When will Trae be as good as Doncic?

[Atlanta Hawk Fan]

Half way through Chris Paul's rookie season, or even half way through Durant's rookie season, you can just tell, and many other, ''ya this guy is good''. Same with Doncic. Doncic so far reminds me of Durant's rookie season.

i HADN'T THOUGHT MUCH ABOUT IT, BUT tRAE'S PRODUCTION is eerily similar to CP3 as a rookie. And they are similar stature as well.

I believe that Trae could have come into the league and hit the ground running had he stayed for an additional year in school.

But that CP3 comp is really comforting.

I don't see the CP3 comp really working for me. Especially considering CP3 has been an elite defender at the position. Other than bringing up some of CP3's history for either very high level purposes (i.e., similar to comparing him to Durant) or for discrete and limited purposes (such as seeing how CP3's 3pt shooting evolved), I don't see much to be gained out of comparing the two.

*******

It seems pretty crazy to announce that Atlanta has lost the trade not even halfway through the players rookie year and before the 2nd part of the trade (2019 Mavs 1st) has even been selected.

Agree. It is low probability but not inconceivable that the player taken with the Mav's pick could end up being better than either Trae or Doncic. The probability isn't high but it is real. (Karl Malone, Kawhi Leonard, Clyde Drexler, John Stockton, Kobe Bryant, Dirk, Steph Curry, Dr J, Giannis, etc. all were drafted in the range where that pick could land).

[koyotee]

Half way through Chris Paul's rookie season, or even half way through Durant's rookie season, you can just tell, and many other, ''ya this guy is good''. Same with Doncic. Doncic so far reminds me of Durant's rookie season.

i HADN'T THOUGHT MUCH ABOUT IT, BUT tRAE'S PRODUCTION is eerily similar to CP3 as a rookie. And they are similar stature as well.

I believe that Trae could have come into the league and hit the ground running had he stayed for an additional year in school.

But that CP3 comp is really comforting.

I don't see the CP3 comp really working for me. Especially considering CP3 has been an elite defender at the position. Other than bringing up some of CP3's history for either very high level purposes (i.e., similar to comparing him to Durant) or for discrete and limited purposes (such as seeing how CP3's 3pt shooting evolved), I don't see much to be gained out of comparing the two.

*******

It seems pretty crazy to announce that Atlanta has lost the trade not even halfway through the players rookie year and before the 2nd part of the trade (2019 Mavs 1st) has even been selected.

Agree. It is low probability but not inconceivable that the player taken with the Mav's pick could end up being better than either Trae or Doncic. The probability isn't high but it is real. (Karl Malone, Kawhi Leonard, Clyde Drexler, John Stockton, Kobe Bryant, Dirk, Steph Curry, Dr J, Giannis, etc. all were drafted in the range where that pick could land).

You can always hope for the best but the probability of that is really low.

[Atlanta Hawk Fan]

You can always hope for the best but the probability of that is really low.

And you can't judge the results of a trade without actually having the results. It doesn't take the draft pick being the best player to turn this trade to a win for the Hawks. I liked the Doncic side of the deal on draft day and still like it better but I'd be intellectually dishonest if I didn't acknowledge that we won't be able to truly assess the trade for a few years to see what that pick turns into and how Young and Doncic develop.

[macd-gm]

and in just a few weeks since this thread started they've already moved closer together stat wise. Luka's 3 point percentage is still much better but overall shooting % is only 39 vs 43. Luka is averaging 20/5 and Trae 15/7.5 so essentially both are responsible for about 30-35 of the teams points every night.

[Bob8]

and in just a few weeks since this thread started they've already moved closer together stat wise. Luka's 3 point percentage is still much better but overall shooting % is only 39 vs 43. Luka is averaging 20/5 and Trae 15/7.5 so essentially both are responsible for about 30-35 of the teams points every night.

Rpm doesn’t agree. Luka 46th, Trae 466th.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2

[marco102]

and in just a few weeks since this thread started they've already moved closer together stat wise. Luka's 3 point percentage is still much better but overall shooting % is only 39 vs 43. Luka is averaging 20/5 and Trae 15/7.5 so essentially both are responsible for about 30-35 of the teams points every night.

Rpm doesn’t agree. Luka 46th, Trae 466th.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2

How does this refute what macd said?

[Bob8]

and in just a few weeks since this thread started they've already moved closer together stat wise. Luka's 3 point percentage is still much better but overall shooting % is only 39 vs 43. Luka is averaging 20/5 and Trae 15/7.5 so essentially both are responsible for about 30-35 of the teams points every night.

