Seismic Shift in the East: Thomas Bryant a Wizard

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It’s premature to claim this guy is going to be anything more than an end of bench guy. He has severe limitations defensively. The league will get a book on him as he plays more minutes. There is hope, but still less than 50% he sticks around.

Fair enough. Only perfection can be predicted to succeed w/ 100% accuracy. Then again, what you just said about Thomas Bryant we could also say about absolutely any 21-year-old player. Hell, it's been said right here about Ben Simmons -- not that he might not stick around, but that "the league will get a book on him..."

But, here's the thing, trast: either you play well or you play badly. That's it; there's nothing else.

& if you play well, you deserve praise. & if you play badly, you deserve to have the fact pointed out.

Thomas Bryant is playing extremely well. Really really well. So he deserves praise.

Along the same lines, those who said he was a promising prospect -- like Nat did -- should get some recognition for it.

As to your remarks above... long ago, when I was a grad student still falling out of the cradle, I studied for a while with the great political philosopher Hannah Arendt.

One time I was in her office, running my mouth about something, when she interrupted me and said, in her gravelly German accent: "PIF," she said, "knowing better is NOT a kind of knowing."

I'm still working on learning that lesson, Trast. Aren't we all?

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...LOL. I wrote a 2 line post defending myself from criticism on a post that I still believe is correct, and you're actually criticising me for standing up for it? I don't have time for this garbage. You're better than that. Happy holidays.

You're right. My bad. It was the dig about Tony Bradley that precipitated my screed.

Happy New Year to you, Ruz -- to all of you!

My New Year's resolution is to fire Ernie Grunfeld. How about you all??

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Ruz -- remind me one day to tell the story about how I tried to become the GM of the Warriors (this is more than 40 years ago...).

[Ruzious]

...LOL. I wrote a 2 line post defending myself from criticism on a post that I still believe is correct, and you're actually criticising me for standing up for it? I don't have time for this garbage. You're better than that. Happy holidays.

You're right. My bad. It was the dig about Tony Bradley that precipitated my screed.

Happy New Year to you, Ruz -- to all of you!

My New Year's resolution is to fire Ernie Grunfeld. How about you all??

Thanks PIF and amen to that!

Btw, I like Bradley, but he hasn't done anything, so I didn't get why you brought him up.

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Had nothing to do w/ you. People were busy talking about Bryant being floor-bound, etc. I pointed to NBA combine results being more or less identical for Bryant & for Bradley & J. Allen (both R1 picks). Only relevance.

[doclinkin]

Thomas Bryant is playing extremely well. Really really well. So he deserves praise.

Along the same lines, those who said he was a promising prospect -- like Nat did -- should get some recognition for it.

T
Aside from me, only Nat got it right:

...it’s the type of move we would be applauding if another team made it.

AHEM!

Speaking of being better than that:

So just throwing this out there. Would giving Kyle O'Quinn the same deal we gave Dwight Howard have been the safer and smarter move?

Yes and no. I think the optics of the move from the perspective of Wall and around the league are that we did get the athletic big that John wanted. KOQ is more of a savvy floor bound positionally smart player, he is not the above the rim lob target that will make highlight plays. Raises our profile, even if it doesn't show up in the win column. Granted wins are what we care about, but we would like a motivated energetic happy team. Too, Dwight CAN BE a mismatch in our favor, O'Quinn will be a good player throughout his career. This team has not been built on a foundation of fundamentally solid players quietly acquired on smart moves, if we succeed it is because our talent out-talents their talent. A motivated Howard, with synergy next to John, can do that. O'Quinn won't. He will quietly do the grunt work, but won't ever crush and dominate. With John and Howard, playing at their best you can make the argument that they are among the best at their position, in the NBA more often than not Talent wins deepest. The Chauncey/Larry Brown Pistons excepted.

Partly though one danger is that O'Quinn's reliable game would cast shade on a developing player in Bryant. I'm happy we landed him, he's a real talent. its understandable he might have to play behind Howard, no allstar pedigree and dunk champion hops, but , his upside is pretty.

If Howard goes down with an injury we have opportunity to let the young cat get some real run to develop on court. If Howard plays well we will still develop a young guy for his future with the team. If we had O'Quinn and Bryant there's less of a wide shadow to shade him while he develops. Bigs seem to develop slower in the league. Ok granted I'd rather he learn the fundamentals from O'Quinn's example, I'm just saying his upside looks higher, more potential to develop, and with O'Quinn being younger, if we kept him he'd likely be playing in front of Bryant longer. Coaches want results, don't have the patience for upside. I think we see Bryant sooner and better playing behind Howard, as Howard has a greater risk of flaming out.

