Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[Dat2U]

The 2nd trade is a clear win for us. Jackson doesnt have a high ceiling, but he appears to be a rotation worthy wing that can score efficiently and stay in his lane.
Getting out of the tax this year and Mahinmi's contract also gives us an opening to take on salary for a pick.
I.E. Ariza & Green to Houston for Knight, Hartenstein, Clark, 2019 1st

With no Wall or Otto, we most certainly continue our slide into a higher pick.

A win, man you guys must really hate Porter, it's absurd to qualify this as anything but terrible.

LOLOL. Did you even read the trade. We are dumping 10M immediately and 40M!!!! next year, while getting a decent depth wing prospect in Jackson. Are you even registering that type of value?
You can say you'd lean towards not accepting it, but for you to find it laughable or terrible simply shows your lack of comprehension in the market.
Like I said above, you could turn around and do the Ariza trade and next year have:
Jackson, Hartenstein, Clark, 2019 1st for Otto ... Those assets plus the 23M in cap savings is certainly worth it, especially if we helps get us a higher pick this year

Jackson is trash. I like Clark but hes a rookie FA.

Basically it's the Wizards taking poo poo platter to save Ted a boat load of money. **** Ted and his money. What would we even do with the cap savings? Sign the next Mahinmi & Nicholson so we can rinse repeat three years from now?

The last thing Ernie needs is cap flexibility.

[dckingsfan]

Gotcha - I know where you are coming from. I guess I am adamantly opposed to stretching Mahimni and I am pretty convinced Howard is coming back. So, we will have 116M against 6 players.
Wall
Beal
Brown
Porter
Howard/Mahimni

We would have a first round pick and a 16M to flesh out the roster. I am pretty certain that doesn't get us past the Bucks, Pacers, 76ers or Celtics and might not get us past the next 4 teams in the east.

I think that is a pretty dire long-term prognosis. Then again - if we were to get one of the top two picks in the draft, it could work out well.

The chances of the Zards getting one of the top two picks in the draft may be slimmer than the chances of the team getting past the Bucks, Pacers, Sixers, Celts and Raptors.

However, on the other hand, if they stretched Ian and came back next season with a roster that featured Wall, Beal, Sato, Brown, Porter, Howard, Bryant, Green and a 1st round pick, I think the Zards could be competitive in the East, certainly right there with the Bucks and Pacers...and the Raptors if the can't resign Kawhi.

Why not just keep Mahimni on the roster and be done with him in one year? Why cripple us for more than one year especially when we most likely can't crack the top 4 in the east? I assume you mean we could squeak into the playoffs with the roster you suggest?

[pcbothwel]

But there is a reality here - we need to move one of Wall, Beal or Porter. It would give you a chance to resign Bryant, Dekker and Satoransky if you want, so is it optimal, no. is it terrible, also no.

Code: Select all

Player           2019-20
John Wall       $37,800,000
Bradley Beal    $27,093,019
Dwight Howard    $5,603,850
Justin Jackson   $3,280,920
Troy Brown       $3,219,480
Yogi Ferrell     $3,150,000
                $80,147,269

The Wizards don't need to move anybody.

It goes without saying that the Wizards are basically locked into their roster if they don't, but the situation isn't quite as dire as people are making it out to be.

By stretching Mahinmi the Wizards still have enough salary cap flexibility to resign their RFAs, sign their rookie and if Howard opts out, they'd gain additional flexibility to fill out their roster.

We're talking anywhere from $26 to $31 million before the Wizards would hit the luxury tax threshold under that scenario.

Moving positive assets to avoid a squeeze is the worst way for Washington to move forward.

Couldnt agree more. I was simply pointing out that there is an opportunity cost. I assume Dwight comes back and shows enough that he opts out if Mahinmi and Bryant are here. I am open to giving this squad another shot with a mid lotto pick and an improved Bryant & Brown.
But understand, this summer is going to be a big sellers market with a number of big markets left out in the cold. It would be a perfect time to rebuild. And a number of REALLY good players will be available in the late lotto - mid 1st (Reid, Porter, Little, Garland, Nickeil, Sekou, etc.)

