2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

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Who do you think are the best two rookies?

Ayton
147
18%
Bagley
12
1%
Bamba
6
1%
Carter
15
2%
Doncic
424
51%
Gilgeous-Alexander
18
2%
Jackson
159
19%
Knox
18
2%
Sexton
6
1%
Young
20
2%
 
Total votes: 825

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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1361 » by TheBonzaiEffect » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:35 am

leolozon wrote:
TheBonzaiEffect wrote:
leolozon wrote:
I could have just said "great game", but that's a less interesting comment than the one that I did. Doncic is becoming my favorite player, but I'm not blind. He has things to work on. It's okay to be critical of people that are great in their fields, you don't judge them by the same standards.


Yes, but your nitpick is off base. The only nitpick here is his FT shooting. There's nothing wrong with his shot selection. He takes and makes difficult shots. That's a big part of his game. If he took that last shot in a one possession game, that's one thing. But it didn't matter here, and the poster above explained why he took it.


Well I don't think it's off base and I explained why in another post… so.. I guess I'll just put "Clear #1 rookie so far". Thats' what this thread needed.

As for your comment, "he takes difficult shots…" doesn't go with "there's nothing wrong with his shot selection". A difficult shot is by definition a shot that has a lower probability of going in. Every player is shooting better on easy shots than difficult shots. I've heard it often about Kobe : "He's a good bad shot taker." Well he had a bad FG% on clutch shots.


Except lots of time you have no choice but to take a difficult shot. I.E. when the defense tightens up, shot clock is winding down, etc. Luka is a walking miracle maker.



(second shot)

These are difficult shots that he had to take, and make. The average player can't make those shots. Making difficult shots is a highly important skill.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1362 » by Mr B » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:35 am

MemphisX wrote:When people with Dallas logos are saying the solution is to fire Rick Carlisle, I know they are not Maverick fans. Just Luka fans. I remember this on ClutchCity when Yao was around. Just a bunch of player fans who do not care about the team or even the other players on the team. Just Maximize their BAE and let the other chips fall where they may.


I agree with this. Those that have actually watched Carlisle teams and know his history know that he’s the best thing that could have happen to Luka. He’s the best possible coach for Luka.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1363 » by ChaosHamster » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:34 am

How all-rookie teams are looking atm?
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1364 » by Bob8 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:44 am

Mr B wrote:
MemphisX wrote:When people with Dallas logos are saying the solution is to fire Rick Carlisle, I know they are not Maverick fans. Just Luka fans. I remember this on ClutchCity when Yao was around. Just a bunch of player fans who do not care about the team or even the other players on the team. Just Maximize their BAE and let the other chips fall where they may.


I agree with this. Those that have actually watched Carlisle teams and know his history know that he’s the best thing that could have happen to Luka. He’s the best possible coach for Luka.


and Dallas is the best team for Luka for his rookie season. but now is on GM and RC to build the team around Luka. not the easiest task knowing how little of value outside DSJ is there. they need another top50 player, rim protector and some 3&D wings.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1365 » by mcmurphy » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:47 am

Mr B wrote:
MemphisX wrote:When people with Dallas logos are saying the solution is to fire Rick Carlisle, I know they are not Maverick fans. Just Luka fans. I remember this on ClutchCity when Yao was around. Just a bunch of player fans who do not care about the team or even the other players on the team. Just Maximize their BAE and let the other chips fall where they may.


I agree with this. Those that have actually watched Carlisle teams and know his history know that he’s the best thing that could have happen to Luka. He’s the best possible coach for Luka.


I agree.
maybe only SA with Pop would be a better organisation and coach for Luka... I do not want to think Luka in any East bottom team
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1366 » by mcmurphy » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:49 am

Bob8 wrote:
Mr B wrote:
MemphisX wrote:When people with Dallas logos are saying the solution is to fire Rick Carlisle, I know they are not Maverick fans. Just Luka fans. I remember this on ClutchCity when Yao was around. Just a bunch of player fans who do not care about the team or even the other players on the team. Just Maximize their BAE and let the other chips fall where they may.


I agree with this. Those that have actually watched Carlisle teams and know his history know that he’s the best thing that could have happen to Luka. He’s the best possible coach for Luka.


and Dallas is the best team for Luka for his rookie season. but now is on GM and RC to build the team around Luka. not the easiest task knowing how little of value outside DSJ is there. they need another top50 player, rim protector and some 3&D wings.


