The Sports ExchangeHawks aim to join rest of league in dominating Knicks
The New York Knicks have been rode roughshod upon this year by 28 other teams in the NBA. Against only one other team have they found themselves handing out similar beatdowns.That team -- the Atlanta Hawks -- heads to Madison Square Garden on Friday trying to end the Knicks' domination of them.
New York has won each of the first two matchups, including a season-opening 126-107 tilt back on Oct. 17 and a 112-107 win at Atlanta on Nov. 7.
The Hawks, meanwhile, are flying high after upending the Washington Wizards, 118-110, on Tuesday night for just their seventh win of the season. Atlanta had one of its most complete offensive performances of the season, with seven players scoring in double-figures, led by John Collins' 20 points.
"I thought our guys did a great job coming out and having the right approach and the right mentality," Hawks head coach Lloyd Pierce said.
Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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lethalweapon3
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
Pick your poisons!
Somebody check my math, but there are up to 14 seats available at next May’s NBA Draft Lottery. Rest assured, Jami Gertz will capably fill one, on behalf of our plucky Atlanta Hawks. Teams from the Western Conference have a reservation for seven, and one of their seats might be kept warm for us, too.
Back East, it’s safe to assume Toronto, Milwaukee, Philly, and Indiana won’t be joining the party. As far as I’m concerned, Boston can “have several seats” anytime. But their own chair won’t be among them, once their bigs get healthy. Further, if all goes well, the Celts might not wind up with any.
That would leave… okay, 30, minus 1, minus 7, divided by 2, minus 5, uhh, carry the 3… six slots left for nine Eastern Conference clubs. Which team’s reps would you prefer seated alongside Jami? As Hawks fans, we’ve got three bottles of poison from which to choose.
Out of the Rust Belt, there is the toxic trio of Cleveland, Chicago and Detroit. There’s the Southeastern strychnine, including all four of our compadres in the Dirty South Division running in mud at full sprint. Then, there’s the venomous cider titrated from the Evil Queen’s Big Apple, a joint product of the Brooklyn Nets and the Hawks’ hosts this evening, the New York Knickerbockers (7:30 PM Eastern, Fox Sports Southeast and 92.9 FM in ATL, MSG Network in NYC).
I still don’t know what druthers are. But if I personally had them, I would gift-wrap all three of the remaining playoff spots to Atlanta’s division opponents, and I sure wish there were four. Seeing (more) 19-year-old prospective Hall of Famers striking it out under the bright lights of big cities, like here in NYC or in Chicago, can be mildly annoying. But I’d rather not risk having the Hawks wrangle with Dookie Diaper Dandies in divisional matchups four times every regular season.
If our Hawks are going to double, triple, or (Dare I say it? Sure!) quadruple their final win tallies, I’d prefer they go full-bore against these here Knicks, the Nets and the Midwesterners. Then, let go of the rope anytime the Wizards, heat, Magic and Hornets start tugging. Hey, division foes, you “win!”. And by that, I mean you “win” the chance to get pants-ed in the first round of the playoffs!
My obvious fallacy here is the assumption that the Hawks (7-23) have the skill, the will, and the ability to pick-and-choose their victorious battles. But I do hope Atlanta can keep that same proverbial energy they displayed on Tuesday, against the whiny Wizards, and apply it to their next two road contests, as they follow up this visit to Madison Square Garden with a Sunday tilt in Motown.
Long-suffering Knicks fans are already looking forward to next year, and by that I don’t mean next month. The long-injured Kristaps Porzingis (ACL surgery) may be ready to return around the All-Star break. But by then, putting him in bubble wrap for next season’s campaign may be the wise move for New York (9-24).
Knick fans have several players they are already looking past, including our old pal Tim Hardaway, Jr., the team’s leading scorer (21.2 PPG, career-high 4.7 made FTs/game) in Porzingis’ absence. He’s under contract making $17-18 million through next season, but most fans are hopeful GM Scott Perry can find a trading partner for Timmy’s services before the trade deadline arrives. Until something better comes along, Hardaway (team-high 27.3 usage%; 39.6 FG%) is a handsomely paid complementary piece handed the spotlight due to circumstance, the only Knick granted over 30 minutes per night.