[nate33]

Why not just keep Mahimni on the roster and be done with him in one year? Why cripple us for more than one year especially when we most likely can't crack the top 4 in the east? I assume you mean we could squeak into the playoffs with the roster you suggest?

I think it boils down to whether or not we are in Repeater Tax territory.

If we managed to get under the luxtax this year, then there really wouldn't be any reason to stretch Mahinmi next year. We can pay what it takes to sign our draft pick and resign Sato and Bryant (and possibly Dekker and Green) and if we go over the luxtax threshold by a few million dollars, it's no big deal. The luxtax fine on the first $5M over the tax is just $1.5 for very $1 dollar exceeded. So if we're $5M over the tax, the luxtax fee is $7.5M. I'd rather see us pay a one-time $7.5M fee than stretch Mahinmi so that his phantom salary takes up $5M of our cap for 2 more seasons afterward.

But if we don't get below the luxtax this year, we will be in repeater tax territory next year. The repeater tax is a $2.5 fine for every $1 over the tax. So if Mahinmi's contract gets us $5M over the tax, the luxtax fee will be a whopping $12.5M. I could see Ted choosing to stretch Mahinmi to save that $12.5M, even if it means his phantom salary is on the books at $5M a year for the following 2 years.

This whole conversation is so frustrating. The smart path going forward is painfully simple: Trade Ariza and Morris for smaller contracts and get under the luxtax while hopefully tanking for a top 8 pick (and a 31.9% shot at a top 4 pick). Even if they don't tank well and finish with the 10th worst record, at least the luxtax problems go away, the repeater tax problem goes away, Brown and Dekker get more development time, and team chemistry benefits by not having Morris' lazy, inconsistent butt around. Plus, we would probably acquire at least 1 extra 2nd round pick in any Ariza trade.

Write this season off. Trade the guys who are certain to be gone in the summer anyhow. Get whatever you can in cap relief and 2nd round picks. The remaining players can still try and win, that doesn't bother me. But don't devote future assets for a Quixotic attempt to make the playoffs only to get destroyed by Toronto or Milwaukee in the 1st round.

[dckingsfan]

A win, man you guys must really hate Porter, it's absurd to qualify this as anything but terrible.

LOLOL. Did you even read the trade. We are dumping 10M immediately and 40M!!!! next year, while getting a decent depth wing prospect in Jackson. Are you even registering that type of value?
You can say you'd lean towards not accepting it, but for you to find it laughable or terrible simply shows your lack of comprehension in the market.
Like I said above, you could turn around and do the Ariza trade and next year have:
Jackson, Hartenstein, Clark, 2019 1st for Otto ... Those assets plus the 23M in cap savings is certainly worth it, especially if we helps get us a higher pick this year

Jackson is trash. I like Clark but hes a rookie FA.

Basically it's the Wizards taking poo poo platter to save Ted a boat load of money. **** Ted and his money. What would we even do with the cap savings? Sign the next Mahinmi & Nicholson so we can rinse repeat three years from now?

The last thing Ernie needs is cap flexibility.

With respect, Jackson is much improved and so is Ferrell. I know, they are from Sac so they are flying under the radar.

And with respect. Ernie with or without cap flexibility is a disaster, no? Aren't those independent arguments?

Dat for GM!!!

[Induveca]

I would trade Porter for that deal any day of the week

[Ruzious]

I'd still rather keep Porter - if he's really healthy - because I think he's better than what we can get for him.

I think we can get a ton for Beal and should probably take advantage of that. Boston might be a good target, because they seem to have fallen to 4th best in the East and they might have 4... first round picks in 2019 - depending on protections. They're more likely than not going to get Memphis pick (now 13th with top 8 protection) and the Clippers (now 19th/20th). But they also have under-performing players that they might be under-valueing now. I'd try:

Beal and Markeiff Morris for Gordon Haywood, the Memphis pick, and the Clippers pick.

Haywood was a legit star in 2016/2017, but missed all last season, and hasn't shot well this season. Granted, he's a risk because he may never get back to that elite level, but he does have an excellent assist/to ratio, so the rest of his game looks good, and I'm guessing the shooting/scoring will come next season. And maybe moving Jaylen Brown to the 3 will help his game - which has been very inconsistent - not unusual for such a young player, but I think a change to the 3 where he wouldn't have ball-hanlding duties - would help him and the Celtics. I think the Celtics have extra incentives to win this year, because Horford could be in decline. And the trade would actually be freeing up another 5 million plus for next season.

