Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc

[IllMagic04]

after 2 off-seasons, our best starting 5 of dj/evan/ross/gordon/vuc are still all henny guys. and they are backed up by the most dysfunctional bench in the league, created by all weltman guys. 3 of those in the best 5 are on their way out this summer, and ironically there are people here still preaching patience.

I don't know how long you guys can hold on to the notion that this is all henigan's fault, until you realize currently we have one of the worst front offices in the league.

You have done a pretty great job of outlining reasons why patience (for a little longer) is required. So I’m not sure where your confusion is coming from.

The 4 of the 5 names you gave are Henny leftover contracts with the 5th (AG) being signed to a very trade friendly deal by WeHam.

The dysfunctional bench you mention is composed of two young WeHam draftees and mostly one year guys brought it simply to fill the roster without sacrificing long term financial stability.

You ask “how long can it be Henny’s fault.” Well, until the major contracts he locked us to are gone. A big step towards that will happen this summer, if not sooner by trade, with Vuc and Ross. We still have Evan and DJ but every team has some legacy salary.

If WeHam does not turn the Vuc and Ross expiring contracts into a positive trade or hits in free agency THEN the blame falls on WeHam. Yes, patience is still needed. However, we are fast approaching the midway point of the season. There isn’t much time left for WeHam to start moving.

Henny didnt start with a perfect situation either. But he made due. He didnt sit on his hands he made trades. He didnt draft who the mock draft said to draft. Or who has the longest arms. While idiots like me wanted Trae Burke or Mclamore in 03 he took Dipo. Everyone wanted Exum and he took Gordon. The Dwight trade got us Vuc. Traded JJ to get Harris. Affalo to get Evan. These are moves that were made in his first couple years. Henny was doung a good job right before the Harris trade. I think he must have got hit in the head with a steel chair or something cause all the moves after that were awfull and uncharacteristic going by what he done earlier. My point is theres a difference in being patient and doing nothing.

Also we have had a total of 7 draft picks in the last 2 drafts. 3 last year and 4 the year before. Walking out of those drafts with out a single player whis strength coming in is playmaking or simply putting the basketball into the basket is a clear faulire that I dont see as debatable.

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[drsd]

Question: why does Jeff Turner have two black eyes with the left eye particularly swollen?

[p0peye]

after 2 off-seasons, our best starting 5 of dj/evan/ross/gordon/vuc are still all henny guys. and they are backed up by the most dysfunctional bench in the league, created by all weltman guys. 3 of those in the best 5 are on their way out this summer, and ironically there are people here still preaching patience.

I don't know how long you guys can hold on to the notion that this is all henigan's fault, until you realize currently we have one of the worst front offices in the league.

You have done a pretty great job of outlining reasons why patience (for a little longer) is required. So I’m not sure where your confusion is coming from.

The 4 of the 5 names you gave are Henny leftover contracts with the 5th (AG) being signed to a very trade friendly deal by WeHam.

The dysfunctional bench you mention is composed of two young WeHam draftees and mostly one year guys brought it simply to fill the roster without sacrificing long term financial stability.

You ask “how long can it be Henny’s fault.” Well, until the major contracts he locked us to are gone. A big step towards that will happen this summer, if not sooner by trade, with Vuc and Ross. We still have Evan and DJ but every team has some legacy salary.

If WeHam does not turn the Vuc and Ross expiring contracts into a positive trade or hits in free agency THEN the blame falls on WeHam. Yes, patience is still needed. However, we are fast approaching the midway point of the season. There isn’t much time left for WeHam to start moving.

Henny didnt start with a perfect situation either. But he made due. He didnt sit on his hands he made trades. He didnt draft who the mock draft said to draft. Or who has the longest arms. While idiots like me wanted Trae Burke or Mclamore in 03 he took Dipo. Everyone wanted Exum and he took Gordon. The Dwight trade got us Vuc. Traded JJ to get Harris. Affalo to get Evan. These are moves that were made in his first couple years. Henny was doung a good job right before the Harris trade. I think he must have got hit in the head with a steel chair or something cause all the moves after that were awfull and uncharacteristic going by what he done earlier. My point is theres a difference in being patient and doing nothing.

