Bulls trade for cash, waive MCW + Brooks

[Scotty Pippen]

A good management would use their cap space/trade exceptions to gather basketball assets like 2nd rounders/pick swaps.

Instead the Bulls use it to pay down their cap obligations above the salary floor (which is the bare minimum that teams have to pay NBA players each season).

This. The fact that the Bulls didn’t send out much value is miscontextualizing the move. Why did they send out any value at all? And why didn’t they receive any back?

It’s a nothing move. The Bulls would have to be a top 5 team in 2020 for it to go to Houston. I think we would all be ok with that.

[League Circles]

A good management would use their cap space/trade exceptions to gather basketball assets like 2nd rounders/pick swaps.

Instead the Bulls use it to pay down their cap obligations above the salary floor (which is the bare minimum that teams have to pay NBA players each season).

This. The fact that the Bulls didn’t send out much value is miscontextualizing the move. Why did they send out any value at all? And why didn’t they receive any back?

The miscontextualizing is you treating this like a basketball trade instead of two business partners doing each other a solid.

This doesn't preclude any other deals you might want to see, like the other one we just completed.

[Ccwatercraft]

It does seem to me like this kind of trade is circumventing the cap and avoiding the lux tax penalty via a loophole and should be strongly discouraged by the league.

[kingkirk]

That's partly why I didn't understand why people thought we got such a good return on Holiday. I'm assuming we'll end up selling those picks, but would love to be proven wrong.

If the draft was today, our 2nd round pick would've been 34. Sadly we don't own that pick.

I'd be lying if I said the thought of them selling those picks down the line didn't cross my mind. That said, I'll crush them if (when) they do it.

But, to your point, during tanking years, a team's own second rounder is valuable. Last three seasons there's players taken at or after where the Bulls picked who'd I'd love to have here. Hell, the Nets were starting Rodions Kurucs against the Bulls. He'll be decent. Pick 40.

Ugh.

[musiqsoulchild]

Thoughts:

- If you read the article then there's no way you're mad at this

- Reacting in time without the article, just the tweet, there was no mention of the protection so I somewhat get the anger

- The front office did nothing wrong on this deal. Yes, fans should be less ignorant. At the same time, the fact that the sentiment goes to a dark place speaks volumes about perception of management. It's understandable given their history.

That's partly why I didn't understand why people thought we got such a good return on Holiday. I'm assuming we'll end up selling those picks, but would love to be proven wrong.

If the draft was today, our 2nd round pick would've been 34. Sadly we don't own that pick.

We got a good deal on Holiday because of what trading him accomplished. In terms of opening up playing time as we well as giving an additional asset for 2019 and another in 2020.

The asset itself maybe not as important. However, even as a placeholder for a future trade for Cash...its still a good trade.

Because, we may not think much of our FO. However when they accomplish trades like this - they really open up channels that allow future trades.

For example, when GSW wants to dump salary we will be one of the first teams they will call.

[kingkirk]

It does seem to me like this kind of trade is circumventing the cap and avoiding the lux tax penalty via a loophole and should be strongly discouraged by the league.

It's not circumventing the cap at all. Team's trade players into space all the time. There's absolutely no reason for such a move to be discouraged. If so, why?

[Wingy]

All odds say this ain't gonna make or break anything, but one minuscule drawback I haven't seen mentioned is that this asset is now tied up until the end of the 2020 season.

[Ccwatercraft]

It does seem to me like this kind of trade is circumventing the cap and avoiding the lux tax penalty via a loophole and should be strongly discouraged by the league.

It's not circumventing the cap at all. Team's trade players into space all the time. There's absolutely no reason for such a move to be discouraged. If so, why?

they are bypassing the luxury tax by paying off a team vs paying the league the appropriate tax per the CBA, if the pick at least had a punchers chance of conveying then fine, but this is a slim to none type chance.

[Evil_Headband]

Realgm has the protected 2020 pick in question as the Grizzlies, not the Bulls.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

[Red Larrivee]

Read on Twitter

Well, that didn't take long.

I don't see how they're related.

There’s a long history of the Whites Sox making big spends after the Bulls sell off an asset. You would think it is coincidental given that ownership for each team is by group, not by Reinsdorf but it’s happened with enough frequency to suggest otherwise. (And why the hell are the Sox announcing this deal anyway.) Let’s see if the Sox make a big offer to Manny Machado.

So, because of this trade (where the Bulls are using the cash to offset the salary owed to MCW and Brooks) the White Sox can now afford to make Machado an offer?

Just rewind that back a few times.

