2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[juanc]

Speaking of which, do you think he's long for Dallas considering the potential fit issues with Doncic?

IDK. One issue is I don't think he has much trade value atm. So that might keep him Dallas a bit longer.

Positives:

His shooting is better this year. Not great, but 37% on 3's would be good enough.
His defense is improved. Still not a good defender, but his effort and want-to is much improved

It feels like he gets that Luka is going to have the ball the most and that he's got to figure out how to play off that.

Negatives:

What is he great at?
Great athlete, but not a great finisher.
Doesn't draw fouls.
A/T ratio is barely above 1
Offense is a lot better with his backup in the game (okay so that's unfair as his backup is Barea)


It's just hard right now for me to project him as a good starter.

I dont have an issue with DSJ. He can he good one day. But he doesn't fit what Dallas needs if they are building around Luka which they are.

Sorry guys, I have learned my lesson

[The-Power]

Haven't seen any Knicks games this year, but from the highlights Knox looks like he has the tools to be one of the best scorers in the league. Great pick by the Knicks!

The problem with Knox is that highlights will fool you. That has been the same in college. I like his chances to become a long-term starter if he buys into a well-defined role but there's absolutely zero indication that he has the tools and the chance to ‘be one of the best scorers in the league’. Zero.

Care to elaborate on this? Hes actually been pretty consistent in his NBA career flashing his scoring ability. He definitely shows tools of an elite scorer. Routinely drops 10-15 with ease in a quarter. He often gets looked off by the "vets" in second halfs of games right now after hot starts. Thats the biggest work in progress with him on that end right now

‘Best in the league’ type of scorers typically show such signs early on. Knox hasn't – not in HS, not in the NCAA, not in the NBA. But maybe the issue here is semantics. There's a clear difference, for me, between a potentially talented scorer and one that rivals the likes of Durant, Curry, LeBron and Co. Also, I'm not sure what qualities would allow Knox to be an elite scorer (consistent, high volume, good efficiency). He's fairly well-rounded but not elite at anything in particular and it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be based on what he's shown thus far in his career.

[mlp22]

Routinely drops 10-15 with ease in a quarter.

He only averages 12.2 points per game. How in the hell could he be routinely dropping 10-15 with ease in a quarter?

You’ll see Kevin scoring 8-13 points in the first quarter.

He's only averaging 4 points per game in the first quarter. Stop pulling numbers out of your ass.

[NBA Fan 1234]

He only averages 12.2 points per game. How in the hell could he be routinely dropping 10-15 with ease in a quarter?

You’ll see Kevin scoring 8-13 points in the first quarter.

He's only averaging 4 points per game in the first quarter. Stop pulling numbers out of your ass.

Not that I think he's anywhere NEAR the ROY competition, nor do I think he'll be much more than a volume scorer who impacts the game little elsewhere, over the last 10 he has been at 9.8 PPG in the first Q - that's basically when he started gunning.

[jcsunsfan]

All those fans saying Doncic has Dallas in playoff contention etc.

Do you realise Dallas are 17-19, 12th in the West and very very unlikely to actually make playoffs from here? They are already slipping and 3.5 games behind 8th whilst being 2-8 in their last 10...

So yeah he might’ve had them in playoff contention in the first 20 games of the season but that looks done and dusted and it looks very unlikely they’ll even finish above 10th now.

It’s their road record that has killed them. At home they’re really good though. As a team they haven’t been able to get over the hump an win these close games at the end. They’re rebuild is not complete though. They will eventually be able to get these road wins. They won’t be in playoff contention until they can figure out how to win on the road.

Strength of schedule makes a difference. Phoenix has had the 4th most difficult SOS so far. Dallas has had the 11th easiest (19th most difficult). I am by no means trying to say Phoenix is better than or equal to Dallas, just that it might be closer than the records appear.

But I absolutely concede. Luka is in the lead for ROY. Ayton is making up ground though.

[blueNorange]

The problem with Knox is that highlights will fool you. That has been the same in college. I like his chances to become a long-term starter if he buys into a well-defined role but there's absolutely zero indication that he has the tools and the chance to ‘be one of the best scorers in the league’. Zero.