The same sentiment prevails for veteran wing Courtney Lee, finally being utilized by coach David Fizdale after a mysterious neck problem, and long-timer Lance Thomas. For good measure, throw in Enes Kanter, the big whose biggest attribute may be his Instagram fingers, and Mario Hezonja, whose best attribute, like Kanter, may be his expiring contract.
Hezonja is still young, among nine Knicks on the roster age 25 or over. That list doesn’t include Ron Baker, who was waived to secure the services of undrafted fan-favorite rookie Allonzo Trier (out today, hamstring strain). But Hezonja is among a slew of highly-drafted yet disappointing talents who washed ashore on the Hudson in hopes of second chances -- Emmanuel Mudiay, Trey Burke, Noah Vonleh – and the fan consensus is that it’s time for them to start seeking out a third.
Vonleh (8.2 RPG, team-best 39.4 3FG%) remains the default starter at power forward. But his small-scale contract, and Burke’s, are only partially guaranteed until January 10. Expect both to play the Hawks and in the ensuing games like they’re performing on the Apollo stage, with the Sandman tying up his tap-dancing shoes.
There’s a core that fans foresee at the center of the Big Apple, and the aforementioned players, save for a healthy Unicorn, are not a part of it. They want less of Kanter and more of rookie second-rounder Mitchell Robinson, although they won’t get their wishes granted tonight as the latter is saddled with an ankle sprain.
Similar to the way Atlanta entrusts Trae Young while the playmaker takes his lumps (NBA-lowest minus-4.6 Defensive Real Plus/Minus), New Yorkers want lotto-rookie prize forward Kevin Knox (36.2 3FG%; 19.7 PPG, 43 3FG% in last six games) to get more shine, even if it means enduring a little more tarnish (38.3 2FG%; lowest Defensive RPM among non-PGs).
Less Mudiay, more Frank Ntilikina, the 2017 lottery pick who is among the only Knicks (league-worst 117.2 D-Rating this month) capable of sinking some teeth into opponents as an on-ball defender. Less of Junior, more of Trier and Damyean Dotson, a pair of promising wings who may get in each other’s way when both are healthy. Fizdale has his own designs, but as the losing mounts, he would do well to capitulate to the whims of the restless MSG crowd. The Knicks, tonight, are trying to avoid losing their ninth game in the past ten tries.
Conceivably, New York looks like a team that is easy to pick apart on pick-and-roll plays. Broad-shouldered Mudiay and Hardaway get swallowed up by big-man screens, while Kanter often finds himself on skates. Just ask Phoenix’s Devin Booker.
“Pick n Roll at 00 every time,” the surging Suns’ star mockingly stated in a petty payback Instagram post, after Monday’s 128-110 plundering of the Knicks at the Garden. New York went on to get roasted-and-toasted by Joel Embiid and company in a 131-109 loss in Philly, the Sixers racking up 52 paint points with ease while also sinking half their attempted threes.
Indeed, the Knicks are the third-worst in the league (1.38 points allowed per possession) when the Roll Man goes to the hoop, good news tonight for beneficiaries like Dewayne Dedmon (6-for-8 FGs on 10 Roll Man possessions; 13-for-18 FGs overall and 11.0 RPG last two games) and John Collins. The latter missed both the Hawks’ earlier-season losses at the hands of the Knicks, and Atlanta’s frontcourt ought to feast offensively with the Knicks (51.5 opponent paint points-per-48, 2nd-worst in NBA) relying on just Kanter and Luke Kornet to man the middle.
But New York, like the Hawks, get handsy when the ball handler traverses inside off the picks. And it’s been successful for both clubs, each top-five defenses in terms of PPP allowed (Atlanta’s 0.80 just behind the Knicks’ 0.77). With opponents contained by Vonleh and Ntilikina, the Knicks converge to force strips and deflections without fouling, while Junior has found a way to make standing flat-footed work for him (0.42 drawn charges/game, 4th-most in NBA).
