Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

[whocares1]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

I don’t think him being a 3 and D would make him a bust of a draft pick. He was picked 8th not 1-5. At 8th you’re given the freedom to experiment and the Knicks went with a kid with a ridiculous wingspan, and a tenacious defender who they hoped would develop on the offensive side of the ball. If he becomes a serviceable 3 and D in this league he’d be a valuable role player on any team.

Using the logic of “Trevor Ariza was a second round pick” is silly. Manu Ginobli and Draymond Green were also 2nd round picks that doesn’t mean you’ll find player of their caliber every season in the second round. If re-drafted Trevor would’ve certainly been a first round pick.

3 and D players don’t stick because they aren’t all stars but they have an important role in this league. Otto Porter got the max for being just a 3 and D. Courtney Lee and many others got paid for being just that.

[mpharris36]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

I think his playmaking right now is his best offensive trait so I don't see the whole 3/D player when he already can run an offense and has solid passing vision. To become a 3/D he's going to have to be able to shoot it...which he is really struggling to do that.

So I don't see him strictly as 3/D because its not like he needs to add playmaking (he can improve there) but he already runs the P&R nicely. It's really his shot that is holding him back offensively right now. No one respects it.

[Thugger HBC]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

I think his playmaking right now is his best offensive trait so I don't see the whole 3/D player when he already can run an offense and has solid passing vision. To become a 3/D he's going to have to be able to shoot it...which he is really struggling to do that.

So I don't see him strictly as 3/D because its not like he needs to add playmaking (he can improve there) but he already runs the P&R nicely. It's really his shot that is holding him back offensively right now. No one respects it.

You have to be honest. Frank isn't a playmaker right now. He's basic at best and that's being generous.

[MaseInYourFace]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

I don't see Frank making it as a PG which was his homerun best case scenario so at this point I'd be happy if he becomes a good 3 &D guy at least. Guys have busted much worse FWIW. No shame. The draft is still a huge crapshoot.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

I think his playmaking right now is his best offensive trait so I don't see the whole 3/D player when he already can run an offense and has solid passing vision. To become a 3/D he's going to have to be able to shoot it...which he is really struggling to do that.

So I don't see him strictly as 3/D because its not like he needs to add playmaking (he can improve there) but he already runs the P&R nicely. It's really his shot that is holding him back offensively right now. No one respects it.

and he's still way too passive. so they don't respect either the shot or the drive as threats. that makes life extremely difficult at any level, especially the NBA.

IMO, frank needs to unlock his scoring. i don't know how the hell he is going to. but i also know it's possibly early in his career and even physiological development. so i'm not writing him off. the things giannis is able to do now came with the development of his body. as frank continues to literally grow, he could improve on that end.

dude is smart and has an intriguing combination of skills. if he came into the league looking like a scorer, people would be a lot higher on him. i think teams would want to trade for him because they wouldn't mind waiting to see if that part of his game pans out over time. if if does, he's a problem.

i don't put too much stake into individual plays or even performances. but he boofed it on rudy off the dribble. if he becomes even a threat for that and settles into a jumper, things change for him.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

I don't see Frank making it as a PG which was his homerun best case scenario so at this point I'd be happy if he becomes a good 3 &D guy at least. Guys have busted much worse FWIW. No shame. The draft is still a huge crapshoot.

right. i think frank has an established floor that is still useful in the NBA. my thoughts on the draft seem to be different than most. i think it's wrong to put much expectation on ANY draft pick, even #1. it's ALL risk. you're never guaranteed to have an NBA player. you just got the rights to someone you can hopefully develop into one. i think pretty much any draft pick that results in an NBA player with a career that extends past the rookie deal is a success. but that's just my perspective.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

Ariza ended up being a top 10 player from his draft. I hope for more, but at #9 a solid starter is about what you can expect from history. If Frank can be a solid starter 3D type on Arizas level, i would take that at this point.

[Thugger HBC]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

I don’t think him being a 3 and D would make him a bust of a draft pick. He was picked 8th not 1-5. At 8th you’re given the freedom to experiment and the Knicks went with a kid with a ridiculous wingspan, and a tenacious defender who they hoped would develop on the offensive side of the ball. If he becomes a serviceable 3 and D in this league he’d be a valuable role player on any team.

And that would be a player a team wouldn't invest in, but merely a journey man that sticks around for few years on several teams.

Using the logic of “Trevor Ariza was a second round pick” is silly. Manu Ginobli and Draymond Green were also 2nd round picks that doesn’t mean you’ll find player of their caliber every season in the second round. If re-drafted Trevor would’ve certainly been a first round pick.

I think you understand the point, you just don't want to accept it.

3&D types are commonly found in the 2nd round. Guys like Manu and Green arent' so the comparison makes no sense. A3&D type drafted lotto is a bust all day.

3 and D players don’t stick because they aren’t all stars but they have an important role in this league. Otto Porter got the max for being just a 3 and D. Courtney Lee and many others got paid for being just that.

They don't stick around because they aren't pieces you build around. They are situational players, role players. Doesn't mean they are bad, but they aren't guys you build a roster around, offer huge amounts of money to either.

