2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[SlovenianDragon]

Ayton and Doncic are both on pace to win ROY. If you think one is ahead of the other at this point in time ur just being a fanboy

They play differently and have different skill sets. You really cant compare the two.

Theres a lot of season left to go. It will be a fun race.

[D3ko]

Ayton and Doncic are both on pace to win ROY. If you think one is ahead of the other at this point in time ur just being a fanboy

They play differently and have different skill sets. You really cant compare the two.

Theres a lot of season left to go. It will be a fun race.

Lol. No way.
You are the only fanboy.

Ayton is good for a pick number 1.

Doncic is awesome for number 3.

Ayton needs a team for him in order to being important.

Luka is the engine of his team.

Ayton is Kat/ Whiteside level of player. Nothing of being ashamed , but not a MVP .

With Luka you can believe on him or not. But you would think that the roof is higher. MVP is far away but you could see a path.

So as a Phoenix fanbase , you screw , you choose a pretty Mustang instead of a Tank, for going to the war.

You put a limit on your future.Not this year or next, just in the moment of giving Ayton a Max, right there you are the new Minnesota, Miami or Detroit.


Doncic is 3 level above anyone's else.

GET OVER IT.

LUKA IS THE ROY, No matter what.

Check the votes as a clear example.

[SlovenianDragon]

Ayton and Doncic are both on pace to win ROY. If you think one is ahead of the other at this point in time ur just being a fanboy

They play differently and have different skill sets. You really cant compare the two.

Theres a lot of season left to go. It will be a fun race.

Lol. No way.
You are the only fanboy.

Ayton is good for a pick number 1.

Doncic is awesome for number 3.

Ayton needs a team for him in order to being important.

Luka is the engine of his team.

Ayton is Kat/ Whiteside level of player. Nothing of being ashamed , but not a MVP .

With Luka you can believe on him or not. But you would think that the roof is higher. MVP is far away but you could see a path.

So as a Phoenix fanbase , you screw , you choose a pretty Mustang instead of a Tank, for going to the war.

You put a limit on your future.Not this year or next, just in the moment of giving Ayton a Max, right there you are the new Minnesota, Miami or Detroit.


Doncic is 3 level above anyone's else.

GET OVER IT.

LUKA IS THE ROY, No matter what.

Check the votes as a clear example.

lol okay fanboi

[Pachinko_]

Look at the voting man
Do you honestly believe that half the people on realgm are fanboys of a random kid from Slovenia?
LOL

[King Ken]

Look at the voting man
Do you honestly believe that half the people on realgm are fanboys of a random kid from Slovenia?
LOL

On the site overall, probably not. In this thread, unquestionably true. Maybe more than half. There is a massive difference between Doncic fans like me and many others and Doncic stans.

[Pachinko_]

And if all that irrational fanboyism is true how is it explained? Is it the hair, the accent, the shoes, what?

The guy is playing great man, it's really not that hard to see.

[LukaV]

Dončić is playing great, but Ayton is having a historic season in rookie terms as well. And there's 45+ games to go, anything can happen in the RotY race. Even as a big Dončić fan, it bothers me how some Dončić fans, in this thread and elsewhere on the internet, put down other 2018 rookies, both in terms of how well they're playing this season and in terms how much potential they have to grow. And yes, it's very possible that several years down the line Dončić isn't the best or even top 3 player from this rookie class. Just like it was near impossible to predict how well Dončić would start his NBA career, it's near impossible to predict how he and the other rookies will develop in the next 4-5 years.

[jwise44]

And if all that irrational fanboyism is true how is it explained? Is it the hair, the accent, the shoes, what?

The guy is playing great man, it's really not that hard to see.

I think they aren’t mutually exclusive

The guy is playing like a rookie of the year and he has super stans that go overboard

[gh123]

Dončić is playing great, but Ayton is having a historic season in rookie terms as well. And there's 45+ games to go, anything can happen in the RotY race. Even as a big Dončić fan, it bothers me how some Dončić fans, in this thread and elsewhere on the internet, put down other 2018 rookies, both in terms of how well they're playing this season and in terms how much potential they have to grow. And yes, it's very possible that several years down the line Dončić isn't the best or even top 3 player from this rookie class. Just like it was near impossible to predict how well Dončić would start his NBA career, it's near impossible to predict how he and the other rookies will develop in the next 4-5 years.

LOTS of people were saying he'll be amazing right from the start.

[3toheadmelo]

Read on Twitter

[The-Power]

Rookie-RAPM Update, based on shadow's RAPM (as of 12/26/2018):

Spoiler:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQdG8Zv84zqKEzETDjd8KPsClcw9bPETX9v_x_KEAxjv9NrFaWikOoiSaciy1jbMiygg2D-V8DUQn0O/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true

DISCLAIMER: Do not take the numbers at face value. This is neither a ranking of the players' overall goodness nor a ranking of the players' values as prospects.

