2018-2019 OKC Thunder Regular Season Pt 1: A Renewed Hope

[Kizz Fastfists]

The roster is about to experience a shakeup. Schroder is getting traded.

Is OKC including PG to offset the negative value of Schroder? Maybe Schroder, Abrines, Diallo and Ferguson for Parsons? Memphis might go for that. I'm not sure Abrines, Diallo and Ferguson is enough to make up the difference in Schroder's significantly worse value than Parsons. To be clear Parsons is a very negative contract, but his value isn't as negative as Schroder's because if healthy Parsons can actually help you win and his contract is shorter with less total money.

OKC is pretty much stuck with Schroder. No rebuilding team should want his contract and no contending team should want him. In two years, when his contract is expiring, OKC might be able to move him by just attaching their 2024 1st round pick. Although by that time their lottery protected picks will have no real value since everyone will know they are a lottery team in rebuilding mode.

[Kizz Fastfists]

apt analogy. westbrook might be characterized as a criminal in the later years of his current deal if this continues.

I can't blame Russ for his contract any more than I could blame Kobe for his last contract. If the team is stupid enough to give a player that is about to fall off that type of contract then the team is responsible for their stupidity. I can't blame the player for signing it. If your boss offered you a guarantee of an annual 5% raise through age 75 knowing that your work would decline drastically and you might not even be capable of doing it at all by that point do I blame you for accepting the stupid offer or your boss for giving it to you?

[getrichordie]

You mean to tell me an off-ball 2-guard with more size on the wing than Schroder is better for the offense? Shocker. Tell me something I don’t know. What do you expect when the 6’1 Schroder is playing out of position?


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are you acknowledging that dennis schroder is a liability next to westbrook? that's a start. you had been an advocate for playing 'our five best players' in the past. that included schroder.

i'll consider this progress.

As much as Westbrook is a liability next to Schroder in terms of fit. Just because I do not acknowledge or feed into the Schroder-takes here, doesn’t mean I don’t acknowledge what is happening.


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[getrichordie]

Schröder must be in the worst slump in league history:

The roster is about to experience a shakeup. Schroder is getting traded.


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give us more details about the trade. I'm curious!

This feels like I bait. I hope I’m wrong.

But to entertain your question, of course I do not know the specifics, but I can see a few places Schroder could land...

1. Sacramento
2. Phoenix
3. Dallas
4. Washington

... it just depends on what people are willing to give up for him. I think Washington and Dallas make the most sense, but we will see...


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[Kizz Fastfists]

This feels like I bait. I hope I’m wrong.

But to entertain your question, of course I do not know the specifics, but I can see a few places Schroder could land...

1. Sacramento
2. Phoenix
3. Dallas
4. Washington

... it just depends on what people are willing to give up for him. I think Washington and Dallas make the most sense, but we will see...

1. Sacramento has a better PG in Fox with a much higher upside. They aren't trading for Schroder unless OKC is giving up a 1st for the salary dump.

2. If Phoenix wanted Schroder they would have gotten him from Atlanta. You can also make a case for Melton being their PG of the future with a higher upside than Schroder.

3. Dallas won't trade for a mediocre PG. They have a better one in DSJ that they are supposedly unhappy with because he needs the ball too much. Schroder needs the ball more than DSJ. DSJ is solid off the ball and I really don't think Dallas should move him, but if they do it will be in a deal for a much better player than Schroder.

4. Washington is tied up with Wall at PG for a long time. They aren't taking on a backup PG like Schroder with his contract when they have a very good fit in Satoransky and if they could move Wall he would be their PG and they would look for a solid backup. Washington's main issue with Wall and Beal is that they both need the ball in their hands and Beal is significantly better than Wall at this point so Wall is actually hurting their production and win totals.

I can't think of a single team that Schroder is a good fit for. What team wants a PG that can't shoot, won't consistently try to defend, is undersized and won't accept the type of role they could fit? Schroder is homeless man's Isaiah Thomas.

[Dadouv47]

The roster is about to experience a shakeup. Schroder is getting traded.


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give us more details about the trade. I'm curious!

This feels like I bait. I hope I’m wrong.

But to entertain your question, of course I do not know the specifics, but I can see a few places Schroder could land...