F**k silver lining. Lets soak these storm clouds in arsenic and strip mine the gold out of them.

But yeah, while Howard looks like he might be fun to watch in highlights, and Jeff Green can put up an occasional flying dunk or a good offensive night on junkyard plays, this offseason I'm more intrigued by the acquisition upside and development of the two young cats we picked up.

Troy and Thomas look like they could grow together. I like the ready and pretty-looking outside shot on the young big, and the read/react targeting software of our point forward.

I would love to see some of this:

Troy jr
Beal
[wing out shooter -- maybe the first half version of Kelly Jr]
Otto jr
Thomas Bryant jr

Basically all the juniors plus Beal and Bryant. With outside shooting from every position but Troy, and him actually bringing the ball up the court at times to draw their forward out of position.

[trast66]

It’s premature to claim this guy is going to be anything more than an end of bench guy. He has severe limitations defensively. The league will get a book on him as he plays more minutes. There is hope, but still less than 50% he sticks around.

Fair enough. Only perfection can be predicted to succeed w/ 100% accuracy. Then again, what you just said about Thomas Bryant we could also say about absolutely any 21-year-old player. Hell, it's been said right here about Ben Simmons -- not that he might not stick around, but that "the league will get a book on him..."

But, here's the thing, trast: either you play well or you play badly. That's it; there's nothing else.

& if you play well, you deserve praise. & if you play badly, you deserve to have the fact pointed out.

Thomas Bryant is playing extremely well. Really really well. So he deserves praise.

Along the same lines, those who said he was a promising prospect -- like Nat did -- should get some recognition for it.

As to your remarks above... long ago, when I was a grad student still falling out of the cradle, I studied for a while with the great political philosopher Hannah Arendt.

One time I was in her office, running my mouth about something, when she interrupted me and said, in her gravelly German accent: "PIF," she said, "knowing better is NOT a kind of knowing."

I'm still working on learning that lesson, Trast. Aren't we all?

Well you led me to wikipedia Hannah Arendt. Maybe EG is example of the banality of evil!

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Not sure what your problem is... !!

Thomas Bryant is playing extremely well. Really really well. So he deserves praise.

Along the same lines, those who said he was a promising prospect -- like Nat & doclinkin did -- should get some recognition for it.

Aside from doclinkin, only Nat & doclinkin got it right:

...it’s the type of move we would be applauding if another team made it.

AHEM!

Speaking of being better than that:

... I'm happy we landed him, he's a real talent.... his upside is pretty.

If Howard goes down with an injury we have opportunity to let the young cat get some real run to develop on court. If Howard plays well we will still develop a young guy for his future with the team. If we had O'Quinn and Bryant there's less of a wide shadow to shade him while he develops. Bigs seem to develop slower in the league. Ok granted I'd rather he learn the fundamentals from O'Quinn's example, I'm just saying his upside looks higher, more potential to develop, and with O'Quinn being younger, if we kept him he'd likely be playing in front of Bryant longer. Coaches want results, don't have the patience for upside. I think we see Bryant sooner and better playing behind Howard, as Howard has a greater risk of flaming out.

F**k silver lining. Lets soak these storm clouds in arsenic and strip mine the gold out of them.

But yeah, while Howard looks like he might be fun to watch in highlights, and Jeff Green can put up an occasional flying dunk or a good offensive night on junkyard plays, this offseason I'm more intrigued by the acquisition upside and development of the two young cats we picked up.

Troy and Thomas look like they could grow together. I like the ready and pretty-looking outside shot on the young big, and the read/react targeting software of our point forward.

I would love to see some of this:

Troy jr
Beal
[wing out shooter -- maybe the first half version of Kelly Jr]
Otto jr
Thomas Bryant jr

Basically all the juniors plus Beal and Bryant. With outside shooting from every position but Troy, and him actually bringing the ball up the court at times to draw their forward out of position.

Plus this is exactly what PIF Jr. said that & doclinkin said. & nat. Or at least like I just helped him to say!

(To put it slightly differently -- you're right, Doc. I forgot that you'd weighed in on Bryant in an extremely positive way. Turns out you were right! Well done.)