Selection Criteria: ≥ 25 GP, ≥ 15 MPG

Name | ORAPM (Rank) | DRAPM (Rank) | RAPM (Rank)

Huerter, Kevin | 0.64 (105) | 1.04 (42) | 1.68 (44)
Brunson, Jalen | 0.42 (129) | 0.94 (51) | 1.36 (56)
Okogie, Josh | -0.06 (248) | 0.81 (65) | 0.75 (111)
Doncic, Luka | 0.92 (64) | -0.25 (306) | 0.67 (118)
Hutchison, C. | -0.49 (346) | 0.84 (62) | 0.35 (168)
Clark, Gary | 0.62 (108) | -0.50 (361) | 0.12 (211)
Brown, Bruce | -1.00 (408) | 1.10 (37) | 0.10 (214)
Bridges, Mikal | -0.71 (374) | 0.78 (71) | 0.07 (221)
Jackson, Jaren | -1.54 (446) | 1.60 (12) | 0.06 (223)
Gilg.-Alex., Shai | 0.29 (154) | -0.32 (321) | -0.03 (246)
Bridges, Miles | -0.11 (267) | -0.27 (314) | -0.38 (305)
Robinson, Mit. | -0.19 (294) | -0.32 (321) | -0.51 (318)
Ayton, DeAndre | -0.47 (344) | -0.16 (283) | -0.63 (335)
Carter, Wendell | -1.95 (459) | 0.39 (128) | -1.59 (429)
Bagley, Marvin | -0.32 (322) | -1.25 (444) | -1.57 (432)
Trier, Allonzo | -0.79 (386) | -1.22 (442) | -2.11 (445)
Shamet, Landry | -0.35 (326) | -1.83 (460) | -2.18 (448)
Young, Trae | -1.38 (437) | -1.70 (459) | -3.08 (460)
Knox, Kevin | -0.72 (375) | -2.41 (467) | -3.13 (461)
Bamba, Mo | -2.67 (467) | -0.98 (424) | -3.65 (463)
Sexton, Collin | -1.60 (449) | -2.22 (465) | -3.82 (464)

(Ranking out of 468 Players (Total))

[LukaV]

Dončić is playing great, but Ayton is having a historic season in rookie terms as well. And there's 45+ games to go, anything can happen in the RotY race. Even as a big Dončić fan, it bothers me how some Dončić fans, in this thread and elsewhere on the internet, put down other 2018 rookies, both in terms of how well they're playing this season and in terms how much potential they have to grow. And yes, it's very possible that several years down the line Dončić isn't the best or even top 3 player from this rookie class. Just like it was near impossible to predict how well Dončić would start his NBA career, it's near impossible to predict how he and the other rookies will develop in the next 4-5 years.

LOTS of people were saying he'll be amazing right from the start.

Sure, but it was near impossible to predict that, given the differences between Euroleague and NBA. I watched a lot of his games before he came over and while I hoped he'd be great from the start, I was also acknowledging the possibility that he wouldn't get off to a good start. And NBA history gives us enough stories one way or the other for any of us, especially us fans as outsiders, to not be able to reliably predict what will happen in a player's rookie season and in the next several seasons. That's why we have so many "busts" and so many "steals" in the draft.

Yes, we can hope and predict, but if we were really certain/convinced, we'd be (better off) betting a lot of money instead of posting our thoughts here

So for all those certain that Dončić is leaps and bounds better than every other rookie in this class and will continue to be so throughout the next 5 or so years, go put your money where your mouth is with betting companies and your friends&coworkers, and let the rest of us enjoy the ride with this amazing rookie class.

[Jazztop]

Ayton and Doncic are both on pace to win ROY. If you think one is ahead of the other at this point in time ur just being a fanboy

They play differently and have different skill sets. You really cant compare the two.

Theres a lot of season left to go. It will be a fun race.

Lol. No way.
You are the only fanboy.

Ayton is good for a pick number 1.

Doncic is awesome for number 3.

Ayton needs a team for him in order to being important.

Luka is the engine of his team.

Ayton is Kat/ Whiteside level of player. Nothing of being ashamed , but not a MVP .

With Luka you can believe on him or not. But you would think that the roof is higher. MVP is far away but you could see a path.

So as a Phoenix fanbase , you screw , you choose a pretty Mustang instead of a Tank, for going to the war.

You put a limit on your future.Not this year or next, just in the moment of giving Ayton a Max, right there you are the new Minnesota, Miami or Detroit.


Doncic is 3 level above anyone's else.

GET OVER IT.

LUKA IS THE ROY, No matter what.

Check the votes as a clear example.

Ayton will be MVP / NBA all first team before Doncic. That much I guarantee. At the end of the day Doncic is Euro. Euros just aren’t as good except Dirk who was a once in a lifetime outlier.