Rpm doesn’t agree. Luka 46th, Trae 466th.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2

How does this refute what macd said?

Luka went from 120th to 46th in last month, Trae didn’t move much. Very good player vs. one of the worst, Rpm wise.

[macd-gm]

Rpm doesn’t agree. Luka 46th, Trae 466th.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2

How does this refute what macd said?

Luka went from 120th to 46th in last month, Trae didn’t move much. Very good player vs. one of the worst, Rpm wise.

Almost every offensive stat for Trae vastly improved from November to December. TS% went from 44% to 53%. Even his overall +/- went from -17 to -3 (which to me isn't really a useful individual stat). That fact that his RPM didn't change much I"m sure is a concern to almost no one.

[Bob8]

How does this refute what macd said?

Luka went from 120th to 46th in last month, Trae didn’t move much. Very good player vs. one of the worst, Rpm wise.

Almost every offensive stat for Trae vastly improved from November to December. TS% went from 44% to 53%. Even his overall +/- went from -17 to -3 (which to me isn't really a useful individual stat). That fact that his RPM didn't change much I"m sure is a concern to almost no one.

You’re very picky, when comparing 2 players. Imho Rpm shows bigger picture than only numerical or shooting stats. But let’s look just numbers, Luka pts. November 17.7 vs. 21.1 in December, that’s big improvement. Trae Young 14 vs. 15.8, improvement too, but less than Luka. Luka assists November 4.2 vs. 6.2 December. Big improvement again. Trae 8.1 in november vs. 7.0 in December. Luka has only marginally worse shooting % in December than in November. But Luka was taking 6.4 3s and Trae only 3.8 in December. I agree Trae improved in some aspects of the game but Luka improved too, except marginally worse shooting %. And Luka’s improvement can be very well seen in RPM. Trae’s Rpm is still very bad because of his defense.

Btw. Luka is with 680.000 votes second, behind LeBron, in the west frontcourt.

[King Ken]

Comparing a rookie to a 4th year pro is pointless and they don't even play the same position or have the same responsibilities. Let's stick to comparing Trae to CP3, Steve Nash, Zeke, and like size, type and position PGs.

Comparing him to a guy who won the MVP in Europe last year as a pro is silly. They don't have the same qualities.

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[marco102]

Luka went from 120th to 46th in last month, Trae didn’t move much. Very good player vs. one of the worst, Rpm wise.

Almost every offensive stat for Trae vastly improved from November to December. TS% went from 44% to 53%. Even his overall +/- went from -17 to -3 (which to me isn't really a useful individual stat). That fact that his RPM didn't change much I"m sure is a concern to almost no one.

You’re very picky, when comparing 2 players. Imho Rpm shows bigger picture than only numerical or shooting stats. But let’s look just numbers, Luka pts. November 17.7 vs. 21.1 in December, that’s big improvement. Trae Young 14 vs. 15.8, improvement too, but less than Luka. Luka assists November 4.2 vs. 6.2 December. Big improvement again. Trae 8.1 in november vs. 7.0 in December. Luka has only marginally worse shooting % in December than in November. But Luka was taking 6.4 3s and Trae only 3.8 in December. I agree Trae improved in some aspects of the game but Luka improved too, except marginally worse shooting %. And Luka’s improvement can be very well seen in RPM. Trae’s Rpm is still very bad because of his defense.

Btw. Luka is with 680.000 votes second, behind LeBron, in the west frontcourt.

Here's where your Luka fandom blinds you! Macd said NOTHING about their defense. He just said their shooting percentages and total points were closer in December. Said nothing about who's better or worse, just that Trae was playing better and the offensive contribution was about the same whenever you considered assists.

Now you are throwing around stats that espn does not even give you the full formula for. Anyway, Luka plays on a better team and is the better player right now. I still don't understand your need to support Luka like he's a Hawk. We get it, he's clearly the rookie of the year. We also get Trae's not a bust which is what some random posters try to attempt to say.

[King Ken]

Almost every offensive stat for Trae vastly improved from November to December. TS% went from 44% to 53%. Even his overall +/- went from -17 to -3 (which to me isn't really a useful individual stat). That fact that his RPM didn't change much I"m sure is a concern to almost no one.

You’re very picky, when comparing 2 players. Imho Rpm shows bigger picture than only numerical or shooting stats. But let’s look just numbers, Luka pts. November 17.7 vs. 21.1 in December, that’s big improvement. Trae Young 14 vs. 15.8, improvement too, but less than Luka. Luka assists November 4.2 vs. 6.2 December. Big improvement again. Trae 8.1 in november vs. 7.0 in December. Luka has only marginally worse shooting % in December than in November. But Luka was taking 6.4 3s and Trae only 3.8 in December. I agree Trae improved in some aspects of the game but Luka improved too, except marginally worse shooting %. And Luka’s improvement can be very well seen in RPM. Trae’s Rpm is still very bad because of his defense.

