Regular Season Game 33: Phoenix Suns (8-26) at Orlando Magic (14-18)

[Nemesis21]

Y'all ready for total board meltdown and to blow this bih up?!!

[Nemesis21]

Time to dust off that tank

They see me rollin'..... they hatin'....

[Optimus_Steel]

As soon as Issac was drafted I was calling for AG to be traded. I think we missed an opportunity last year to get good value for him and now he was a big contract with the same inconsistency. AG is a role player at best.

If WeHam though that either JI or AG could be an SF then our rebuild is already doomed. They do not have the skill set, they never have and predicitibly they get in each other's way. It's not an accident that when one has a good game the other one seems to struggle. But evaluate away WeHam!

[Nemesis21]

I think it's fairly obvious now that we aren't a playoff team.

Don't tell that to Knightro. He swears by the grace of God, that his is a 32-38 win, 6-8 seed playoff team. And still net a top 6 pick for Morant.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

I think it's fairly obvious now that we aren't a playoff team.

Don't tell that to Knightro. He swears by the grace of God, that his is a 32-38 win, 6-8 seed playoff team. And still net a top 6 pick for Morant.

He’s got to be Alex Martins then. Not understanding how the NBA works

[OrlChamps2030]

Every single person you hear come through this organisation and people from afar say AG is one of the hardest workers there is.

That actually makes me worry a little bit. That means he has possibly reached his potential. Year 5 and he still can’t dribble past a grandma or shoot off the dribble.

[Knightro]

I think it's fairly obvious now that we aren't a playoff team.

Don't tell that to Knightro. He swears by the grace of God, that his is a 32-38 win, 6-8 seed playoff team. And still net a top 6 pick for Morant.

*Sigh*

If I thought you were actually being serious, that'd be one thing. But you're pretty obviously trolling.

The last three teams that miss the playoffs in the East are going to end up slotted 6th, 7th or 8th in the final draft order. You understand that, right?

The Magic, Wizards and likely Heat are all going to end up within a few games of the final playoff spot and all pick in the top 8 of the draft anyway because the West top to bottom is much stronger record wise.

It's not my fault that you don't seem to grasp this concept. The West seeds 9-14 are all better record wise than the East seeds 9-14 and the difference between making and missing the playoffs in the Eastern Conference is going to end up being at least 7 (if not 8 or 9) spots in the draft order.

[Knightro]

He’s got to be Alex Martins then. Not understanding how the NBA works

It's just math my dude.

The Magic are the 10th seed in the East, but they have the 7th worst record in the entire NBA. How is that possible?

It's because every single non-playoff team in the Western Conference has a better record than the Magic despite the Magic only being 2 games out of the playoffs on their side of the bracket.

The point is, the East is so weak that the Magic can be in the mix for the 8 seed AND maintain a high draft position at the same time because the Kings, Grizlies, Jazz, Mavericks, Wolves and Pelicans all have and will likely continue to have better records than the Magic.

The Magic can essentially have their cake and eat it to in this case. They can "compete" for a playoff spot (which they likely won't get, but Clifford can ride these guys about how they're still in the mix all year) in the weak Eastern Conference, but at the same time still end up with the 6th or 7th spot in the draft order.

It's a product of how strong the West is compared to the East.

This isn't that difficult of a concept to grasp.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

Aaron had a great first quarter but then barely touched the ball. Vets that should be backups on a good team got all the touches - DJ, Vuc, Ross, Fournier

Bamba and Isaac were sitting on the bench while Ayton was making crucial defensive (yes, really) plays to help them win the game and Booker and Warren were carrying them offensively

I'm sorry but you're missing lots of context here. AG is a catch and shoot/straight line drive player. Hes not going to get those looks unless hes sharing the floor with scorers.

I don't understand why some people still don't get it. There isnt some conspiracy to not pass him the ball. He just sucks at creating his offense. He catches fire in the first quarter and teams adjust. Its very easy to take him out of the offense.

Furthermore, if the guys you mentioned are bench players on good teams then so is AG. Not only is he not the best player on, his own, team but he isnt better than Kelly Obure Jr who comes off the bench on a bad Suns team.

Can you honestly say that if the team moved AG for Kelly, move JI to PF and Kelly to SF that we'd be significantly worse? I can't. The only guys imo that move the needle for this team right now are JI, Ross, and Vooch. AG isn't a bad player, hes just not the player some around here still think he is for some reason.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

I don't disagree with you. I'll paste something I posted on another forum to express how I feel about this team:

(...) Now, let's discuss Vucevic. I think he's a legitimately GREAT offensive player. He has a lot of flaws (being a crybaby, and some defensive issues) but we have to make a decision on whether we want to keep him, or trade him for younger players, and I think this is the most important point I'm trying to make.

I think Vucevic could play with a star offensive player and still be very effective.

I could also see him traded and I wouldn't bat an eye. What I'm trying to say is that we have to choose who we want to feature. Vucevic, or BIG

This halfway BS is what I think can't happen. We've recently lost to the Bulls on the road and the Suns at home. Our players are starting to scream at each other and you can just see the losses coming. There's no way we're making the playoffs if we don't make a move this season. 

