Wizards 2019 Draft thread. (Tank for Zion, or OTHER NAME HERE)

[JWizmentality]

No. Just no. Enough of the lanky, awkward moving players. From Jared Jeffries, to Otto Porter. Zion or bust.

[queridiculo]

Guy I really like is Gonzaga's Rui Hachimura as PF or small ball 5.

Reminds me a bit of Antetokounmpo with his ability to handle the rock and get to the hoop at that size, and while he's a bit of a project he's got great instincts and is an incredibly smooth athlete for a big.

Great feet, slides well on defense and has impeccable timing on challenging shooters.

I think the kid is going to turn some heads when he goes pro.

Watch on YouTube

- check the sequence at 3:04. some incredible defense against a guard, great slide and recovery after getting turned inside out.
- same at 3:45, really understands the angles on defense, the way he opens his hips to recover after biting on the inside out is impressive.

[JWizmentality]

Guy I really like is Gonzaga's Rui Hachimura as PF or small ball 5.

Reminds me a bit of Antetokounmpo with his ability to handle the rock and get to the hoop at that size, and while he's a bit of a project he's got great instincts and is an incredibly smooth athlete for a big.

Great feet, slides well on defense and has impeccable timing on challenging shooters.

I think the kid is going to turn some heads when he goes pro.

Watch on YouTube

- check the sequence at 3:04. some incredible defense against a guard, great slide and recovery after getting turned inside out.
- same at 3:45, really understands the angles on defense, the way he opens his hips to recover after biting on the inside out is impressive.

Wow, that kid is impressive. Giannis is a good comparison.

[queridiculo]

Wow, that kid is impressive. Giannis is a good comparison.

Played baseball as a kid and didn't turn to basketball until middle school.

Sometimes these relatively unknown basketball nations turn out some generational talent, maybe Hachimura is that guy for Japan, kind of like Nowitzki back in the day, Gianni's a few years back or Doncic just last year.

Barely spoke any english when he came over but he seems to have made the transition and is really blossoming in his third year with Gonzaga.

[The Consiglieri]

Trying not to be jaded that as the roof caves in on rebuild III for idiot EG, we crater in the run up to a seemingly craptacular draft.

We really need to do this thing right. Any general thoughts on how deep this draft will be in elite difference making players? I haven't been paying as much attention as in years past (been swallowed whole by dynasty fantasy football and the inept rebuild the USMNT has attempted since the debacle in Couva).

Watch on YouTube

I'm aware of Zion and understand he's a lock to go #1, my concern is what happens when we don't win the lottery. Is there a strong second grouping of players beyond Bol (I'm not interested in that physical type, it just screams career injury problems to me).

[AFM]

bro I aint never done seen a black japanese guy before his parents probably conceived him while watching Rush Hour

[I_Like_Dirt]

Basically in a league that is moving towards Positionless basketball, you want a whole team of Kawhi Leonards. Players who can dominate at both ends of the floor and not just match up but overwhelm whatever player they are faced against. No matter the 'position'. Zion is that player in this draft.

I think Barrett is that player in this draft. Zion isn't the player that will be able to flip to any position on either end of the floor so easily. He's going to be closer to the Amare/Griffin/Barkley part of the spectrum in the pros. Doesn't mean Zion should or shouldn't go first overall, but he isn't the positionless superpower you're suggesting.

[doclinkin]

Basically in a league that is moving towards Positionless basketball, you want a whole team of Kawhi Leonards. Players who can dominate at both ends of the floor and not just match up but overwhelm whatever player they are faced against. No matter the 'position'. Zion is that player in this draft.

I think Barrett is that player in this draft. Zion isn't the player that will be able to flip to any position on either end of the floor so easily. He's going to be closer to the Amare/Griffin/Barkley part of the spectrum in the pros. Doesn't mean Zion should or shouldn't go first overall, but he isn't the positionless superpower you're suggesting.

I agree Barrett is also a multitool player. Already skilled and ready to play. I think Zion's strength and athleticism means his upside lets him match against players significantly taller if not larger. Basically while Barrett is ahead of Zion and will reach his peak quicker, I've never seen a player with Zion's combo of compact power, density, quick twitch reactions, so that I have no idea what his upside may be.

