Trade Ideas, AKA Please God Bring Us Shooters

[Pillendreher]

He has been a much better shooter in the past than he is right now.

That's a dangerous way to think about players, especially young ones, though. He's probably better than 25.7 % from 3, but so far we don't really know wether he can shoot or not. He has no real midrange game to speak off (the only season he took more than one 15 footer per game was Durant's last season with us) and he has been very up and down with his 3. His first three seasons kinda look like Grant's with us: He shot a good % on very low volume in his first year, then fell off a cliff next season, then suddenly got way better on higher volume and now he's beyond terrible from 3. And finally, he's a 70 % FT shooter, so it's not looking good there either.

Finally, he's also a guy who needs to get paid next summer. Would you consider him as a "stopgap"?

[ThunderBolt]

He has been a much better shooter in the past than he is right now.

That's a dangerous way to think about players, especially young ones, though. He's probably better than 25.7 % from 3, but so far we don't really know wether he can shoot or not. He has no real midrange game to speak off (the only season he took more than one 15 footer per game was Durant's last season with us) and he has been very up and down with his 3. His first three seasons kinda look like Grant's with us: He shot a good % on very low volume in his first year, then fell off a cliff next season, then suddenly got way better on higher volume and now he's beyond terrible from 3. And finally, he's a 70 % FT shooter, so it's not looking good there either.

Finally, he's also a guy who needs to get paid next summer. Would you consider him as a "stopgap"?

He’s far from ideal but I can’t realistically think of someone we can get with our lack of assets that’s more of a sure thing. What I think is the most realistic of best case scenarios is you get a guy like lyles for cheap. He plays well enough but not too well to re-sign in the summer on a good contract and then makes a jump forward the following season.Give is a little offense with the second unit and hit a better clip from three. Is that likely? Probably not but that’s the kind of thing that has to happen for us to fix our issues.

Maybe it’s Lyles, Bobby Portis or some other non sexy name. I don’t think we can get Beal. I don’t think we want to pay porter. Maybe a Fournier for Schroder deal could happen but I don’t expect it midseason.

[ThunderBolt]

I guess I look at this differently than most. Some of the players I suggest I don't even necessary love what they currently are as players. I just think we have to get lucky to compete. Money and assets are an issue. A logical path towards a championship seems impossible.

One of the issues that we seem unable to overcome is getting very good role players on favorable contract. Guys like Adams, Grant and Roberson are good players but we've none of them are significantly outplaying their contracts. When signed most of us were probably more concerned at the price paid than we were happy to retain them.

I'll give the warriors credit for finding Draymond but truth serum would probably reveal they didn't expect him to be one of the best defensive players in the league. They also got lucky with Curry's contract. The 76ers were able to have a 26 year old Robert Covington become one of the best role players in the NBA. The Bucks have had Khris Middleton on a good contract.

So who is our guy that is going to outperform his contract? Abrines? I'm losing hope. Ferguson or Diallo? Possibly but the timing of their development likely doesn't coincide with Russ. That's why I think one of the things we should consider is guys who have flashes but lack consistency. I think a lot of those type players are "empy stat" type of guys but still young enough to get better. I'm also against the notion that players around 22-24 dont get better. By that time its likely known if they will be a star or not but there is still room to grow. Am I wrong about Lyles? Probably.

[Dadouv47]

I guess I look at this differently than most. Some of the players I suggest I don't even necessary love what they currently are as players. I just think we have to get lucky to compete. Money and assets are an issue. A logical path towards a championship seems impossible.

One of the issues that we seem unable to overcome is getting very good role players on favorable contract. Guys like Adams, Grant and Roberson are good players but we've none of them are significantly outplaying their contracts. When signed most of us were probably more concerned at the price paid than we were happy to retain them.

I'll give the warriors credit for finding Draymond but truth serum would probably reveal they didn't expect him to be one of the best defensive players in the league. They also got lucky with Curry's contract. The 76ers were able to have a 26 year old Robert Covington become one of the best role players in the NBA. The Bucks have had Khris Middleton on a good contract.

So who is our guy that is going to outperform his contract? Abrines? I'm losing hope. Ferguson or Diallo? Possibly but the timing of their development likely doesn't coincide with Russ. That's why I think one of the things we should consider is guys who have flashes but lack consistency. I think a lot of those type players are "empy stat" type of guys but still young enough to get better. I'm also against the notion that players around 22-24 dont get better. By that time its likely known if they will be a star or not but there is still room to grow. Am I wrong about Lyles? Probably.