1. Sacramento
2. Phoenix
3. Dallas
4. Washington

... it just depends on what people are willing to give up for him. I think Washington and Dallas make the most sense, but we will see...


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You are wrong. The main question is : what are we willing to give up to get rid of him?

[getrichordie]

This feels like I bait. I hope I’m wrong.

But to entertain your question, of course I do not know the specifics, but I can see a few places Schroder could land...

1. Sacramento
2. Phoenix
3. Dallas
4. Washington

... it just depends on what people are willing to give up for him. I think Washington and Dallas make the most sense, but we will see...

1. Sacramento has a better PG in Fox with a much higher upside. They aren't trading for Schroder unless OKC is giving up a 1st for the salary dump.

2. If Phoenix wanted Schroder they would have gotten him from Atlanta. You can also make a case for Melton being their PG of the future with a higher upside than Schroder.

3. Dallas won't trade for a mediocre PG. They have a better one in DSJ that they are supposedly unhappy with because he needs the ball too much. Schroder needs the ball more than DSJ. DSJ is solid off the ball and I really don't think Dallas should move him, but if they do it will be in a deal for a much better player than Schroder.

4. Washington is tied up with Wall at PG for a long time. They aren't taking on a backup PG like Schroder with his contract when they have a very good fit in Satoransky and if they could move Wall he would be their PG and they would look for a solid backup. Washington's main issue with Wall and Beal is that they both need the ball in their hands and Beal is significantly better than Wall at this point so Wall is actually hurting their production and win totals.

I can't think of a single team that Schroder is a good fit for. What team wants a PG that can't shoot, won't consistently try to defend, is undersized and won't accept the type of role they could fit? Schroder is homeless man's Isaiah Thomas.

I find it extremely hard to understand how this board can underrate Schroder so badly.

In regards to your claim that Schroder won’t accept his role... that’s simply false. Where’s the evidence for this? He has been a great teammate here in OKC. He has been super patient, in my opinion.

You can’t go trade for a dog and ask him to be a cat. That would be extremely dumb. That’s why Melo didn’t work out. Presti traded for an on-ball player to play an off-ball role. So is it the dog’s fault that he’s not a cat?


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[Kizz Fastfists]

You can’t go trade for a dog and ask him to be a cat. That would be extremely dumb. That’s why Melo didn’t work out. Presti traded for an on-ball player to play an off-ball role. So is it the dog’s fault that he’s not a cat?

Schroder is the same. That is why, like Melo, he doesn't fit anywhere. Schroder needs the ball, but is terribly inefficient with it. Schroder only worked when Russ was out because he was able to be a decent PG and get carried by Adams and PG. Presti blew it when he traded for Melo. His only way to salvage part of it was to take the same level of player on a longer contract, but less annual salary. If anyone would have offered Atlanta a decent asset for Schroder they would have gotten him. Altanta wanted to get rid of him so bad they traded him just to eat Melo's salary for a pair of future second round picks. You can say it is a first, but no one expects OKC to not be a lottery team by the time that lottery protected first conveys as Russ won't be all-star anymore and PG will likely be gone.

No one will trade for Schroder because they know what he is unless it is another situation where Presti gives up picks and takes a different bad contract. Last year some people were stupid enough to think they were still getting Melo from 5 years ago. Some people knew Melo was a mistake and OKC should have facilitated for a better fitting player that would have accepted their role and tanked Houston.

[getrichordie]

You can’t go trade for a dog and ask him to be a cat. That would be extremely dumb. That’s why Melo didn’t work out. Presti traded for an on-ball player to play an off-ball role. So is it the dog’s fault that he’s not a cat?

Schroder is the same. That is why, like Melo, he doesn't fit anywhere. Schroder needs the ball, but is terribly inefficient with it. Schroder only worked when Russ was out because he was able to be a decent PG and get carried by Adams and PG. Presti blew it when he traded for Melo. His only way to salvage part of it was to take the same level of player on a longer contract, but less annual salary. If anyone would have offered Atlanta a decent asset for Schroder they would have gotten him. Altanta wanted to get rid of him so bad they traded him just to eat Melo's salary for a pair of future second round picks. You can say it is a first, but no one expects OKC to not be a lottery team by the time that lottery protected first conveys as Russ won't be all-star anymore and PG will likely be gone.

