PG Thread: Wait we played today?

[blanko]

Marching to beautiful beautiful zion!!

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[Besart19]

Zion will be either Shawn Kemp or Anthony Bennett

[thebuzzardman]

The zone just sucks. Man, the Knicks are just not good at it. They were playing better defense man to man with any lineup, even the no defense playing guys.

But the reason they are using/have to use the zone is because they're hiding Kanter.

That is not true. They are using it because the while team doesn't know how to rotate.

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They should do the following:

Show guys the bench who aren't rotating and play those who can (if there are any)
Play man to man with the lack of knowing how to rotate, because even that was more effective than this zone.

And I get the players are young and somehow this lack of ability to rotate will be equated with lack of talent, but the fact that the Knicks still can't rotate correctly and the fact they suck so bad in zones is starting to feel like a coaching issue.

[thebuzzardman]

Zion will be either Shawn Kemp or Anthony Bennett

I'll take the Knicks getting young Shawn Kemp. The key is, they Knicks would have to be smart enough to trade Zion after his rookie deal or midway through his second contract if that's true.

Not sure he'll be either of those guys though

[Besart19]

Zion will be either Shawn Kemp or Anthony Bennett

I'll take the Knicks getting young Shawn Kemp. The key is, they Knicks would have to be smart enough to trade Zion after his rookie deal or midway through his second contract if that's true.

Not sure he'll be either of those guys though

It he will become a Shawn Kemp thats a lottery... he might be a Larry Johnson too, if he develops some crafty moves on the post and a reliable jumper (both mid-range baseline and a wing 3 point shot)

[Besart19]

If no big FA would sign here we will have this:

Porzingis / Kornet
Vonleh / Robinson
Knox / Hardaway
Barret / Dotson
Ntilikina / Mudiay

Good/bad enough for another lottery pick in 2020

[thebuzzardman]

Zion will be either Shawn Kemp or Anthony Bennett

I'll take the Knicks getting young Shawn Kemp. The key is, they Knicks would have to be smart enough to trade Zion after his rookie deal or midway through his second contract if that's true.

Not sure he'll be either of those guys though

It he will become a Shawn Kemp thats a lottery... he might be a Larry Johnson too, if he develops some crafty moves on the post and a reliable jumper (both mid-range baseline and a wing 3 point shot)

I get how the strength\athleticism some people won't think will translate in quite the same way as the NBA is full of more bigger/stronger/faster guys than college. And I'm pretty sure when that gets said, they don't mean he's Superchunk Hakim Warrick, but that maybe less dominant. I guess the argument is over all star greatness vs being just good. Just feels like with those hops, quick 2nd bounce, ball handling\passing, and most importantly, footwork, it's hard to imagine him anything other than a very good basketball player. Plus, so far, whatever stats he has, while getting some cleaning up inside against guys some of which won't be in the NBA, it's still a really strong conference, but also he's not getting points by being the focal point of the offense with tons of touches - he gets them in the flow. I guess I mean, even he he's merely "very good", he'll be good in a way that fits in with what a pro team is trying to execute, as opposed to some very good players whose "goodness" comes from them dominating the ball\doing things that play to their strengths but not necessarily the best way to play as a team.

[Besart19]

I'll take the Knicks getting young Shawn Kemp. The key is, they Knicks would have to be smart enough to trade Zion after his rookie deal or midway through his second contract if that's true.

Not sure he'll be either of those guys though

It he will become a Shawn Kemp thats a lottery... he might be a Larry Johnson too, if he develops some crafty moves on the post and a reliable jumper (both mid-range baseline and a wing 3 point shot)

I get how the strength\athleticism some people won't think will translate in quite the same way as the NBA is full of more bigger/stronger/faster guys than college. And I'm pretty sure when that gets said, they don't mean he's Superchunk Hakim Warrick, but that maybe less dominant. I guess the argument is over all star greatness vs being just good. Just feels like with those hops, quick 2nd bounce, ball handling\passing, and most importantly, footwork, it's hard to imagine him anything other than a very good basketball player. Plus, so far, whatever stats he has, while getting some cleaning up inside against guys some of which won't be in the NBA, it's still a really strong conference, but also he's not getting points by being the focal point of the offense with tons of touches - he gets them in the flow. I guess I mean, even he he's merely "very good", he'll be good in a way that fits in with what a pro team is trying to execute, as opposed to some very good players whose "goodness" comes from them dominating the ball\doing things that play to their strengths but not necessarily the best way to play as a team.

