2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[Texas Chuck]

people already complaining about how the refs treat Doncic?

looks like he's made it.

The guy in the thread is just hating.

But I think its pretty typical for people to get annoyed with guys who make a living at the foul line when they don't play for their team. Look at Harden as exhibit A. Or Wade in the 06 Finals(people ignore that Dirk shot a billion FT's those playoffs as well) or Mike. They don't like them getting all the calls. And yes superstars do get some calls others don't. That's not Luka(yet).

Some people just don't understand that drawing fouls is a skill and that some players excel at it and others don't. They think its about the refs when it's about their game.

[sunsbg]

people already complaining about how the refs treat Doncic?

looks like he's made it.

The guy in the thread is just hating.

But I think its pretty typical for people to get annoyed with guys who make a living at the foul line when they don't play for their team. Look at Harden as exhibit A. Or Wade in the 06 Finals(people ignore that Dirk shot a billion FT's those playoffs as well) or Mike. They don't like them getting all the calls. And yes superstars do get some calls others don't. That's not Luka(yet).

Some people just don't understand that drawing fouls is a skill and that some players excel at it and others don't. They think its about the refs when it's about their game.

It's about the rules really. It's like cheating. Weren't they fining players for flopping ? Intentionally going for contact when shooting a 3-pointer is the same.

[Texas Chuck]

It's about the rules really. It's like cheating. Weren't they fining players for flopping ? Intentionally going for contact when shooting a 3-pointer is the same.

If you say its about the rules then its literally not cheating. You get that right?

Now if you want to argue if those should be fouls or not, great we can have that argument, but understand players like Harden, Wade, Luka who merely take advantage of the rules are playing intelligent basketball not cheating.

And please show me Luka flopping for calls. I haven't seen a rash of him doing this. Going hard and drawing contact, pumping guys off their feet and drawing contact isn't flopping. Or cheating.


Now I think jumping into guys who are vertical shouldn't be a defensive foul. Be that at the rim or at the 3-pt line. So I agree with you that they should call that differently. But we also both know that's unlikely to change anytime soon considering what the league seems to want. So I don't get upset with players who take advantage. Especially not when like Luka they are still making legit basketball plays.

[sunsbg]

It's about the rules really. It's like cheating. Weren't they fining players for flopping ? Intentionally going for contact when shooting a 3-pointer is the same.

If you say its about the rules then its literally not cheating. You get that right?

Now if you want to argue if those should be fouls or not, great we can have that argument, but understand players like Harden, Wade, Luka who merely take advantage of the rules are playing intelligent basketball not cheating.

And please show me Luka flopping for calls. I haven't seen a rash of him doing this. Going hard and drawing contact, pumping guys off their feet and drawing contact isn't flopping. Or cheating.


Now I think jumping into guys who are vertical shouldn't be a defensive foul. Be that at the rim or at the 3-pt line. So I agree with you that they should call that differently. But we also both know that's unlikely to change anytime soon considering what the league seems to want. So I don't get upset with players who take advantage. Especially not when like Luka they are still making legit basketball plays.

It's not cheating, that's why I said it's 'like cheating'.

More and more players are doing it, like the last play in regulation in Suns - Magic game.

Luka is also going in this direction(1:30, 3:15) :

Watch on YouTube

Still I agree some players are going to be fouled more than others based on their playing style.

[Trader_Joe]

I am glad things worked like that for Kurucs.

Kurucs was considered as one of the most talented european players in junior competitions and was than predicted to do well in NBA as well. However at the transition from the junior competitions to senior Barcelona's team, he kind of got lost, didn't get many minutes and the hype around him was dissapearing.
I haven't watched him play a while and wasn't able to make a judgement on his potential on the draft day, but am glad that one of the most exciting european players from youth comeptitions found his place in NBA, while being pretty much neglected in Barcelona.

From what I've read Barcelona started hiding him once he made it known he wanted to move to the NBA, if I remember it correctly their quote was something along the lines of "we wont be a farm team for the NBA anymore"

totally untrue. the problem for young players in the best clubs in Europe is, they're competing against the best players in Europe. they play only if they are better than them. nobody cares about their potential, they have to be better than players in their prime at this moment. Kurucs was simply not good enough. that's why nobody under 22 plays in Euroleague. Luka was just an exception.

