Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

[Jeff Van Gully]

You have to be honest. Frank isn't a playmaker right now. He's basic at best and that's being generous.

i think his lack of scoring takes away from playmaking opportunities. but the kid has vision and passing skills. even fancy passes when he wants.

it's crazy because there was a period last season when he was kinda loose out there and throwing some crazy passes over distance... in traffic. maybe he was being underestimated? maybe KP opened things up more? i don't know. but i don't know why his playmaking needs to be diminished.

Watch on YouTube

This seems to be the exact type of game you’re referring to. Everyone was so hyped.

definitely one of such games. breen uses the word "poise." so composed in his first game. i don't know how he gets back into this zone, because he could grow from there.

not excusing his lack of fire or whatever, but he's also been shuffled around and asked to do a lot of things. but i don't see why not allow him to mature as a point.

as the DX post says, even if it was off ball in the NBA and strictly on-ball in the d-league (g-league now)... it'd be a plan and a commitment to his development.

everyone knows i'm rooting for the kid. if he doesn't pan out, it happens. but when you don't give your own a chance?

[Thugger HBC]

Switching gears a notch, but is the consensus that Frank hasn't gotten chances? I can't say that. Frank imo should have seized those moments when he was starting in the SF position. He could have used that similar to how....drumroll.....Batum plays. Frank was too busy thinking and deferring. That's not a good mindset for any position let alone pg.

[prophet_of_rage]

i don't get the ariza comps at all because ariza had no handle or playamaking. If your going to go player comparison Batums seems more appropriate right now. He wont be a lead playmaker on a team...but he can be a secondary playmaker with the ability to defend 3 positions.

Batum is a better comparison I would agree. Comparisons are sketchy to begin with though.

Frank needs to add rebounding, advanced playmaking and some scoring to play like the best version of Batum. He needs to rebound to play like this year's version.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

[Phish Tank]

Switching gears a notch, but is the consensus that Frank hasn't gotten chances? I can't say that. Frank imo should have seized those moments when he was starting in the SF position. He could have used that similar to how....drumroll.....Batum plays. Frank was too busy thinking and deferring. That's not a good mindset for any position let alone pg.

the question really is why does he think and defer? If we see flashes of his game (which none of us can deny), then why is it the case?

[Jeff Van Gully]

Switching gears a notch, but is the consensus that Frank hasn't gotten chances? I can't say that. Frank imo should have seized those moments when he was starting in the SF position. He could have used that similar to how....drumroll.....Batum plays. Frank was too busy thinking and deferring. That's not a good mindset for any position let alone pg.

if you're referring to what i said, i don't think frank has been given a consistent opportunity to play through the bumps and bruises a rookie/very young player could.

i'm also not saying coaches didn't have their reasons for pulling him. but the kid's been jerked around a bit. i'd love to see him get the keys for an uninterrupted stretch and see what happens.

[prophet_of_rage]

really good defensive players that are competent on defense are really tough to find. I think its much easier to find a trier type that can score the basketball but have other limitations then someone that can defend at a high level and is a positive on offense. Right now Frank is clearly not a positive on offense but the goal in his development is hopefully to get him there to be the ultimate glue piece for a good team. I think thats pretty simple to me.

I agree with your premise on Frank but it's easy to find guys off the scrap heap who can give you good defensive effort on the perimeter. The hardest part is finding the guys who can do both. But guys who contribute to offense always get paid more especially on the perimeter.

Guys like David Nwaba, McCaw, McKinnie lingered into the season or right before the season before being signed and they were signed for practically nothing. If they were similarly talented on the offensive end they would have gotten paid more. Also most teams use their 2 way spots as ways to try and find cheap defensive talent on the perimeter because it's the easiest thing to find and plug in. Big men are really the only position that gets treated slightly differently IMO

i agree with everything you're saying except the concept that even one-way NBA perimeter defenders are the easiest thing to find. i really don't see the same number of people committing themselves to defense, even to secure professional careers.

i think there are millions of guys shooting in the gym trying to score their way into the NBA. there's a tighter bottleneck for them. there's a constraint. the defensive players stand out and are readily available when a team says they want one.

so they're easy to identify, and they're willing to take a job. but they're not more frequent in existence to their one-way offensive player counter parts. there are steve novaks and chris copelands EVERYWHERE. all over the world. people who can defend at an NBA level are special, but not market valued.