Insha’Allah

[thebuzzardman]

Miss Cleo Buzzardman
(holds pack of tarot cards to forehead)

"The spirits of basketball past, present and future have spoken to me. I am here to tell you what they tell me. The things you know in your heart to be true, but won't say"

KP comes back, gets hurt again his next season, is hurt throughout his career and becomes another "what if" player like Bernard King, Odom, etc etc

Fizdale wears out his welcome after 2.5 years, when the players, FO and fanbase tire of his motivational musings that are minus any true results

KD and all other FA's shun the Knicks, in spite of a cap clearing trade of CLee

THJr makes it to the end of his Knick contract and is resigned for another 4 years (25 million per)

At some point during his injury plagued seasons, the Knicks bank on KP getting healthy and max him out. He never gets truly healthy

Knicks get the #5 pick in the 2019 draft. Whoever they draft is "ok"

Knicks of 2019 season still aren't any good. Knox makes some strides, KP brings them some early season wins (enough to screw up draft odds and but not enough for the playoffs) before going down with another season ending injury in mid January and whoever is drafted is uneven, triggering many many many Knox vs 2019 pick board fights.

Knicks pick 7th in the 2020 draft. Another player is drafted the Knicks board mostly dislikes

Knicks hover around 38 wins durings KP"s injury plagued career, making the playoffs the one year he managed to play 65 or more games

KP bolts the Knicks after his contract is up signs with the Phoenix suns, who medically rejuvenate his career and he's a part of bringing them their first NBA championship.

As a side note, the "Will KP leave/should he be traded" drama plays out all year. All indications are he'll leave, Knicks still don't work out a trade for him, get nothing for him as he leaves a UFA.

Scott Perry fired as GM, Isiah Thomas is announced as the new GM

1 year later, the Knicks have traded 2 first round picks for Andrew Wiggins, who according to Isiah Thomas "is now reaching his prime, and I can help him reach even greater heights"

Merry Christmas and have a happy new year!

[prophet_of_rage]

Zion will be either Shawn Kemp or Anthony Bennett

I'll take the Knicks getting young Shawn Kemp. The key is, they Knicks would have to be smart enough to trade Zion after his rookie deal or midway through his second contract if that's true.

Not sure he'll be either of those guys though

Nah, he is not Shawn Kenp nor Anthony Bennett. I really see Rodney Rodgers.

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[Adelheid]

But the reason they are using/have to use the zone is because they're hiding Kanter.

That is not true. They are using it because the while team doesn't know how to rotate.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

They should do the following:

Show guys the bench who aren't rotating and play those who can (if there are any)
Play man to man with the lack of knowing how to rotate, because even that was more effective than this zone.

And I get the players are young and somehow this lack of ability to rotate will be equated with lack of talent, but the fact that the Knicks still can't rotate correctly and the fact they suck so bad in zones is starting to feel like a coaching issue.

We were overhyped with the turnaround in coaching staff. The verdict is still out but the signs are not encouraging. Its like they gave up before the players do. Or maybe that they dont really have much to teach at all.

[prophet_of_rage]

That is not true. They are using it because the while team doesn't know how to rotate.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

They should do the following:

Show guys the bench who aren't rotating and play those who can (if there are any)
Play man to man with the lack of knowing how to rotate, because even that was more effective than this zone.

And I get the players are young and somehow this lack of ability to rotate will be equated with lack of talent, but the fact that the Knicks still can't rotate correctly and the fact they suck so bad in zones is starting to feel like a coaching issue.

We were overhyped with the turnaround in coaching staff. The verdict is still out but the signs are not encouraging. Its like they gave up before the players do. Or maybe that they dont really have much to teach at all.

Coming up in the NBA is like training for a weightlifting competition. You enter the snallest and have to work your way up because everybody is training too. So a big part of your success comes through attrition.

In terms of the NBA, Michael Jordan didn't pass Bird and Magic or the Pistons until they got old. Duncan, Kobe, Shaq didn't dominate until Michael stepped away. Lebron wasn't the King until those three gave up the ghost and who will succeed the 34 year old king? We shall see, but he is slowing down.

Our staff can't teach the kids enough to be competitve with teams with veterans. And what you're seeing now are teams hitting their stride and running away from the youngsters.

Our coaching staff was also unnecessarily overzealous i terms of what they are able to do. I mean that's what coaches believe but thej he reality of working with the players hits and boom. He we are.

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[thebuzzardman]

They should do the following:

Show guys the bench who aren't rotating and play those who can (if there are any)
Play man to man with the lack of knowing how to rotate, because even that was more effective than this zone.

And I get the players are young and somehow this lack of ability to rotate will be equated with lack of talent, but the fact that the Knicks still can't rotate correctly and the fact they suck so bad in zones is starting to feel like a coaching issue.

We were overhyped with the turnaround in coaching staff. The verdict is still out but the signs are not encouraging. Its like they gave up before the players do. Or maybe that they dont really have much to teach at all.

Coming up in the NBA is like training for a weightlifting competition. You enter the snallest and have to work your way up because everybody is training too. So a big part of your success comes through attrition.