The coachability factor. I've been surprised by his passing and feel for the game and the humility to play along side players who are also talented. We have seen players with incredible athleticism who flamed out, but Zion has already made tweaks to his game. Amare, and Barkley didn't display the handle that he does at this age. The passing. The recognition. Griffin, maybe, but Griffin has an arrogance that I don't see in Zion, where I get the feel the kid appreciates the game and despite having been a superstar since his junior year of high school he is willing to be a teammate and student of the game. To add to his game and improve. That is how potential is realized. Constant improvement.

But for real, you wouldn't take Blake Griffin with a crossover and better defense? And fewer fights started? If Blake Griffin were in this draft I'd take him.

[Wiz99]

bro I aint never done seen a black japanese guy before his parents probably conceived him while watching Rush Hour

“Which one of y’all kicked me?”

[Ruzious]

Guy I really like is Gonzaga's Rui Hachimura as PF or small ball 5.

Reminds me a bit of Antetokounmpo with his ability to handle the rock and get to the hoop at that size, and while he's a bit of a project he's got great instincts and is an incredibly smooth athlete for a big.

Great feet, slides well on defense and has impeccable timing on challenging shooters.

I think the kid is going to turn some heads when he goes pro.

Watch on YouTube

- check the sequence at 3:04. some incredible defense against a guard, great slide and recovery after getting turned inside out.
- same at 3:45, really understands the angles on defense, the way he opens his hips to recover after biting on the inside out is impressive.

I remember seeing him 2 years ago and seeing he's got some good natural scoring ability, but he's only so-so at most things and not particularly big or athletic. But every time I've seen him since, it looks like he's a little better at everthing, and he's defivintely worked on his body - he's so much stronger than he used to be. And yeah, there's a similarity there to Giannis - who was a fairly skinny raw player with some interesting skills as a rookie at Milwaukee - but had an unmatched work ethic. He doesn't have the crazy length/athleticism combo that Giannis has, but he's become a much better all-around prospect and more of an athlete than I thought he'd be, and he can flat out score.

[I_Like_Dirt]

Basically while Barrett is ahead of Zion and will reach his peak quicker, I've never seen a player with Zion's combo of compact power, density, quick twitch reactions, so that I have no idea what his upside may be.

The coachability factor. I've been surprised by his passing and feel for the game and the humility to play along side players who are also talented. We have seen players with incredible athleticism who flamed out, but Zion has already made tweaks to his game. Amare, and Barkley didn't display the handle that he does at this age. The passing. The recognition. Griffin, maybe, but Griffin has an arrogance that I don't see in Zion, where I get the feel the kid appreciates the game and despite having been a superstar since his junior year of high school he is willing to be a teammate and student of the game. To add to his game and improve. That is how potential is realized. Constant improvement.

I don't think flaming out is going to be an issue for Zion. His athleticism is too much. Griffin didn't have that same arrogance he does now at a young age. It doesn't seem uncommon for players to gain that arrogance as they get older, or perhaps to put it better, for their arrogance to start manifesting itself differently.

You're never going to get a perfect comparison for any prospect but I picked those guys for a reason. I'm also not quite sure if you're understating some of those other guys or overstating Zion. Barkley was an absolutely unreal athlete who was averaging 23/15/5 and leading the league in TS% in his 3rd season. It was a different league back then so he wasn't challenged to figure out his 3-point range the same way he would be today but he had range and hit a few 3s even in his day, shooting 34% from 3 in his best season.

The concern I have with Zion is that he's too physically dominant. He simply doesn't have to be intuitive. Occasionally you get a Lebron from those ranks but that's really, really rare and I don't quite see Lebron's level of all-around awesomeness in Zion. Zion is still going to be able to overwhelm opponents in the NBA, too. He's that good. That also has it's downside. The longer he waits to evolve his game the less likely he is to actually reach his potential. The superstars of the modern game are all players that have continued learning and changing their games to evolve as the game has evolved and adapt to any potential challenge they might face. Zion's physical abilities and current skillset are enough that I'm more confident he will be a star than any other player in the draft (health permitting). I'm less confident in his ability to be a superstar than some of the others out there because he's basically too good too soon, if that makes sense.

