Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

[Knicksfan1992]

whether your a frank supporter or hater I see no point to him riding on the bench. His problem is shooting and confidence how exactly does that get better sitting on the bench for development purposes. Give him a couple weeks down in the G-league and once we get back from the west coast trip maybe the roster glut will finally be dealt with and he can go back to playing 25 minutes consistently every night where he should be.

This downplays it a little bit too much for my liking... It isn't just shooting. There's a lot more issues than just that... I think the lack of shooting sticks out more because we all hoped that if he gained anything offensively it would be a more consistent jumper based on his form and limitations elsewhere offensively and it's just been bad... Basically if Frank can't shoot even at a slightly below average clip he's barely a replacement player IMO.

I don't see you actually suggesting a plan to help develop him you just giving your opinion on him as a player which is a take for most people who don't care for him. I don't see how it does him any good to ride on the bench (especially for replacement level players that are on contract years). However playing time is the most important right now, so if that means he actually gets legit playing time down in the G-league so be it.

This take 2 shots and if he misses he gets taken out while other guys can miss 14 shots without penalty is ridiculous.

I mean I agree mostly with what you're saying but you're acting as if Fiz and everyone who doesn't share a totally optimistic/victim mentality for Frank is personally against him. I don't think Fiz has a personal vendetta towards Frank. He's said nothing but positive things about the kid to the media when asked. He's yet to string honestly like 3 good games together frankly. And to be also quite frank, most players have improved since Fiz has come on board and if they haven't improved overall they've improved at least some parts of their game. So, to me, it seems like more of a Frank problem than a Fiz problem who everyone loves to blame for pretty much everything on here... But what it comes down to is Frank just hasn't produced consistently in any capacity outside of defense this year. And when he has produced offensively it's been mostly jumpers so, it's not like he's produced anything that seems mostly sustainable. And while you're complaining about others going unchecked for missing shots at least they are being aggressive and trying to help the cause offensively. Timmy can be frustrating but he has, in the past, at least strung together multiple good games in a row and he is playing a position where we do not have a lot of depth right now so I don't really see where his minutes would go outside of giving Frank more wing minutes which most people here hated to begin with And Mudiay who i'm guessing is part of your "chuck unchecked" crew has been our best passer by far this year and most willing to break down the D and make something happen so he's doing things to help others. And even his defense, at times, has looked decent.

To me, Fiz has given Frank every chance to take the job by the horns and he just hasn't and it seems the only way Frank ever responds is when he's benched or has his minutes cut and has to prove himself again. We saw it after the initial benching, he then came out with 2 of his best games (again mostly jumpers but at least the aggression to take those shots was there). A lot of the criticism of Fiz seems to be his in-game strategy is lacking... I don't necessarily agree with that, but that aside, I actually think DHO's would really benefit Frank and he hasn't really been able to do anything with them and when he doesn't have the ball he looks like a lost puppy. He's not making himself an active spot up option, he never cuts or makes himself available. I just don't really know what to do with him. I think the G-League could help but it's not going to help him flesh out most of his issues offensively except for maybe getting a little more free reign with the ball in his hands, but I don't even think that's a realistic pathway to success at the NBA level anyway for Frank... For confidence issues sure send him to the G-League and maybe just having that confidence will help his other areas of his offensive game. I could see that. I also would either not play Burke anymore, trade him or cut him and give those mins. to Frank exclusively. IDK i'm really lost on what to do with him. He's been really disappointing/concerning this year on multiple fronts.

[Chanel Bomber]

I'm honestly growing tired of all this cliche Knicks talk of "playing the right way" because it reminds us of the championships we won half-a-century ago even though most of us weren't even born. This is all marketing. This is part of the Knicks marketing strategy to make us forget how irrelevant this franchise has been the last two decades (four if we're talking championships). The Knicks exceptionalism. We hear about it all the time and we convince ourselves that it's true, that it exists, that playing the right way means sharing the ball, passing to the open shooter, not overdribbling the ball and that it will somehow lead us to another championship. Breaking news: It won't.

Steph Curry takes "bad" shots. LeBron is a ball hog. James Harden is an ISO player and a "chucker". KD is definitely a high-volume scorer. These are the guys who win you championships in today's NBA, and actually have for a very long time. They just do what they do at an incredibly high level. These Knicks teams were an anomaly, like the 2004 Pistons, yet they had 100x the talent that Frank has shown in his brief NBA career. Don't get me wrong, unselfishness helps but talent wins.

I think this is the problem with some of the most hardcore Frank supporters. The way he dribbles the ball reminds you of how the Knicks dribbled the ball 48 years ago. It's obviously not "fancy", so "fancy" has to be wrong, because that's not how we did it in the 70s. He can't shoot and he has the second worst TS% of any rotation player in the entire NBA? Doesn't matter. Because Clyde Frazier and Bill Bradley were passing the rock. Nevermind the fact that Frank is nowhere near as impactful or talented as those guys were in their era.