Small sample (30 games) but for me Grant is clearly outperforming his contract. He has been really good and a legit PF starter. I think he's the only one (with Ferguson and Diallo but as you said the timing of their developement doesn't coincide with the timing we have to contend).

Roberson was outperforming before his injury too

[Pillendreher]

I guess I look at this differently than most. Some of the players I suggest I don't even necessary love what they currently are as players. I just think we have to get lucky to compete. Money and assets are an issue. A logical path towards a championship seems impossible.

One of the issues that we seem unable to overcome is getting very good role players on favorable contract. Guys like Adams, Grant and Roberson are good players but we've none of them are significantly outplaying their contracts. When signed most of us were probably more concerned at the price paid than we were happy to retain them.

I'll give the warriors credit for finding Draymond but truth serum would probably reveal they didn't expect him to be one of the best defensive players in the league. They also got lucky with Curry's contract. The 76ers were able to have a 26 year old Robert Covington become one of the best role players in the NBA. The Bucks have had Khris Middleton on a good contract.

So who is our guy that is going to outperform his contract? Abrines? I'm losing hope. Ferguson or Diallo? Possibly but the timing of their development likely doesn't coincide with Russ. That's why I think one of the things we should consider is guys who have flashes but lack consistency. I think a lot of those type players are "empy stat" type of guys but still young enough to get better. I'm also against the notion that players around 22-24 dont get better. By that time its likely known if they will be a star or not but there is still room to grow. Am I wrong about Lyles? Probably.

I don't mind your approach at all. As long as they don't go for the "splashy transaction", the only thing they can do is work around the edges.

[Mattv]

Not the best trade for Okc but I think Abrines and p.pat has to go.
Okc Nets and Phoenix
Okc gets Jared Dudley,Rodions Kurucs and Elie Okobo.
Nets get Warren Abrines and Bender.
Suns get D'Angelo Russell Paterson and Nader.








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[ThunderBolt]

Not the best trade for Okc but I think Abrines and p.pat has to go.
Okc Nets and Phoenix
Okc gets Jared Dudley,Rodions Kurucs and Elie Okobo.
Nets get Warren Abrines and Bender.
Suns get D'Angelo Russell Paterson and Nader.



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I think thats very favorable for okc. I think the Nets are high on Kurucs. I haven't kept up much with Okobo so i cant speak to him. However two rookie contracts for two underachievers? yes please.

[Dn4sty]

Not the best trade for Okc but I think Abrines and p.pat has to go.
Okc Nets and Phoenix
Okc gets Jared Dudley,Rodions Kurucs and Elie Okobo.
Nets get Warren Abrines and Bender.
Suns get D'Angelo Russell Paterson and Nader.



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I think thats very favorable for okc. I think the Nets are high on Kurucs. I haven't kept up much with Okobo so i cant speak to him. However two rookie contracts for two underachievers? yes please.

Yeah this is super favorable for OKC. The Nets say no immediately.

[Dn4sty]

I guess I look at this differently than most. Some of the players I suggest I don't even necessary love what they currently are as players. I just think we have to get lucky to compete. Money and assets are an issue. A logical path towards a championship seems impossible.

One of the issues that we seem unable to overcome is getting very good role players on favorable contract. Guys like Adams, Grant and Roberson are good players but we've none of them are significantly outplaying their contracts. When signed most of us were probably more concerned at the price paid than we were happy to retain them.

I'll give the warriors credit for finding Draymond but truth serum would probably reveal they didn't expect him to be one of the best defensive players in the league. They also got lucky with Curry's contract. The 76ers were able to have a 26 year old Robert Covington become one of the best role players in the NBA. The Bucks have had Khris Middleton on a good contract.

So who is our guy that is going to outperform his contract? Abrines? I'm losing hope. Ferguson or Diallo? Possibly but the timing of their development likely doesn't coincide with Russ. That's why I think one of the things we should consider is guys who have flashes but lack consistency. I think a lot of those type players are "empy stat" type of guys but still young enough to get better. I'm also against the notion that players around 22-24 dont get better. By that time its likely known if they will be a star or not but there is still room to grow. Am I wrong about Lyles? Probably.

I don't mind your approach at all. As long as they don't go for the "splashy transaction", the only thing they can do is work around the edges.

So who are some players that would possibly fit this criteria? These are just some possible ideas

Stanley Johnson
Furkan Korkmaz
Skal Labissiere
Trey Lyles
Deandre Bembry
Kris Dunn
Dragan Bender

[Mattv]

Not the best trade for Okc but I think Abrines and p.pat has to go.
Okc Nets and Phoenix
Okc gets Jared Dudley,Rodions Kurucs and Elie Okobo.
Nets get Warren Abrines and Bender.
Suns get D'Angelo Russell Paterson and Nader.