For the Wiz, they save a little money this season - getting them closer to avoiding the lux tax, It does cost them a little more next season, because Haywood's making 5 mil plus more than Beal, but if they can get under the lux tax limit this season, that saves them on the multiplier next season. Roster-wise, Haywood's been a better player than Beal is and may get that back next season. And adding 2 firsts to the lotto pick we'll likely have in the 2019 draft gives us lots of flexibility.

I'm dead against a Beal trade, but if we were to move him, this is the kind of return I would expect to get.

I'm scared to death of having the contracts of both Hayward and Wall on this roster. At the very least, we should make them eat Mahinmi's contract in that transaction. They may not mind so much because it will give them the necessary "filler" in a Davis acquisition.

It'd definitely be a risk taking on Hayward's salary. But if last night's an indication, Boston's probably not going to try to trade him. But say we did make that trade, I'm thinking we'd try to use the last first to get someone to take Mahinmi.

[popper]

We need to lose 8 or 9 games out of the next 10 to extinguish all hope of making the playoffs. Only then will the idiots that run this franchise do the wise thing and start trading players (Morris, Green, Ariza, etc.). We're stuck with Wall and Mahinmi so I'm one who advocates trading Porter or Beal to start a proper rebuild on the fly. Stockpile young cheap players and draft picks. Resign Sato, Green, Bryant. Fire EG ASAP.

[trast66]

Why not just keep Mahimni on the roster and be done with him in one year? Why cripple us for more than one year especially when we most likely can't crack the top 4 in the east? I assume you mean we could squeak into the playoffs with the roster you suggest?

I think it boils down to whether or not we are in Repeater Tax territory.

If we managed to get under the luxtax this year, then there really wouldn't be any reason to stretch Mahinmi next year. We can pay what it takes to sign our draft pick and resign Sato and Bryant (and possibly Dekker and Green) and if we go over the luxtax threshold by a few million dollars, it's no big deal. The luxtax fine on the first $5M over the tax is just $1.5 for very $1 dollar exceeded. So if we're $5M over the tax, the luxtax fee is $7.5M. I'd rather see us pay a one-time $7.5M fee than stretch Mahinmi so that his phantom salary takes up $5M of our cap for 2 more seasons afterward.

But if we don't get below the luxtax this year, we will be in repeater tax territory next year. The repeater tax is a $2.5 fine for every $1 over the tax. So if Mahinmi's contract gets us $5M over the tax, the luxtax fee will be a whopping $12.5M. I could see Ted choosing to stretch Mahinmi to save that $12.5M, even if it means his phantom salary is on the books at $5M a year for the following 2 years.

This whole conversation is so frustrating. The smart path going forward is painfully simple: Trade Ariza and Morris for smaller contracts and get under the luxtax while hopefully tanking for a top 8 pick (and a 31.9% shot at a top 4 pick). Even if they don't tank well and finish with the 10th worst record, at least the luxtax problems go away, the repeater tax problem goes away, Brown and Dekker get more development time, and team chemistry benefits by not having Morris' lazy, inconsistent butt around. Plus, we would probably acquire at least 1 extra 2nd round pick in any Ariza trade.

Write this season off. Trade the guys who are certain to be gone in the summer anyhow. Get whatever you can in cap relief and 2nd round picks. The remaining players can still try and win, that doesn't bother me. But don't devote future assets for a Quixotic attempt to make the playoffs only to get destroyed by Toronto or Milwaukee in the 1st round.

Co-sign 100% except maybe on The Mahinmi Stretch, which really could be it’s own thread, so many varaiables. What about repeater tax year after next and forward for example if in tax next year? And if Bryant and Sato aren’t as cheap as we think they are? What about money for our first round pick? Howard opts in? Probably have to wait and see what happens in draft and free agency though I assume there is a deadline to stretch.

[payitforward]

...The last thing Ernie needs is cap flexibility.

This is wisdom. Unless & until Ernie is replaced there is no future for this franchise along any path whatever. He has a proven -- repeatedly proven -- inability to build a roster beyond making the default pick at #1, 2 or 3.