And there are a few signs there already, at least in my view. He's only averaging 26 mpg right now. Part of that is his team is that good but Barrett and Tre Jones are both averaging significantly more minutes for the same team. I'm not sure if it's conditioning or matchups or a combination of both but it's pretty clear coach K believes that he isn't ready to play that many minutes just yet, either.

[Ruzious]

Btw, as crazy talented Duke is, I think Gonzaga is right up there in talent. Killian Tillie has been out for the season so far, but if he's taken the off-time to work on his body and getting stronger, it might be worth it, because he's a 3 point shooting good defensive PF that just needs to get stronger. Brandon Clarke is the most fun to watch Gonzaga player, but at maybe 6'8 215 PF, folks doubt he has an NBA position. Meanwhile, he just keeps on producing at a tremendous rate. Maybe he can be a Dennis Rodman type in the NBA. Zach Norvell, Jr is a prototypical shooting guard who just needs a bit of improvement on his 3 ball to be a sure 1st rounder. And of course, Rui has develeoped into a legit #1 offensive option. When they need a bucket (which isn't often), they run the offense through him.

[dckingsfan]

....

Hey Ruz, does this list look right? BTW, I think Doumbouya is ranked too high... my only input.

https://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft

If so, it looks like SG is the most available position...

[pcbothwel]

Little is a top 7 talent and putting langford above him is laughable. Romeo will be a good shooter... and nothing else. No emotion, no defense, no rebounding, no passing/creating... Think Allen Crabbe

[trast66]

We should avoid drafting Bol Bol. The guy blocks shots but can't move well, from parts of 2 games I saw anyway. And he already has a foot injury. Maybe some teams with multiple picks should take a chance on that guy, but we should stay away.

Unless we move up in lottery we should target a solid wing like DeAndre Hunter, Keldon Johnson, or Okpala. The 3 Duke guys and Little I assume will be gone by our pick. No point guards, no centers need apply unless we somehow trade Wall.

[jangles86]

RJ Barrett is the absolute certainty of this draft. He will be a 25ppg scorer for the next decade.

If I had the number 1 pick I’d take Barrett without hesitation.

[doclinkin]

Basically while Barrett is ahead of Zion and will reach his peak quicker, I've never seen a player with Zion's combo of compact power, density, quick twitch reactions, so that I have no idea what his upside may be.

The coachability factor. I've been surprised by his passing and feel for the game and the humility to play along side players who are also talented. We have seen players with incredible athleticism who flamed out, but Zion has already made tweaks to his game. Amare, and Barkley didn't display the handle that he does at this age. The passing. The recognition. Griffin, maybe, but Griffin has an arrogance that I don't see in Zion, where I get the feel the kid appreciates the game and despite having been a superstar since his junior year of high school he is willing to be a teammate and student of the game. To add to his game and improve. That is how potential is realized. Constant improvement.

I don't think flaming out is going to be an issue for Zion. His athleticism is too much. Griffin didn't have that same arrogance he does now at a young age. It doesn't seem uncommon for players to gain that arrogance as they get older, or perhaps to put it better, for their arrogance to start manifesting itself differently.

You're never going to get a perfect comparison for any prospect but I picked those guys for a reason. I'm also not quite sure if you're understating some of those other guys or overstating Zion. Barkley was an absolutely unreal athlete who was averaging 23/15/5 and leading the league in TS% in his 3rd season. It was a different league back then so he wasn't challenged to figure out his 3-point range the same way he would be today but he had range and hit a few 3s even in his day, shooting 34% from 3 in his best season.

The concern I have with Zion is that he's too physically dominant. He simply doesn't have to be intuitive. Occasionally you get a Lebron from those ranks but that's really, really rare and I don't quite see Lebron's level of all-around awesomeness in Zion. Zion is still going to be able to overwhelm opponents in the NBA, too. He's that good. That also has it's downside. The longer he waits to evolve his game the less likely he is to actually reach his potential. The superstars of the modern game are all players that have continued learning and changing their games to evolve as the game has evolved and adapt to any potential challenge they might face. Zion's physical abilities and current skillset are enough that I'm more confident he will be a star than any other player in the draft (health permitting). I'm less confident in his ability to be a superstar than some of the others out there because he's basically too good too soon, if that makes sense.