Now some posters (I assume some of the most hardcore Frank supporters) are saying that Frank plays the right way and Melo didn't. This is insane to me. I don't hate Frank. And I'm not mad at people who believe he can improve, that's their opinion and I respect it. But the belief that Frank "plays the right way" even though he's been one of the worst players in the entire NBA since being drafted is - in my opinion - based on a false premise. Or an outdated logic. I don't know. I could be wrong. I just thought of kane's post which tried to explore why Frank has been so divisive and I figured this might help explain this divide. Just food for thought.

[ohboy109]

Knicks are dummies.. Send the kid to the GLeague... they had no problem sending Dotson, Kornet and Baker down there to develop last year... who give a fck where he was drafted. That's what a GL team is for....

Dumb azz Knicks... SMH

it was a dumb phil and gaines pick Fuz knows it
stop being homer he sucks

[mpharris36]

This downplays it a little bit too much for my liking... It isn't just shooting. There's a lot more issues than just that... I think the lack of shooting sticks out more because we all hoped that if he gained anything offensively it would be a more consistent jumper based on his form and limitations elsewhere offensively and it's just been bad... Basically if Frank can't shoot even at a slightly below average clip he's barely a replacement player IMO.

I don't see you actually suggesting a plan to help develop him you just giving your opinion on him as a player which is a take for most people who don't care for him. I don't see how it does him any good to ride on the bench (especially for replacement level players that are on contract years). However playing time is the most important right now, so if that means he actually gets legit playing time down in the G-league so be it.

This take 2 shots and if he misses he gets taken out while other guys can miss 14 shots without penalty is ridiculous.

I mean I agree mostly with what you're saying but you're acting as if Fiz and everyone who doesn't share a totally optimistic/victim mentality for Frank is personally against him. I don't think Fiz has a personal vendetta towards Frank. He's said nothing but positive things about the kid to the media when asked. He's yet to string honestly like 3 good games together frankly. And to be also quite frank, most players have improved since Fiz has come on board and if they haven't improved overall they've improved at least some parts of their game. So, to me, it seems like more of a Frank problem than a Fiz problem who everyone loves to blame for pretty much everything on here... But what it comes down to is Frank just hasn't produced consistently in any capacity outside of defense this year. And when he has produced offensively it's been mostly jumpers so, it's not like he's produced anything that seems mostly sustainable. And while you're complaining about others going unchecked for missing shots at least they are being aggressive and trying to help the cause offensively. Timmy can be frustrating but he has, in the past, at least strung together multiple good games in a row and he is playing a position where we do not have a lot of depth right now so I don't really see where his minutes would go outside of giving Frank more wing minutes which most people here hated to begin with And Mudiay who i'm guessing is part of your "chuck unchecked" crew has been our best passer by far this year and most willing to break down the D and make something happen so he's doing things to help others. And even his defense, at times, has looked decent.

To me, Fiz has given Frank every chance to take the job by the horns and he just hasn't and it seems the only way Frank ever responds is when he's benched or has his minutes cut and has to prove himself again. We saw it after the initial benching, he then came out with 2 of his best games (again mostly jumpers but at least the aggression to take those shots was there). A lot of the criticism of Fiz seems to be his in-game strategy is lacking... I don't necessarily agree with that, but that aside, I actually think DHO's would really benefit Frank and he hasn't really been able to do anything with them and when he doesn't have the ball he looks like a lost puppy. He's not making himself an active spot up option, he never cuts or makes himself available. I just don't really know what to do with him. I think the G-League could help but it's not going to help him flesh out most of his issues offensively except for maybe getting a little more free reign with the ball in his hands, but I don't even think that's a realistic pathway to success at the NBA level anyway for Frank... For confidence issues sure send him to the G-League and maybe just having that confidence will help his other areas of his offensive game. I could see that. I also would either not play Burke anymore, trade him or cut him and give those mins. to Frank exclusively. IDK i'm really lost on what to do with him. He's been really disappointing/concerning this year on multiple fronts.

What I think you and some people are missing is everyone develops differently and at a different pace. This you eat what you kill mantra doesn't work for everyone. Maybe it strikes a cord with a guy soon to be out of the league or a soon to be free agent trying to secure his next paycheck but its bad coaching if you treat everyone the same.

Just like a teacher generically can't teach all her kids the same...every learns differently at a different pace and the best teachers connect to each students (in this case player individually). Fiz seems to be doing a "whats generically right for the team". But Frank is a foreign player with a "team" mindset. Under normal circumstances players get reeled in due to bad shot selection or poor defense. Fizdale has yet to bench one player for either this season. Yet he takes guys out for a lack of aggression offensively. Maybe that doesn't work for everyone? Has this "great" coach thought of that.

He makes the G-league out to be some kind of demotion when the only one truly destroying his confidence is Fizdale. Yanking him out as a starter after the team was playing fairly well after a little bit of up a bump...how does that help confidence? Then he completely yanks him out of the rotation? Then he puts him back for a few games...now he back out of the rotaiton.