That makes for quite a challenge tonight for Atlanta’s Trae Young (40.6 FG% on Ball Handler plays; turnovers on 20.9% of Ball Handler possessions) and former Knicks star Jeremy Lin to navigate smartly and set up quick dishes to the bigs, plus the wings waiting patiently outside the arc, notably Kevin Huerter (41.6 catch-and-shoot 3FG%) and Vince Carter (40.0 catch-and-shoot 3FG%). The Knicks have the energy to keep up, and Kanter to clean up inside, but their offensive attack can get stilted and quite disorganized, allowing a less turnover-prone Hawks team to build up an advantage.
Dignitaries from both clubs were on hand last night in this same arena, only in the stands rather than on the floor. They were watching several highly touted teens under Coach K’s tutelage, players who, if their GMs strike it rich next May, could be suiting up alongside them, competing with them for playing time or, sooner rather than later, serving as their effective replacements. All eyes are on you, too, Jarrett Culver. For both the Hawks and the Knicks, the players were doing as much advance scouting as the executives.
James Dolan is no Elias, but will he bring his acoustic guitar to the ping-pong proceedings next May? And, should he think about trying any funny business in hopes of wooing our former Hollywood starlet, might MJ be around to whack him upside the head? It will depend on which potions the Hawks choose to swill going forward.
Let’s Go Hawks!
~lw3
Somebody check my math, but there are up to 14 seats available at next May’s NBA Draft Lottery. Rest assured, Jami Gertz will capably fill one, on behalf of our plucky Atlanta Hawks. Teams from the Western Conference have a reservation for seven, and one of their seats might be kept warm for us, too.
Back East, it’s safe to assume Toronto, Milwaukee, Philly, and Indiana won’t be joining the party. As far as I’m concerned, Boston can “have several seats” anytime. But their own chair won’t be among them, once their bigs get healthy. Further, if all goes well, the Celts might not wind up with any.
That would leave… okay, 30, minus 1, minus 7, divided by 2, minus 5, uhh, carry the 3… six slots left for nine Eastern Conference clubs. Which team’s reps would you prefer seated alongside Jami? As Hawks fans, we’ve got three bottles of poison from which to choose.
Out of the Rust Belt, there is the toxic trio of Cleveland, Chicago and Detroit. There’s the Southeastern strychnine, including all four of our compadres in the Dirty South Division running in mud at full sprint. Then, there’s the venomous cider titrated from the Evil Queen’s Big Apple, a joint product of the Brooklyn Nets and the Hawks’ hosts this evening, the New York Knickerbockers (7:30 PM Eastern, Fox Sports Southeast and 92.9 FM in ATL, MSG Network in NYC).
I still don’t know what druthers are. But if I personally had them, I would gift-wrap all three of the remaining playoff spots to Atlanta’s division opponents, and I sure wish there were four. Seeing (more) 19-year-old prospective Hall of Famers striking it out under the bright lights of big cities, like here in NYC or in Chicago, can be mildly annoying. But I’d rather not risk having the Hawks wrangle with Dookie Diaper Dandies in divisional matchups four times every regular season.
If our Hawks are going to double, triple, or (Dare I say it? Sure!) quadruple their final win tallies, I’d prefer they go full-bore against these here Knicks, the Nets and the Midwesterners. Then, let go of the rope anytime the Wizards, heat, Magic and Hornets start tugging. Hey, division foes, you “win!”. And by that, I mean you “win” the chance to get pants-ed in the first round of the playoffs!
My obvious fallacy here is the assumption that the Hawks (7-23) have the skill, the will, and the ability to pick-and-choose their victorious battles. But I do hope Atlanta can keep that same proverbial energy they displayed on Tuesday, against the whiny Wizards, and apply it to their next two road contests, as they follow up this visit to Madison Square Garden with a Sunday tilt in Motown.
Long-suffering Knicks fans are already looking forward to next year, and by that I don’t mean next month. The long-injured Kristaps Porzingis (ACL surgery) may be ready to return around the All-Star break. But by then, putting him in bubble wrap for next season’s campaign may be the wise move for New York (9-24).