And there are a few signs there already, at least in my view. He's only averaging 26 mpg right now. Part of that is his team is that good but Barrett and Tre Jones are both averaging significantly more minutes for the same team. I'm not sure if it's conditioning or matchups or a combination of both but it's pretty clear coach K believes that he isn't ready to play that many minutes just yet, either.

Check the stats then:
Unreal athlete Charles Barkley as a freshman.
Blake Griffin at Oklahoma
Zion as a freshman

Zion: same minutes, same rebounding (despite superior talent next to him), more blocks, more assists, better FT%, fewer fouls, better FG%, and averaging over 2 steals a game.

I had the same question marks about Zion when he was dominating high school kids. Every few years you get a James 'Flight" White who astounds with their hops and airtime etc, but who has no effect otherwise since they have no feel for the game. BBIQ is as much a talent as the physical measurables. I'm always skeptical of the physical prodigies and look for evidence of the 'love of the game' stats that show they care more about the win/loss column than their own personal fame. If the mental aspect were not key then JaVale McGee would have been a HOF player (I've never seen a player as long and athletic as Epic Vale, you will never see anyone match his dunks from the contest where Blake Griffin and the sponsors prop robbed him of his rightful glory).

But so far I see little of that in Zion. I've been surprised at how he has adapted to playing with players almost as heavily hyped as he is. He has no problem sharing the ball. No problem deferring in the moment, and a few times a game he surprises with his heads up recognition of the game. The right pass. A key deflection. A shift to cut off an angle.

The stats I look for as BBIQ evidence: defensive rebounding (relative to position, especially from non Bigs), assists (from non ball handlers) and steals (from bigs especially). This last is where I can see Zion stand out. Defensive boards are going to be easy for him, even sharing the stat with a player like Barrett who hoovers up many boards as well. Ditto assists, here he could accidentally luck into a few assists a game simply by the ridiculous and unfair talent level of the players around him. But the steals jump out to me. The games and highlights Ive seen Zion has forced steals not by gambling off his man but by quick hands and smarts and reaction time. He sees the game. And interviews suggest he is humble and eager to learn and willing to defer and not let his ego get in the way. I liked Blake Griffin for his athletic arrogance, but he absolutely displayed it on court in college. Picking up techs and initiating fights and playing dirty, playing bully ball, happy to play the villain role. Zion hasn't shown that.

So far he has answered all but one question of mine going into the season: can he hit an outside shot. This is the one area where I'm looking for evidence that he has been working. And its the key reason he is playing fewer minutes under Coach K. He needs a three point shot. If not then teams can pack it in and play off him and sets become trickier for other players. Still. His FT% suggests his shot isn't irreparably broken. His jumper from closer in looks competent, he just never has needed an outside shot before. He needs the reps, and the desire to work on it outside of games. From hearing him talk he seems like the sort who will absolutely put in the effort to improve there.

Look we'd be in a great position if we had the lotto option to decide between Barrett and Zion. Both will be successful in the league. And Barrett will probably be a plug and play star wherever he lands. I'm just saying, if we are talking raw talent equivalent to: 'Charles Barkley with quicker lateral footwork and better hands' or 'Blake Griffin, with better defense' -- then I'm taking that player every time.

[FAH1223]

Read on Twitter

[pcbothwel]

RJ Barrett is the absolute certainty of this draft. He will be a 25ppg scorer for the next decade.

If I had the number 1 pick I’d take Barrett without hesitation.

Yeah, you dont turn down a certain Grant Hill (more efficient due to 3's) for a potential Charles Barkley.

[Ruzious]

....

Hey Ruz, does this list look right? BTW, I think Doumbouya is ranked too high... my only input.

https://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft

If so, it looks like SG is the most available position...

Hoopshype has an aggregate mock with a bunch of individual mocks displayed.

https://hoopshype.com/2018/12/17/zion-williamson-mock-draft-college-basketball-rumors-updates/

Of those listed, I'd rate ESPN and Athletic as the best of them, but there seems to be a lot of copy-catting among them. I'd rate NBAdraft.net higher if they updated their mocks more often. Actually, their mock right now is probably more in line with my thinking than the others. The others have Nassir Little either 3rd or 4th, and I wouldn't even put him in the lottery.