Honestly, fiz is throwing sh*t up against a wall and hope it sticks which is horrible coaching if you ask me. THjr and Burke have been struggling for a month but Frank is the only one that gets yanked out for "struggling" when he actually contributes in other ends unlike guys like THjr, Burke, Kanter who don't play any defense.

I don't want this to be excuse making for Frank because he has his own sh*t to work on especially with his jumper. But Fizdale has been doing him no favors. Because its almost like fizdale wants him to play like Mudiay or Burke...when why the f*ck would we want that. I don't want frank taking 15 shots a game. He is a team player and when we add offensive talent that will be much more appreciated. Fizdale has created a worry about getting mine environment which is horrible IMO. Only good thing it has resulted in a lot of losing! Which is the only good thing.

[GONYK]

Read on Twitter

Fiz not communicating

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

Fiz not communicating

in a development year Fiz seems to be pretty clueless in terms of communicating to his players. If he was planning on using Burke (which he clearly was). Why in the world wouldn't he communicate that to his players?

Seems like he has literally no direction or idea what he is doing going by a game by game basis instead of looking at the totality of what he is doing...

[mpharris36]

with a certain amount of minutes as a basis:

one of our only positive ratings 2-man lineups is Frank and Dotson.

Our best 3-man lineup is Frank, Dotson, and Mitch

our best 4-man lineup is Frank, Dotson, THjr, and Mitch

so regardless of how **** people say frank is playing he still effects the game when he is playing well...so why wouldn't it be of the upmost important by the front office and coaching staff to see this and make sure they are doing everything to get him right?

There is enough date to prove we play well when Frank plays well...there is enough data to suggest we don't play well even when someone players play well.

That is enough data for Fiz to wake up?

[Greenie]

Accountability only applies to year one or two players when it comes to fizdale...but Tina jr...nah let him kill the team every possession. That’s why we don’t Fock with coach Flat

I don’t know if I agree. Didn’t Trey get benched?

[Greenie]

Read on Twitter

Fiz not communicating

I don’t believe that. He knew it was coming. We all did.

[god shammgod]

i said something similar in another thread but we should be eliminating minutes for some guys now. the front office should be thinking about cutting some guys if we can't trade them. burke and mario obviously have no future here. giving either guy minutes at the expense of someone else is wrong at this point. if you won't just bench them, let them go.

[mpharris36]

i said something similar in another thread but we should be eliminating minuted for some guys now. the front office should be thinking about cutting some guys if we can't trade them. burke and mario obviously have no future here. giving either guy minutes at the expense of someone else is wrong at this point. if you won't just bench them, let them go.

I don't even mind setting up a plan. It doesn't have to happen today. But the FO and Flat should sit down and have a plan. After the roadtrip we make roster decisions to cut deadweight. After the 6 game road trip we would have played 41 games (half our schedule). After that point the roster gluts whether via trade or release should happen already. You will most likely 9-32 or 10-31 at that point. Everything should be done for future development. Stop with this "everyone gets a look" BS...its about halfway through the year now stop BS'ing us with this sh*t.

[BLACKFEET 2010]

It really doesn’t make sense the way they’re dealing with him. If we are star hunting he makes perfect sense as the pg of the future and his development should be a big part of what we’re doing. I’m saying, if we somehow win the summer and get Zion AND KD, along with KP healthy and Knox/Mitch/Zo rounding things out, we NEED a guy who’s not gonna be shot hungry. I get he’s not making shots but how’s he gonna start getting that confidence without playing?

I’m not one of these guys that calls Fiz a bozo becuz he doesn’t play my favorite guy enough. I actually think he has a pretty good handle on this collection of players all things considered. The thing is whatever they’re doing with Frank seems deliberate; no news flash there because there is obvious simpatico with Fiz and the FO.

So ok. Are we hiding him? Is there a trade already set up or something and we don’t want to break him? Are we showcasing the other guys for trades? Possibly. But I don’t get the feeling they view Mud as a passer by here.

And I get it to a degree but ok. Go with Mud then. Just make a decision because it doesn’t help his value I don’t think if he can’t get burn on THIS team. If we woulda been a little quicker on the draw I think we coulda got something better for Wily as soon as we traded for Enes. I will not be pleased if Frank is traded for cap space unless it’s a (high enough) pick coming back too.

And I’ll be furious if they end up moving him for second round picks.

I do like that he cut his hair.

[Jose7]

Fiz And time and Tim can go away forever....want to talk about struggling? What about someone completely sabotaging an offense but fiz just playing favorites clearly. No accountability.

[spree2kawhi]

with a certain amount of minutes as a basis:

one of our only positive ratings 2-man lineups is Frank and Dotson.

Our best 3-man lineup is Frank, Dotson, and Mitch

our best 4-man lineup is Frank, Dotson, THjr, and Mitch

so regardless of how **** people say frank is playing he still effects the game when he is playing well...so why wouldn't it be of the upmost important by the front office and coaching staff to see this and make sure they are doing everything to get him right?