Also we have had a total of 7 draft picks in the last 2 drafts. 3 last year and 4 the year before. Walking out of those drafts with out a single player whis strength coming in is playmaking or simply putting the basketball into the basket is a clear faulire that I dont see as debatable.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using RealGM mobile app

Only mistake Henny made in his first two seasons is hiring of Jacque Vaughn.

[Mc-o]

Question: why does Jeff Turner have two black eyes with the left eye particularly swollen?

Illuminati ritual

[j-ragg]

after 2 off-seasons, our best starting 5 of dj/evan/ross/gordon/vuc are still all henny guys. and they are backed up by the most dysfunctional bench in the league, created by all weltman guys. 3 of those in the best 5 are on their way out this summer, and ironically there are people here still preaching patience.

I don't know how long you guys can hold on to the notion that this is all henigan's fault, until you realize currently we have one of the worst front offices in the league.

You have done a pretty great job of outlining reasons why patience (for a little longer) is required. So I’m not sure where your confusion is coming from.

The 4 of the 5 names you gave are Henny leftover contracts with the 5th (AG) being signed to a very trade friendly deal by WeHam.

The dysfunctional bench you mention is composed of two young WeHam draftees and mostly one year guys brought it simply to fill the roster without sacrificing long term financial stability.

You ask “how long can it be Henny’s fault.” Well, until the major contracts he locked us to are gone. A big step towards that will happen this summer, if not sooner by trade, with Vuc and Ross. We still have Evan and DJ but every team has some legacy salary.

If WeHam does not turn the Vuc and Ross expiring contracts into a positive trade or hits in free agency THEN the blame falls on WeHam. Yes, patience is still needed. However, we are fast approaching the midway point of the season. There isn’t much time left for WeHam to start moving.

Henny didnt start with a perfect situation either. But he made due. He didnt sit on his hands he made trades. He didnt draft who the mock draft said to draft. Or who has the longest arms. While idiots like me wanted Trae Burke or Mclamore in 03 he took Dipo. Everyone wanted Exum and he took Gordon. The Dwight trade got us Vuc. Traded JJ to get Harris. Affalo to get Evan. These are moves that were made in his first couple years. Henny was doung a good job right before the Harris trade.

I was always a Hennigan defender because he made smart moves until the Skiles acquisition. Just re-signed Tobias to a nice affordable extension, hires Skiles, then trades Tobias a few months later. I think Hennigan deserves criticism for letting guys influence his decisions (although if they're above you, it'd take titanium balls to tell them no), but it's painfully obvious something in the front office changed when Skiles was hired. When in reality we were in the best position of this entire rebuild.

WeltHam walked into a wayyy better position than Hennigan did, not even close. Hennigan had old role players and virtually no young talent outside of Vuc and Harkless and the 19th pick in the draft.

[VFX]

You have done a pretty great job of outlining reasons why patience (for a little longer) is required. So I’m not sure where your confusion is coming from.

The 4 of the 5 names you gave are Henny leftover contracts with the 5th (AG) being signed to a very trade friendly deal by WeHam.

The dysfunctional bench you mention is composed of two young WeHam draftees and mostly one year guys brought it simply to fill the roster without sacrificing long term financial stability.

You ask “how long can it be Henny’s fault.” Well, until the major contracts he locked us to are gone. A big step towards that will happen this summer, if not sooner by trade, with Vuc and Ross. We still have Evan and DJ but every team has some legacy salary.

If WeHam does not turn the Vuc and Ross expiring contracts into a positive trade or hits in free agency THEN the blame falls on WeHam. Yes, patience is still needed. However, we are fast approaching the midway point of the season. There isn’t much time left for WeHam to start moving.