Obviously, whoever is in charge, it makes sense to get under the luxury tax this year -- if only to make it possible for another GM to operate w/ a little more freedom come the off season.

[payitforward]

The Wizards don't need to move anybody. ...By stretching Mahinmi the Wizards still have enough salary cap flexibility to resign their RFAs, sign their rookie and if Howard opts out, they'd gain additional flexibility to fill out their roster.

We're talking anywhere from $26 to $31 million before the Wizards would hit the luxury tax threshold under that scenario....

?? We would be at $101m for 5 players. If Howard picks up his option & we add, say, a #6 pick, make it $111m for 7 players.

If we re-sign Sato, Bryant & Dekker for a total of say $15m, we are at 10 guys & $126m. That leaves us $12m to sign another 4 players.

Congratulations. We will be able to field a team as good as the team we field right now -- a team that is 15-23 -- & stay just under the luxury tax.

What's good about that?

[payitforward]

...if they stretched Ian and came back next season with a roster that featured Wall, Beal, Sato, Brown, Porter, Howard, Bryant, Green and a 1st round pick, I think the Zards could be competitive in the East, certainly right there with the Bucks and Pacers...and the Raptors if the can't resign Kawhi.

This is, in a way, a kind of watershed post from Zards. That is, if you subscribe to this point of view you have one view about the Wizards future. If you don't subscribe to it, you would be likely to have an entirely different view. Accordingly, you'd also have an entirely different idea of how to proceed.

Aside from the R1 rookie, that is exactly the same roster that we "came back this season with."

Hence, it would seem to me, writing as Zards does indicates a belief that we have quite a good roster -- a roster that's competitive with Milwaukee (currently 26-10) & Indiana (currently 25-12), even though we've gone 15-23 so far (& were equally bad earlier in the season when John Wall was playing quite well). Obviously if that is what a person thinks, then there is no need for a rebuild, & in fact the current rebuild of the Wizards has been rather successful.

If you don't subscribe to this POV -- if you think that with more or less the same roster next year as this year, the results will be more or less the same next year as this year -- then it's hard to imagine wanting to proceed more or less on the same course we're on & field essentially the same guys next year as this year. Instead, you'd be likely to want pretty significant changes, movement towards a deep, structural rebuild of the Washington Wizards.

Does that seem right, Zards? I don't want to put words in your mouth. If not, what am I missing?

[DCZards]

Yup...you have it mostly right, PIF. I see Wall, Beal, Porter, Sato, Bryant, Howard, Brown and Green forming the nucleus of a team that could be competitive with teams like Indy and Milwaukee. Need other pieces but those 8 guys represent a decent start, imo.

[dangermouse]

In this debate I think it must be noted that we have suffered injuries to key players (Wall, Otto and, yes, Dwight Howard). Most of those guys even tried playing through their injury to our detriment. We have also suffered Ian Mahinmi getting minutes because of Dwight. It wasn't until very recently that Bryant got any minutes at all, and absolutely exploded into Clint Capela-lite. We also didn't have Ariza and Dekker on the team. Lastly, we had Morris as our starting PF.

Saying that next season we'll be the same team that started this season is a falsehood for the above reasons.

[dangermouse]

Ernie needs to look for somewhere to trade Ariza or Morris. Tough choice between those two. Getting Morris the hell away from our young guys is a necessity. Ariza is a great veteran presence, you could see that in his interactions with Beal when he was close to a tech the other game.... however he has the bigger contract and will be easier to trade to get us under the tax line this year. Moving Ariza should also mean more minutes for Brown Jr. Getting a late 1st for Ariza would also be extremely helpful if possible.

Go over the tax next season to re-sign the new guys like Bryant and Dekker as well as Sato, with our core players and returning Brown, and our 1st round picks.

[pcbothwel]

Yup...you have it mostly right, PIF. I see Wall, Beal, Porter, Sato, Bryant, Howard, Brown and Green forming the nucleus of a team that could be competitive with teams like Indy and Milwaukee. Need other pieces but those 8 guys represent a decent start, imo.

Im in the middle. But you might have a point in that stretching Mahinmi might not be terrible. Wall's injury means he's going NOWHERE in the next 12 months. Unless you get a real strong package for Beal or Otto, we may just be best taking one more shot with them next year as we have 2 more years for each of the two.