[doclinkin]

There you go.

I wish we had a new era Big Man skills coach. We need a coach who can teach P&R defense, show and recover, rebounding in the long ball game, passing from the pivot (top of the key and above) as well as the now underrated low post skills that Bigs ought to have. We have seen from the Houston flameout in last years playoffs, a steady diet of threeball leaves you vulnerable to streaks. You do need an interior game you can switch to at time to get some easy buckets down low. A savvy and tough interior player is an underrated asset. I feel like this next level of the metagame shows that its the Draymond position that is key: a player who can pass from the pick and roll game, hit an open shot, who can defend bigs but can stay on the floor when teams go small, and who has inside skills.

Bryant isn't the only Big cat who struggles figuring out defense in the long ball era. Traditionally Bigs struggle regardless, it takes a while to learn the position. Guards with talent swiftly adapt to the NBA, but aside from the Shaq Dwight Kareem Wilt supertalents who were huge their whole lives, as well as being graced with natural athleticism, for most bigs it takes a while to learn the game. To grow into it. And in this new era when Utah couldn't even keep Gobert on the floor in the playoffs, there are all star centers who are struggling.

But TBjr is a young cat. He can learn. If we had a forward looking front office we would invest in a skills academy level teacher for this new era if Bigs. The question is who can teach him?

I wish so hard this team was forward looking-enough to make some prescient and thoughtful hires on the teaching staff. Cut bait on Brooks who was brought here in a failed KD recruitment bid, and is a nice guy but not ahead of the curve in any way. I've wanted this team to recruit coaches Ginobili and Duncan. Duncan was not only Big Fundamental, he showed an ability to adapt as the game was changing. I know Coach Manu would encourage Wall to learn the Nash/Parker skill of staying in motion to constantly probe the defense and keep them off balance. No standing around under Coach Manu. I also suspect Tim would have some quiet and thoughtful words on how best to adjust and play angles and lanes to defend in this era.

But even absent that, we have needed a proper big man skills coach basically forever. Whats curious is that our Wizards squad kicked off the new era, the dribble-drive motion long-ball outside-in offense with tweener guards and tweener forwards and small ball. Prime Gilbert and Jamison would fit right in on any team in the league. But what we never had was a Princeton offense center. We had a chance, if we had selected Marc Gasol instead of Dom McGuire, he was a big man who could pass and direct the action from the top of the key. We tried looking for every tweener 5 we could think of (Hilton Necklong, Stewie Pecherov, etc). But that was a failure of the GM and coach alike. Small ball was not what you were looking for. Smart ball was.

Still, there are coaches and bigs who understand how to play as the hub of the wheel. Recruit a real Princeton offense teacher (not my man Eddie "F" Jordan). Look at any descendent of the Wooden talent tree (Luke Walton is sneakily inserting Princeton principles in LA; his dad understands the backdoor cut game with a passing Big). Hell call Arvydas Sabonis over to coach a seminar. Pretty much any Euro coach can teach it. I'm sorry David Blatt didn't get more run in the NBA, his resume suggests he deserves a second chance, with a young team that doesn't have a superstar vetoing every decision.

But so, yeah. Thomas Bryant has the raw tools and I am happy he is getting an opportunity to learn in live fire exercises. I was excited in a 'why not' kinda way about Howard being here because if he was healthy we had a chance to fly high on talent alone, and if not we had a tank year opportunity to develop young players playing alongside seasoned vets. It was Boom or Bust. Since we were tapped out (lux tax so no money to recruit) we could either make a push or flame out and let our youth get some run.

I liked Bryant's talent. Good enough hands, long arms, active energy --if not yet any idea how to spend it efficiently-- and a smooth looking outside catapult shot with a willing trigger. Like any young player (bigs especially) he just needs to learn positional defense and the passing game. Lets get him some coaches and role models and take a look at what kind of team we want our future to be. Right now he is being mis-used even.

Shoot, there is even a missed opportunity in teams failing to teach the mid-range game. It looked like Pop was going to exploit that, but I think he is adjusting on the fly to the loss of Parker Manu AND Kawhi.

[DCZards]

But TBjr is a young cat. He can learn. If we had a forward looking front office we would invest in a skills academy level teacher for this new era if Bigs. The question is who can teach him?