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I think thats very favorable for okc. I think the Nets are high on Kurucs. I haven't kept up much with Okobo so i cant speak to him. However two rookie contracts for two underachievers? yes please.

Yeah this is super favorable for OKC. The Nets say no immediately.

Yall are correct I didnt know Kurucs was playing so well I just seen 6"10 and remember from the draft that he was a shooter didnt know realize he is also playing well defensively and has a well rounded game.

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[getrichordie]

I guess I look at this differently than most. Some of the players I suggest I don't even necessary love what they currently are as players. I just think we have to get lucky to compete. Money and assets are an issue. A logical path towards a championship seems impossible.

One of the issues that we seem unable to overcome is getting very good role players on favorable contract. Guys like Adams, Grant and Roberson are good players but we've none of them are significantly outplaying their contracts. When signed most of us were probably more concerned at the price paid than we were happy to retain them.

I'll give the warriors credit for finding Draymond but truth serum would probably reveal they didn't expect him to be one of the best defensive players in the league. They also got lucky with Curry's contract. The 76ers were able to have a 26 year old Robert Covington become one of the best role players in the NBA. The Bucks have had Khris Middleton on a good contract.

So who is our guy that is going to outperform his contract? Abrines? I'm losing hope. Ferguson or Diallo? Possibly but the timing of their development likely doesn't coincide with Russ. That's why I think one of the things we should consider is guys who have flashes but lack consistency. I think a lot of those type players are "empy stat" type of guys but still young enough to get better. I'm also against the notion that players around 22-24 dont get better. By that time its likely known if they will be a star or not but there is still room to grow. Am I wrong about Lyles? Probably.

I don't mind your approach at all. As long as they don't go for the "splashy transaction", the only thing they can do is work around the edges.

So who are some players that would possibly fit this criteria? These are just some possible ideas

Stanley Johnson
Furkan Korkmaz
Skal Labissiere
Trey Lyles
Deandre Bembry
Kris Dunn
Dragan Bender

No to Bembry. We need someone who shoots free throws decently. At least around 75-80%. Bembry’s season best FT% is this year and it’s 60%. Ugh.

We need to find those who have shown signs of defensive potential and those who have shown signs of being able to knock down an open or minimally contested 3.

Ideally, they also shoot free throws decently, but I find that FT% correlates to 3P% and overall shooting numbers to some extent.

Bender checks a lot of boxes for me, but I don’t feel like posting all of the numbers that lead me to this explanation. If we were able to get Bender at the deadline, I would be thrilled as I think we can get a head start on maximizing his potential within the role we would want him to play for us.


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[ThunderBolt]

I guess I look at this differently than most. Some of the players I suggest I don't even necessary love what they currently are as players. I just think we have to get lucky to compete. Money and assets are an issue. A logical path towards a championship seems impossible.

One of the issues that we seem unable to overcome is getting very good role players on favorable contract. Guys like Adams, Grant and Roberson are good players but we've none of them are significantly outplaying their contracts. When signed most of us were probably more concerned at the price paid than we were happy to retain them.

I'll give the warriors credit for finding Draymond but truth serum would probably reveal they didn't expect him to be one of the best defensive players in the league. They also got lucky with Curry's contract. The 76ers were able to have a 26 year old Robert Covington become one of the best role players in the NBA. The Bucks have had Khris Middleton on a good contract.

So who is our guy that is going to outperform his contract? Abrines? I'm losing hope. Ferguson or Diallo? Possibly but the timing of their development likely doesn't coincide with Russ. That's why I think one of the things we should consider is guys who have flashes but lack consistency. I think a lot of those type players are "empy stat" type of guys but still young enough to get better. I'm also against the notion that players around 22-24 dont get better. By that time its likely known if they will be a star or not but there is still room to grow. Am I wrong about Lyles? Probably.

I don't mind your approach at all. As long as they don't go for the "splashy transaction", the only thing they can do is work around the edges.

So who are some players that would possibly fit this criteria? These are just some possible ideas

Stanley Johnson
Furkan Korkmaz
Skal Labissiere
Trey Lyles
Deandre Bembry
Kris Dunn
Dragan Bender

Maybe add Bobby Portis to that list. He sucks defensively and appears to be dumb as a post but he's a microwave scorer.

[getrichordie]

Spoiler:

I don't mind your approach at all. As long as they don't go for the "splashy transaction", the only thing they can do is work around the edges.