Btw. Luka is with 680.000 votes second, behind LeBron, in the west frontcourt.

Here's where your Luka fandom blinds you! Macd said NOTHING about their defense. He just said their shooting percentages and total points were closer in December. Said nothing about who's better or worse, just that Trae was playing better and the offensive contribution was about the same whenever you considered assists.

Now you are throwing around stats that espn does not even give you the full formula for. Anyway, Luka plays on a better team and is the better player right now. I still don't understand your need to support Luka like he's a Hawk. We get it, he's clearly the rookie of the year. We also get Trae's not a bust which is what some random posters try to attempt to say.

He is a terrible poster, he spams the general board with his Eminem level stannery

Watch on YouTube

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[graymule]

WOW!

Revolutions per minute = = I suppose that's what you mean.

Luka = 46th

Trae = 466th

Quiet a spread, whatever it means. Does this mean there are 45 players better than Luka and 445 better than Trae?

[Bob8]

Almost every offensive stat for Trae vastly improved from November to December. TS% went from 44% to 53%. Even his overall +/- went from -17 to -3 (which to me isn't really a useful individual stat). That fact that his RPM didn't change much I"m sure is a concern to almost no one.

You’re very picky, when comparing 2 players. Imho Rpm shows bigger picture than only numerical or shooting stats. But let’s look just numbers, Luka pts. November 17.7 vs. 21.1 in December, that’s big improvement. Trae Young 14 vs. 15.8, improvement too, but less than Luka. Luka assists November 4.2 vs. 6.2 December. Big improvement again. Trae 8.1 in november vs. 7.0 in December. Luka has only marginally worse shooting % in December than in November. But Luka was taking 6.4 3s and Trae only 3.8 in December. I agree Trae improved in some aspects of the game but Luka improved too, except marginally worse shooting %. And Luka’s improvement can be very well seen in RPM. Trae’s Rpm is still very bad because of his defense.

Btw. Luka is with 680.000 votes second, behind LeBron, in the west frontcourt.

Here's where your Luka fandom blinds you! Macd said NOTHING about their defense. He just said their shooting percentages and total points were closer in December. Said nothing about who's better or worse, just that Trae was playing better and the offensive contribution was about the same whenever you considered assists.

Now you are throwing around stats that espn does not even give you the full formula for. Anyway, Luka plays on a better team and is the better player right now. I still don't understand your need to support Luka like he's a Hawk. We get it, he's clearly the rookie of the year. We also get Trae's not a bust which is what some random posters try to attempt to say.

No, Macd said, “and in just a few weeks since this thread started they've already moved closer together stat wise.” Is only shooting % stats? Because Luka is further away in points and nearer in assists. Rpm tries to bring all stats together. And I would appreciate an apology.

[Atlanta Hawk Fan]

8-) WOW!

Revolutions per minute = = I suppose that's what you mean.

Luka = 46th

Trae = 466th

Quite a spread, whatever it means. Does this mean there are 45 players better than Luka and 445 better than Trae?

That is what the number is intended to capture. It is another "all in one" metric. They vary over the map, but Trae's advanced numbers are bad this season based largely on his defense, turnovers and shooting struggles. For example, Trae has the 16th worst WS/48, 10th worst PER, 15th worst BPM, and 17th worst VORP among Atlanta players this season. Rookies frequently struggle with these stats (as well as genuinely contributing to winning basketball) which is why you find a bunch of first and second year players near the bottom of the RPM numbers.

[macd-gm]

You’re very picky, when comparing 2 players. Imho Rpm shows bigger picture than only numerical or shooting stats. But let’s look just numbers, Luka pts. November 17.7 vs. 21.1 in December, that’s big improvement. Trae Young 14 vs. 15.8, improvement too, but less than Luka. Luka assists November 4.2 vs. 6.2 December. Big improvement again. Trae 8.1 in november vs. 7.0 in December. Luka has only marginally worse shooting % in December than in November. But Luka was taking 6.4 3s and Trae only 3.8 in December. I agree Trae improved in some aspects of the game but Luka improved too, except marginally worse shooting %. And Luka’s improvement can be very well seen in RPM. Trae’s Rpm is still very bad because of his defense.

Btw. Luka is with 680.000 votes second, behind LeBron, in the west frontcourt.