In terms of the NBA, Michael Jordan didn't pass Bird and Magic or the Pistons until they got old. Duncan, Kobe, Shaq didn't dominate until Michael stepped away. Lebron wasn't the King until those three gave up the ghost and who will succeed the 34 year old king? We shall see, but he is slowing down.

Our staff can't teach the kids enough to be competitve with teams with veterans. And what you're seeing now are teams hitting their stride and running away from the youngsters.

Our coaching staff was also unnecessarily overzealous i terms of what they are able to do. I mean that's what coaches believe but thej he reality of working with the players hits and boom. He we are.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

I mean, I get that. I don't judge basketball teams until after Christmas, as that seems to be when it clicks in for teams, meaning, as you said, the good/great teams truly get their sh*t together/hit stride, so to an extent, early season wins are a little bogus. (Thank god the Knicks didn't get too many).

I just have a concern the Knicks are trending backwards. I get that other teams are asserting themselves and figuring out their roster changes/gelling etc, while the Knicks are just bad. Being bad is good this year. Probably next year too, though they'll most likely be mediocre instead of bad. Anyway, feels like more than just being bad is going on here, where either Fiz isn't all that in teaching, or he's starting to lose some guys, or bit of both.

And that zone. Please. If it's goal is to hide Kanter, why? They aren't any better defensively with the zone + Kanter. In fact, they are worse. And why scheme defensively around a guy who is gone anyway, IF that's the reason for the zone? (someone posited that). If it's "they are bad on switching", continue coaching up switching. I get going zone here and there to learn it, but Fiz sticks with it for long stretches. It's painful. The offense is boring to watch as it is. At least it was fun watching the young guys compete, such as it was, on defense. Now it's just bad basketball to watch all the way around.

Just feels like meh young yets with meh young talent with a meh young coach whose got meh offensive and defensive systems\ideas.

I'm not that optimistic about the future, and it's not because "I can't handle rebuild life". I embrace the losses. I've advocated tanking for several years, at least. Of course, Knicks got with the program after the barn door got mostly shut, because Knicks.

This all feels like purposeless mediocrity, the Knicks long term speciality.

So glad Beasley\Jack\KOQ\Timmy and pre injury KP propelled the Knicks out of the top 3 so we can enjoy Knox instead of a difference making player like Donic.

I wonder which non difference maker the Knicks will land next draft when they whiff on Zion/Barrett.

[thebuzzardman]

Zion will be either Shawn Kemp or Anthony Bennett

I'll take the Knicks getting young Shawn Kemp. The key is, they Knicks would have to be smart enough to trade Zion after his rookie deal or midway through his second contract if that's true.

Not sure he'll be either of those guys though

Nah, he is not Shawn Kenp nor Anthony Bennett. I really see Rodney Rodgers.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

Wow, that would be pretty bust like if he goes #1.

[prophet_of_rage]

We were overhyped with the turnaround in coaching staff. The verdict is still out but the signs are not encouraging. Its like they gave up before the players do. Or maybe that they dont really have much to teach at all.

Coming up in the NBA is like training for a weightlifting competition. You enter the snallest and have to work your way up because everybody is training too. So a big part of your success comes through attrition.

In terms of the NBA, Michael Jordan didn't pass Bird and Magic or the Pistons until they got old. Duncan, Kobe, Shaq didn't dominate until Michael stepped away. Lebron wasn't the King until those three gave up the ghost and who will succeed the 34 year old king? We shall see, but he is slowing down.

Our staff can't teach the kids enough to be competitve with teams with veterans. And what you're seeing now are teams hitting their stride and running away from the youngsters.

Our coaching staff was also unnecessarily overzealous i terms of what they are able to do. I mean that's what coaches believe but thej he reality of working with the players hits and boom. He we are.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

I mean, I get that. I don't judge basketball teams until after Christmas, as that seems to be when it clicks in for teams, meaning, as you said, the good/great teams truly get their sh*t together/hit stride, so to an extent, early season wins are a little bogus. (Thank god the Knicks didn't get too many).

I just have a concern the Knicks are trending backwards. I get that other teams are asserting themselves and figuring out their roster changes/gelling etc, while the Knicks are just bad. Being bad is good this year. Probably next year too, though they'll most likely be mediocre instead of bad. Anyway, feels like more than just being bad is going on here, where either Fiz isn't all that in teaching, or he's starting to lose some guys, or bit of both.

And that zone. Please. If it's goal is to hide Kanter, why? They aren't any better defensively with the zone + Kanter. In fact, they are worse. And why scheme defensively around a guy who is gone anyway, IF that's the reason for the zone? (someone posited that). If it's "they are bad on switching", continue coaching up switching. I get going zone here and there to learn it, but Fiz sticks with it for long stretches. It's painful. The offense is boring to watch as it is. At least it was fun watching the young guys compete, such as it was, on defense. Now it's just bad basketball to watch all the way around.