There is enough date to prove we play well when Frank plays well...there is enough data to suggest we don't play well even when someone players play well.

That is enough data for Fiz to wake up?

Maybe you should tell him to take that for data. I agree with you.

[Knicksfan1992]

I don't see you actually suggesting a plan to help develop him you just giving your opinion on him as a player which is a take for most people who don't care for him. I don't see how it does him any good to ride on the bench (especially for replacement level players that are on contract years). However playing time is the most important right now, so if that means he actually gets legit playing time down in the G-league so be it.

This take 2 shots and if he misses he gets taken out while other guys can miss 14 shots without penalty is ridiculous.

I mean I agree mostly with what you're saying but you're acting as if Fiz and everyone who doesn't share a totally optimistic/victim mentality for Frank is personally against him. I don't think Fiz has a personal vendetta towards Frank. He's said nothing but positive things about the kid to the media when asked. He's yet to string honestly like 3 good games together frankly. And to be also quite frank, most players have improved since Fiz has come on board and if they haven't improved overall they've improved at least some parts of their game. So, to me, it seems like more of a Frank problem than a Fiz problem who everyone loves to blame for pretty much everything on here... But what it comes down to is Frank just hasn't produced consistently in any capacity outside of defense this year. And when he has produced offensively it's been mostly jumpers so, it's not like he's produced anything that seems mostly sustainable. And while you're complaining about others going unchecked for missing shots at least they are being aggressive and trying to help the cause offensively. Timmy can be frustrating but he has, in the past, at least strung together multiple good games in a row and he is playing a position where we do not have a lot of depth right now so I don't really see where his minutes would go outside of giving Frank more wing minutes which most people here hated to begin with And Mudiay who i'm guessing is part of your "chuck unchecked" crew has been our best passer by far this year and most willing to break down the D and make something happen so he's doing things to help others. And even his defense, at times, has looked decent.

To me, Fiz has given Frank every chance to take the job by the horns and he just hasn't and it seems the only way Frank ever responds is when he's benched or has his minutes cut and has to prove himself again. We saw it after the initial benching, he then came out with 2 of his best games (again mostly jumpers but at least the aggression to take those shots was there). A lot of the criticism of Fiz seems to be his in-game strategy is lacking... I don't necessarily agree with that, but that aside, I actually think DHO's would really benefit Frank and he hasn't really been able to do anything with them and when he doesn't have the ball he looks like a lost puppy. He's not making himself an active spot up option, he never cuts or makes himself available. I just don't really know what to do with him. I think the G-League could help but it's not going to help him flesh out most of his issues offensively except for maybe getting a little more free reign with the ball in his hands, but I don't even think that's a realistic pathway to success at the NBA level anyway for Frank... For confidence issues sure send him to the G-League and maybe just having that confidence will help his other areas of his offensive game. I could see that. I also would either not play Burke anymore, trade him or cut him and give those mins. to Frank exclusively. IDK i'm really lost on what to do with him. He's been really disappointing/concerning this year on multiple fronts.

What I think you and some people are missing is everyone develops differently and at a different pace. This you eat what you kill mantra doesn't work for everyone. Maybe it strikes a cord with a guy soon to be out of the league or a soon to be free agent trying to secure his next paycheck but its bad coaching if you treat everyone the same.

Just like a teacher generically can't teach all her kids the same...every learns differently at a different pace and the best teachers connect to each students (in this case player individually). Fiz seems to be doing a "whats generically right for the team". But Frank is a foreign player with a "team" mindset. Under normal circumstances players get reeled in due to bad shot selection or poor defense. Fizdale has yet to bench one player for either this season. Yet he takes guys out for a lack of aggression offensively. Maybe that doesn't work for everyone? Has this "great" coach thought of that.

He makes the G-league out to be some kind of demotion when the only one truly destroying his confidence is Fizdale. Yanking him out as a starter after the team was playing fairly well after a little bit of up a bump...how does that help confidence? Then he completely yanks him out of the rotation? Then he puts him back for a few games...now he back out of the rotaiton.

Honestly, fiz is throwing sh*t up against a wall and hope it sticks which is horrible coaching if you ask me. THjr and Burke have been struggling for a month but Frank is the only one that gets yanked out for "struggling" when he actually contributes in other ends unlike guys like THjr, Burke, Kanter who don't play any defense.

I don't want this to be excuse making for Frank because he has his own sh*t to work on especially with his jumper. But Fizdale has been doing him no favors. Because its almost like fizdale wants him to play like Mudiay or Burke...when why the f*ck would we want that. I don't want frank taking 15 shots a game. He is a team player and when we add offensive talent that will be much more appreciated. Fizdale has created a worry about getting mine environment which is horrible IMO. Only good thing it has resulted in a lot of losing! Which is the only good thing.