No one will trade for Schroder because they know what he is unless it is another situation where Presti gives up picks and takes a different bad contract. Last year some people were stupid enough to think they were still getting Melo from 5 years ago. Some people knew Melo was a mistake and OKC should have facilitated for a better fitting player that would have accepted their role and tanked Houston.

The NBA is just like in any other business. Some organizations are ahead of the curve and some are behind the curve.

Atlanta decided that Schroder wasn’t their point-guard for the future. They were concerned about his off-court issues plus Schroder wasn’t content with playing with a losing team... Atlanta had virtually zero leverage when trading Schroder and OKC had a need to find a 3rd ball-handler/scorer (better than Felton) to run the bench... and a need to shave the tax bill. The move benefited both teams in terms of what they wanted to accomplish.

No one is saying Schroder is great. He obviously has holes in his game. But trades are about leverage and their are teams that would value Schroder this year more than Atlanta valued him when they traded him.

To put it simply, Schroder’s trade value is on the rise because teams need point guards and smart teams understand that the Schroder fiasco in Atlanta isn’t a death sentence.

Schroder is a fiery, competitive dude who just wants a more significant role in the NBA instead of being the best player on a tanking Hawks team or the point-guard who often watches Westbrook jack up 5 threes in a game.

Again... is Schroder perfect? No... He’s a young, smart player who’s game doesn’t fit ideally into a lot of teams future plans, but he does fit some teams better than others. He certainly doesn’t seem to fit next to Westbrook and he’s not a OKC-Harden or Lou Williams. He has a different game. He does other things extremely well that are sought after — ball-handling, transition reads, hitting catch and shoot 3s, paint-scoring.

Schroder’s best attribute is his ability to operate in small spaces and manipulate the defense with his downhill attack. Is it going to work in a lineup with poor spacing? No. Is it more viable in a lineup with better spacing? Yes. This is evidenced by his last playoff performance... he didn’t fall off a cliff. His team and his situation did.


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[Pillendreher]

The NBA is just like in any other business. Some organizations are ahead of the curve and some are behind the curve.

Atlanta decided that Schroder wasn’t their point-guard for the future. They were concerned about his off-court issues plus Schroder wasn’t content with playing with a losing team... Atlanta had virtually zero leverage when trading Schroder and OKC had a need to find a 3rd ball-handler/scorer (better than Felton) to run the bench... and a need to shave the tax bill. The move benefited both teams in terms of what they wanted to accomplish.

No one is saying Schroder is great. He obviously has holes in his game. But trades are about leverage and their are teams that would value Schroder this year more than Atlanta valued him when they traded him.

To put it simply, Schroder’s trade value is on the rise because teams need point guards and smart teams understand that the Schroder fiasco in Atlanta isn’t a death sentence.

Schroder is a fiery, competitive dude who just wants a more significant role in the NBA instead of being the best player on a tanking Hawks team or the point-guard who often watches Westbrook jack up 5 threes in a game.

Again... is Schroder perfect? No... He’s a young, smart player who’s game doesn’t fit ideally into a lot of teams future plans, but he does fit some teams better than others. He certainly doesn’t seem to fit next to Westbrook and he’s not a OKC-Harden or Lou Williams. He has a different game. He does other things extremely well that are sought after — ball-handling, transition reads, hitting catch and shoot 3s, paint-scoring.

Schroder’s best attribute is his ability to operate in small spaces and manipulate the defense with his downhill attack. Is it going to work in a lineup with poor spacing? No. Is it more viable in a lineup with better spacing? Yes. This is evidenced by his last playoff performance... he didn’t fall off a cliff. His team and his situation did.


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Durant has his burner accounts. Schröder apparently does as well.

[spearsy23]

You can’t go trade for a dog and ask him to be a cat. That would be extremely dumb. That’s why Melo didn’t work out. Presti traded for an on-ball player to play an off-ball role. So is it the dog’s fault that he’s not a cat?