I dont particularly have faith that either of the 3 will make some superstar leap, but Sato, Bryant, Brown, top 7 pick will be far and away the most talented group of support players we've had in god knows how long.

Add in Green and Dwight (Assuming slightly diminished version and we could have an talented team with youth/upside. At worst, decent basketball until we get a strong rebuilding offer for one of our core 3.

Hell, maybe Bol's foot injury makes him slip to 7/8?

[The Consiglieri]

A win, man you guys must really hate Porter, it's absurd to qualify this as anything but terrible.

LOLOL. Did you even read the trade. We are dumping 10M immediately and 40M!!!! next year, while getting a decent depth wing prospect in Jackson. Are you even registering that type of value?
You can say you'd lean towards not accepting it, but for you to find it laughable or terrible simply shows your lack of comprehension in the market.
Like I said above, you could turn around and do the Ariza trade and next year have:
Jackson, Hartenstein, Clark, 2019 1st for Otto ... Those assets plus the 23M in cap savings is certainly worth it, especially if we helps get us a higher pick this year

Jackson is trash. I like Clark but hes a rookie FA.

Basically it's the Wizards taking poo poo platter to save Ted a boat load of money. **** Ted and his money. What would we even do with the cap savings? Sign the next Mahinmi & Nicholson so we can rinse repeat three years from now?

The last thing Ernie needs is cap flexibility.

This, a 1000x this.

I couldn't give less of a ---- about the repeater tax and the luxury tax and the rest of that bull----. Ted hired this talentless hack 15 years ago and decades later he's still in place despite never building a team that could win more than one series, and consistently finishing outside of the playoffs. You don't want to pay the Lux Tax or the repeater?

Tough ----.

You could have fired this idiot after gun gate.

You could have fired this idiot after he took a dump in his pants during the '09 draft and generated the worst draft day trade of this new century in sending away the rights to a pick that could have (and based on mocks should've) landed us the player of the new century not named LeBron. Instead he traded it for an offing Randy Foye and Mike Miller rental.

You could have fired him after he botched all the 2010 and 2011 draft picks he did keep that weren't the #1 overall, including a top 5 pick.

You could have fired him after the idiotic sell out for Durant move when everyone with a functioning brain cell knew he wasn't such a colossal idiot that he'd jump to a team with zero chance of winning a title.

You could have fired him after losing out on Durant when the smart move was to lick your wounds, find some cheap fill ins that could bandaid the situation, and play for the future but instead, he threw mad cash like the rest of the NBA's cellar dwelling morons, at total non-entities on long term deals to appease angry fans. Meanwhile the smart teams held onto their cash for the future classes when the cap flattened out at fair market value and not flooded market valuations. Needless to say, neither he nor you (Ted) we're smart, indeed perhaps King Idiot, lord of all the idiots you survey considering who you gave that absurd contract too to salve your wounds.

So get it through your thick head Ted, THIS IS ALL YOUR EFFING FAULT. The Buck stops with you, even if your idiot GM is throwing it anywhere and everywhere other than where it belongs. You made the choice to keep this talentless dolt for decades past his sell by date, despite warning after warning of how inept he was in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and on and on and on, you heeded NOT ONE of the nearly infinite pile of screaming warning signs, instead doubling down on that fool.

The tax for that kind of idiocy is harsh, just be glad you have an owner even stupider than you running the redskins to deflect the attention away from how thoroughly you've botched the process of rebuilding this joke of a franchise. If not for Snyder, the torches would be headed toward the Cap One Center, instead of Redskins Park. Paying a repeater tax and a lux tax is the least of your problems. Fire the idiot and maybe the fans will reconsider the sour taste they in their mouths, until then, enjoy that bitter taste of tax penalties as it's far lighter of a penalty to pay then poor DC sports fans have had to pay for being born into DC sports fandom in the first place.

[dckingsfan]

...if they stretched Ian and came back next season with a roster that featured Wall, Beal, Sato, Brown, Porter, Howard, Bryant, Green and a 1st round pick, I think the Zards could be competitive in the East, certainly right there with the Bucks and Pacers...and the Raptors if the can't resign Kawhi.

