Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[LedZepp007]

What would you guys think about Middleton, Brogdon, and a second for Beal and filler?


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I'm thinking, get the **** out of here with that nonsense.

Lol. What would Grunfeld think?


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[nate33]

What would you guys think about Middleton, Brogdon, and a second for Beal and filler?


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We don't want Middleton for the same reason you are trying to trade him. He's a good player, but he's about to be massively overpaid. Even if he is just as good as Beal (and I don't think he is), why would we trade the younger player on a better contract for an older player on a (soon to be) worse contract? It makes no sense whatsoever. Why would you believe such a trade would possibly interest us?

[dckingsfan]

What would you guys think about Middleton, Brogdon, and a second for Beal and filler?

How about Wall for Middleton and Maker?

[Dat2U]

Does Beal + 6th or 7th pick get us the #1 pick in this years draft?

[dckingsfan]

Does Beal + 6th or 7th pick get us the #1 pick in this years draft?

Guessing no one is trading that pick - is that what you were thinking?

[Dat2U]

Does Beal + 6th or 7th pick get us the #1 pick in this years draft?

Guessing no one is trading that pick - is that what you were thinking?

Never say never?

Would it get us the #2 or #3 pick? In most years I think it would considered a real strong offer.

[pcbothwel]

Does Beal + 6th or 7th pick get us the #1 pick in this years draft?

Ehhh... no interest. I'd rather trade to 3 and take Barrett or Bol and get something back. I.E. Beal & 6 to Suns for Bridges & 3

Or sit at 6 and take Little or Morant

[payitforward]

What would you guys think about Middleton, Brogdon, and a second for Beal and filler?

I'm thinking, get the **** out of here with that nonsense.

Now, now... no need to talk nasty to a Led Zeppelin fan!

First off, that trade doesn't work in the Trade Machine -- you would need to add "filler," not us!

That aside, the problem with the trade is pretty simple: Middleton is going to opt out, & he'll get a sizable offer from someone. We would be unlikely to be able to keep him, & if we did we wouldn't have knocked our salary down by much.

We need forward-looking assets. But, of course, we can't trade Beal w/o taking back salary. But you don't have anyone good whom you want to trade (beyond Middleton, I mean). So, it's hard even to come up with a trade that works. Best I could do would be:

Wiz get: Middleton, Snell, Connaughton, Brogdon, plus picks (see below)
Bucks get: Beal, Howard, Green.

Middleton doesn't pick up his option, neither does Howard. So after this season the players traded resolve to: Beal to you, Connaughton, Brogdon & Snell (whom we don't really want but take to make the deal work) to us.

I think we'd need a) our R2 pick back & b) your R1 pick (which is going to be quite low!).

Make any sense to you?

[payitforward]

Does Beal + 6th or 7th pick get us the #1 pick in this years draft?

Guessing no one is trading that pick - is that what you were thinking?

Never say never?

Would it get us the #2 or #3 pick? In most years I think it would considered a real strong offer.

I'd say it's a strong offer right now. Certainly the way Beal seems to be valued around the league. I'd think the other team would add their #33 pick.

Most important, at least to my way of thinking: even w/o Beal we are at $90m next year for 4 players. That means we mostly have room for cheap players. But, we are a rebuilding team at that point, hence we want our cheap players mostly in the form of young players.

In our case, in other words, quantity of picks means more than it might mean if we were going to contend.

Of course, this assumes a new GM. If Ernie is here, it really doesn't matter what we do. All Ernie's roads lead to the same place.

[payitforward]

Does Beal + 6th or 7th pick get us the #1 pick in this years draft?

Ehhh... no interest. I'd rather trade to 3 and take Barrett or Bol and get something back. I.E. Beal & 6 to Suns for Bridges & 3

Or sit at 6 and take Little or Morant

I don't think Beal & the #6 would get us Bridges & the #3, but if so -- you bet!

[Sactowndog]

Come with a question. After all the moves what is the Wizards salary structure at the moment? Are you still in the luxery tax facing the repeater tax?

[dangermouse]

What would you guys think about Middleton, Brogdon, and a second for Beal and filler?


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I was with you up until you said Beal. I thought you were going to say Wall! Who obviously doesnt make any sense to your team with Giannis, whereas Beal would fit almost anywhere.

Speaking of which, and to the rest of the forum...

Why isnt Ernie on the blower to New Orleans every single day until they block his number, and then buying another burner phone?