Henny didnt start with a perfect situation either. But he made due. He didnt sit on his hands he made trades. He didnt draft who the mock draft said to draft. Or who has the longest arms. While idiots like me wanted Trae Burke or Mclamore in 03 he took Dipo. Everyone wanted Exum and he took Gordon. The Dwight trade got us Vuc. Traded JJ to get Harris. Affalo to get Evan. These are moves that were made in his first couple years. Henny was doung a good job right before the Harris trade.

I was always a Hennigan defender because he made smart moves until the Skiles acquisition. Just re-signed Tobias to a nice affordable extension, hires Skiles, then trades Tobias a few months later. I think Hennigan deserves criticism for letting guys influence his decisions (although if they're above you, it'd take titanium balls to tell them no), but it's painfully obvious something in the front office changed when Skiles was hired. When in reality we were in the best position of this entire rebuild.

WeltHam walked into a wayyy better position than Hennigan did, not even close. Hennigan had old role players and virtually no young talent outside of Vuc and Harkless and the 19th pick in the draft.

WeHam walked into a better situation and still decided to not make any changes to the roster outside of trading EP rather than extending him. It’s amazing that the only thing they’ve undertaken as a FO is addressing the bench depth and it looks like easily one of the worst benches in the league.

They can’t take any credit at all for the starting lineup because it’s still technically Hennigans. They are a joke to me. If they don’t make changes to the starting lineup this season, it’ll be obvious they are inept at their jobs and just taking paychecks from this clueless organization.

[drsd]

I was always a Hennigan defender because he made smart moves until the Skiles acquisition. Just re-signed Tobias to a nice affordable extension, hires Skiles, then trades Tobias a few months later. I think Hennigan deserves criticism for letting guys influence his decisions (although if they're above you, it'd take titanium balls to tell them no), but it's painfully obvious something in the front office changed when Skiles was hired. When in reality we were in the best position of this entire rebuild.

WeltHam walked into a wayyy better position than Hennigan did, not even close. Hennigan had old role players and virtually no young talent outside of Vuc and Harkless and the 19th pick in the draft.

If Ibaka has worked out, then this would have been a different vibe.

Former-Gm Hennigan rolled the dice and lost. I respect his go-for-it chance. And that it did not work out, we'll he needed to lose his job.

But at the time, it made sense to me. Orlando could not keep Fournier and Oladipo, and all metrics, all, had FOurneir as the better SG prospect.

(( an aside, having Fournier play SF these last two years was awful for the Frenchman ))

..

[Furinkazan]

But at the time, it made sense to me. Orlando could not keep Fournier and Oladipo, and all metrics, all, had FOurneir as the better SG prospect.

(( an aside, having Fournier play SF these last two years was awful for the Frenchman ))

..

umm my metric did not

[basketballRob]

Minus Dragic and Miami is a good team.

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[MagicFan4Lyfe]

I just stopped reading about Doncic and watching his highlights. Year 7 and we are still debating about the merits of Vuc, Fournier, gripping about no real starting NBA PG, watching our top lottery picks struggle with their offense.
I thought last season was depressing. This feels even worse.

How low can it go?

[MagicFan101]

Here is my question.

Why do so many of you feel WeHam have already missed the boat on any and all opportunity to improve this team?

Where was the missed deadline that had to be met?

... I 100% believe it is nothing more than people are tired of waiting. Correct me if I’m wrong.

[VFX]

Here is my question.

Why do so many of you feel WeHam have already missed the boat on any and all opportunity to improve this team?

Where was the missed deadline that had to be met?

... I 100% believe it is nothing more than people are tired of waiting. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I’ve already explained it to you. Read back a page. When a new front office is hired they have a window to do whatever they want. In this case, to blow up the team that hasn’t worked in half a decade. Instead, they kept every player under the previous management and have made almost no real moves outside of playing it safe with what hasn’t worked.

People aren’t “tired of waiting” on WeHam as much as they are “tired of trying” with this SAME roster with a different coat of paint. Their job is to improve the team whether that is trying to acquire different players via trade, or by committing to the youth and building through the draft. They chose to do neither and roll with what hasn’t obviously worked. They are wasting time by not picking a direction. Isn’t that obvious?