This is, in a way, a kind of watershed post from Zards. That is, if you subscribe to this point of view you have one view about the Wizards future. If you don't subscribe to it, you would be likely to have an entirely different view. Accordingly, you'd also have an entirely different idea of how to proceed.

Aside from the R1 rookie, that is exactly the same roster that we "came back this season with."

Hence, it would seem to me, writing as Zards does indicates a belief that we have quite a good roster -- a roster that's competitive with Milwaukee (currently 26-10) & Indiana (currently 25-12), even though we've gone 15-23 so far (& were equally bad earlier in the season when John Wall was playing quite well). Obviously if that is what a person thinks, then there is no need for a rebuild, & in fact the current rebuild of the Wizards has been rather successful.

If you don't subscribe to this POV -- if you think that with more or less the same roster next year as this year, the results will be more or less the same next year as this year -- then it's hard to imagine wanting to proceed more or less on the same course we're on & field essentially the same guys next year as this year. Instead, you'd be likely to want pretty significant changes, movement towards a deep, structural rebuild of the Washington Wizards.

Does that seem right, Zards? I don't want to put words in your mouth. If not, what am I missing?

This is a solid post - and one that makes me feel better about Zards and the others on that side of the fence.

I think that that core moves us to a bottom 4 in the playoffs at best. You still have the Wall/Beal ball domination - and that just isn't going to change keeping this core together. The learning and habits are very much engrained in this group. GA and the Bucks are way out of reach of that group. Same with the Celts, Pacers and Sixers with their athleticism. Hopefully Toronto will explode this off-season.

But I can see if you believed that the core SHOULD be in the top 4 you would want to keep them together.

[pcbothwel]

LOLOL. Did you even read the trade. We are dumping 10M immediately and 40M!!!! next year, while getting a decent depth wing prospect in Jackson. Are you even registering that type of value?
You can say you'd lean towards not accepting it, but for you to find it laughable or terrible simply shows your lack of comprehension in the market.
Like I said above, you could turn around and do the Ariza trade and next year have:
Jackson, Hartenstein, Clark, 2019 1st for Otto ... Those assets plus the 23M in cap savings is certainly worth it, especially if we helps get us a higher pick this year

Jackson is trash. I like Clark but hes a rookie FA.

Basically it's the Wizards taking poo poo platter to save Ted a boat load of money. **** Ted and his money. What would we even do with the cap savings? Sign the next Mahinmi & Nicholson so we can rinse repeat three years from now?

The last thing Ernie needs is cap flexibility.

This, a 1000x this.

I couldn't give less of a ---- about the repeater tax and the luxury tax and the rest of that bull----. Ted hired this talentless hack 15 years ago and decades later he's still in place despite never building a team that could win more than one series, and consistently finishing outside of the playoffs. You don't want to pay the Lux Tax or the repeater?

Tough ----.

You could have fired this idiot after gun gate.

You could have fired this idiot after he took a dump in his pants during the '09 draft and generated the worst draft day trade of this new century in sending away the rights to a pick that could have (and based on mocks should've) landed us the player of the new century not named LeBron. Instead he traded it for an offing Randy Foye and Mike Miller rental.

You could have fired him after he botched all the 2010 and 2011 draft picks he did keep that weren't the #1 overall, including a top 5 pick.

You could have fired him after the idiotic sell out for Durant move when everyone with a functioning brain cell knew he wasn't such a colossal idiot that he'd jump to a team with zero chance of winning a title.

You could have fired him after losing out on Durant when the smart move was to lick your wounds, find some cheap fill ins that could bandaid the situation, and play for the future but instead, he threw mad cash like the rest of the NBA's cellar dwelling morons, at total non-entities on long term deals to appease angry fans. Meanwhile the smart teams held onto their cash for the future classes when the cap flattened out at fair market value and not flooded market valuations. Needless to say, neither he nor you (Ted) we're smart, indeed perhaps King Idiot, lord of all the idiots you survey considering who you gave that absurd contract too to salve your wounds.

