Around the NBA 2

[thebuzzardman]

A relief for the Knicks players and fans.

Until we start pouring into pro and anti DSJ camps. Might be worse than the Frank arguments.

Anyway, it seems imminent.

Actually, I have a different thought. I bet if the Knicks trade with the Mavs (haven't checked if contracts work) it would be CLee and Frank for Matthews + DSJr. This assumes the Mavs want to do a "addition by subtraction" trade feeling that DSJr and Donic don't mix.

CLee is a "Play within the system, knock down open jumpers reliably" guy. Donic is the focal point of the Mavs offense. He'll be creating etc. Maybe they want the guy who can consistently knock down open shots after Donic finds them. Tammy is a ball in his hands, streaky scorer. Basically like bringing over less athletic, older, DSJr onto your team.

Not sure why the Mavs would want Tim, unless their coach is under the mistaken impression they can reign in his game. I think only the most alpha coaches can do it. Bud did, most coaches (Fizzle) can't.

That deal is short so I included Dotson to balance the deal. Knicks would be gaining cap space and arguably the better prospect based on popular opinion.

There’s probably even a chance we re-sign Wes in a win now move next summer.

Only teams taking THJ is if they send a far worse contract back. Over the summer I said THJ / LFT on MEM would make sense, where we would eat Parsons for 2 years and get a pick back. I still think we could do that deal and the idea was brought up Duncd On not too long ago. They’d probably love him there.

Yup. Nobody wants Tammy. Not at those $.

[dakomish23]

Actually, I have a different thought. I bet if the Knicks trade with the Mavs (haven't checked if contracts work) it would be CLee and Frank for Matthews + DSJr. This assumes the Mavs want to do a "addition by subtraction" trade feeling that DSJr and Donic don't mix.

CLee is a "Play within the system, knock down open jumpers reliably" guy. Donic is the focal point of the Mavs offense. He'll be creating etc. Maybe they want the guy who can consistently knock down open shots after Donic finds them. Tammy is a ball in his hands, streaky scorer. Basically like bringing over less athletic, older, DSJr onto your team.

Not sure why the Mavs would want Tim, unless their coach is under the mistaken impression they can reign in his game. I think only the most alpha coaches can do it. Bud did, most coaches (Fizzle) can't.

That deal is short so I included Dotson to balance the deal. Knicks would be gaining cap space and arguably the better prospect based on popular opinion.

There’s probably even a chance we re-sign Wes in a win now move next summer.

Only teams taking THJ is if they send a far worse contract back. Over the summer I said THJ / LFT on MEM would make sense, where we would eat Parsons for 2 years and get a pick back. I still think we could do that deal and the idea was brought up Duncd On not too long ago. They’d probably love him there.

Yup. Nobody wants Tammy. Not at those $.

Sounds like an awful comedy show. Too bad it’s reality for this franchise.

Who’s the THJ target this summer? Will it be Mudiay?

[Ray Williams]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/252090/LeBron-James-Winning-2016-Finals-Made-Me-Greatest-Player-Ever

This mofo is really full of himself. Stfu and sit the fk down. Kyrie won that one beotch .

[robillionaire]

The thing about being the goat is when you’re the goat you don’t need to constantly try to convince everyone

[Thugger HBC]

LeBron has a point. You can't call that season of GS team the greatest and then they lose to the Cavs where LeBron dominated all of them, and then say "he aint the greatest". LeBron is basing his comment on how some viewed that Golden state season.

I don't think he's saying "I'm the greatest ever" without any context. He's saying why because of a particular instance.

I don't agree of course, but I get where he's coming from.

[whocares1]

LeBron has a point. You can't call that season of GS team the greatest and then they lose to the Cavs where LeBron dominated all of them, and then say "he aint the greatest". LeBron is basing his comment on how some viewed that Golden state season.

I don't think he's saying "I'm the greatest ever" without any context. He's saying why because of a particular instance.

I don't agree of course, but I get where he's coming from.

Most basketball talking heads think Bulls were still a more dominating team. He also didn’t beat that team completely healthy nor was he the player that sealed it.

[Greenie]

Bogut out. Baited the fuq out of Draymond. LeBron whined his way to that ring...

[Greenie]

The thing about being the goat is when you’re the goat you don’t need to constantly try to convince everyone

Chris Brown tried this the other day saying he was great and people would understand when he’s gone...

[Dantares]

I have seen both LeBron and mj play in their primes. Honestly beating that warriors team is the greatest accomplishment either one of them has accomplished.

And I know that is true because I am 100% sure there is nobody in this thread that would argue ewing' s knicks, Barkley suns, payton's sonics, reggies pacers, Malone and Stockton's jazz, drexlers blazers, magic' s Lakers or even Isiah's pistons teams would be able to beat that warriors team. Jordan never played and beat a team as great as the warriors so LeBron has that accomplishment over him.