Schroder is the same. That is why, like Melo, he doesn't fit anywhere. Schroder needs the ball, but is terribly inefficient with it. Schroder only worked when Russ was out because he was able to be a decent PG and get carried by Adams and PG. Presti blew it when he traded for Melo. His only way to salvage part of it was to take the same level of player on a longer contract, but less annual salary. If anyone would have offered Atlanta a decent asset for Schroder they would have gotten him. Altanta wanted to get rid of him so bad they traded him just to eat Melo's salary for a pair of future second round picks. You can say it is a first, but no one expects OKC to not be a lottery team by the time that lottery protected first conveys as Russ won't be all-star anymore and PG will likely be gone.

No one will trade for Schroder because they know what he is unless it is another situation where Presti gives up picks and takes a different bad contract. Last year some people were stupid enough to think they were still getting Melo from 5 years ago. Some people knew Melo was a mistake and OKC should have facilitated for a better fitting player that would have accepted their role and tanked Houston.

The NBA is just like in any other business. Some organizations are ahead of the curve and some are behind the curve.

Atlanta decided that Schroder wasn’t their point-guard for the future. They were concerned about his off-court issues plus Schroder wasn’t content with playing with a losing team... Atlanta had virtually zero leverage when trading Schroder and OKC had a need to find a 3rd ball-handler/scorer (better than Felton) to run the bench... and a need to shave the tax bill. The move benefited both teams in terms of what they wanted to accomplish.

No one is saying Schroder is great. He obviously has holes in his game. But trades are about leverage and their are teams that would value Schroder this year more than Atlanta valued him when they traded him.

To put it simply, Schroder’s trade value is on the rise because teams need point guards and smart teams understand that the Schroder fiasco in Atlanta isn’t a death sentence.

Schroder is a fiery, competitive dude who just wants a more significant role in the NBA instead of being the best player on a tanking Hawks team or the point-guard who often watches Westbrook jack up 5 threes in a game.

Again... is Schroder perfect? No... He’s a young, smart player who’s game doesn’t fit ideally into a lot of teams future plans, but he does fit some teams better than others. He certainly doesn’t seem to fit next to Westbrook and he’s not a OKC-Harden or Lou Williams. He has a different game. He does other things extremely well that are sought after — ball-handling, transition reads, hitting catch and shoot 3s, paint-scoring.

Schroder’s best attribute is his ability to operate in small spaces and manipulate the defense with his downhill attack. Is it going to work in a lineup with poor spacing? No. Is it more viable in a lineup with better spacing? Yes. This is evidenced by his last playoff performance... he didn’t fall off a cliff. His team and his situation did.


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This is a really long winded way to say that he's a guy who needs the ball in his hands at all times to have any utility but isn't good enough for that to be a viable option.

[spearsy23]

I was probably the biggest Dion opposition on this board during his time here, and I'd gladly take him back in exchange for Schroeder.

[Pillendreher]

There has been plenty of discussion about role, fit, etc., but so far, I've haven't found a single lineup/pairing that has a somewhat efficient Schröder.

Schröder as a starter in the absence of Westbrook (aka Schröder running the 1st unit): 48.3 TS% on 27 USG%
Schröder next to Westbrook-George-Adams (aka surrounded by the best players we have): 48.7 TS% on 14 USG%
Schröder with Noel on the floor and Westbrook and George both on the bench (aka Schröder running the 2nd unit): 49.4 TS% on 41 USG%

Did I miss anything? At some point we're running out of scenarios that might point him in a better light.

[spearsy23]

There has been plenty of discussion about role, fit, etc., but so far, I've haven't found a single lineup/pairing that has a somewhat efficient Schröder.

Schröder as a starter in the absence of Westbrook (aka Schröder running the 1st unit): 48.3 TS% on 27 USG%
Schröder next to Westbrook-George-Adams (aka surrounded by the best players we have): 48.7 TS% on 14 USG%
Schröder with Noel on the floor and Westbrook and George both on the bench (aka Schröder running the 2nd unit): 49.4 TS% on 41 USG%

Did I miss anything? At some point we're running out of scenarios that might point him in a better light.

Schroder/PG no Russ/adams

[Pillendreher]

There has been plenty of discussion about role, fit, etc., but so far, I've haven't found a single lineup/pairing that has a somewhat efficient Schröder.