Care to elaborate on this? Hes actually been pretty consistent in his NBA career flashing his scoring ability. He definitely shows tools of an elite scorer. Routinely drops 10-15 with ease in a quarter. He often gets looked off by the "vets" in second halfs of games right now after hot starts. Thats the biggest work in progress with him on that end right now

‘Best in the league’ type of scorers typically show such signs early on. Knox hasn't – not in HS, not in the NCAA, not in the NBA. But maybe the issue here is semantics. There's a clear difference, for me, between a potentially talented scorer and one that rivals the likes of Durant, Curry, LeBron and Co. Also, I'm not sure what qualities would allow Knox to be an elite scorer (consistent, high volume, good efficiency). He's fairly well-rounded but not elite at anything in particular and it's highly unlikely that he'll ever be based on what he's shown thus far in his career.

he's a 19 year old, nobody knows what the hell he's going to be.

what he's shown though is that he can score in this league.

last 11 games(10 starts)

18.6 ppg, though plays aren't designed for him
41%
39% from 3
6.0 rebounds
38 minutes(stamina isn't a problem)

[Young gun 6]

All those fans saying Doncic has Dallas in playoff contention etc.

Do you realise Dallas are 17-19, 12th in the West and very very unlikely to actually make playoffs from here? They are already slipping and 3.5 games behind 8th whilst being 2-8 in their last 10...

So yeah he might’ve had them in playoff contention in the first 20 games of the season but that looks done and dusted and it looks very unlikely they’ll even finish above 10th now.

It’s their road record that has killed them. At home they’re really good though. As a team they haven’t been able to get over the hump an win these close games at the end. They’re rebuild is not complete though. They will eventually be able to get these road wins. They won’t be in playoff contention until they can figure out how to win on the road.

Strength of schedule makes a difference. Phoenix has had the 4th most difficult SOS so far. Dallas has had the 11th easiest (19th most difficult). I am by no means trying to say Phoenix is better than or equal to Dallas, just that it might be closer than the records appear.

But I absolutely concede. Luka is in the lead for ROY. Ayton is making up ground though.

That’s the thing that will make it closer by seasons end I think too. Most of the predictors have Phoenix finishing last and Dallas finishing 2nd last in the West (see rookie stats predictor sticky on the main board).

Phoenix’s first 20 games was absolutely brutal, when the records come together a bit Ayton should be making ground because the ‘playoff contention’ and the media/highlight reel stuff is the only difference right now.

[NYKHardKnock]

He only averages 12.2 points per game. How in the hell could he be routinely dropping 10-15 with ease in a quarter?

You’ll see Kevin scoring 8-13 points in the first quarter.

He's only averaging 4 points per game in the first quarter. Stop pulling numbers out of your ass.

Uhm.... I’m a Knicks fan and I watch every game. So I know what I’m talking about there boyo. Read if you’re going to comment when I said he ‘struggled mightily’ the first month plus. The last month plus he’s averaging near 10 ppg in the first quarter.

[TheBonzaiEffect]

Another bad game from Trae. 5 points on 2-8 shooting. 9 assists, 4 TOVs.

Good games from Luka & JJJ. Ayton was good offensively, but wrecked by Embiid on D.

[Mr B]

It’s their road record that has killed them. At home they’re really good though. As a team they haven’t been able to get over the hump an win these close games at the end. They’re rebuild is not complete though. They will eventually be able to get these road wins. They won’t be in playoff contention until they can figure out how to win on the road.

Strength of schedule makes a difference. Phoenix has had the 4th most difficult SOS so far. Dallas has had the 11th easiest (19th most difficult). I am by no means trying to say Phoenix is better than or equal to Dallas, just that it might be closer than the records appear.

But I absolutely concede. Luka is in the lead for ROY. Ayton is making up ground though.

That’s the thing that will make it closer by seasons end I think too. Most of the predictors have Phoenix finishing last and Dallas finishing 2nd last in the West (see rookie stats predictor sticky on the main board).

Phoenix’s first 20 games was absolutely brutal, when the records come together a bit Ayton should be making ground because the ‘playoff contention’ and the media/highlight reel stuff is the only difference right now.

I would be surprised if the Mavs finish 2nd worse in the West. When all is said and done I think they will end up above .500 which should put them higher than 2nd worse in the west.