[OrlandoNed]

Here is my question.

Why do so many of you feel WeHam have already missed the boat on any and all opportunity to improve this team?

Where was the missed deadline that had to be met?

... I 100% believe it is nothing more than people are tired of waiting. Correct me if I’m wrong.

It’s a little of that and a little bit of an incredulousness of how long it has taken them do ANYTHING noteworthy? I mean what new front office takes this long to find a player as good as any of Hennigan’s guys? We know Hennigan’s players aren’t that good, it’s why we’ve been so bad for so long. It’s extremely abnormal for a new GM to not make an attempt in a year and a half to overhaul the roster of a team that hasn’t sniffed the playoffs in 7 years. We brought these guys in to fix the foundational issues of a bad roster, not ride with what everyone knows doesn’t freaking work. If we wanted to keep the status quo, why even fire Hennigan in the first place? You don’t rebuild a rundown building with a caved in roof by first replacing the busted lightbulbs.

Until WeHam either moves more Hennigan guys or finds anybody as good as them, we’re gonna keep calling them out on their inaction.

[MagicFan101]

Here is my question.

Why do so many of you feel WeHam have already missed the boat on any and all opportunity to improve this team?

Where was the missed deadline that had to be met?

... I 100% believe it is nothing more than people are tired of waiting. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I’ve already explained it to you. Read back a page. When a new front office is hired they have a window to do whatever they want. In this case, to blow up the team that hasn’t worked in half a decade. Instead, they kept every player under the previous management and have made almost no real moves outside of playing it safe with what hasn’t worked.

People aren’t “tired of waiting” on WeHam as much as they are “tired of trying” with this SAME roster with a different coat of paint. Their job is to improve the team whether that is trying to acquire different players via trade, or by committing to the youth and building through the draft. They chose to do neither and roll with what hasn’t obviously worked. They are wasting time by not picking a direction. Isn’t that obvious?

That “window” you speak of is in reality defined by the length of remaining committed salaries ...

That window will be half closed for them this summer when Vuc and Ross expire.

WeHam have to have to have to make something of these salaries. No WeHam apologist can deny that.

But I do disagree that this has to have happened before today. Sure that would have been nice. But the window for that is not closed. We have the deadline for a trade or free agency to use the money on someone else.

[MagicFan101]

Until WeHam either moves more Hennigan guys or finds anybody as good as them, we’re gonna keep calling them out on their inaction.

That is fine. The clock is ticking on WeHam for all of us.

My feeling is simply that of waiting for the right opportunity helps us avoid a Dipo for Ibaka level panic move just for the sake of “blowing it up” or a “balanced offense” then I’m all for seeing what we can squeeze out from a little patience.

If people are already okay with the idea of blowing it up and getting nothing in return then the floor on acceptable return is low. How about we wait until the trade deadline or even free agency to see if the ceiling can be pushed up a notch? Right?

[VFX]

Here is my question.

Why do so many of you feel WeHam have already missed the boat on any and all opportunity to improve this team?

Where was the missed deadline that had to be met?

... I 100% believe it is nothing more than people are tired of waiting. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I’ve already explained it to you. Read back a page. When a new front office is hired they have a window to do whatever they want. In this case, to blow up the team that hasn’t worked in half a decade. Instead, they kept every player under the previous management and have made almost no real moves outside of playing it safe with what hasn’t worked.

People aren’t “tired of waiting” on WeHam as much as they are “tired of trying” with this SAME roster with a different coat of paint. Their job is to improve the team whether that is trying to acquire different players via trade, or by committing to the youth and building through the draft. They chose to do neither and roll with what hasn’t obviously worked. They are wasting time by not picking a direction. Isn’t that obvious?

That “window” you speak of is in reality defined by the length of remaining committed salaries ...

That window will be half closed for them this summer when Vuc and Ross expire.

WeHam have to have to have to make something of these salaries. No WeHam apologist can deny that.

But I do disagree that this has to have happened before today. Sure that would have been nice. But the window for that is not closed. We have the deadline for a trade or free agency to use the money on someone else.