Schröder as a starter in the absence of Westbrook (aka Schröder running the 1st unit): 48.3 TS% on 27 USG%
Schröder next to Westbrook-George-Adams (aka surrounded by the best players we have): 48.7 TS% on 14 USG%
Schröder with Noel on the floor and Westbrook and George both on the bench (aka Schröder running the 2nd unit): 49.4 TS% on 41 USG%

Did I miss anything? At some point we're running out of scenarios that might point him in a better light.

Schroder/PG no Russ/adams

50.0 TS%

[Kizz Fastfists]

Some people are trying way to hard to convince themselves that Schroder is anything more than a Kanter or Melo. A guy that can work in a very limited role off the bench, but if he is one of your top 5 MPG guys your team is isn't anywhere near a contender.

[spearsy23]

Some people are trying way to hard to convince themselves that Schroder is anything more than a Kanter or Melo. A guy that can work in a very limited role off the bench, but if he is one of your top 5 MPG guys your team is isn't anywhere near a contender.

I wouldn't say very limited. He can be a sixth man in the right circumstances.

[slick_watts]

The NBA is just like in any other business. Some organizations are ahead of the curve and some are behind the curve.

what curve? what does this mean? what does this have to do with schroder's season so far and what he was traded for?

Atlanta decided that Schroder wasn’t their point-guard for the future. They were concerned about his off-court issues plus Schroder wasn’t content with playing with a losing team... Atlanta had virtually zero leverage when trading Schroder and OKC had a need to find a 3rd ball-handler/scorer (better than Felton) to run the bench... and a need to shave the tax bill. The move benefited both teams in terms of what they wanted to accomplish.

the hawks wanted dennis schroder off their team so badly that they paid over 60% of his remaining salary in order to do so. schroder not being content playing for a losing team had nothing to do with anything. atlanta did not want him, and were willing to pay a king's ransom to get rid of him.

you are skirting around the details of the trade.

No one is saying Schroder is great. He obviously has holes in his game. But trades are about leverage and their are teams that would value Schroder this year more than Atlanta valued him when they traded him.

says who?

To put it simply, Schroder’s trade value is on the rise because teams need point guards and smart teams understand that the Schroder fiasco in Atlanta isn’t a death sentence.

your whole post here is one big equivocation. smart teams understand that about schroder? where were those smart teams five months ago when they could have had him for free? what has changed in the last 5 months? you need to be more specific. do you have any case examples?

Schroder is a fiery, competitive dude who just wants a more significant role in the NBA instead of being the best player on a tanking Hawks team or the point-guard who often watches Westbrook jack up 5 threes in a game

how do you know he wants a more significant role? how do you know what he wants in the first place? he seems pretty content in okc, judging by his commentary since the trade. does he want to start? what team is going to trade for him to start? why didn't they do that 5 months ago?

the problem here is that you are making up these scenarios that conditions that must have all materialized sometime between the summer and now. can you tell me why none of this was the case when atlanta was giving him away for free? what changed?

Again... is Schroder perfect? No... He’s a young, smart player who’s game doesn’t fit ideally into a lot of teams future plans, but he does fit some teams better than others. He certainly doesn’t seem to fit next to Westbrook and he’s not a OKC-Harden or Lou Williams. He has a different game. He does other things extremely well that are sought after — ball-handling, transition reads, hitting catch and shoot 3s, paint-scoring.

i'm going to be honest. that sounds like a skill set that a g-league guard might have. those are his strengths? and two of them aren't even really true. he's not a good catch and shoot 3 point shooter, and he's not high percentage in the paint for a guard. so ball-handling and making reads in transition. that's what you've got?

Schroder’s best attribute is his ability to operate in small spaces and manipulate the defense with his downhill attack. Is it going to work in a lineup with poor spacing? No. Is it more viable in a lineup with better spacing? Yes. This is evidenced by his last playoff performance... he didn’t fall off a cliff. His team and his situation did.

i'm sorry but these conditions are applicable to any player not just schroder. all offensive skills are more viable in a lineup with better spacing. this isn't an excuse for how badly schroder has performed.

[SecondTake]

I predict a monster game from Schroder tonight.

23/5/5 on 55%

[Kizz Fastfists]

I predict a monster game from Schroder tonight.

23/5/5 on 55%

You realize he hasn't done that all year, right? A monster game for Schroder would be 20/4/4 on 45% shooting. He has managed to do that twice this year.