Here's where your Luka fandom blinds you! Macd said NOTHING about their defense. He just said their shooting percentages and total points were closer in December. Said nothing about who's better or worse, just that Trae was playing better and the offensive contribution was about the same whenever you considered assists.

Now you are throwing around stats that espn does not even give you the full formula for. Anyway, Luka plays on a better team and is the better player right now. I still don't understand your need to support Luka like he's a Hawk. We get it, he's clearly the rookie of the year. We also get Trae's not a bust which is what some random posters try to attempt to say.

No, Macd said, “and in just a few weeks since this thread started they've already moved closer together stat wise.” Is only shooting % stats? Because Luka is further away in points and nearer in assists. Rpm tries to bring all stats together. And I would appreciate an apology.

And they have moved closer together. No apology necessary. My point was that crowning Luka as is and always will be better than Trae is premature. shooting, scoring were the main things pointed to and I was just showing that in a months time the gap in those things isn't so big anymore. That remains a fact. Apology accepted.

[Bob8]

Here's where your Luka fandom blinds you! Macd said NOTHING about their defense. He just said their shooting percentages and total points were closer in December. Said nothing about who's better or worse, just that Trae was playing better and the offensive contribution was about the same whenever you considered assists.

Now you are throwing around stats that espn does not even give you the full formula for. Anyway, Luka plays on a better team and is the better player right now. I still don't understand your need to support Luka like he's a Hawk. We get it, he's clearly the rookie of the year. We also get Trae's not a bust which is what some random posters try to attempt to say.

No, Macd said, “and in just a few weeks since this thread started they've already moved closer together stat wise.” Is only shooting % stats? Because Luka is further away in points and nearer in assists. Rpm tries to bring all stats together. And I would appreciate an apology.

And they have moved closer together. No apology necessary. My point was that crowning Luka as is and always will be better than Trae is premature. shooting, scoring were the main things pointed to and I was just showing that in a months time the gap in those things isn't so big anymore. That remains a fact. Apology accepted.

Yes, but difference in scoring is bigger and diference in assists is closer all in Luka’s favor. Only in 3 points % is Trae nearer to Luka, but like I said Luka is taking much more 3 pointers than Trae. Trae almost halfed his 3 points attempts to have better %. I can see Trae playing better, but Luka had great numbers in second part of December too. Around 24/7/7.

[marco102]

No, Macd said, “and in just a few weeks since this thread started they've already moved closer together stat wise.” Is only shooting % stats? Because Luka is further away in points and nearer in assists. Rpm tries to bring all stats together. And I would appreciate an apology.

And they have moved closer together. No apology necessary. My point was that crowning Luka as is and always will be better than Trae is premature. shooting, scoring were the main things pointed to and I was just showing that in a months time the gap in those things isn't so big anymore. That remains a fact. Apology accepted.

Yes, but difference in scoring is bigger and diference in assists is closer all in Luka’s favor. Only in 3 points % is Trae nearer to Luka, but like I said Luka is taking much more 3 pointers than Trae. Trae almost half his 3 points attempts to have better %. I can see Trae playing better, but Luka had great numbers in second part of December.

And not so great the first part. I'm still not getting the point you're trying to make. We all agree that Luka's playing great. Trae's playing better too. All most defending Trae are saying is the Trade isn't this monumental mess up that most are making it out to be. We won't know for some time.

[Bob8]

And they have moved closer together. No apology necessary. My point was that crowning Luka as is and always will be better than Trae is premature. shooting, scoring were the main things pointed to and I was just showing that in a months time the gap in those things isn't so big anymore. That remains a fact. Apology accepted.

Yes, but difference in scoring is bigger and diference in assists is closer all in Luka’s favor. Only in 3 points % is Trae nearer to Luka, but like I said Luka is taking much more 3 pointers than Trae. Trae almost half his 3 points attempts to have better %. I can see Trae playing better, but Luka had great numbers in second part of December.

And not so great the first part. I'm still not getting the point you're trying to make. We all agree that Luka's playing great. Trae's playing better too. All most defending Trae is saying is the Trade isn't this monumental mess up that most are making it out to be.

I have nothing against Trae, he plays better, but that’s not our conversation. I replied on the post, how Trae is making ground on Luka. Not in points and not in assists. He’s much nearer only in 3 points %, looking only December, but Luka is shooting much more for 3.

But if we leave Luka out of this, Trae is for sure looking much better than in November.

[High 5]

But if we leave Luka out of this, Trae is for sure looking much better than in November.

You leaving Luka out of a discussion on the Atlanta Hawks message board? That'll be the day.

And coming over here to brag about ASG voting? Come on, even you're better than that. Lin and VC are both in the top 10. Yippee!