Knick fans have several players they are already looking past, including our old pal Tim Hardaway, Jr., the team’s leading scorer (21.2 PPG, career-high 4.7 made FTs/game) in Porzingis’ absence. He’s under contract making $17-18 million through next season, but most fans are hopeful GM Scott Perry can find a trading partner for Timmy’s services before the trade deadline arrives. Until something better comes along, Hardaway (team-high 27.3 usage%; 39.6 FG%) is a handsomely paid complementary piece handed the spotlight due to circumstance, the only Knick granted over 30 minutes per night.
The same sentiment prevails for veteran wing Courtney Lee, finally being utilized by coach David Fizdale after a mysterious neck problem, and long-timer Lance Thomas. For good measure, throw in Enes Kanter, the big whose biggest attribute may be his Instagram fingers, and Mario Hezonja, whose best attribute, like Kanter, may be his expiring contract.
Hezonja is still young, among nine Knicks on the roster age 25 or over. That list doesn’t include Ron Baker, who was waived to secure the services of undrafted fan-favorite rookie Allonzo Trier (out today, hamstring strain). But Hezonja is among a slew of highly-drafted yet disappointing talents who washed ashore on the Hudson in hopes of second chances -- Emmanuel Mudiay, Trey Burke, Noah Vonleh – and the fan consensus is that it’s time for them to start seeking out a third.
Vonleh (8.2 RPG, team-best 39.4 3FG%) remains the default starter at power forward. But his small-scale contract, and Burke’s, are only partially guaranteed until January 10. Expect both to play the Hawks and in the ensuing games like they’re performing on the Apollo stage, with the Sandman tying up his tap-dancing shoes.
There’s a core that fans foresee at the center of the Big Apple, and the aforementioned players, save for a healthy Unicorn, are not a part of it. They want less of Kanter and more of rookie second-rounder Mitchell Robinson, although they won’t get their wishes granted tonight as the latter is saddled with an ankle sprain.
Similar to the way Atlanta entrusts Trae Young while the playmaker takes his lumps (NBA-lowest minus-4.6 Defensive Real Plus/Minus), New Yorkers want lotto-rookie prize forward Kevin Knox (36.2 3FG%; 19.7 PPG, 43 3FG% in last six games) to get more shine, even if it means enduring a little more tarnish (38.3 2FG%; lowest Defensive RPM among non-PGs).
Less Mudiay, more Frank Ntilikina, the 2017 lottery pick who is among the only Knicks (league-worst 117.2 D-Rating this month) capable of sinking some teeth into opponents as an on-ball defender. Less of Junior, more of Trier and Damyean Dotson, a pair of promising wings who may get in each other’s way when both are healthy. Fizdale has his own designs, but as the losing mounts, he would do well to capitulate to the whims of the restless MSG crowd. The Knicks, tonight, are trying to avoid losing their ninth game in the past ten tries.
Conceivably, New York looks like a team that is easy to pick apart on pick-and-roll plays. Broad-shouldered Mudiay and Hardaway get swallowed up by big-man screens, while Kanter often finds himself on skates. Just ask Phoenix’s Devin Booker.
“Pick n Roll at 00 every time,” the surging Suns’ star mockingly stated in a petty payback Instagram post, after Monday’s 128-110 plundering of the Knicks at the Garden. New York went on to get roasted-and-toasted by Joel Embiid and company in a 131-109 loss in Philly, the Sixers racking up 52 paint points with ease while also sinking half their attempted threes.
Indeed, the Knicks are the third-worst in the league (1.38 points allowed per possession) when the Roll Man goes to the hoop, good news tonight for beneficiaries like Dewayne Dedmon (6-for-8 FGs on 10 Roll Man possessions; 13-for-18 FGs overall and 11.0 RPG last two games) and John Collins. The latter missed both the Hawks’ earlier-season losses at the hands of the Knicks, and Atlanta’s frontcourt ought to feast offensively with the Knicks (51.5 opponent paint points-per-48, 2nd-worst in NBA) relying on just Kanter and Luke Kornet to man the middle.
But New York, like the Hawks, get handsy when the ball handler traverses inside off the picks. And it’s been successful for both clubs, each top-five defenses in terms of PPP allowed (Atlanta’s 0.80 just behind the Knicks’ 0.77). With opponents contained by Vonleh and Ntilikina, the Knicks converge to force strips and deflections without fouling, while Junior has found a way to make standing flat-footed work for him (0.42 drawn charges/game, 4th-most in NBA).