It's the system. Colleges do not recruit perimeter players for defence. They will find premier scorers and give the best one the ball the others become defenders. With so much drafting after a year or two nobody is a good defender any more and the rules don't care about defence so defensive perimeter players while rare and not an important commodity. The NBA is about defending in schemes, showing in the lanes and chasing players off the three point line.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

[mpharris36]

i don't get the ariza comps at all because ariza had no handle or playamaking. If your going to go player comparison Batums seems more appropriate right now. He wont be a lead playmaker on a team...but he can be a secondary playmaker with the ability to defend 3 positions.

Batum is a better comparison I would agree. Comparisons are sketchy to begin with though.

Frank needs to add rebounding, advanced playmaking and some scoring to play like the best version of Batum. He needs to rebound to play like this year's version.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

and now we need to remember frank is 20 and batum didn't start playmaking until he was 24

[prophet_of_rage]

just look at burke last year or mudiay/trier this year...we have found 3 guys for basically nothing...that contribute on offense but the one thing that has stayed consistent is our defense is atrocious.

Our offence is consistently atrocious too.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

[mpharris36]

just look at burke last year or mudiay/trier this year...we have found 3 guys for basically nothing...that contribute on offense but the one thing that has stayed consistent is our defense is atrocious.

Our offence is consistently atrocious too.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

it wasn't atrocious when KP was playing. And the idea is KP will be back, we should have a top pick, and we should be signing a FA....basically THjr goes from being the top option to the 4th option. That is a drastic change in offensive output.

[HarthorneWingo]

just look at burke last year or mudiay/trier this year...we have found 3 guys for basically nothing...that contribute on offense but the one thing that has stayed consistent is our defense is atrocious.

Our offence is consistently atrocious too.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

it wasn't atrocious when KP was playing and Jeff was coaching. And the idea is KP will be back, we should have a top pick, and we should be signing a FA....basically THjr goes from being the top option to the 4th option. That is a drastic change in offensive output.

[prophet_of_rage]

just look at burke last year or mudiay/trier this year...we have found 3 guys for basically nothing...that contribute on offense but the one thing that has stayed consistent is our defense is atrocious.

Our offence is consistently atrocious too.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

it wasn't atrocious when KP was playing. And the idea is KP will be back, we should have a top pick, and we should be signing a FA....basically THjr goes from being the top option to the 4th option. That is a drastic change in offensive output.

So getting good players makes you better.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

[prophet_of_rage]

Batum is a better comparison I would agree. Comparisons are sketchy to begin with though.

Frank needs to add rebounding, advanced playmaking and some scoring to play like the best version of Batum. He needs to rebound to play like this year's version.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

and now we need to remember frank is 20 and batum didn't start playmaking until he was 24

You don't need to be old to rebound

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

[prophet_of_rage]

Batum is a better comparison I would agree. Comparisons are sketchy to begin with though.

Frank needs to add rebounding, advanced playmaking and some scoring to play like the best version of Batum. He needs to rebound to play like this year's version.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

and now we need to remember frank is 20 and batum didn't start playmaking until he was 24

Frank is Frank. Playing the comp game leads to disappointment.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

[Clyde Frazier]

Knicks top trios by net rating this season:

Dotson / Frank / Vonleh 196 min, +8.3

Dotson / THJ / Mitch 197 min, +4.6

Dotson / Frank / Mitch 192 min +4.5

Get mitch back and maybe try these guys together again, Fiz? Would it be that ludicrous to do that, Fiz?