I get what you're saying and I totally agree that Fiz needs to do a better job of getting Frank consistent minutes. I don't agree however with this idea that Fiz has created this culture of get my numbers and forget about everything else. I think that's more of a product of the players he's been given. Hardaway has always been score first and before he had his stinker on XMas he was doing a much better job of being selective in his shots and actually looking to set others up. Burke has always been score first. Enes as well. Trier too. Knox too. See where I'm going.... Just not a lot of guys who look to set others up naturally and I think running mainly DHO's is actually helpful to help alleviate that because it gets guys on the move and defenders on the move which helps making reads and passes out of that action much easier for our guys.

I don't think Fiz is benching Frank based on the fact that he passes too much. Firstly because it's inaccurate. He's not passing any more, statistically, than most of the other guards. He's 4th on the team in potential assists. He's 6th on the team in passes made per game and 4th on the team in passes received... So, this idea that Frank is being frozen out or isn't getting the ball enough isn't really backed up by anything statistically substantial... It's more the nature in which he's passing and passing up shots. He's being unselfish, by not shooting or attacking, to a point where it's detrimental to the team as a whole especially since he is actually a good passer when he's going towards the basket.

Again blaming Fiz, to me, seems faulty because he has honestly tried almost everything to get something out of Frank and Frank hasn't responded to anything offensively for more than 1 or 2 games. He tried him at the wing and Frank was invisible there. He then handed the reigns over as a pg and he had a nice string of games until he started to revert into his bad habits again. Then that eventually led to his benching when he came out and it looked like all was fixed and then again reversion to bad habits which led to another benching.

Look Fiz is not perfect... but I understand where he's coming from when you've got this clearly talented kid who just doesn;t seem like he wants to put that talent to any useful use on the basketball court. It;s gotta be frustrating as hell to see other be aggressive in their roles and be given freedom to express themselves offensively and then Frank just not taking the same hold of that opportunity. Can Fiz do better absolutely. I don't think benching him again on XMas was smart, but I understand where he's coming from.

[mpharris36]

I mean I agree mostly with what you're saying but you're acting as if Fiz and everyone who doesn't share a totally optimistic/victim mentality for Frank is personally against him. I don't think Fiz has a personal vendetta towards Frank. He's said nothing but positive things about the kid to the media when asked. He's yet to string honestly like 3 good games together frankly. And to be also quite frank, most players have improved since Fiz has come on board and if they haven't improved overall they've improved at least some parts of their game. So, to me, it seems like more of a Frank problem than a Fiz problem who everyone loves to blame for pretty much everything on here... But what it comes down to is Frank just hasn't produced consistently in any capacity outside of defense this year. And when he has produced offensively it's been mostly jumpers so, it's not like he's produced anything that seems mostly sustainable. And while you're complaining about others going unchecked for missing shots at least they are being aggressive and trying to help the cause offensively. Timmy can be frustrating but he has, in the past, at least strung together multiple good games in a row and he is playing a position where we do not have a lot of depth right now so I don't really see where his minutes would go outside of giving Frank more wing minutes which most people here hated to begin with And Mudiay who i'm guessing is part of your "chuck unchecked" crew has been our best passer by far this year and most willing to break down the D and make something happen so he's doing things to help others. And even his defense, at times, has looked decent.

To me, Fiz has given Frank every chance to take the job by the horns and he just hasn't and it seems the only way Frank ever responds is when he's benched or has his minutes cut and has to prove himself again. We saw it after the initial benching, he then came out with 2 of his best games (again mostly jumpers but at least the aggression to take those shots was there). A lot of the criticism of Fiz seems to be his in-game strategy is lacking... I don't necessarily agree with that, but that aside, I actually think DHO's would really benefit Frank and he hasn't really been able to do anything with them and when he doesn't have the ball he looks like a lost puppy. He's not making himself an active spot up option, he never cuts or makes himself available. I just don't really know what to do with him. I think the G-League could help but it's not going to help him flesh out most of his issues offensively except for maybe getting a little more free reign with the ball in his hands, but I don't even think that's a realistic pathway to success at the NBA level anyway for Frank... For confidence issues sure send him to the G-League and maybe just having that confidence will help his other areas of his offensive game. I could see that. I also would either not play Burke anymore, trade him or cut him and give those mins. to Frank exclusively. IDK i'm really lost on what to do with him. He's been really disappointing/concerning this year on multiple fronts.

What I think you and some people are missing is everyone develops differently and at a different pace. This you eat what you kill mantra doesn't work for everyone. Maybe it strikes a cord with a guy soon to be out of the league or a soon to be free agent trying to secure his next paycheck but its bad coaching if you treat everyone the same.

Just like a teacher generically can't teach all her kids the same...every learns differently at a different pace and the best teachers connect to each students (in this case player individually). Fiz seems to be doing a "whats generically right for the team". But Frank is a foreign player with a "team" mindset. Under normal circumstances players get reeled in due to bad shot selection or poor defense. Fizdale has yet to bench one player for either this season. Yet he takes guys out for a lack of aggression offensively. Maybe that doesn't work for everyone? Has this "great" coach thought of that.