That makes for quite a challenge tonight for Atlanta’s Trae Young (40.6 FG% on Ball Handler plays; turnovers on 20.9% of Ball Handler possessions) and former Knicks star Jeremy Lin to navigate smartly and set up quick dishes to the bigs, plus the wings waiting patiently outside the arc, notably Kevin Huerter (41.6 catch-and-shoot 3FG%) and Vince Carter (40.0 catch-and-shoot 3FG%). The Knicks have the energy to keep up, and Kanter to clean up inside, but their offensive attack can get stilted and quite disorganized, allowing a less turnover-prone Hawks team to build up an advantage.
Dignitaries from both clubs were on hand last night in this same arena, only in the stands rather than on the floor. They were watching several highly touted teens under Coach K’s tutelage, players who, if their GMs strike it rich next May, could be suiting up alongside them, competing with them for playing time or, sooner rather than later, serving as their effective replacements. All eyes are on you, too, Jarrett Culver. For both the Hawks and the Knicks, the players were doing as much advance scouting as the executives.
James Dolan is no Elias, but will he bring his acoustic guitar to the ping-pong proceedings next May? And, should he think about trying any funny business in hopes of wooing our former Hollywood starlet, might MJ be around to whack him upside the head? It will depend on which potions the Hawks choose to swill going forward.
Let’s Go Hawks!
~lw3
"Dunking is better than sex." - Shawn Kemp, 1996
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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Jamaaliver
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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lethalweapon3
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
"Dunking is better than sex." - Shawn Kemp, 1996
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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ducler
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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lethalweapon3
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
"Dunking is better than sex." - Shawn Kemp, 1996
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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hawkmanreturns
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
If the Hawks execute and defend like they did last game, I think they win this game easily. Baze said it was personal between him and Hardaway so I expect them to rally around that and come out focused like they did against the Wiz. We may have to park the "heavily armored all terrain vehicle" tonight and get this one in MSG. Hopefully the young guns play well on the big stage.
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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bws94
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
Collins 
Hope he's ok.
Hope he's ok.Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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bws94
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
Knox is in the zone.
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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DirtybirdGA
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
The Hawks aren't caring again.
Where the offseason has more buzz happens.
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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Jamaaliver
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
It took Mudiay a few years, but he seems to be doing well in NY
Trae can't handle him at all.
Sent from my RC555L using RealGM mobile app
Trae can't handle him at all.
Sent from my RC555L using RealGM mobile app
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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EazyRoc
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
Huerter is going to be a legendary Kyle Korver like shooter. Watch.
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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observer1995
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
I think Huerter could possibly be better than Korver. He actually plays good defense (not just team) and has some off the dribble game. I'm not sure if he's a starter yet but I think he could be a 14-15 PPG glue guy starter that passes well and gets some boards.
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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EazyRoc
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
observer1995 wrote:I think Huerter could possibly be better than Korver. He actually plays good defense (not just team) and has some off the dribble game. I'm not sure if he's a starter yet but I think he could be a 14-15 PPG glue guy starter that passes well and gets some boards.
I agree that Huerter will be the better overall player. He could definitely develop into a high quality starter on a contending team. It’s just good to see him out there consistently taking and hitting shots.
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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EazyRoc
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
Trae just isn’t big enough right now to compete on the defensive end against big and/or strong guards. Guys are really just driving through him.
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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bws94
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
Good win. Trae 15/10. Good 2nd half. Good balance of scoring for different Atl players.
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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EazyRoc
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
15 to 4 Off. Rebounds. I love it. Is that 2 back-to-back wins w/o Prince ?
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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personanongrata
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
Great game. Trae is at his best when he just runs the offense and picks his spots. John Collins is a beast.
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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hawkmanreturns
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
Excellent win. Loved how the rooks showed up for this one. We have an All Star on our hands with Collins.
Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
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lethalweapon3
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Re: Game Thread: Hawks in New York -- 12/21
"The group has been resilient from start to finish."
- LL Cool P
- LL Cool P
"Dunking is better than sex." - Shawn Kemp, 1996