So get it through your thick head Ted, THIS IS ALL YOUR EFFING FAULT. The Buck stops with you, even if your idiot GM is throwing it anywhere and everywhere other than where it belongs. You made the choice to keep this talentless dolt for decades past his sell by date, despite warning after warning of how inept he was in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 and on and on and on, you heeded NOT ONE of the nearly infinite pile of screaming warning signs, instead doubling down on that fool.

The tax for that kind of idiocy is harsh, just be glad you have an owner even stupider than you running the redskins to deflect the attention away from how thoroughly you've botched the process of rebuilding this joke of a franchise. If not for Snyder, the torches would be headed toward the Cap One Center, instead of Redskins Park. Paying a repeater tax and a lux tax is the least of your problems. Fire the idiot and maybe the fans will reconsider the sour taste they in their mouths, until then, enjoy that bitter taste of tax penalties as it's far lighter of a penalty to pay then poor DC sports fans have had to pay for being born into DC sports fandom in the first place.

Listen, thats all well and good. I appreciate the emotional and heartfelt feelings towards this organization, and I feel the same way.

But again, I dont come on this board to promote transactions/paths forward that dont make business sense. I know this is all for fun, but I want to keep it as reality based as possible.

You, Dat, I, and most everyone else doesnt give a damn about Ted's money and repeating the tax, but you know who does....
Ted.... As does any GM that would work for him.

We need to keep that in mind

[nate33]

...if they stretched Ian and came back next season with a roster that featured Wall, Beal, Sato, Brown, Porter, Howard, Bryant, Green and a 1st round pick, I think the Zards could be competitive in the East, certainly right there with the Bucks and Pacers...and the Raptors if the can't resign Kawhi.

This is, in a way, a kind of watershed post from Zards. That is, if you subscribe to this point of view you have one view about the Wizards future. If you don't subscribe to it, you would be likely to have an entirely different view. Accordingly, you'd also have an entirely different idea of how to proceed.

Aside from the R1 rookie, that is exactly the same roster that we "came back this season with."

Hence, it would seem to me, writing as Zards does indicates a belief that we have quite a good roster -- a roster that's competitive with Milwaukee (currently 26-10) & Indiana (currently 25-12), even though we've gone 15-23 so far (& were equally bad earlier in the season when John Wall was playing quite well). Obviously if that is what a person thinks, then there is no need for a rebuild, & in fact the current rebuild of the Wizards has been rather successful.

If you don't subscribe to this POV -- if you think that with more or less the same roster next year as this year, the results will be more or less the same next year as this year -- then it's hard to imagine wanting to proceed more or less on the same course we're on & field essentially the same guys next year as this year. Instead, you'd be likely to want pretty significant changes, movement towards a deep, structural rebuild of the Washington Wizards.

Does that seem right, Zards? I don't want to put words in your mouth. If not, what am I missing?

This is a solid post - and one that makes me feel better about Zards and the others on that side of the fence.

I think that that core moves us to a bottom 4 in the playoffs at best. You still have the Wall/Beal ball domination - and that just isn't going to change keeping this core together. The learning and habits are very much engrained in this group. GA and the Bucks are way out of reach of that group. Same with the Celts, Pacers and Sixers with their athleticism. Hopefully Toronto will explode this off-season.

But I can see if you believed that the core SHOULD be in the top 4 you would want to keep them together.

Another way to look at it is that a total blow up is impossible right now due to the injuries to Wall and Howard - perhaps not impossible, but ill-advised because their trade values are suppressed.

With that the case, a reasonable argument can be made that we should give it one more try next year before looking to blow things up. I'm okay with that. All I want is for management to acknowledge that THIS year is hopeless and that we should do our best to convert any assets that we will lose this summer into assets that we can utilize next year. That's the argument for trading Ariza and Morris (and possibly Green if we don't think he can be retained). Trade them for future picks or to save money this year so that we're more willing to spend the money to retain Sato and Bryant next year. It'll also help the tank and improved our draft position.

I think it's also fair to conclude that the trio of Wall, Beal and Porter just don't seem to have the right type of chemistry to excel in this league. I'm not sure if it's their playing styles, their personalities, or it's just that they don't like each other very much. Or maybe it's just the coaching. Whatever the cause, I think a change is needed. If we could trade one of the three for fair value in the offseason, I'd be open to it. Alternatively, we need to fire Brooks and find a new coach who can maximize their respective talents.