Partick Ewing. Send Bryant across town to Big Man U. this summer for lessons. I'm sure professors Mourning and Mutombo will come through to share some tips and drop some knowledge... and bang Thomas around a little.

The "new era" Bryant can learn an awful lot from old school cats like the G'Town trio. Ewing was one of the absolute best midrange shooters at center.

On top of that, TBjr will be spending quality time with three really class acts.

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Super idea! & can it please happen in an open gym?? Love to see those class act cast cats scat static tactics....

Right?

[Ruzious]

The game has changed so much for bigs that it might not be a good idea to have someone as "old" as Ewing to teach him. If Gortat retires after this season, he might be a good big-man teacher for Bryant. Full disclosure - I got that idea from reading Kev's blog - he mentioned Bryant should take lessons from Gortat on setting screens. The Secret Weapon made a good evaluation of Bryant:

Bryant is approaching enough minutes for the numbers to start really meaning something. His offensive rating (points produced per 100 individual possessions) is an astronomical 140. I'd like to see him do a better job rebounding, setting screens and defending.

[FAH1223]

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[Shanghai Kid]

Bryants advanced stats have him as the best player on the team.

That obviously can't be taken 100% but its a really good sign for the future.

[Rafael122]

So at the very least, he's a rotational player right? We can all agree on that? Is he a starter though?

[nate33]

But TBjr is a young cat. He can learn. If we had a forward looking front office we would invest in a skills academy level teacher for this new era if Bigs. The question is who can teach him?

Partick Ewing. Send Bryant across town to Big Man U. this summer for lessons. I'm sure professors Mourning and Mutombo will come through to share some tips and drop some knowledge... and bang Thomas around a little.

The "new era" Bryant can learn an awful lot from old school cats like the G'Town trio. Ewing was one of the absolute best midrange shooters at center.

On top of that, TBjr will be spending quality time with three really class acts.

I'm not sure those guys would be all that helpful as mentors in today's game. They were great in a different era with different offenses and never had to defend so much pick and roll action. I also never got the impression that those guys excelled in the NBA because they out-thought the opposition. They were just taller, stronger, more skilled, more competitive, harder working, and more coordinated that most NBA centers. I like Doc's idea of looking for the ex-bigs that seemed to have an unusually deep grasp of defensive positioning. Duncan would be ideal, though probably not interested. Another guy that would interest me is Ben Wallace. He may have been the best of all time at defending the pick and roll, and he did it while being much shorter than everyone else. (There's some bad blood between Wallace and the Wizards organization, though.) Kevin Garnett was great too, but I don't know if he has the demeanor and temperament to be a coach or adviser. Another name worth consideration: Kurt Thomas.

[closg00]

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The exact opposite of Kancer Kieff

[Ruzious]

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Brad, I think it's called playing with energy. It's infectious in a good way, and Bryant does it consistently. Hopefully, he doesn't copy your whining ways.

[NatP4]

So at the very least, he's a rotational player right? We can all agree on that? Is he a starter though?

His numbers say he’s one of the best Cs in the NBA. I mean, they are kinda ridiculous. 21.5 PER .720 TS% 17-10-2-2-1 per 36. He doesn’t turn the ball over at all. He’s got a positive BPM, VORP, and a WS/48 of .196, which is elite territory. RPM even has him ranked 19th out of all centers. He’s killing it just setting good screens and rolling. This team needs that.

It’s very possible that we’ve actually found our center of the future, our very own Clint Capela type. I’m starting him even if Dwight is healthy. 30+ minutes a night.

Based on analytics, if you were to simply play Sato-Otto-Bryant 36+ minutes a night, you would probably have a solid team. I think Brown jr fits the same mold as a real positive impact jack of all trades role player. Build around those 4 guys+ Beal who is the real star player and leader. All of Ariza/Green/Dekker/Dwight can give you the solid role player and effort part.

They need to go find another guard though

[Ruzious]

So at the very least, he's a rotational player right? We can all agree on that? Is he a starter though?

Even though his stats are great, he's got a long way to go, and that's partly a good thing. He got bullied by Len, so that's a sign that he needs to get stronger. And he can - at some point - incorporate a 3 point shot to his game. Obviously, he's got a long way to go on defense and setting picks, but that should come with experience and work. And because he seems like he likes to work and improve, there's a good chance he will become a good starter. The Wiz also need to provide him with direction, and I'm not sure they'll do that effectively.