Otto Porter's contract shouldn't be the bar, nor a quality reference. His deal is awful. lee's deal is ok, he's just older.

[mpharris36]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

I think his playmaking right now is his best offensive trait so I don't see the whole 3/D player when he already can run an offense and has solid passing vision. To become a 3/D he's going to have to be able to shoot it...which he is really struggling to do that.

So I don't see him strictly as 3/D because its not like he needs to add playmaking (he can improve there) but he already runs the P&R nicely. It's really his shot that is holding him back offensively right now. No one respects it.

You have to be honest. Frank isn't a playmaker right now. He's basic at best and that's being generous.

I need to find the stats but I think most of his P&R ball handler stats are solid. I mean he's not CP3...but he's also not a Patrick Beverly or Avery Bradley in terms of zero playmaking either. The shot right now really limits him. Which we need to see improvement on.

[MaseInYourFace]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

I don't see Frank making it as a PG which was his homerun best case scenario so at this point I'd be happy if he becomes a good 3 &D guy at least. Guys have busted much worse FWIW. No shame. The draft is still a huge crapshoot.

right. i think frank has an established floor that is still useful in the NBA. my thoughts on the draft seem to be different than most. i think it's wrong to put much expectation on ANY draft pick, even #1. it's ALL risk. you're never guaranteed to have an NBA player. you just got the rights to someone you can hopefully develop into one. i think pretty much any draft pick that results in an NBA player with a career that extends past the rookie deal is a success. but that's just my perspective.

Yeah I generally agree although occasionally there are guys that are can't miss types.

[Thugger HBC]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

Ariza ended up being a top 10 player from his draft. I hope for more, but at #9 a solid starter is about what you can expect from history. If Frank can be a solid starter 3D type on Arizas level, i would take that at this point.

But you wouldn't keep him around very long, which is the point. Those types don't stay on teams long, and it would be very unlikely if Frank did turn into an Ariza type that it would happen here. Even for Ariza it took roughly 5 years to be a solid contributor. he actually was a good piece for the champion Lakers and even then he stayed 2 years there.

[mpharris36]

i don't get the ariza comps at all because ariza had no handle or playamaking. If your going to go player comparison Batums seems more appropriate right now. He wont be a lead playmaker on a team...but he can be a secondary playmaker with the ability to defend 3 positions.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I don't see Frank making it as a PG which was his homerun best case scenario so at this point I'd be happy if he becomes a good 3 &D guy at least. Guys have busted much worse FWIW. No shame. The draft is still a huge crapshoot.

right. i think frank has an established floor that is still useful in the NBA. my thoughts on the draft seem to be different than most. i think it's wrong to put much expectation on ANY draft pick, even #1. it's ALL risk. you're never guaranteed to have an NBA player. you just got the rights to someone you can hopefully develop into one. i think pretty much any draft pick that results in an NBA player with a career that extends past the rookie deal is a success. but that's just my perspective.

Yeah I generally agree although occasionally there are guys that are can't miss types.

agreed. every so often there's some undeniable talent/competitor we can pretty safely assume will be special as a pro too. and my point is more about the rarity of those guys. they're exactly why you want to pick high.

[MaseInYourFace]

i don't get the ariza comps at all because ariza had no handle or playamaking. If your going to go player comparison Batums seems more appropriate right now. He wont be a lead playmaker on a team...but he can be a secondary playmaker with the ability to defend 3 positions.

Batum is a better comparison I would agree. Comparisons are sketchy to begin with though.

[Thugger HBC]

i don't get the ariza comps at all because ariza had no handle or playamaking. If your going to go player comparison Batums seems more appropriate right now. He wont be a lead playmaker on a team...but he can be a secondary playmaker with the ability to defend 3 positions.

I used Batum in my post earlier as well, but scaled it down because folks admitted they'd be happy with Frank as an Ariza type.

Honestly though how much would pay for either type, because Frank is only 2-3 years away from receiving a new deal.

[Phish Tank]

Frank still has time, but he has to develop much better than he has. Frank being just a 3 & D player is essentially a bust of a draft pick. 3&D can be found in the 2nd round. That's Dameyean Dotson, a second round pick. Those guys don't even stay on team that long unless they are elite at what they do. A team shouldn't invest in that.

Ariza seems to be the comparison lately. He's a role player, drafted in the 2nd round, outside of Houston he's bounced all over the league. No teams invests in a player like Ariza.

Batum would be a more acceptable growth goal. Even if Frank doesn't become a reliable scorer he needs to at least become a reliable playmaker, be able to knock down the 3 consistently and play premier defense.

Ariza ended up being a top 10 player from his draft. I hope for more, but at #9 a solid starter is about what you can expect from history. If Frank can be a solid starter 3D type on Arizas level, i would take that at this point.

But you wouldn't keep him around very long, which is the point. Those types don't stay on teams long, and it would be very unlikely if Frank did turn into an Ariza type that it would happen here. Even for Ariza it took roughly 5 years to be a solid contributor. he actually was a good piece for the champion Lakers and even then he stayed 2 years there.