He makes the G-league out to be some kind of demotion when the only one truly destroying his confidence is Fizdale. Yanking him out as a starter after the team was playing fairly well after a little bit of up a bump...how does that help confidence? Then he completely yanks him out of the rotation? Then he puts him back for a few games...now he back out of the rotaiton.

Honestly, fiz is throwing sh*t up against a wall and hope it sticks which is horrible coaching if you ask me. THjr and Burke have been struggling for a month but Frank is the only one that gets yanked out for "struggling" when he actually contributes in other ends unlike guys like THjr, Burke, Kanter who don't play any defense.

I don't want this to be excuse making for Frank because he has his own sh*t to work on especially with his jumper. But Fizdale has been doing him no favors. Because its almost like fizdale wants him to play like Mudiay or Burke...when why the f*ck would we want that. I don't want frank taking 15 shots a game. He is a team player and when we add offensive talent that will be much more appreciated. Fizdale has created a worry about getting mine environment which is horrible IMO. Only good thing it has resulted in a lot of losing! Which is the only good thing.

I get what you're saying and I totally agree that Fiz needs to do a better job of getting Frank consistent minutes. I don't agree however with this idea that Fiz has created this culture of get my numbers and forget about everything else. I think that's more of a product of the players he's been given. Hardaway has always been score first and before he had his stinker on XMas he was doing a much better job of being selective in his shots and actually looking to set others up. Burke has always been score first. Enes as well. Trier too. Knox too. See where I'm going.... Just not a lot of guys who look to set others up naturally and I think running mainly DHO's is actually helpful to help alleviate that because it gets guys on the move and defenders on the move which helps making reads and passes out of that action much easier for our guys.

I don't think Fiz is benching Frank based on the fact that he passes too much. Firstly because it's inaccurate. He's not passing any more, statistically, than most of the other guards. He's 4th on the team in potential assists. He's 6th on the team in passes made per game and 4th on the team in passes received... So, this idea that Frank is being frozen out or isn't getting the ball enough isn't really backed up by anything statistically substantial... It's more the nature in which he's passing and passing up shots. He's being unselfish, by not shooting or attacking, to a point where it's detrimental to the team as a whole especially since he is actually a good passer when he's going towards the basket.

Again blaming Fiz, to me, seems faulty because he has honestly tried almost everything to get something out of Frank and Frank hasn't responded to anything offensively for more than 1 or 2 games. He tried him at the wing and Frank was invisible there. He then handed the reigns over as a pg and he had a nice string of games until he started to revert into his bad habits again. Then that eventually led to his benching when he came out and it looked like all was fixed and then again reversion to bad habits which led to another benching.

Look Fiz is not perfect... but I understand where he's coming from when you've got this clearly talented kid who just doesn;t seem like he wants to put that talent to any useful use on the basketball court. It;s gotta be frustrating as hell to see other be aggressive in their roles and be given freedom to express themselves offensively and then Frank just not taking the same hold of that opportunity. Can Fiz do better absolutely. I don't think benching him again on XMas was smart, but I understand where he's coming from.

Yet he somehow is in almost every 2-3-4-5 man top rated unit on the team. So I don't get this he doesn't want to use his talent. He is struggling with confidence in his shooting right now and that is making him overthink sh*t. Its the same reason he looked great in the Charlotte game where he was stroking it from all over. What Fiz needs to do is reinforce that if your jumper isn't working we have enough confidence in you with the other aspects of your games (distributing...defense...ect). To warrant playing time because we think you are a good player.

The inconsistent minutes and in and out of the rotation while other guys who are struggling to shoot just as much is confusing the sh*t out of the kid. Even he said he wasn't aware he was going to get benched...that is simply horrible coaching and a lack of communication which a young team desperately needs.

Fiz isn't all doom and gloom, I like a few things he is doing...but he is totally botching franks development right now.

[Clyde_Style]

with a certain amount of minutes as a basis:

one of our only positive ratings 2-man lineups is Frank and Dotson.

Our best 3-man lineup is Frank, Dotson, and Mitch

our best 4-man lineup is Frank, Dotson, THjr, and Mitch

so regardless of how **** people say frank is playing he still effects the game when he is playing well...so why wouldn't it be of the upmost important by the front office and coaching staff to see this and make sure they are doing everything to get him right?

There is enough date to prove we play well when Frank plays well...there is enough data to suggest we don't play well even when someone players play well.

That is enough data for Fiz to wake up?

I got tired of pointing out the team has historically played better with Frank on the floor. It doesn't matter to some people though so I gave up.

[Knicksfan1992]

What I think you and some people are missing is everyone develops differently and at a different pace. This you eat what you kill mantra doesn't work for everyone. Maybe it strikes a cord with a guy soon to be out of the league or a soon to be free agent trying to secure his next paycheck but its bad coaching if you treat everyone the same.