Actually there is plenty of truth to what he said. Your statement is based upon your opinion.

https://www.netsdaily.com/2018/8/23/17771248/the-mystery-that-is-rodions-kurucs
act, at one point in 2016-17, Draft Express had him as a late lottery pick, but injuries and a lack of playing time with F.C. Barcelona dropped his draft stock as the season wore on. While he was healthy this past season, the dispute with Barca got worse and his playing time dropped.

Moreover, until late this season, Barca wouldn’t budge on his buyout, which was reportedly $5 million. Considering that NBA teams can’t pay more than $700,000 of an international player’s buyout, it made no sense for Kurucs or any NBA to draft him. All that hurt his draft stock more than any injuries. (And even after the Draft, buyout talks between the Nets and Barcelona took so long that Kurucs couldn’t play in the Summer League.)

As Mike Schmitz of ESPN wrote back in April, Kurucs’s fate in Barcelona was sealed after “his camp opted against signing a long-term extension in the offseason,” talking about last summer. Things went to extremes this past season.

“Barcelona, known for its in-house politics, has worked hard to keep Kurucs from being seen by NBA scouts, with a handful of European-based talent evaluators failing to catch him playing in meaningful games,” wrote Schmitz. “Scouts also aren’t allowed into Barcelona practices. One NBA team in particular has assigned an international scout to follow Kurucs around to every game, hoping to catch a glimpse of the 20-year-old forward.”

[juanc]

The last few days I have noticed there are people who are bothered by Doncic fanboys. Don't get me wrong. If someone hates those kind of people who think Luka is some kind of superhuman and nothing is his fault(always the teammates/referees/...) it's me.

But you all need to understand that most of those guys(including myself) are Slovenian. And the hype here is just ridicuolus. There are several articles about Luka every day. Basketball(especially Luka) has become the most talked about topic everywhere, since Slovenia won the Eurobasket.

We've had great teams in the past, but never won a medal. And then there comes this 18 years old teenager paired with Goran Dragić and they win gold. Dragic and Doncic are heroes in everyones eyes.(If you ask me the biggest hero was coach Kokoskov. It was this Eurobasket when i saw his brilliant basketball mind and I feel confident saying he will show it in Phoenix(Actually he already is showing that))

After that he had a brilliant season for Real Madrid and the hype just became bigger. But the same thing was happening. It was always coaches/teammates/referres fault. When Luka had a bad game, it was becouse the planets and the stars were in the wrong position...

My point is that Luka has become a rolemodel for many Slovenians/Europeans, and we all are/were blind on one eye when it comes to recognizing the weaknesses/mistakes our rolemodes have/make.


Why don't we just sit back and enjoy in what looks like one of the best, if not the best rookie class in this decade

[JohnWillow]

Oh yeah then I have to ask BOB8 if he was not good enough for Barcelona, why he is really good for the Nets then? Does that mean that Barcelona>Nets or what? How does one coach see the potential, but the others does not even try to see it? Maybe Kurucs magically went from a bum to a young intriguing prospect in span of a one offseason? But no it does not happen in real life, the problem is right in front of every European basketball fan, it's in organization, how else would you explain, why Barca fans have been telling this for about the last few years all the time? They are not surprised by Kurucs, because they know that he was good enough for Barca, but the coach and heads on the top was against it.

What about other Barcelona youngsters before or now even after Kurucs who are not getting playing time even in the ACB league for Barcelona, because coach is just putrid to even let them play? They recruit and sign them at a young age, let them grow there and then just even do not give them a chance.

For example.

Stefan Peno? Mario Hezonja? Marcus Erikkson? Luka Samanic? Eric Vila? Moussa Diagne? Marc Garcia? They even let away Sasha Vezenkov for litteraly nothing And now the same thing will happen likely with Aleix Font and Atoumane Diagne.

No, but that is because Kurucs was bad and the team was not the problem... like at all.

[Mr B]

The last few days I have noticed there are people who are bothered by Doncic fanboys. Don't get me wrong. If someone hates those kind of people who think Luka is some kind of superhuman and nothing is his fault(always the teammates/referees/...) it's me.