We need to capitalise on their desperation to keep Davis:

Wall for Solomon Hill & Wes Johnson (both expiring) + 2019 1st (top 5 protected). Or, Wall + Green for Hill + Randle.

I think both deals are fair value for both teams. Pels get an all star point guard to try and keep Davis in town. I think Wall/Jrue/Miller/Randle/Davis is a pretty good team and a good fit for Wall. Sub out Randle for Mirotic if they do the second deal, but I'm sure they'd be fine with the first deal and keeping Randle as he is locked in for another year.

[pcbothwel]

Come with a question. After all the moves what is the Wizards salary structure at the moment? Are you still in the luxery tax facing the repeater tax?

Yes, we are 6.5M over and have ZERO reason to believe Ted will pay it. That said, its quite easy to get under by trading Ariza and Kieff for expiring filler.
"Technically", we could get under in one move by trading Ariza for 3 players making 10M (Doable with any Non-Tax paying team).
Then waiving Randle and Baker puts us about 200-300k under.

[nate33]

Come with a question. After all the moves what is the Wizards salary structure at the moment? Are you still in the luxery tax facing the repeater tax?

We are $6M above the luxtax threshold and are facing a roughly $9M luxtax payment. We are not in the repeater tax but if we go over the tax next year we will be.

It would be nice to avoid the luxtax, but I don't think it's a top priority. So far, they've avoided every opportunity to trade away their 1st round pick for cap relief. If ownership was that afraid of the luxury tax, they would not have signed Dwight Howard this offseason for $6M.

I think the strategy right now is to shake off the early poor start and try and make a push for the playoffs. That's why they traded for Ariza. (I'm sure they could have gotten more cap relief and a lesser player in the Oubre trade if they wanted to.) However, if the Wizards can't put it together in the next few weeks and it appears that they are out of playoff contention by the Trade Deadline, then they might take steps to avoid the luxtax.

The most obvious and least painful moves would be to trade the expiring contracts of Ariza and Morris to contending teams for expiring contracts of worse players on smaller contracts. An example would be Ariza to LA for KCP (or better yet, for Rondo + a minimum salary); or Morris to Philly for Muscala.

Obviously, a John Wall trade could go a long way towards averting any luxtax issues. But the way he is playing this year, I think he might be untradeable. Better to wait until the summer and see if teams with cap room who have struck out on top tier free agents are willing to consider John Wall as a consolation prize.

[dckingsfan]

Come with a question. After all the moves what is the Wizards salary structure at the moment? Are you still in the luxery tax facing the repeater tax?

We are $6M above the luxtax threshold and are facing a roughly $9M luxtax payment. We are not in the repeater tax but if we go over the tax next year we will be.

It would be nice to avoid the luxtax, but I don't think it's a top priority. So far, they've avoided every opportunity to trade away their 1st round pick for cap relief. If ownership was that afraid of the luxury tax, they would not have signed Dwight Howard this offseason for $6M.

I think the strategy right now is to shake off the early poor start and try and make a push for the playoffs. That's why they traded for Ariza. (I'm sure they could have gotten more cap relief and a lesser player in the Oubre trade if they wanted to.) However, if the Wizards can't put it together in the next few weeks and it appears that they are out of playoff contention by the Trade Deadline, then they might take steps to avoid the luxtax.

The most obvious and least painful moves would be to trade the expiring contracts of Ariza and Morris to contending teams for expiring contracts of worse players on smaller contracts. An example would be Ariza to LA for KCP (or better yet, for Rondo + a minimum salary); or Morris to Philly for Muscala.

I "think" (and that is probably a bad thing to do when trying to figure out what EG is going to do next) that you are right, the Ariza move is to try to get in the playoffs. They will pretty much know late January and then they will try to get under the luxury line if they aren't going to make. If they don't make the playoffs, I would "think" they would blow up the big three.

[Sactowndog]

Come with a question. After all the moves what is the Wizards salary structure at the moment? Are you still in the luxery tax facing the repeater tax?

Yes, we are 6.5M over and have ZERO reason to believe Ted will pay it. That said, its quite easy to get under by trading Ariza and Kieff for expiring filler.
"Technically", we could get under in one move by trading Ariza for 3 players making 10M (Doable with any Non-Tax paying team).
Then waiving Randle and Baker puts us about 200-300k under.

Thanks

[LedZepp007]

What would you guys think about Middleton, Brogdon, and a second for Beal and filler?


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I was with you up until you said Beal. I thought you were going to say Wall! Who obviously doesnt make any sense to your team with Giannis, whereas Beal would fit almost anywhere.

Speaking of which, and to the rest of the forum...

Why isnt Ernie on the blower to New Orleans every single day until they block his number, and then buying another burner phone?

We need to capitalise on their desperation to keep Davis:

Wall for Solomon Hill & Wes Johnson (both expiring) + 2019 1st (top 5 protected). Or, Wall + Green for Hill + Randle.

I think both deals are fair value for both teams. Pels get an all star point guard to try and keep Davis in town. I think Wall/Jrue/Miller/Randle/Davis is a pretty good team and a good fit for Wall. Sub out Randle for Mirotic if they do the second deal, but I'm sure they'd be fine with the first deal and keeping Randle as he is locked in for another year.

I would do Middleton, Thon, etc., for Wall, etc.


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[payitforward]

I would do Middleton, Thon, etc., for Wall, etc.

How about Middleton, Brogdon, Connaughton & we get our R2 pick back -- for Wall.

Work for you?

[Dark Faze]

Funny thing about how bad we are is the fact that two major rotation guys are without a doubt not coming back in Ariza and Kieff.

And honestly, I'm not sure if they can pay Sato enough to come back. He can get very good offers in Europe if other teams don't call.

[Eli Babak]

I want to trade Wall for a bag of chips and build around Beal/Porter but I tried something different for fun...

Wall + Howard
for
Anderson + Bender + MIL 1st (very likely 2020)

Wall/Melton/Okobo
Booker/Crawford/Daniels
Bridges/Oubre
Warren/Jackson
Ayton/Holmes/Howard

---

Morris + Green for Muscala + Korkmaz

Simmons/McConnell/Fultz
Redick/Shamet/Smith
Butler/Green
Chandler/Morris/Bolden
Embiid/Johnson/Patton

---

Ariza + Dekker for Hill + Johnson + top-3 protected 2019 1st
(separate trades but Wiz have a TPE to make Dekker for Johnson work, right?)

Payton/Frazier/Jackson
Holiday/Moore/Clark
Ariza/Miller
Mirotic/Dekker/Diallo
Davis/Randle/Okafor

---

Porter for Randolph + McLemore + Labissiere + 2019 2nd (best they have)/2020 2nd (best of DET/MIA/SAC)/2021 2nd (best of MIA/MEM/SAC)

Fox/Mason/Ferrell
Hield/Bogdanovic
Porter/Shumpert/Jackson
Bjelica/Bagley
WCS/Koufos/Giles

---

Beal for KCP + Ball + Beasley + 2019 1st + 2022 2nd

Rondo/Bonga
Beal/Hart/Mykhailiuk
Ingram/Stephenson
LeBron/Kuzma/Wagner
McGee/Chandler/Zubac

---

Ball/Satoransky/Randle
KCP/Korkmaz/Baker
Hill/Brown/Johnson
Anderson/Labissiere/Bender
Bryant/Muscala/Mahinmi

Randolph bought out
Beasley bought out
McLemore bought out

Total salary
115 070 156 + Randle + Baker

---

Picks we'd have
2019: WAS 1st, LAL 1st, NOP 1st, 1 2nd
2020: WAS 1st, MIL 1st, 1 2nd
2021: WAS 1st, 1 2nd
2022: WAS 1st, 1 2nd
And in 2023 we'd finally have our own 1st & 2nd round picks

---

Summer of 2019:
Ball

Brown/Hill
Anderson/Labissiere
Mahinmi
+ re-sign Satoransky (3y/27M, 10-9-8M) and Bryant (3y/10M with team options, 2.5-3.5-4M)
= 71 086 479
+ WAS 1st, LAL 1st, NOP 1st, 1 2nd
= 12 players (unless "draft and stash")
+ maybe some of KCP, Korkmaz, Bender, Muscala?

Fire Brooks and hire some (young) new face in the NBA. Tank hard for another year and have crazy amount of cap space in 2020 with great young players (Ball/Brown/Bryant/drafted players + Sato + Labissiere? Bender? Korkmaz?).

Then trade a 2nd round pick for a bust, sign 3 UDFAs and 3 bigs...

Edit: Please don't take this too seriously but I guess anything would be better than what Ernie & Ted are doing right now.