So who are some players that would possibly fit this criteria? These are just some possible ideas

Stanley Johnson
Furkan Korkmaz
Skal Labissiere
Trey Lyles
Deandre Bembry
Kris Dunn
Dragan Bender

Maybe add Bobby Portis to that list. He sucks defensively and appears to be dumb as a post but he's a microwave scorer.

Yes. Portis definitely needs to be on this list. Wouldn’t mind seeing him replace Noel. Having a a guy that can play the 5 and hit open 3s could be what we need. Stagger him and Adams. Just a thought.



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[Pillendreher]

Something to keep in mind with these "buy low targets": Is that something you trade for at the trade deadline? If you're looking to get better going into the postseason, don't you try to add proven guys?

[ThunderBolt]

Something to keep in mind with these "buy low targets": Is that something you trade for at the trade deadline? If you're looking to get better going into the postseason, don't you try to add proven guys?

Yeah probably added proven guys is better. I think that's why you hope that whoever you trade for his good enough to help but not so good that you can't keep them cheaply. Admittedly it sounds pretty far fetched but it feels like we've painted ourselves into a corner throwing around FRPs for guys like schroder and grant. (yes i know grant is playing well but we shouldn't have had to give a frp at the time to get him.)

[getrichordie]

Something to keep in mind with these "buy low targets": Is that something you trade for at the trade deadline? If you're looking to get better going into the postseason, don't you try to add proven guys?

That’s a very good question. I think it depends on how far removed from contention Presti thinks we actually are. I think another huge question is if the players we are bringing back fit with Russ, or more importantly, can Russ fit with them?

It seems to me right now, no one can decide what Russ is or isn’t. Do we build around new Russ or old Russ? I would argue new Russ.


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[getrichordie]

Something to keep in mind with these "buy low targets": Is that something you trade for at the trade deadline? If you're looking to get better going into the postseason, don't you try to add proven guys?

Yeah probably added proven guys is better. I think that's why you hope that whoever you trade for his good enough to help but not so good that you can't keep them cheaply. Admittedly it sounds pretty far fetched but it feels like we've painted ourselves into a corner throwing around FRPs for guys like schroder and grant. (yes i know grant is playing well but we shouldn't have had to give a frp at the time to get him.)

What were the protections that pick? Which pick was it?


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[Kizz Fastfists]

What were the protections that pick? Which pick was it?

2020 1st round pick, protected 1-20. It will likely fall in the protected range and become two 2nd round picks conveyed in 2022 and 2023. Orlando currently owns the pick.

2019- this draft, OKC owns their 1st round pick, but their 2nd is owned by the Hornets
2020- Orlando owns it, protected 1-20 as detailed above. OKC owns their 2nd
2021- OKC owns both picks
2022- Atlanta owns, protected 1-14. It will likely be in that range and Atlanta will instead get OKC's 2024 and 2025 second round picks. Second round pick is tied up via above trade
2023- OKC owns their first. Second it tied up until the 2020 draft order is known.
2024- OKC owns their first, and it is the earliest one they could currently trade. Second round pick is tied up until 2022 draft order is known.
2025- OKC owns their first and could trade it if they don't trade their 2024. Second round pick is tied up until 2022 draft order is known.

Basically, this means OKC can realistically trade their 2024 first round pick and 2020 second round pick. Everything else is either Stepien rule protected or tied up in other transactions.

[getrichordie]

What were the protections that pick? Which pick was it?

2020 1st round pick, protected 1-20. It will likely fall in the protected range and become two 2nd round picks conveyed in 2022 and 2023. Orlando currently owns the pick.

2019- this draft, OKC owns their 1st round pick, but their 2nd is owned by the Hornets
2020- Orlando owns it, protected 1-20 as detailed above. OKC owns their 2nd
2021- OKC owns both picks
2022- Atlanta owns, protected 1-14. It will likely be in that range and Atlanta will instead get OKC's 2024 and 2025 second round picks. Second round pick is tied up via above trade
2023- OKC owns their first. Second it tied up until the 2020 draft order is known.
2024- OKC owns their first, and it is the earliest one they could currently trade. Second round pick is tied up until 2022 draft order is known.
2025- OKC owns their first and could trade it if they don't trade their 2024. Second round pick is tied up until 2022 draft order is known.

Basically, this means OKC can realistically trade their 2024 first round pick and 2020 second round pick. Everything else is either Stepien rule protected or tied up in other transactions.

Thank you for posting this. It’s enlightening.

If PHX would take Ferguson + Diallo + Patterson for Okobo + Oubre + Bender, I’d have to think long and hard about that. But I think we would probably need to add value.


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[Pillendreher]

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