It's just like fantasy basketball. If you have a team that's so-so at every category, you won't be able to win in the long run. You have to choose 5 or 6 categories and build your team around that, letting go of players that break your strategy.

[Nemesis21]

I think it's fairly obvious now that we aren't a playoff team.

Don't tell that to Knightro. He swears by the grace of God, that his is a 32-38 win, 6-8 seed playoff team. And still net a top 6 pick for Morant.

*Sigh*

If I thought you were actually being serious, that'd be one thing. But you're pretty obviously trolling.

The last three teams that miss the playoffs in the East are going to end up slotted 6th, 7th or 8th in the final draft order. You understand that, right?

The Magic, Wizards and likely Heat are all going to end up within a few games of the final playoff spot and all pick in the top 8 of the draft anyway because the West top to bottom is much stronger record wise.

It's not my fault that you don't seem to grasp this concept. The West seeds 9-14 are all better record wise than the East seeds 9-14 and the difference between making and missing the playoffs in the Eastern Conference is going to end up being at least 7 (if not 8 or 9) spots in the draft order.

deleted by mod. Do not attack users.

[Furinkazan]

Time to dust off that tank

They see me rollin'..... they hatin'....

people on this board about 2-3 weeks ago said its to late to tank

[Knightro]

people on this board about 2-3 weeks ago said its to late to tank

Well realistically it's *probably* too late to get into the top 5 unless the Magic tank to the absolute maximum degree because they already have a 5-6 game cushion on the other tankers.

But they can finish 6th worst without much effort.

[j-ragg]

Gordon having his best year on defense, shooting the 3, and getting others involved... people talk like he’s useless. It’s always the same conversation. He needs to go sit in the corner and wait for the ball like a good little boy while Vuc, DJ, Evan decide if he’s allowed to have it or not. No matter if he starts out hot or not.

I can’t wait until he goes somewhere that has 1 pg that is capable of dribbling with their head up.

“Play within the flow of the offense, just don’t expect anyone else to”

[Furinkazan]

people on this board about 2-3 weeks ago said its to late to tank

Well realistically it's *probably* too late to get into the top 5 unless the Magic tank to the absolute maximum degree because they already have a 5-6 game cushion on the other tankers.

But they can finish 6th worst without much effort.

been saying this for years half ass win half ass tank
never a clear direction always picking around 5th
nothing new to see here

[Knightro]

Excuse me Alex Martins, I didn't even read this BS post of yours quoting me, and I'm not trolling.
I'm making sure that everyone knows how dumb you are. How stupid you are with your BS overly optimistic garbage, thinking this season would really be any different from the previous five. Forcing your way and opinion on everyone, quoting people and telling them how wrong they are, acting like you are the only one here that knows anything.

GTFO

You do realize you routinely show a fundamental lack of understanding on how NBA standings work right?

Here's two examples for you...

Me on December 9th (well before this most recent losing streak)

"I think the Magic end up missing the playoffs slightly, finishing like 9th or 10th in the East just outside of the 8 seed and end up drafting in 7-10 range"

You six days ago...

"Disagree again and again. He doesn't go later than 7 at worst. Magic will be late lottery."

"Since the Magic won't have a high enough pick for Morant"

You two days ago...

"Current mock drafts have the Magic picking 16th."

You either really don't get it or you're playing both sides of the fence. You're giving me a hard time for suggesting the Magic will compete for the playoffs, yet you're bemoaning the fact the Magic are going to pick in the "late lottery" even though I've explained repeatedly that both things are very capable of happening simultaneously because of how weak the Eastern Conference is.

Right now the Magic are 2 games out of the 7th seed AND are currently slotted to pick 7th. The East is so bad, they can basically "compete" (aka be within a few games of making it, enough of a carrot for Clifford to keep guys playing hard in March and April) for the playoffs while maintaining a top 6 or 7 pick at the exact same time.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Aaron had a great first quarter but then barely touched the ball. Vets that should be backups on a good team got all the touches - DJ, Vuc, Ross, Fournier

Bamba and Isaac were sitting on the bench while Ayton was making crucial defensive (yes, really) plays to help them win the game and Booker and Warren were carrying them offensively

I'm sorry but you're missing lots of context here. AG is a catch and shoot/straight line drive player. Hes not going to get those looks unless hes sharing the floor with scorers.

I don't understand why some people still don't get it. There isnt some conspiracy to not pass him the ball. He just sucks at creating his offense. He catches fire in the first quarter and teams adjust. Its very easy to take him out of the offense.

Furthermore, if the guys you mentioned are bench players on good teams then so is AG. Not only is he not the best player on, his own, team but he isnt better than Kelly Obure Jr who comes off the bench on a bad Suns team.

Can you honestly say that if the team moved AG for Kelly, move JI to PF and Kelly to SF that we'd be significantly worse? I can't. The only guys imo that move the needle for this team right now are JI, Ross, and Vooch. AG isn't a bad player, hes just not the player some around here still think he is for some reason.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

I don't disagree with you. I'll paste something I posted on another forum to express how I feel about this team:

(...) Now, let's discuss Vucevic. I think he's a legitimately GREAT offensive player. He has a lot of flaws (being a crybaby, and some defensive issues) but we have to make a decision on whether we want to keep him, or trade him for younger players, and I think this is the most important point I'm trying to make.