[RHODEY]

I have seen both LeBron and mj play in their primes. Honestly beating that warriors team is the greatest accomplishment either one of them has accomplished.

And I know that is true because I am 100% sure there is nobody in this thread that would argue ewing' s knicks, Barkley suns, payton's sonics, reggies pacers, Malone and Stockton's jazz, drexlers blazers, magic' s Lakers or even Isiah's pistons teams would be able to beat that warriors team. Jordan never played and beat a team as great as the warriors so LeBron has that accomplishment over him.

But the rules against playing defense are so different now so its tough to predict. Jordan in today's league might be able to average 40 a game...

[MaseInYourFace]

I have seen both LeBron and mj play in their primes. Honestly beating that warriors team is the greatest accomplishment either one of them has accomplished.

And I know that is true because I am 100% sure there is nobody in this thread that would argue ewing' s knicks, Barkley suns, payton's sonics, reggies pacers, Malone and Stockton's jazz, drexlers blazers, magic' s Lakers or even Isiah's pistons teams would be able to beat that warriors team. Jordan never played and beat a team as great as the warriors so LeBron has that accomplishment over him.

Warriors dominate in a completely different era of basketball. In this hypothetical scenario are we playing in the 90s era or this era? In NBA usually the team with the best player wins and Jordan is still the best player IMO.

PS: meant to add that I see Lebron stay getting all the credit for his titles but no way he wins that title with the Cavs without Kyrie.

[Thugger HBC]

I have seen both LeBron and mj play in their primes. Honestly beating that warriors team is the greatest accomplishment either one of them has accomplished.

And I know that is true because I am 100% sure there is nobody in this thread that would argue ewing' s knicks, Barkley suns, payton's sonics, reggies pacers, Malone and Stockton's jazz, drexlers blazers, magic' s Lakers or even Isiah's pistons teams would be able to beat that warriors team. Jordan never played and beat a team as great as the warriors so LeBron has that accomplishment over him.

Warriors dominate in a completely different era of basketball. In this hypothetical scenario are we playing in the 90s era or this era? In NBA usually the team with the best player wins and Jordan is still the best player IMO.

PS: meant to add that I see Lebron stay getting all the credit for his titles but no way he wins that title with the Cavs without Kyrie.

Best player on a team usually do get the credit. When people talk about why MJ is the goat they use team accomplishments to solidify it.

[spree2kawhi]

I have seen both LeBron and mj play in their primes. Honestly beating that warriors team is the greatest accomplishment either one of them has accomplished.

And I know that is true because I am 100% sure there is nobody in this thread that would argue ewing' s knicks, Barkley suns, payton's sonics, reggies pacers, Malone and Stockton's jazz, drexlers blazers, magic' s Lakers or even Isiah's pistons teams would be able to beat that warriors team. Jordan never played and beat a team as great as the warriors so LeBron has that accomplishment over him.

Warriors dominate in a completely different era of basketball. In this hypothetical scenario are we playing in the 90s era or this era? In NBA usually the team with the best player wins and Jordan is still the best player IMO.

PS: meant to add that I see Lebron stay getting all the credit for his titles but no way he wins that title with the Cavs without Kyrie.

Best player on a team usually do get the credit. When people talk about why MJ is the goat they use team accomplishments to solidify it.

This whole thing is ridiculous. LeBron is nowhere near the competitor Jordan, Kobe, Magic, Bird, or Russell were. He's a good baller. That's all. Really, that's it. He's not even second best. A quitter and this episode seals it once and for all. Should have stayed and tried again, but didn't see it, so he went to Hollywood. He has literally nothing on Shaq or Duncan, why are we even talking? He's an idiot, a cry baby. He wants to, but can't.

[thebuzzardman]

LeBron deserves to be in the "best all time" conversation, but it's hardly the slam dunk he seems to think it is. At all.
(if we are allowed to adjust players for era, which I do - some people don't)

[DOT]

LeBron deserves to be in the "best all time" conversation, but it's hardly the slam dunk he seems to think it is. At all.
(if we are allowed to adjust players for era, which I do - some people don't)

I say, he deserves to be in the conversation, but what he did in 2011 keeps him out of being the goat, while 2016 is a better accomplishment than anything MJ did

MJ, LeBron and Kareem are 1, 2, and 3 in really any order imo. They're all good enough that it's really impossible to have a concrete argument for or against any of them over the others. All have the raw numbers, titles, hardware, etc. I'm just interested to see if LeBron can break the scoring record, cause he's the only person that's even close

[spree2kawhi]

LeBron deserves to be in the "best all time" conversation, but it's hardly the slam dunk he seems to think it is. At all.
(if we are allowed to adjust players for era, which I do - some people don't)

I say, he deserves to be in the conversation, but what he did in 2011 keeps him out of being the goat, while 2016 is a better accomplishment than anything MJ did

MJ, LeBron and Kareem are 1, 2, and 3 in really any order imo. They're all good enough that it's really impossible to have a concrete argument for or against any of them over the others. All have the raw numbers, titles, hardware, etc. I'm just interested to see if LeBron can break the scoring record, cause he's the only person that's even close

How does he surpass Duncan on your list?