You make it seem as if none of the players on this roster are at all tradeable. They are. Vuc and Ross would give us a return regardless of its worth at face value. If they merely expire, then management didn’t do their job.

The window I’m talking about is more about fan /public expectations. They could have done a number of things to change this roster in the first year or so, they didn’t, and nobody would have faulted then if they did. They chose option “mediocrity” and Orlando will pay the price because of it whether that happens to be draft stock or trade value in players that should have been moved years ago.

[MagicFan101]

I’ve already explained it to you. Read back a page. When a new front office is hired they have a window to do whatever they want. In this case, to blow up the team that hasn’t worked in half a decade. Instead, they kept every player under the previous management and have made almost no real moves outside of playing it safe with what hasn’t worked.

People aren’t “tired of waiting” on WeHam as much as they are “tired of trying” with this SAME roster with a different coat of paint. Their job is to improve the team whether that is trying to acquire different players via trade, or by committing to the youth and building through the draft. They chose to do neither and roll with what hasn’t obviously worked. They are wasting time by not picking a direction. Isn’t that obvious?

That “window” you speak of is in reality defined by the length of remaining committed salaries ...

That window will be half closed for them this summer when Vuc and Ross expire.

WeHam have to have to have to make something of these salaries. No WeHam apologist can deny that.

But I do disagree that this has to have happened before today. Sure that would have been nice. But the window for that is not closed. We have the deadline for a trade or free agency to use the money on someone else.

You make it seem as if none of the players on this roster are at all tradeable. They are. Vuc and Ross would give us a return regardless of its worth at face value. If they merely expire, then management didn’t do their job.

The window I’m talking about is more about fan /public expectations. They could have done a number of things to change this roster in the first year or so and they didn’t. They chose option “mediocrity” and Orlando will pay the price because of it whether that happens to be draft stock or trade value in players that should have been moved years ago.

That isn’t my belief at all. Quite the opposite. If they are “untradable” then you take a Biz for Mozgov type deal. A call for patience means there is hope of better returns than just taking the first offer.

I would much rather see a trade for someone on a long term contract to ensure we get our guy rather than hope someone picks us in free agency.

But I disagree that letting these contracts expire alone equals failure. You have to see what comes of that cap space.

WeHam have done a number of moves which go unappreciated around here ... because those moves have not matured yet.

Letting Mario walk, giving AG a front loaded contract, signing rentals on non-guaranteed deals, not trading away our 2019 expiring deals.

How can anyone say they don’t have a plan? Clearly they are maintaining cap flexibility for something this summer.

What is it? What do they want? Can they get it? <— answers to these questions are what WeHam will be judged on. We just have to wait to see how it turns out. That time has not yet come.

[VFX]

That “window” you speak of is in reality defined by the length of remaining committed salaries ...

That window will be half closed for them this summer when Vuc and Ross expire.

WeHam have to have to have to make something of these salaries. No WeHam apologist can deny that.

But I do disagree that this has to have happened before today. Sure that would have been nice. But the window for that is not closed. We have the deadline for a trade or free agency to use the money on someone else.

You make it seem as if none of the players on this roster are at all tradeable. They are. Vuc and Ross would give us a return regardless of its worth at face value. If they merely expire, then management didn’t do their job.

The window I’m talking about is more about fan /public expectations. They could have done a number of things to change this roster in the first year or so and they didn’t. They chose option “mediocrity” and Orlando will pay the price because of it whether that happens to be draft stock or trade value in players that should have been moved years ago.

That isn’t my belief at all. Quite the opposite. If they are “untradable” then you take a Biz for Mozgov type deal. A call for patience means there is hope of better returns than just taking the first offer.

I would much rather see a trade for someone on a long term contract to ensure we get our guy rather than hope someone picks us in free agency.

But I disagree that letting these contracts expire alone equals failure. You have to see what comes of that cap space.

WeHam have done a number of moves which go unappreciated around here ... because those moves have not matured yet.