Also, if THJ's foot doesn't work, maybe he shouldn't be playing 33.7 MPG over the last 16 games. In those 16 games, he's shot less than 40% from the field a whopping 10 times, and yet taking 15.2 shots per game.

[mpharris36]

Our offence is consistently atrocious too.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

it wasn't atrocious when KP was playing. And the idea is KP will be back, we should have a top pick, and we should be signing a FA....basically THjr goes from being the top option to the 4th option. That is a drastic change in offensive output.

So getting good players makes you better.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

correct as in any case but im not sure what that has to do with my point. We are probably going to get an influx in offensive talent via KP, a FA, and a draft pick. Our "defensive" minded role players will be more impactful when the team doesn't require them to do more offensively at the moment. It will make guys like THjr and Mudiay less important.

[mpharris36]

Frank needs to add rebounding, advanced playmaking and some scoring to play like the best version of Batum. He needs to rebound to play like this year's version.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

and now we need to remember frank is 20 and batum didn't start playmaking until he was 24

Frank is Frank. Playing the comp game leads to disappointment.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

frank isn't fully developed...no 20 year old is.

[whocares1]

Switching gears a notch, but is the consensus that Frank hasn't gotten chances? I can't say that. Frank imo should have seized those moments when he was starting in the SF position. He could have used that similar to how....drumroll.....Batum plays. Frank was too busy thinking and deferring. That's not a good mindset for any position let alone pg.

if you're referring to what i said, i don't think frank has been given a consistent opportunity to play through the bumps and bruises a rookie/very young player could.

i'm also not saying coaches didn't have their reasons for pulling him. but the kid's been jerked around a bit. i'd love to see him get the keys for an uninterrupted stretch and see what happens.

I think that’s the point. He won’t get an uninterrupted stretch of games because it doesn’t make his play better. It makes him worse. Not every basketball player learns in the same way. Not everyone has the mentality to continue shooting when they’re struggling. Right now Frank doesn’t have many moves offensively that he can consistently use so when his jumper is off, it all goes down hill for him.

[prophet_of_rage]

Knicks top trios by net rating this season:

Dotson / Frank / Vonleh 196 min, +8.3

Dotson / THJ / Mitch 197 min, +4.6

Dotson / Frank / Mitch 192 min +4.5

Get mitch back and maybe try these guys together again, Fiz? Would it be that ludicrous to do that, Fiz?

Also, if THJ's foot doesn't work, maybe he shouldn't be playing 33.7 MPG over the last 16 games. In those 16 games, he's shot less than 40% from the field a whopping 10 times, and yet taking 15.2 shots per game.

Who would be the fifth guy?

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

[Clyde Frazier]

Knicks top trios by net rating this season:

Dotson / Frank / Vonleh 196 min, +8.3

Dotson / THJ / Mitch 197 min, +4.6

Dotson / Frank / Mitch 192 min +4.5

Get mitch back and maybe try these guys together again, Fiz? Would it be that ludicrous to do that, Fiz?

Also, if THJ's foot doesn't work, maybe he shouldn't be playing 33.7 MPG over the last 16 games. In those 16 games, he's shot less than 40% from the field a whopping 10 times, and yet taking 15.2 shots per game.

Who would be the fifth guy?

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

Knox

[prophet_of_rage]

it wasn't atrocious when KP was playing. And the idea is KP will be back, we should have a top pick, and we should be signing a FA....basically THjr goes from being the top option to the 4th option. That is a drastic change in offensive output.

So getting good players makes you better.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

correct as in any case but im not sure what that has to do with my point. We are probably going to get an influx in offensive talent via KP, a FA, and a draft pick. Our "defensive" minded role players will be more impactful when the team doesn't require them to do more offensively at the moment. It will make guys like THjr and Mudiay less important.

5 guys who can shoot is the NBA now. The defence only guys will be even more of a liability if no one has to guard them to double our scorers. See GS's struggles against the Lakers. The Lakers defended steph, Klay and KFonly and let Green, Looney and anybody else beat them. It was a blow out.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk