RJ Barrett

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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#461 » by Ruzious » Wed Jan 9, 2019 3:30 pm

The-Power wrote:
Showtime23 wrote:The main reason Zion looks more dominant is he is making Youtube dunks every game in a weak D1 college competition. If he was that great, why wasnt he the number 1 prospect in hs?

Zion looks more dominant because he is more dominant. On both ends, period. And he wasn't ranked #1 because people weren't sure how his game translates to college because of the competition he faced. Well, fair to say it translated. Barrett was hyped because he was able to drag inferior talent to great achievements, most notably with his national team. Now, on a dominant team, he still has the same approach which becomes unhealthy in this environment and hints at potential future issues with him, and he has struggled with his efficiency against good college teams.

So his stock naturally fell while Zion's rose. Not sure what's so hard to understand about that. What we've gathered in terms of video footage since the college season started is in many cases more – and certainly more relevant – than what we've had from these guys during their entire high school career. Of course assessments of have changed, it would be foolish to mostly go by high school hype at this point. Sure, some players are given some more time due to their high school performances but this doesn't really apply here. You make it sound as if Barrett was a clearly more hyped or more highly ranked prospect when it was always close between them last year – and Zion has just been much better in college up until now.

And it's really funny that you talk about ‘weak D1 college competition’ because there are a number of issues with your argument. First, Zion destroys Barrett against the very same competition. If it's so weak, why isn't Barrett just as or even more dominant? Second, Duke has played a number of really good college teams and guess what, Zion looks even more dominant than Barrett in comparison and doesn't seem to be bothered by better competition at all. So your point really doesn't hold water. And lastly, how on earth do you talk about weak college competition as a reason to not buy into the Zion-hype and then refer to what they did, or how they were perceived, in high school? You know, a place in which the competition is much, much, much worse than in college.

And last night's game was a good example. RJ had a very nice game, but Zion owned the game. He scored 9 more points while taking 1 less shot. He was a monster on the boards. He had 4 steals and a block. RJ had 2 more assists, but that's part of him having the ball more.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#462 » by clyde21 » Wed Jan 9, 2019 5:25 pm

Don7 wrote:Image

Read on Twitter


dude


he's a guy that other players are not going to like playing with and doesn't have it in him to make other players better, and that's his single biggest weaknesses despite the obvious off the charts talent.

he's be the casual fan's wet dream though in NBA. he'll easily be a 25ppg scorer and some people will love his 'mamba mentality', but I don't think he's a 'winning' player to be honest.

that said, dude is having a pretty great FS season himself. makes me wonder what his numbers would look like if he had "his own team" -- 29ppg / 8rpg / 5apg per 40.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#463 » by Ball4life32 » Wed Jan 9, 2019 5:28 pm

Showtime23 wrote:
Ruzious wrote:
tidho wrote:
That's the nature of the beast. I would take RJ over Zion, and when I list reasons why people act like i'm crucifying Zion. We're talking about top 5 locks here, of course they can play, the only way to start separating them is to pick them apart for what they can't do.

RJ is phenomenal, and he's going to be even better in the NBA (if for no other reason than the 3 second rule). He's got to work on his shot selection, and with that hopefully his efficiency rises, but he's going to be a star. Coach K knows it, there's a reason he keeps RJ on the floor when the other guys sit.

RJ is real good, but his scoring inefficiency - which he can certainly improve on with experience - makes it impossible to label him phenominal, imo. He takes something like 7 shots a game more than Zion, and Zion is so much more efficient. Zion is a legit phenom - he's absolutely amazing. Even with his 6'5ish height, he's an outstanding defender. Sorry to go on about Zion in the RJ thread, but Zion's so far ahead of everyone in this draft, that it's almost unfair to other players to compare them to him.


Let's conclude this RJ vs Zion talk right now. The main reason Zion looks more dominant is he is making Youtube dunks every game in a weak D1 college competition. If he was that great, why wasnt he the number 1 prospect in hs? If I remember correctly, he had the same potential back then and was overhyped for a while until it completely died.
Now, I am not trying to diss Zion and he is currently the favorite to go #1. But teams like Chicago that need a sf could actually pick RJ as number 1 since he fits the mold of a modern two way player natural sf. Also, I really think RJ will be a better NBA player than in college and vice versa for Zion. Still, Zion might end up being the better player but who knows? Even stranger outcomes has happened and it would be foolish to downplay the other prospect just to support your favorite one.

That doesn’t mean much.

Why was Austin Rivers ranked ahead of Anthony Davis in the 2011 class?

Why weren’t James Harden and Blake Griffin top 20 prospects in the 2007 class?

And many many more examples.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#464 » by clyde21 » Wed Jan 9, 2019 5:33 pm

IF Barrett actually played within himself, improved his off-ball skills and general decision making, he'd clearly be the #2 prospect, and this draft might have the best #1 and #2 picks potentially since Oden/Durant.

unfortunately, I don't think this is the way Barrett is built and while he'll post eye popping numbers in the NBA I don't think he'll make his offenses better at the team-level.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#465 » by Don7 » Wed Jan 9, 2019 6:02 pm

clyde21 wrote:
that said, dude is having a pretty great FS season himself. makes me wonder what his numbers would look like if he had "his own team" -- 29ppg / 8rpg / 5apg per 40.


Meh , his usage is 33,6% which is big enough(too much probably for this team).

God forbid he has to adapt to smaller role on next level.

27th percentile out of isolation

28th out of pick-and-rolls,

4-of-16 on runners

48.5 percent at the rim

30.8 precent spotting up


Impressive how efficiency he is considering half court offence.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#466 » by clyde21 » Wed Jan 9, 2019 6:07 pm

Don7 wrote:Meh , his usage is 33,6% which is big enough(too much probably for this team).


which is pretty insane given who he's playing with.

Duke's starting PG, Tre Jones, is at 13.6% usage. :lol:

on a semi related note, Jones averaging 6 assists on his usage rate is incredible.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#467 » by Ayt » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:07 am

Capn'O wrote:He strikes me as more TMac than Kobe. And a smaller one at that.


He strikes me as the kind of guy who goes top 3 but has a very high chance of being a bust. He has looked more like a guy you take in the late lotto that you hope eventually figures it out with a very strong chance that he doesn't.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#468 » by isiah_thomas » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:33 am

God couldn't hit the ocean

I really wonder what's teams who get the second pick will do
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#469 » by clyde21 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:27 am

isiah_thomas wrote:God couldn't hit the ocean

I really wonder what's teams who get the second pick will do


take the guy who's having one of the best freshmen seasons we've seen?

Barrett has his faults, but to act like he's not a good 2nd overall pick is crazy. Which 2nd overall pick the last few years is a better prospect than Barrett? Bagley? No. Ball? No. Ingram? No.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#470 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:19 am

clyde21 wrote:
isiah_thomas wrote:God couldn't hit the ocean

I really wonder what's teams who get the second pick will do


take the guy who's having one of the best freshmen seasons we've seen?

Barrett has his faults, but to act like he's not a good 2nd overall pick is crazy. Which 2nd overall pick the last few years is a better prospect than Barrett? Bagley? No. Ball? No. Ingram? No.


Give me Bagley over RJ and day of the week.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#471 » by Stillwater » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:29 am

RJ and Romeo both looked pedestrian in today's games ,if they are still top 5 locks ...it's based on projections long term.
Both can score and will be decent pros but nothing screams likely all star without both significantly improving their outside shots.
RJ is better defender though so I still have him ahead of Langford.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#472 » by 916fan » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:56 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
isiah_thomas wrote:God couldn't hit the ocean

I really wonder what's teams who get the second pick will do


take the guy who's having one of the best freshmen seasons we've seen?

Barrett has his faults, but to act like he's not a good 2nd overall pick is crazy. Which 2nd overall pick the last few years is a better prospect than Barrett? Bagley? No. Ball? No. Ingram? No.


Give me Bagley over RJ and day of the week.

As a Kings fan I don't know about that.. also just came back from watching an underwhelming Bagley vs. Portland (stats don't tell the whole story). In the NBA, he's struggled big time with his shot. He can't score 15ft away from the rim. Don't get fooled by his 33% 3pt shot on 1attempt/game. He misses wide right/left A LOT. Shooting mechanics are not good at the moment. He's heavily reliant on his left hand and can only go right. His touch around the rim is also lacking.

The Kings are being patient with him. They're giving him a lot of lee-way to develop. I could go more in depth about his struggles...but point is, he's a pretty big project. I think he's our 2nd most talented player behind Fox, but I don't ever see him becoming a #1 scorer. He just doesn't have the scoring instinct as he has a loooooong way to go on that end. Compare that to RJ who I thin is pretty much plug and play with potential to be a #1 scorer.

I would easily take RJ #2 over Bagley.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#473 » by Duke4life831 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:57 am

916fan wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
take the guy who's having one of the best freshmen seasons we've seen?

Barrett has his faults, but to act like he's not a good 2nd overall pick is crazy. Which 2nd overall pick the last few years is a better prospect than Barrett? Bagley? No. Ball? No. Ingram? No.


Give me Bagley over RJ and day of the week.

As a Kings fan I don't know about that.. also just came back from watching an underwhelming Bagley vs. Portland (stats don't tell the whole story). In the NBA, he's struggled big time with his shot. He can't score 15ft away from the rim. Don't get fooled by his 33% 3pt shot on 1attempt/game. He misses wide right/left A LOT. Shooting mechanics are not good at the moment. He's heavily reliant on his left hand and can only go right. His touch around the rim is also lacking.

The Kings are being patient with him. They're giving him a lot of lee-way to develop. I could go more in depth about his struggles...but point is, he's a pretty big project. I think he's our 2nd most talented player behind Fox, but I don't ever see him becoming a #1 scorer. He just doesn't have the scoring instinct as he has a loooooong way to go on that end. Compare that to RJ who I thin is pretty much plug and play with potential to be a #1 scorer.

I would easily take RJ #2 over Bagley.


I've seen every Bagley's game so far with the Kings. I haven't seen anything yet that makes me question him over RJ. I have had many concerns with RJ for over a year, I still do now.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#474 » by atlantabbq99 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:03 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
nybluemeadow wrote:The more I watch R.J. Barrett, the more that Michael Kidd-Gilchrist comes to mind, hustle, above average athlete but whose shooting form is a big problem. His shoulders are never square and he always puts the ball infront of his face just before he releases .

Image


RJ is miles ahead of MKG as a scorer and MKG is miles ahead of RJ as a defender. Not saying RJ is a bad defender, MKG was just a freak defender at this age.

Also MKG was the better athlete. That man was a terror in the open court in college.



baca wrote:
nybluemeadow wrote:
baca wrote:
Basketball without border shirt? That is about one and half years ago photo. Even before he got FIBA U19 champion.

Barrett worked with Drew Hanlen with his stroke right now. Probably one of the most famous trainer in NBA...


You just have to watch the last three canada games to see his shot is broken or still broken. the duke canada games shows that his form has not improved the last 2-3 years. His free throw shooting in the duke preseason shows off why his form and approach is so bad. But yes, i agree with you, he will need a specialized shooting coach to fix his broken shot. Barrett will have to unlearn alot of bad things and rebuild everything. Some guys have just one or two things to fix, but Barrett has to fix his shoulders, elbows, hands, grip, and release and basically have to relearn everything before his shot is fixed.



Here is Stepien's Cole Zwicker's article on RJ Barrett's analysis. https://www.thestepien.com/2018/08/02/early-2019-draft-thoughts-r-j-barrett/

There are tons of shooting stroke analysis and photos in this article.And most of them are from Nike hoop summit and FIBA U19 game, which is more recently pictures than you post.

And his conclusion is his shooting stroke has some problem, but improving on a streak and not bad or not fixable. He has a good pull jumper stroke and feet set shooting is OK. You are welcome to give your persuasive professional point on newest picture and show us how his stroke has so many problems.


Some of the posters who said before the season started, that Barrett's shot is broken, hit the nail on the head and got it exactly right. Barrett is barely worth a low lottery pick at this point.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#475 » by clyde21 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:14 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
isiah_thomas wrote:God couldn't hit the ocean

I really wonder what's teams who get the second pick will do


take the guy who's having one of the best freshmen seasons we've seen?

Barrett has his faults, but to act like he's not a good 2nd overall pick is crazy. Which 2nd overall pick the last few years is a better prospect than Barrett? Bagley? No. Ball? No. Ingram? No.


Give me Bagley over RJ and day of the week.


i completely disagree on that. Bagley wasn't even the best big prospect on Duke last year.
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Should RJ Barrett not enter the draft and stay in school? 

Post#476 » by atlantabbq99 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 7:59 am

He is the weakest of the three Duke freshmen. He has the most broken elements in his game, and has the most to fix.

Should Barrett forgo the draft and stay in school for 3 more years?

He is working his way out of the top ten in this year's draft.

Could he benefit fixing his game with Coach K and put extra time in school like Battier and Boozer did?
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Re: Should RJ Barrett not enter the draft and stay in school? 

Post#477 » by clyde21 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:09 am

what the heck are u talking about dude is a top 3 lock.
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Re: Should RJ Barrett not enter the draft and stay in school? 

Post#478 » by Funcrusher » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:16 am

Image
gh123 wrote:Zion lucky if he gets 18 ppg on decent efficiency. Midget big man is a no-career in NBA. Chuck being the only wonder. Zion is the next Tractor Trailer at best.
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#479 » by The-Power » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:19 am

Stillwater wrote:RJ is better defender though so I still have him ahead of Langford.

Based on what? Athleticism? Reputation?
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Re: RJ Barrett 

Post#480 » by GimmeDat » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:16 am

Langford definitely the superior defender based on what we've seen so far.

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