But you all need to understand that most of those guys(including myself) are Slovenian. And the hype here is just ridicuolus. There are several articles about Luka every day. Basketball(especially Luka) has become the most talked about topic everywhere, since Slovenia won the Eurobasket.

We've had great teams in the past, but never won a medal. And then there comes this 18 years old teenager paired with Goran Dragić and they win gold. Dragic and Doncic are heroes in everyones eyes.(If you ask me the biggest hero was coach Kokoskov. It was this Eurobasket when i saw his brilliant basketball mind and I feel confident saying he will show it in Phoenix(Actually he already is showing that))

After that he had a brilliant season for Real Madrid and the hype just became bigger. But the same thing was happening. It was always coaches/teammates/referres fault. When Luka had a bad game, it was becouse the planets and the stars were in the wrong position...

My point is that Luka has become a rolemodel for many Slovenians/Europeans, and we all are/were blind on one eye when it comes to recognizing the weaknesses/mistakes our rolemodes have/make.


Why don't we just sit back and enjoy in what looks like one of the best, if not the best rookie class in this decade

A few of the Luka fans are likely also Mavs fans (like me). I wouldn’t consider myself a Luka fanboy though because I’ve been a diehard fan of the Mavs since 1992. I understand he’s going to have some ups and downs considering he’s a rookie (even if he is a special rookie). I don’t feel the need to cut other players down though just to prop up Luka. I love that this whole rookie class has been good/great. It makes me look forward to what rivalries Luka and the Mavs will have.

As far as why some Mavs fans may be going a little overboard with their love for Luka it’s because it means we will get to continue seeing our Mavs be relevant. For the last 20 years we’ve had the privilege of watching one of the all time great players in NBA history and watch that player lead the team to a title. Guys like me have watched this team go from being a laughingstock of an organization to being one of the best in sports. After the 2011 title the owner (Cuban) blew up the team and wasted the last few years of Dirk’s career (remember Cuban passed on Giannis when the GM Donnie Nelson wanted to draft him).

Then here comes this 19 year old basketball phenom. A kid that looks like he could be another all time great. Mavs fans are beyond excited to have a young budding superstar on our team.

[Young gun 6]

Read on Twitter

[Bob8]

Oh yeah then I have to ask BOB8 if he was not good enough for Barcelona, why he is really good for the Nets then? Does that mean that Barcelona>Nets or what? How does one coach see the potential, but the others does not even try to see it? Maybe Kurucs magically went from a bum to a young intriguing prospect in span of a one offseason? But no it does not happen in real life, the problem is right in front of every European basketball fan, it's in organization, how else would you explain, why Barca fans have been telling this for about the last few years all the time? They are not surprised by Kurucs, because they know that he was good enough for Barca, but the coach and heads on the top was against it.

What about other Barcelona youngsters before or now even after Kurucs who are not getting playing time even in the ACB league for Barcelona, because coach is just putrid to even let them play? They recruit and sign them at a young age, let them grow there and then just even do not give them a chance.

For example.

Stefan Peno? Mario Hezonja? Marcus Erikkson? Luka Samanic? Eric Vila? Moussa Diagne? Marc Garcia? They even let away Sasha Vezenkov for litteraly nothing And now the same thing will happen likely with Aleix Font and Atoumane Diagne.

No, but that is because Kurucs was bad and the team was not the problem... like at all.

It’s not Barca thing. There normally aren’t any players under 22, who have anykind of significant role in the best clubs in Europe. Why? Because those clubs want to win the cup, that’s their only purpose and for doing so they’re buying the best available players on the market. Only winning matters, there’s no tanking for the draft, long rebuilds, developing of young players. Real has many youngsters too, and is probably the best club in Europe for developing young players at the moment, but only Luka has got good minutes in last few years. You have to understand that regular season in Euroleague is only 30 games, meaning, every game matters, coaches are under great pressure, they try to win at any cost with the best players they have at the moment, developing doesn’t matter at all. And why would they develop players for Nba teams anyway?

[Hesh]

there are Luka fans, who are cool, and then there are Luka stans...