[koyotee]

Another bad game from Trae. 5 points on 2-8 shooting. 9 assists, 4 TOVs.

Good games from Luka & JJJ. Ayton was good offensively, but wrecked by Embiid on D.

But but he shot 50% from 3

[Young gun 6]

Strength of schedule makes a difference. Phoenix has had the 4th most difficult SOS so far. Dallas has had the 11th easiest (19th most difficult). I am by no means trying to say Phoenix is better than or equal to Dallas, just that it might be closer than the records appear.

But I absolutely concede. Luka is in the lead for ROY. Ayton is making up ground though.

That’s the thing that will make it closer by seasons end I think too. Most of the predictors have Phoenix finishing last and Dallas finishing 2nd last in the West (see rookie stats predictor sticky on the main board).

Phoenix’s first 20 games was absolutely brutal, when the records come together a bit Ayton should be making ground because the ‘playoff contention’ and the media/highlight reel stuff is the only difference right now.

I would be surprised if the Mavs finish 2nd worse in the West. When all is said and done I think they will end up above .500 which should put them higher than 2nd worse in the west.

Interesting, we’ll just have to wait and see. I can’t see them winning more than 35 games or so tbh.

[Bob8]

Another bad game from Trae. 5 points on 2-8 shooting. 9 assists, 4 TOVs.

Good games from Luka & JJJ. Ayton was good offensively, but wrecked by Embiid on D.

But but he shot 50% from 3

yes, he is having better % by shooting much less. but his biggest problem is D. he will be unplayable in any kind of serious team with D. like that. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/12/sort/DRPM

[Pumpkin17]

Another bad game from Trae. 5 points on 2-8 shooting. 9 assists, 4 TOVs.

Good games from Luka & JJJ. Ayton was good offensively, but wrecked by Embiid on D.

That's a very hard beating for Ayton. Still, Embiid is the best center in the NBA right now and the fact that he managed to get his numbers is a positive signal. He will have to learn but his production is already constant and that's great for any prospect.

[SlovenianDragon]

Watch on YouTube

Suns just need a starting caliber PG.

It wouldn't only help Ayton but Booker as well.

Booker is doing his best averaging 7.2 assists which puts him at 11th in the league for APG. But that really shouldn't be his job.

A good PG would free up Ayton AND Booker.

[RGM_SU]

yes, he is having better % by shooting much less. but his biggest problem is D. he will be unplayable in any kind of serious team with D. like that. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/12/sort/DRPM

Speaking of RPM, is there another rookie ranked higher than Doncic at 46? Not sure if I missed somebody.

[Johnny Firpo]

yes, he is having better % by shooting much less. but his biggest problem is D. he will be unplayable in any kind of serious team with D. like that. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/12/sort/DRPM

Speaking of RPM, is there another rookie ranked higher than Doncic at 46? Not sure if I missed somebody.

No one that qualifies, but maybe one of the Bridges' could be higher. Don't remember which one, but one of them were the best earlier in the season, but I think he didn't qualify. Could be wrong.

[RGM_SU]

Speaking of RPM, is there another rookie ranked higher than Doncic at 46? Not sure if I missed somebody.

No one that qualifies, but maybe one of the Bridges' could be higher. Don't remember which one, but one of them were the best earlier in the season, but I think he didn't qualify. Could be wrong.

Thanks. I remembered something with Bridges but didn't see him. That's why I asked.

[Bob8]

yes, he is having better % by shooting much less. but his biggest problem is D. he will be unplayable in any kind of serious team with D. like that. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/12/sort/DRPM

Speaking of RPM, is there another rookie ranked higher than Doncic at 46? Not sure if I missed somebody.

No, only 3 in plus with normal playing time are Luka(46), JJJ(95) and Mikal B.(139).

[VCfor3]

Jaren started a little slow but ended up with a decent game last night. 8/11 (2/2 from 3pt), 26pts, 10reb, 2 ast. He fouled out but that is because he had a few intentional fouls at the end of the game. Mike Conley didn't score the entire game and Gasol didn't score in the 2nd half. You would have liked to have had JJJ fed more on offense with the others struggling but it's still good to see him have a decent night again.