[DOT]

LeBron deserves to be in the "best all time" conversation, but it's hardly the slam dunk he seems to think it is. At all.
(if we are allowed to adjust players for era, which I do - some people don't)

I say, he deserves to be in the conversation, but what he did in 2011 keeps him out of being the goat, while 2016 is a better accomplishment than anything MJ did

MJ, LeBron and Kareem are 1, 2, and 3 in really any order imo. They're all good enough that it's really impossible to have a concrete argument for or against any of them over the others. All have the raw numbers, titles, hardware, etc. I'm just interested to see if LeBron can break the scoring record, cause he's the only person that's even close

How does he surpass Duncan on your list?

Duncan's peak wasn't as high, and was relatively short comparably

He was a great player for a long time, but wasn't dominant in the way you'd need to be to be considered a goat

[spree2kawhi]

I say, he deserves to be in the conversation, but what he did in 2011 keeps him out of being the goat, while 2016 is a better accomplishment than anything MJ did

MJ, LeBron and Kareem are 1, 2, and 3 in really any order imo. They're all good enough that it's really impossible to have a concrete argument for or against any of them over the others. All have the raw numbers, titles, hardware, etc. I'm just interested to see if LeBron can break the scoring record, cause he's the only person that's even close

How does he surpass Duncan on your list?

Duncan's peak wasn't as high, and was relatively short comparably

He was a great player for a long time, but wasn't dominant in the way you'd need to be to be considered a goat

You knew I'd disagree and I'm really convinced in that regard that while LeBron is typically overrated in the goat debate ever since coming out of highschool with so much hype, Duncan and Shaq are always underrated.

You cannot call those players less dominant than LeBron. That's just not true. If he really was so dominant, he could have eaten Klay and Steph or Dirk or Kobe for breakfast, but, you know, he couldn't at all. Literally not at all. On most days he couldn't get past Paul Pierce. I know that's provocative, but also true. Duncan and Shaq were unstoppable however, stopped LeBron too btw and should be ranked above him. So should Kobe. Neither of these players had less ability or are less accomplished. Look it up. LeBron comes in late in the top ten. Every championship he won was with stacked teams alongside two All-Stars in their prime (Bosh+Wade/Kyrie+Love), so he really shouldn't be in that discussion. That's simply a main stream idea, but not very advanced imo.

He also didn't have the greatest playoff run ever, that one goes to Dirk.

[DOT]

How does he surpass Duncan on your list?

Duncan's peak wasn't as high, and was relatively short comparably

He was a great player for a long time, but wasn't dominant in the way you'd need to be to be considered a goat

You knew I'd disagree and I'm really convinced in that regard that while LeBron is typically overrated in the goat debate ever since coming out of highschool with so much hype, Duncan and Shaq are always underrated.

You cannot call those players less dominant than LeBron. That's just not true. If he really was so dominant, he could have eaten Klay and Steph or Dirk or Kobe for breakfast, but, you know, he couldn't at all. Literally not at all. On most days he couldn't get past Paul Pierce. I know that's provocative, but also true. Duncan and Shaq were unstoppable however, stopped LeBron too btw and should be ranked above him. So should Kobe. Neither of these players had less ability or are less accomplished. Look it up. LeBron comes in late in the top ten. Every championship he won was with stacked teams alongside two All-Stars in their prime (Bosh+Wade/Kyrie+Love), so he really shouldn't be in that discussion. That's simply a main stream idea, but not very advanced imo.

He also didn't have the greatest playoff run ever, that one goes to Dirk.

I mean, you're penalizing LeBron for having great teammates, but not the others

Duncan had Parker and Ginobili, plus Pop. Shaq had Kobe, then Wade when he won, and Kobe had Shaq for the 3peat, then Gasol and Bynum. Ain't nobody on that list win by themselves besides Dirk, and he doesn't have nearly enough success to be considered above LeBron. Plus if you're gonna discredit LeBron for losing with superior teammates, both Kobe and Shaq had each other and still lost to the Pistons in 04 and the Spurs in 03 in their primes

It just seems like you decided your narrative in 2011 and haven't adjusted since. Just because an isn't popular doesn't make it true, and it doesn't make you smarter for thinking it

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[thebuzzardman]

I was gonna say, an argument can be made that LeBron isn't even above Kobe.

I have no skin in the game and honestly would have a hard time picking one over the other. I guess on size, flexibility of position and passing, I'd go Lebron, but then if LeBron, why not Magic? Ok, well, defense for one. Still.