I think Vucevic could play with a star offensive player and still be very effective.

I could also see him traded and I wouldn't bat an eye. What I'm trying to say is that we have to choose who we want to feature. Vucevic, or BIG

This halfway BS is what I think can't happen. We've recently lost to the Bulls on the road and the Suns at home. Our players are starting to scream at each other and you can just see the losses coming. There's no way we're making the playoffs if we don't make a move this season. 

It's just like fantasy basketball. If you have a team that's so-so at every category, you won't be able to win in the long run. You have to choose 5 or 6 categories and build your team around that, letting go of players that break your strategy.

o...ok...This has nothing to do with AG. Also, who...nobody on our team is a crybaby. I understand your point I just dont get what it has to do with your original comment about AG not getting the ball.

[GameOver25]

The issue is that if you are trying to win games with your starters, and losing to the Bulls and Suns, there are more symptomatic problems than claiming “we are young.

The oldest player on Suns squad yesterday was TJ Warren (25 years old).

Exactly. Orlando consistently makes the decision to not play the players they recently draft and bury them on the bench behind players that don’t win us games. What’s the point if the result is the exact same.

This is the problem as a whole, we've never just said screw it play the lottery picks regardless of the results.

[Mauro Pedrosa]

I'm sorry but you're missing lots of context here. AG is a catch and shoot/straight line drive player. Hes not going to get those looks unless hes sharing the floor with scorers.

I don't understand why some people still don't get it. There isnt some conspiracy to not pass him the ball. He just sucks at creating his offense. He catches fire in the first quarter and teams adjust. Its very easy to take him out of the offense.

Furthermore, if the guys you mentioned are bench players on good teams then so is AG. Not only is he not the best player on, his own, team but he isnt better than Kelly Obure Jr who comes off the bench on a bad Suns team.

Can you honestly say that if the team moved AG for Kelly, move JI to PF and Kelly to SF that we'd be significantly worse? I can't. The only guys imo that move the needle for this team right now are JI, Ross, and Vooch. AG isn't a bad player, hes just not the player some around here still think he is for some reason.

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

I don't disagree with you. I'll paste something I posted on another forum to express how I feel about this team:

(...) Now, let's discuss Vucevic. I think he's a legitimately GREAT offensive player. He has a lot of flaws (being a crybaby, and some defensive issues) but we have to make a decision on whether we want to keep him, or trade him for younger players, and I think this is the most important point I'm trying to make.

I think Vucevic could play with a star offensive player and still be very effective.

I could also see him traded and I wouldn't bat an eye. What I'm trying to say is that we have to choose who we want to feature. Vucevic, or BIG

This halfway BS is what I think can't happen. We've recently lost to the Bulls on the road and the Suns at home. Our players are starting to scream at each other and you can just see the losses coming. There's no way we're making the playoffs if we don't make a move this season. 

It's just like fantasy basketball. If you have a team that's so-so at every category, you won't be able to win in the long run. You have to choose 5 or 6 categories and build your team around that, letting go of players that break your strategy.

o...ok...This has nothing to do with AG. Also, who...nobody on our team is a crybaby. I understand your point I just dont get what it has to do with your original comment about AG not getting the ball.

I think we have to let Isaac and AG try to create buckets, even if they're bad right now and it hurts us in the short term. You don't get better if you don't get the reps.

Either that or "build" around Vucevic and try to pair him with a star.

What I'm not happy with is the middle of the pack BS we're doing right now

[Mauro Pedrosa]

Mega-Yikes. You can't lose to the Bulls and then the Suns within 5 games of each other then pretend to be a playoff caliber team.

Believe me, I've had fellow Magic fans trying to tell me things are fine and we just need patience

[Blue_and_Whte]

Gordon having his best year on defense, shooting the 3, and getting others involved... people talk like he’s useless. It’s always the same conversation. He needs to go sit in the corner and wait for the ball like a good little boy while Vuc, DJ, Evan decide if he’s allowed to have it or not. No matter if he starts out hot or not.

I can’t wait until he goes somewhere that has 1 pg that is capable of dribbling with their head up.

“Play within the flow of the offense, just don’t expect anyone else to”

I dont know if you're joking but Vooch has clearly played within the flow of the offense as has Ross. Without them we'd maybe have 8 wins right now.

While you're description of how our games go is hyperbolic you're not entirely wrong. He does need to play off of actual scorers because he isnt good at creating his own offense. We've seen it enough times that we should come to accept that by now. The team has two PF's in the SL who both need scorers on the floor in order to get their own open looks who are both 3&D guys that defend at a high level. They need to either commit to Aaron at PF or Isaac at PF but neither is a SF. This is a severely unbalanced roster and the issue isn't at the center position. Personally I feel that JI can be more impactful and alot of that has to do with the fact that he's better at beating guys off the dribble than AG is. I think its really odd that he cant beat slower, less athletic players off the bounce.