Letting Mario walk, giving AG a front loaded contract, signing rentals on non-guaranteed deals, not trading away our 2019 expiring deals.

How can anyone say they don’t have a plan? Clearly they are maintaining cap flexibility for something this summer.

What is it? What do they want? Can they get it? <— answers to these questions are what WeHam will be judged on. We just have to wait to see how it turns out. That time has not yet come.

My question to anyone claiming “cap space” as their saving grace is what could they possibly do with it? Orlando has zero leverage outside of throwing as much money as possible at free agents that would even slightly consider it a real destination. There is no star player and no prospect of winning. Outside of resigning players, taking on bad contracts, and overpaying for guys that their teams don’t want/ can’t pay, I sincerely doubt all this cap space will be useful at this stage.

Congrats they didn’t massively overpay AG. I still think Orlando could have tested the market on Mario considering our bench production blows, so they don’t get a pass from me on that one.

You can keep giving WeHam passes until it becomes obvious they have no direction. I’ll be more shocked if anything they’ve been doing is going to make sense a year from now.

[MagicFan101]

You make it seem as if none of the players on this roster are at all tradeable. They are. Vuc and Ross would give us a return regardless of its worth at face value. If they merely expire, then management didn’t do their job.

The window I’m talking about is more about fan /public expectations. They could have done a number of things to change this roster in the first year or so and they didn’t. They chose option “mediocrity” and Orlando will pay the price because of it whether that happens to be draft stock or trade value in players that should have been moved years ago.

That isn’t my belief at all. Quite the opposite. If they are “untradable” then you take a Biz for Mozgov type deal. A call for patience means there is hope of better returns than just taking the first offer.

I would much rather see a trade for someone on a long term contract to ensure we get our guy rather than hope someone picks us in free agency.

But I disagree that letting these contracts expire alone equals failure. You have to see what comes of that cap space.

WeHam have done a number of moves which go unappreciated around here ... because those moves have not matured yet.

Letting Mario walk, giving AG a front loaded contract, signing rentals on non-guaranteed deals, not trading away our 2019 expiring deals.

How can anyone say they don’t have a plan? Clearly they are maintaining cap flexibility for something this summer.

What is it? What do they want? Can they get it? <— answers to these questions are what WeHam will be judged on. We just have to wait to see how it turns out. That time has not yet come.

My question to anyone claiming “cap space” as their saving grace is what could they possibly do with it? Orlando has zero leverage outside of throwing as much money as possible at free agents that would even slightly consider it a real destination. There is no star player and no prospect of winning. Outside of resigning players, taking on bad contracts, and overpaying for guys that their teams don’t want/ can’t pay, I sincerely doubt all this cap space will be useful at this stage.

Congrats they didn’t massively overpay AG. I still think Orlando could have tested the market on Mario considering our bench production blows, so they don’t get a pass from me on that one.

You can keep giving WeHam passes until it becomes obvious they have no direction. I’ll be more shocked if anything they’ve been doing is going to make sense a year from now.

I said it right there. I would rather make a trade for our guy than put our faith in cap space. But hey, I’m not the GM paid millions to figure this out.

I think we want the same thing. We just disagree on timeline and urgency.

For me, I want to see what comes from trades and / or free agency and what NEXT seasons looks like. The handcuffs are just now starting to come off.


I credit them for not adding to it with shortsighted moves. But it’s almost time to show that you can do something with that flexibility. If 2019 isn’t significantly better than this roster then they failed. No excuses with the tradable assets and / cap space they had this year.

[pepe1991]

Man i got drunk last night and i'm vomiting all day, and yet even that feels better than this never ending debate about FO.

When you bring new guys they do have grace period, sure. But year and half into new front office not a single player they brought looks like nba level starter.
Will it change with more salary cap? I don't know. I would assume no since they are not really most beloved guys around nba. i highly doubt anybody but Tony Snell or worst Plumlee brother will run to play for Hammond ( assuming they love him for how much he overpayed their scrubish a***s when he was Bucks GM )

As for Weltman, he allegedly was big part of developing system of Raptors bench players.