Just feels like meh young yets with meh young talent with a meh young coach whose got meh offensive and defensive systems\ideas.

I'm not that optimistic about the future, and it's not because "I can't handle rebuild life". I embrace the losses. I've advocated tanking for several years, at least. Of course, Knicks got with the program after the barn door got mostly shut, because Knicks.

This all feels like purposeless mediocrity, the Knicks long term speciality.

So glad Beasley\Jack\KOQ\Timmy and pre injury KP propelled the Knicks out of the top 3 so we can enjoy Knox instead of a difference making player like Donic.

I wonder which non difference maker the Knicks will land next draft when they whiff on Zion/Barrett.

I don't believe the zone is to hide Kanter because they use it when he is off the floor. And there isn't a lot of in season practice time.

Buzz, I've been down on the Knicks since they traded Ewing for Rice and Longley. I'm the hoodwinked guy. I'm the ... this talent is not great, guy. I like KP, I like Tim in the right doses, Knox is okay and will be fine if you expect nothing more than a professional scorer. Vonleh is a modern Mason. Mitchell is the next DeAndre Jordan (whom I don't think can play, but this is our era). I just don't buy the hype that the rest of the fandom gets into.

There are reasons for everything the coaches are doing and I do think they are doing a better than average job and sticking to the long term goal of making sure we lose enough to get a good draft pick. Next year another lotto pick will be fine (though Washington may push us into the playoffs) and then we slowly build as teams like Washington, Indiana, Charlotte descend.

I said in the Phil years commit to a five year rebuild. Hopefully we will but there is a lot of sucking to go with that.

I watch other teams for basketball, the Knicks because of our long history.

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[prophet_of_rage]

I'll take the Knicks getting young Shawn Kemp. The key is, they Knicks would have to be smart enough to trade Zion after his rookie deal or midway through his second contract if that's true.

Not sure he'll be either of those guys though

Nah, he is not Shawn Kenp nor Anthony Bennett. I really see Rodney Rodgers.

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Wow, that would be pretty bust like if he goes #1.

Rodgers was a 21.9 and 8 guy in college in the ACC.

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[Jeff Van Gully]

Zion will be either Shawn Kemp or Anthony Bennett

oooh. i have my concerns about zion too, but i think his floor is MUCH higher than anthony bennett.

that's in large part because if nothing else zion does not look like a bum ass.

anthony bennnett was talented and did not seem to GAF about the game. he got a nice little rookie scale check and whatever. zion looks like a competitor. that and his skills and phyisical ability should get him pretty far.

his ceiling...

good lord, the ceiling is the roof. i think his ceiling is actually higher than shawn kemp. but i do see similarities.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Nah, he is not Shawn Kenp nor Anthony Bennett. I really see Rodney Rodgers.

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Wow, that would be pretty bust like if he goes #1.

Rodgers was a 21.9 and 8 guy in college in the ACC.

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and he was a decent pro. the expectations are wayyyy higher than that.

i mean, guys kill major college conferences and don't pan out as projected in the pros all the time. that's why i treat the draft the way i do. it's important, but every pick is a lottery ticket. no guarantees ever.

[prophet_of_rage]

Wow, that would be pretty bust like if he goes #1.

Rodgers was a 21.9 and 8 guy in college in the ACC.

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and he was a decent pro. the expectations are wayyyy higher than that.

i mean, guys kill major college conferences and don't pan out as projected in the pros all the time. that's why i treat the draft the way i do. it's important, but every pick is a lottery ticket. no guarantees ever.

Yeah, I don't see Zion as so transformational. I see people saying Barkley as a floor and that is crazy. Zion is putting up Rodney Rodgers numbers in college and playing in that same style. Yeah he can jump out the gym and probably will look great on the break, but I just don't see him as Larry Johnson even.

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[Jeff Van Gully]

Rodgers was a 21.9 and 8 guy in college in the ACC.

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and he was a decent pro. the expectations are wayyyy higher than that.

i mean, guys kill major college conferences and don't pan out as projected in the pros all the time. that's why i treat the draft the way i do. it's important, but every pick is a lottery ticket. no guarantees ever.

Yeah, I don't see Zion as so transformational. I see people saying Barkley as a floor and that is crazy. Zion is putting up Rodney Rodgers numbers in college and playing in that same style. Yeah he can jump out the gym and probably will look great on the break, but I just don't see him as Larry Johnson even.

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wow. barkley as a floor is preposterous to put on anyone.... and kind of insulting to a 50 greatest.

from now on... no hall of famers as floors for draft picks, people!