Even tho he will win ROTY I don’t think I’ve seen a rookie this overhyped as Doncic. Maybe Lonzo but that was just more how he’s not good rather than the second coming. He’s decent and certainly confident. He’ll go far but will never be the best or second best player on a championship team nor genuine MVP contender.

[gh123]

Ayton and Doncic are both on pace to win ROY. If you think one is ahead of the other at this point in time ur just being a fanboy

They play differently and have different skill sets. You really cant compare the two.

Theres a lot of season left to go. It will be a fun race.

Lol. No way.
You are the only fanboy.

Ayton is good for a pick number 1.

Doncic is awesome for number 3.

Ayton needs a team for him in order to being important.

Luka is the engine of his team.

Ayton is Kat/ Whiteside level of player. Nothing of being ashamed , but not a MVP .

With Luka you can believe on him or not. But you would think that the roof is higher. MVP is far away but you could see a path.

So as a Phoenix fanbase , you screw , you choose a pretty Mustang instead of a Tank, for going to the war.

You put a limit on your future.Not this year or next, just in the moment of giving Ayton a Max, right there you are the new Minnesota, Miami or Detroit.


Doncic is 3 level above anyone's else.

GET OVER IT.

LUKA IS THE ROY, No matter what.

Check the votes as a clear example.

Ayton will be MVP / NBA all first team before Doncic. That much I guarantee. At the end of the day Doncic is Euro. Euros just aren’t as good except Dirk who was a once in a lifetime outlier.

Even tho he will win ROTY I don’t think I’ve seen a rookie this overhyped as Doncic. Maybe Lonzo but that was just more how he’s not good rather than the second coming. He’s decent and certainly confident. He’ll go far but will never be the best or second best player on a championship team nor genuine MVP contender.

See, you guys say outrageous stuff like this and then act surprised when Doncic stans attack you

[The-Power]

At the end of the day Doncic is Euro. Euros just aren’t as good except Dirk who was a once in a lifetime outlier.

You are to be pitied for thinking, reasoning and arguing in such ways. I genuinely feel bad for you.

[Goudelock]

Lol. No way.
You are the only fanboy.

Ayton is good for a pick number 1.

Doncic is awesome for number 3.

Ayton needs a team for him in order to being important.

Luka is the engine of his team.

Ayton is Kat/ Whiteside level of player. Nothing of being ashamed , but not a MVP .

With Luka you can believe on him or not. But you would think that the roof is higher. MVP is far away but you could see a path.

So as a Phoenix fanbase , you screw , you choose a pretty Mustang instead of a Tank, for going to the war.

You put a limit on your future.Not this year or next, just in the moment of giving Ayton a Max, right there you are the new Minnesota, Miami or Detroit.


Doncic is 3 level above anyone's else.

GET OVER IT.

LUKA IS THE ROY, No matter what.

Check the votes as a clear example.

Ayton will be MVP / NBA all first team before Doncic. That much I guarantee. At the end of the day Doncic is Euro. Euros just aren’t as good except Dirk who was a once in a lifetime outlier.

Even tho he will win ROTY I don’t think I’ve seen a rookie this overhyped as Doncic. Maybe Lonzo but that was just more how he’s not good rather than the second coming. He’s decent and certainly confident. He’ll go far but will never be the best or second best player on a championship team nor genuine MVP contender.

See, you guys say outrageous stuff like this and then act surprised when Doncic stans attack you

Alright everyone, let's calm down. No need to attack one another.

[Archx]

Ayton and Doncic are both on pace to win ROY. If you think one is ahead of the other at this point in time ur just being a fanboy

They play differently and have different skill sets. You really cant compare the two.

Theres a lot of season left to go. It will be a fun race.

Lol. No way.
You are the only fanboy.

Ayton is good for a pick number 1.

Doncic is awesome for number 3.

Ayton needs a team for him in order to being important.

Luka is the engine of his team.

Ayton is Kat/ Whiteside level of player. Nothing of being ashamed , but not a MVP .

With Luka you can believe on him or not. But you would think that the roof is higher. MVP is far away but you could see a path.

So as a Phoenix fanbase , you screw , you choose a pretty Mustang instead of a Tank, for going to the war.

You put a limit on your future.Not this year or next, just in the moment of giving Ayton a Max, right there you are the new Minnesota, Miami or Detroit.


Doncic is 3 level above anyone's else.

GET OVER IT.

LUKA IS THE ROY, No matter what.

Check the votes as a clear example.

Ayton will be MVP / NBA all first team before Doncic. That much I guarantee. At the end of the day Doncic is Euro. Euros just aren’t as good except Dirk who was a once in a lifetime outlier.

Even tho he will win ROTY I don’t think I’ve seen a rookie this overhyped as Doncic. Maybe Lonzo but that was just more how he’s not good rather than the second coming. He’s decent and certainly confident. He’ll go far but will never be the best or second best player on a championship team nor genuine MVP contender.

