBA. He’s also a solid defender and very good help defender. Barring injury, he’s about the closest thing to a bonafide generational talent since KD or LeBron. He is right now a better defender than either at the same points in their career. He’s got better vision and is a better passer (still has to work on placement) than KD @ Texas. He’s more than just highlight plays. He’s a really good basketball player for a 19 year old. He just can’t shoot.

Agreed. This is what I saw in his first few games. I think Zion suffers from the same kind of stigma that Nique suffered from. Outside of Hawks fans, most people associate him with his highlight dunks and they don't give him enough credit as an elite scorer. In Zion's case, the dunks and the energy are what's catching peoples' attention and getting the casual audience excited. If you don't like the kid and/or you're not really watching him...then you're not going to see who he really is.

Same thing with Doncic... Honestly, people saw a Euro and wrote him off. Without really watching him, they simply rode with the surface level evaluation and the generic Euro-stereotype. People that can't see what he does defensively, his court vision, his size/speed, and his off the dribble game are doing the same thing they did to Doncic.

Zion has flaws, most visibly his shooting, but the combination of what he DOES have is what makes him interesting. He's not nearly as skilled as LBJ was coming into the league, but he's got far more going for him than Dwight Howard did.

On a final note, I can't argue that RJ isn't a better fit. However, the potential of a Trae/Zion combo has me excited enough to pick Zion #1 overall.

[atlantabbq99]

I'm actually very high on Zion's handles. His dribbling and penetrating seems pretty good. His dribbling seems to be on par with Barkley.