Mavs fans are cool, and I'm happy they landed someone who will turn their franchise around, going forward, before Dirk has even retired.

[Pachinko_]

I don't really care about Luka, I just like to hang **** on the ignorant fools who never watched a single Euroloague game in their life and yet came here last summer to tell us that Luka will be a bust, because something something Rubio and Hejonza.

I can't get enough of it, I will probably rub it in for the next decade or so

Besides I prefer Jokic to Luka, because he's even more fat, and he's a better example of how stupid some fans are to be so fascinated with athleticism and to think that all you need to play is a big bounce and a wingspan.

Thats my boy right there, with the gut

[J_T]

there are Luka fans, who are cool, and then there are Luka stans...

Mavs fans are cool, and I'm happy they landed someone who will turn their franchise around, going forward, before Dirk has even retired.

I guess you could say the same for Suns fans, Lakers fans,...

[Mr B]

I don't really care about Luka, I just like to hang **** on the ignorant fools who never watched a single Euroloague game in their life and yet came here last summer to tell us that Luka will be a bust, because something something Rubio and Hejonza.

I can't get enough, I will probably rub it in for the next decade or so

Besides I prefer Jokic to Luka, because he's even more fat, and he's a better example of how stupid some fans are to be so fascinated with athleticism and to think that all you need to play is a big bounce and a wingspan.

Thats my boy right there, with the gut

If that’s all that was needed Gerald Green would be headed to the HOF instead of a career journeyman. Same goes for Darius Miles.

[Capn'O]

I don't really care about Luka, I just like to hang **** on the ignorant fools who never watched a single Euroloague game in their life and yet came here last summer to tell us that Luka will be a bust, because something something Rubio and Hejonza.

I can't get enough, I will probably rub it in for the next decade or so

Besides I prefer Jokic to Luka, because he's even more fat, and he's a better example of how stupid some fans are to be so fascinated with athleticism and to think that all you need to play is a big bounce and a wingspan.

Thats my boy right there, with the gut

I didn't get it either. It's like, yeah, they all played in the same league but Rubio and Mario were meh and Doncic was the MVP.

[Rn5ho]

I don't really care about Luka, I just like to hang **** on the ignorant fools who never watched a single Euroloague game in their life and yet came here last summer to tell us that Luka will be a bust, because something something Rubio and Hejonza.

I can't get enough, I will probably rub it in for the next decade or so

Besides I prefer Jokic to Luka, because he's even more fat, and he's a better example of how stupid some fans are to be so fascinated with athleticism and to think that all you need to play is a big bounce and a wingspan.

Thats my boy right there, with the gut

I didn't get it either. It's like, yeah, they all played in the same league but Rubio and Mario were meh and Doncic was the MVP.

Rubio was actually ok - but within his own limits. He was a great defensive player and great faciliator, but he was NOT a shooter. He was only really hyped up due to the POTENTIAL to become a shooter, which us European fans didn't believe to be a possibility.

Really noone should use Luka and those two in the same sentence when comparing players. And I mean no disrespect to them, they are great in their own way.

[Bob8]

I don't really care about Luka, I just like to hang **** on the ignorant fools who never watched a single Euroloague game in their life and yet came here last summer to tell us that Luka will be a bust, because something something Rubio and Hejonza.

I can't get enough, I will probably rub it in for the next decade or so

Besides I prefer Jokic to Luka, because he's even more fat, and he's a better example of how stupid some fans are to be so fascinated with athleticism and to think that all you need to play is a big bounce and a wingspan.

Thats my boy right there, with the gut

I didn't get it either. It's like, yeah, they all played in the same league but Rubio and Mario were meh and Doncic was the MVP.

Rubio was actually ok - but within his own limits. He was a great defensive player and great faciliator, but he was NOT a shooter. He was only really hyped up due to the POTENTIAL to become a shooter, which us European fans didn't believe to be a possibility.

Really noone should use Luka and those two in the same sentence when comparing players. And I mean no disrespect to them, they are great in their own way.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=LFW#!careerstats

[HoopsterJones]

Still have them up to this point:

1. Doncic
2. Ayton
3. JJJ

[perempe20]

Doncic is 7/10 from 3s in New Orleans.

[Texas Chuck]

It's over.