If he drags Mavs into the playoffs and increases his numbers, there will be at least ONE vote from someone in the media for him to be an MVP. So there goes your theory of never being an MVP contender. How likely is that to happen? Not very, but the same can be said about your claim about a 19yo kid who is just getting started.

Also people need to stop downplaying Ayton. It's really stupid at this point. He is doing exactly what we thought or expected from him to do when he was drafted. He is an athletic center with great feel for scoring. Can he be more than that? We'll see, but Ayton is playing great and deserves recognition.

On the other hand... Luka is already showing that he can actually be a nr1 option on a very good team, but he obviously just like Ayton, still has a lot of learning to do. So no need to downplay either one of them.

Mavs are pretty bad team if you actually watch them play, but they have their moments and Luka bailed them out quite a lot of times already... and Suns also wouldn't win as many games as they did without Ayton having a big role in those wins.

[guille_4]

Both Deandre Ayton and Luka Doncic are having great rookie seasons. They're both ROY worthy.

17 points / 11 rebounds / 2.2 assists in 31 minutes with a 62.7% TS% is noteworthy for any player, and fantastic for a rookie.

Doncic is on the lead because he's had a huge impact on Dallas' W-L, has been very clutch and is more flashy, but from a box-score perspective they're on par if not Ayton ahead.

[Johnny Firpo]

Rookie-RAPM Update, based on shadow's RAPM (as of 12/26/2018):

Spoiler:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQdG8Zv84zqKEzETDjd8KPsClcw9bPETX9v_x_KEAxjv9NrFaWikOoiSaciy1jbMiygg2D-V8DUQn0O/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true

DISCLAIMER: Do not take the numbers at face value. This is neither a ranking of the players' overall goodness nor a ranking of the players' values as prospects.

Selection Criteria: ≥ 25 GP, ≥ 15 MPG

Name | ORAPM (Rank) | DRAPM (Rank) | RAPM (Rank)

Huerter, Kevin | 0.64 (105) | 1.04 (42) | 1.68 (44)
Brunson, Jalen | 0.42 (129) | 0.94 (51) | 1.36 (56)
Okogie, Josh | -0.06 (248) | 0.81 (65) | 0.75 (111)
Doncic, Luka | 0.92 (64) | -0.25 (306) | 0.67 (118)
Hutchison, C. | -0.49 (346) | 0.84 (62) | 0.35 (168)
Clark, Gary | 0.62 (108) | -0.50 (361) | 0.12 (211)
Brown, Bruce | -1.00 (408) | 1.10 (37) | 0.10 (214)
Bridges, Mikal | -0.71 (374) | 0.78 (71) | 0.07 (221)
Jackson, Jaren | -1.54 (446) | 1.60 (12) | 0.06 (223)
Gilg.-Alex., Shai | 0.29 (154) | -0.32 (321) | -0.03 (246)
Bridges, Miles | -0.11 (267) | -0.27 (314) | -0.38 (305)
Robinson, Mit. | -0.19 (294) | -0.32 (321) | -0.51 (318)
Ayton, DeAndre | -0.47 (344) | -0.16 (283) | -0.63 (335)
Carter, Wendell | -1.95 (459) | 0.39 (128) | -1.59 (429)
Bagley, Marvin | -0.32 (322) | -1.25 (444) | -1.57 (432)
Trier, Allonzo | -0.79 (386) | -1.22 (442) | -2.11 (445)
Shamet, Landry | -0.35 (326) | -1.83 (460) | -2.18 (448)
Young, Trae | -1.38 (437) | -1.70 (459) | -3.08 (460)
Knox, Kevin | -0.72 (375) | -2.41 (467) | -3.13 (461)
Bamba, Mo | -2.67 (467) | -0.98 (424) | -3.65 (463)
Sexton, Collin | -1.60 (449) | -2.22 (465) | -3.82 (464)

(Ranking out of 468 Players (Total))

Can you tell me a little bit about who is/what is shadow, and how does this differ, what does it want to accomplish?

[Johnny Firpo]

Dončić is playing great, but Ayton is having a historic season in rookie terms as well. And there's 45+ games to go, anything can happen in the RotY race. Even as a big Dončić fan, it bothers me how some Dončić fans, in this thread and elsewhere on the internet, put down other 2018 rookies, both in terms of how well they're playing this season and in terms how much potential they have to grow. And yes, it's very possible that several years down the line Dončić isn't the best or even top 3 player from this rookie class. Just like it was near impossible to predict how well Dončić would start his NBA career, it's near impossible to predict how he and the other rookies will develop in the next 4-5 years.

I don't see how this is true to this thread. Who is putting down Ayton or JJJ? Where? You are just fishing for AND1s with the "Mr. Objective" post.