Just like a teacher generically can't teach all her kids the same...every learns differently at a different pace and the best teachers connect to each students (in this case player individually). Fiz seems to be doing a "whats generically right for the team". But Frank is a foreign player with a "team" mindset. Under normal circumstances players get reeled in due to bad shot selection or poor defense. Fizdale has yet to bench one player for either this season. Yet he takes guys out for a lack of aggression offensively. Maybe that doesn't work for everyone? Has this "great" coach thought of that.

He makes the G-league out to be some kind of demotion when the only one truly destroying his confidence is Fizdale. Yanking him out as a starter after the team was playing fairly well after a little bit of up a bump...how does that help confidence? Then he completely yanks him out of the rotation? Then he puts him back for a few games...now he back out of the rotaiton.

Honestly, fiz is throwing sh*t up against a wall and hope it sticks which is horrible coaching if you ask me. THjr and Burke have been struggling for a month but Frank is the only one that gets yanked out for "struggling" when he actually contributes in other ends unlike guys like THjr, Burke, Kanter who don't play any defense.

I don't want this to be excuse making for Frank because he has his own sh*t to work on especially with his jumper. But Fizdale has been doing him no favors. Because its almost like fizdale wants him to play like Mudiay or Burke...when why the f*ck would we want that. I don't want frank taking 15 shots a game. He is a team player and when we add offensive talent that will be much more appreciated. Fizdale has created a worry about getting mine environment which is horrible IMO. Only good thing it has resulted in a lot of losing! Which is the only good thing.

I get what you're saying and I totally agree that Fiz needs to do a better job of getting Frank consistent minutes. I don't agree however with this idea that Fiz has created this culture of get my numbers and forget about everything else. I think that's more of a product of the players he's been given. Hardaway has always been score first and before he had his stinker on XMas he was doing a much better job of being selective in his shots and actually looking to set others up. Burke has always been score first. Enes as well. Trier too. Knox too. See where I'm going.... Just not a lot of guys who look to set others up naturally and I think running mainly DHO's is actually helpful to help alleviate that because it gets guys on the move and defenders on the move which helps making reads and passes out of that action much easier for our guys.

I don't think Fiz is benching Frank based on the fact that he passes too much. Firstly because it's inaccurate. He's not passing any more, statistically, than most of the other guards. He's 4th on the team in potential assists. He's 6th on the team in passes made per game and 4th on the team in passes received... So, this idea that Frank is being frozen out or isn't getting the ball enough isn't really backed up by anything statistically substantial... It's more the nature in which he's passing and passing up shots. He's being unselfish, by not shooting or attacking, to a point where it's detrimental to the team as a whole especially since he is actually a good passer when he's going towards the basket.

Again blaming Fiz, to me, seems faulty because he has honestly tried almost everything to get something out of Frank and Frank hasn't responded to anything offensively for more than 1 or 2 games. He tried him at the wing and Frank was invisible there. He then handed the reigns over as a pg and he had a nice string of games until he started to revert into his bad habits again. Then that eventually led to his benching when he came out and it looked like all was fixed and then again reversion to bad habits which led to another benching.

Look Fiz is not perfect... but I understand where he's coming from when you've got this clearly talented kid who just doesn;t seem like he wants to put that talent to any useful use on the basketball court. It;s gotta be frustrating as hell to see other be aggressive in their roles and be given freedom to express themselves offensively and then Frank just not taking the same hold of that opportunity. Can Fiz do better absolutely. I don't think benching him again on XMas was smart, but I understand where he's coming from.

Yet he somehow is in almost every 2-3-4-5 man top rated unit on the team. So I don't get this he doesn't want to use his talent. He is struggling with confidence in his shooting right now and that is making him overthink sh*t. Its the same reason he looked great in the Charlotte game where he was stroking it from all over. What Fiz needs to do is reinforce that if your jumper isn't working we have enough confidence in you with the other aspects of your games (distributing...defense...ect). To warrant playing time because we think you are a good player.

The inconsistent minutes and in and out of the rotation while other guys who are struggling to shoot just as much is confusing the sh*t out of the kid. Even he said he wasn't aware he was going to get benched...that is simply horrible coaching and a lack of communication which a young team desperately needs.

Fiz isn't all doom and gloom, I like a few things he is doing...but he is totally botching franks development right now.

I mean we can go back and forth all day on it.. you're right on a lot of points but I think you're overly optimistic that Frank would be doing things different with more minutes. I'm just not totally there yet. I don't want it to be misconstrued either... I'm not totally anti-Frank. I just don't see PG in him and never really saw the high ceiling that others saw. I still think he can be a good player in time, but by that I mean like 4th-6th best player on a contending team with limited duty on offense. Something like Avery Bradley. Just so we're straight on that because I know my posts can come off as negative. I'm actually really only replying because I'm confused where you got your numbers.... NBA.com says our best 2 man unit net rating wise with at least 200 minutes is Vonleh/Trier with a + 7.3. Frank/Dot is 4th with a - 0.4

[Clyde_Style]

i said something similar in another thread but we should be eliminating minuted for some guys now. the front office should be thinking about cutting some guys if we can't trade them. burke and mario obviously have no future here. giving either guy minutes at the expense of someone else is wrong at this point. if you won't just bench them, let them go.