I think what you've said is accurate for the most part.

I just don't think we're gonna see tangible development as we're getting blown out in all these games.

As long as the losses pile up and we start every game down 15 or so, we ain't gonna see anything.

Let's be honest though, has anyone really developed as of yet outside of Noah Vonleh? Have we really seen tangible development from guys like Mudiay or Trier or was their production merely a result of teams not giving a **** early on in the season?

Come tomorrow, we'll see that everyone's gonna regress and all of our players will resort to what they're comfortable at. Knox, scoring. Trier, scoring. Mudiay, well idk. Frank, maybe defense. And it'll be done inconsistently.

[Jeff Van Gully]

i don't get the ariza comps at all because ariza had no handle or playamaking. If your going to go player comparison Batums seems more appropriate right now. He wont be a lead playmaker on a team...but he can be a secondary playmaker with the ability to defend 3 positions.

i actually like batum as a comparison for frank in a lot of ways. never thought about that one. so obvious with the french connection and all.

frank could probably max out at 215lb or so... interesting.

[MaseInYourFace]

right. i think frank has an established floor that is still useful in the NBA. my thoughts on the draft seem to be different than most. i think it's wrong to put much expectation on ANY draft pick, even #1. it's ALL risk. you're never guaranteed to have an NBA player. you just got the rights to someone you can hopefully develop into one. i think pretty much any draft pick that results in an NBA player with a career that extends past the rookie deal is a success. but that's just my perspective.

Yeah I generally agree although occasionally there are guys that are can't miss types.

agreed. every so often there's some undeniable talent/competitor we can pretty safely assume will be special as a pro too. and my point is more about the rarity of those guys. they're exactly why you want to pick high.

Not sure there is anyone like that in this draft. I honestly don't see Zion that way despite the hype. It's a good draft though don't get me wrong.

[Jeff Van Gully]

i don't get the ariza comps at all because ariza had no handle or playamaking. If your going to go player comparison Batums seems more appropriate right now. He wont be a lead playmaker on a team...but he can be a secondary playmaker with the ability to defend 3 positions.

Batum is a better comparison I would agree. Comparisons are sketchy to begin with though.

yo... i think mike schmitz's assessment of frank has held up pretty well. kinda creepy to read back.

Not as well-known among the casual fan as the college guards, Ntilikina is a high-floor prospect who is destined for, at the very least, a long career as a versatile, two-way player with a high IQ and professional approach to the game. With the physical profile of an NBA two guard (6'6 with a 7-foot wingspan and a projectable frame) and a high motor, Ntilikina projects as a three-position defender who can make a spot up three, play off of closeouts, execute the simple pass while on or off the ball, and use his long strides to slither his way to the rim out of pick and roll. A high character young man by way of Belgium (the son of Rwandan refugees), Ntilikina should be viewed as more of a slow and steady' prospect who isn't likely to provide much wow factor out of the gates like a De'Aaron Fox or Dennis Smith might.

While we weren't able to see his full arsenal of skills during his season with Strasbourg, where he played mostly off the ball, Ntilikina showed what he can do on the ball with a huge 2016 U18 European Championships, yet he's still a couple years from having a big offensive impact at the NBA level.

Ntilikina plays somewhat of a calculated game, and he's not all that explosive or shifty with the ball, making it essential that he's brought along slowly on the offensive end, being used as a defender/secondary ball handler in his NBA minutes, while playing strictly on the ball in the D-League.

Ntilikina is eventually going to be rock solid in almost any situation, because he's a willing defender with length, possesses a strong feel for the game, has pro experience at the ripe age of 18, and has turned himself into a fairly reliable shooter with time and space. Where Ntilikina may falter is if he's thrust into a huge role as a lead guard early on in his career.

Slipping' a bit in the draft may end up benefitting Ntilikina, as he'll likely end up on a more competitive team where he can play a role, as his point guard polish and shot creation continue to develop. Landing in Charlotte and learning from Kemba Walker, fellow Frenchmen Nicolas Batum and well-respected head coach Steve Clifford could provide Ntilikina with the basis he needs, especially considering the Hornets strong relationship with its D-League team in Greensboro.

Miami would also be a great place for Ntilikina to grow as his work ethic and approach would be welcomed by Pat Riley and Erik Spoelstra, who run arguably the most regimented organization in the NBA. Playing for one of the top coaches in the NBA and learning from a fellow international guard like Goran Dragic could be a perfect recipe for Ntilikina. Milwaukee is reportedly very high on him as well, but would likely have to move up.

- Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Frank-Ntilikina-77051/ ©DraftExpress

edit: i also find it very interesting that milwaukee was reportedly high on frank. a milwaukee that had already reaped the rewards of developing giannis.

[kane2021]

I believe there’s a possibility he leaves the nba shortly after his rookie deal. I think it will be a mutual thing regardless if he’s with the knicks or not. I have a hard time seeing him sticking in this league. But more importantly I have a feeling he might not want to. Going back home, to be with family, to make similar money, in a league he’s better suited for seems like a no brainer.


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