[Red Larrivee]

Realgm has the protected 2020 pick in question as the Grizzlies, not the Bulls.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

Basically, the Bulls are getting the pick unless they're a Top-5 team in the league next season.

[P.C.]

A good management would use their cap space/trade exceptions to gather basketball assets like 2nd rounders/pick swaps.

Instead the Bulls use it to pay down their cap obligations above the salary floor (which is the bare minimum that teams have to pay NBA players each season).

This. The fact that the Bulls didn’t send out much value is miscontextualizing the move. Why did they send out any value at all? And why didn’t they receive any back?

The miscontextualizing is you treating this like a basketball trade instead of two business partners doing each other a solid.

This doesn't preclude any other deals you might want to see, like the other one we just completed.

A million dollars changed hands . . . there was no solid done for either party. The Bulls could have asked for the equivalent of one million in assets but elected for cash instead. That's not how you build a team.

[kingkirk]

they are bypassing the luxury tax by paying off a team vs paying the league the appropriate tax per the CBA, if the pick at least had a punchers chance of conveying then fine, but this is a slim to none type chance.

Team's can bypass having to pay tax by making legitimate moves that return players too. It happens all the time. It's not a problem.

[RememberLu]

As far as I know, the White Sox and the Bulls are operated like two separate businesses. There's no co-mingling of corporate assets as that would require shareholder consent

[Red Larrivee]

A million dollars changed hands . . . there was no solid done for either party. The Bulls could have asked for the equivalent of one million in assets but elected for cash instead. That's not how you build a team.

It's not that deep, nor was it a team building deal. It's a trade to help two owners save money and build equity with each other.

[Evil_Headband]

Realgm has the protected 2020 pick in question as the Grizzlies, not the Bulls.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

Pick is protected for 31-55. If it somehow lands in 56-60, the pick would go to Houston who would then convey it back to Memphis, since they now have it protected for 56-60.

Basically, the Bulls are getting the pick unless they're a Top-5 team in the league next season.

I’m not sure I’m following your explanation. From my understanding, it’s clearest as outgoing from Memphis:

2020 second round draft pick to Chicago or Houston
Memphis' 2020 2nd round pick to Chicago protected for selections 56-60 or to Houston (via Chicago) protected for selections 31-55 (Memphis' obligation to Chicago or Houston will thereafter be extinguished) [Chicago-Memphis, 1/3/2019; Chicago-Houston, 1/7/2019]

Thus, Bulls get Memphis pick if 31-55 or Houston gets it if 56-60.

[Red Larrivee]

Realgm has the protected 2020 pick in question as the Grizzlies, not the Bulls.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/detailed

Pick is protected for 31-55. If it somehow lands in 56-60, the pick would go to Houston who would then convey it back to Memphis, since they now have it protected for 56-60.

Basically, the Bulls are getting the pick unless they're a Top-5 team in the league next season.

I’m not sure I’m following your explanation. From my understand, it’s clearest as outgoing from Memphis:

2020 second round draft pick to Chicago or Houston
Memphis' 2020 2nd round pick to Chicago protected for selections 56-60 or to Houston (via Chicago) protected for selections 31-55 (Memphis' obligation to Chicago or Houston will thereafter be extinguished) [Chicago-Memphis, 1/3/2019; Chicago-Houston, 1/7/2019]

Thus, Bulls get Memphis pick if 31-55 or Houston gets it if 56-60.

You're right, I misread it as Memphis got protections added to it for 56-60.

[petebraun0]

Can someone explain the Michael Carter Williams situation? Why not keep him? He has size for a guard.

Why did we make this trade, just for the cash? Doing Houston a favor.? Strange trade.

We also cut Brooks, and now have 14 players. Wouldn't Brooks have added a vet to our young roster, who could have taught our
young guys how to play?

Trying to make sense of what is going on. Thanks.

[The Box Office]

He sucked when he was here the first time. He was useless and added nothing.

[League Circles]

This. The fact that the Bulls didn’t send out much value is miscontextualizing the move. Why did they send out any value at all? And why didn’t they receive any back?

The miscontextualizing is you treating this like a basketball trade instead of two business partners doing each other a solid.

This doesn't preclude any other deals you might want to see, like the other one we just completed.

A million dollars changed hands . . . there was no solid done for either party. The Bulls could have asked for the equivalent of one million in assets but elected for cash instead. That's not how you build a team.

What is "the equivalent of one million dollars in assets", and what makes you think they didn't ask for it?

IIRC, 2nd rounders routinely go for well over a million. Like 3 mil or something.

We did them a solid by reducing their overall expenses due to luxury tax (as I understand it), and they did us a solid by paying for Brooks who we didn't want but had to pay (effectively by buying 2nd rounders).