I don't even mind setting up a plan. It doesn't have to happen today. But the FO and Flat should sit down and have a plan. After the roadtrip we make roster decisions to cut deadweight. After the 6 game road trip we would have played 41 games (half our schedule). After that point the roster gluts whether via trade or release should happen already. You will most likely 9-32 or 10-31 at that point. Everything should be done for future development. Stop with this "everyone gets a look" BS...its about halfway through the year now stop BS'ing us with this sh*t.

I gave Fiz more time than almost everyone here before arriving at my conclusions. That time has passed. They need to take stock NOW and do what you're saying. Put Tim on IR, slash Kanter's minutes in half, play Dot and Frank, bench Mario, etc. This X-Mas Day stunt DNP with Frank's parents in from France was the straw that broke this camel's back. Fiz has effectively gone back on every mantra he pushed to begin the season and there will be no consistent defensive effort with the line-ups he's playing nor any implementation of offensive sets if he can't settle on playing the young guys and letting them breathe FFS.

[mpharris36]

I get what you're saying and I totally agree that Fiz needs to do a better job of getting Frank consistent minutes. I don't agree however with this idea that Fiz has created this culture of get my numbers and forget about everything else. I think that's more of a product of the players he's been given. Hardaway has always been score first and before he had his stinker on XMas he was doing a much better job of being selective in his shots and actually looking to set others up. Burke has always been score first. Enes as well. Trier too. Knox too. See where I'm going.... Just not a lot of guys who look to set others up naturally and I think running mainly DHO's is actually helpful to help alleviate that because it gets guys on the move and defenders on the move which helps making reads and passes out of that action much easier for our guys.

I don't think Fiz is benching Frank based on the fact that he passes too much. Firstly because it's inaccurate. He's not passing any more, statistically, than most of the other guards. He's 4th on the team in potential assists. He's 6th on the team in passes made per game and 4th on the team in passes received... So, this idea that Frank is being frozen out or isn't getting the ball enough isn't really backed up by anything statistically substantial... It's more the nature in which he's passing and passing up shots. He's being unselfish, by not shooting or attacking, to a point where it's detrimental to the team as a whole especially since he is actually a good passer when he's going towards the basket.

Again blaming Fiz, to me, seems faulty because he has honestly tried almost everything to get something out of Frank and Frank hasn't responded to anything offensively for more than 1 or 2 games. He tried him at the wing and Frank was invisible there. He then handed the reigns over as a pg and he had a nice string of games until he started to revert into his bad habits again. Then that eventually led to his benching when he came out and it looked like all was fixed and then again reversion to bad habits which led to another benching.

Look Fiz is not perfect... but I understand where he's coming from when you've got this clearly talented kid who just doesn;t seem like he wants to put that talent to any useful use on the basketball court. It;s gotta be frustrating as hell to see other be aggressive in their roles and be given freedom to express themselves offensively and then Frank just not taking the same hold of that opportunity. Can Fiz do better absolutely. I don't think benching him again on XMas was smart, but I understand where he's coming from.

Yet he somehow is in almost every 2-3-4-5 man top rated unit on the team. So I don't get this he doesn't want to use his talent. He is struggling with confidence in his shooting right now and that is making him overthink sh*t. Its the same reason he looked great in the Charlotte game where he was stroking it from all over. What Fiz needs to do is reinforce that if your jumper isn't working we have enough confidence in you with the other aspects of your games (distributing...defense...ect). To warrant playing time because we think you are a good player.

The inconsistent minutes and in and out of the rotation while other guys who are struggling to shoot just as much is confusing the sh*t out of the kid. Even he said he wasn't aware he was going to get benched...that is simply horrible coaching and a lack of communication which a young team desperately needs.

Fiz isn't all doom and gloom, I like a few things he is doing...but he is totally botching franks development right now.

I mean we can go back and forth all day on it.. you're right on a lot of points but I think you're overly optimistic that Frank would be doing things different with more minutes. I'm just not totally there yet. I don't want it to be misconstrued either... I'm not totally anti-Frank. I just don't see PG in him and never really saw the high ceiling that others saw. I still think he can be a good player in time, but by that I mean like 4th-6th best player on a contending team with limited duty on offense. Something like Avery Bradley. Just so we're straight on that because I know my posts can come off as negative. I'm actually really only replying because I'm confused where you got your numbers.... NBA.com says our best 2 man unit net rating wise with at least 200 minutes is Vonleh/Trier with a + 7.3. Frank/Dot is 4th with a - 0.4

thats why I said he is almost near the top in every 2-3-4-5 man lineup...

my point is I just don't see the focus and development on the kid. If that means the d-league then that means the d-league. THat is no knock. Plenty of good players have spent on the dleague...but this in and out of the lineup clearly doesn't help confidence. Just come up with a clear plan.

But don't tell me you yanked him when he is struggling with THjr/Burke have the green light and they aren't struggling? Where is the consistency?