Rome was not built in a day.

What that seems obvious to me is that DSJ/Matthews/Barnes can not start.

To me the starting lineup should be:

- Luka
- DSJ or Matthews
- Barnes
- Kleber
- DJ

the combination of DSJ/Matthews/Barnes is the worst 3-lineup with -6.8 NetRtg

instead the combination of Luka/Kleber/DJ is the best 3-lineup with +10.7 NetRtg (3-lineup with at least 2 starters)

so my perplexity (from the great esteem I have of) is why RC don't put stably Maxi Kleber as starting PF :roll:
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1367 » by Young gun 6 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:06 am

ChaosHamster wrote:How all-rookie teams are looking atm?


1st:
Young
SGA
Doncic
JJJ
Ayton
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1368 » by mcmurphy » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:17 am

Young gun 6 wrote:
ChaosHamster wrote:How all-rookie teams are looking atm?


1st:
Young
SGA
Doncic
JJJ
Ayton


Not a bad team... not at all
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1369 » by Bob8 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:28 am

mcmurphy wrote:
Young gun 6 wrote:
ChaosHamster wrote:How all-rookie teams are looking atm?


1st:
Young
SGA
Doncic
JJJ
Ayton


Not a bad team... not at all


In offense, but disastrous in D.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1370 » by gh123 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:47 am

Bob8 wrote:
mcmurphy wrote:
Young gun 6 wrote:
1st:
Young
SGA
Doncic
JJJ
Ayton


Not a bad team... not at all


In offense, but disastrous in D.


No. Ayton has been positive defensively since December, so has Luka. JJJ is the best defender among rookies (shout out to Mitch, but he's not getting enough mpg and injured now) and SGA, I believe, is like Luka at least average. Young is a dead weight on D. I'd still pick Sexton tbh.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1371 » by Riko » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:53 am

gh123 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
mcmurphy wrote:
Not a bad team... not at all


In offense, but disastrous in D.


No. Ayton has been positive defensively since December, so has Luka. JJJ is the best defender among rookies (shout out to Mitch, but he's not getting enough mpg and injured now) and SGA, I believe, is like Luka at least average. Young is a dead weight on D. I'd still pick Sexton tbh.


I wuold pick Knox. He has size and shooting to be perfect next to doncic
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1372 » by gh123 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:55 am

Riko wrote:
gh123 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
In offense, but disastrous in D.


No. Ayton has been positive defensively since December, so has Luka. JJJ is the best defender among rookies (shout out to Mitch, but he's not getting enough mpg and injured now) and SGA, I believe, is like Luka at least average. Young is a dead weight on D. I'd still pick Sexton tbh.


I wuold pick Knox. He has size and shooting to be perfect next to doncic


In what context? I thought we are picking All Rookie team.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1373 » by Golden Knight » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:03 am

Mr B wrote:
MemphisX wrote:When people with Dallas logos are saying the solution is to fire Rick Carlisle, I know they are not Maverick fans. Just Luka fans. I remember this on ClutchCity when Yao was around. Just a bunch of player fans who do not care about the team or even the other players on the team. Just Maximize their BAE and let the other chips fall where they may.


I agree with this. Those that have actually watched Carlisle teams and know his history know that he’s the best thing that could have happen to Luka. He’s the best possible coach for Luka.

Absolutely.

Under most coaches, Barnes and Matthews would most likely be running the show or would not be able to control the locker room if Luka was given the reins.

Or one of the worst scenarios - let Luka have absolute freedom to do what he wants that he'll eventually develop bad habits and attitude this early in his career.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1374 » by Riko » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:09 am

gh123 wrote:
Riko wrote:
gh123 wrote:
No. Ayton has been positive defensively since December, so has Luka. JJJ is the best defender among rookies (shout out to Mitch, but he's not getting enough mpg and injured now) and SGA, I believe, is like Luka at least average. Young is a dead weight on D. I'd still pick Sexton tbh.


I wuold pick Knox. He has size and shooting to be perfect next to doncic


In what context? I thought we are picking All Rookie team.


Yes, in that. I added the second part just for "fun".

SGA
Doncic
Knox
JJJ
Ayton

And, just for fun, is a scary looking team in 3 years
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1375 » by Bob8 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:13 am

gh123 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
mcmurphy wrote:
Not a bad team... not at all


In offense, but disastrous in D.


No. Ayton has been positive defensively since December, so has Luka. JJJ is the best defender among rookies (shout out to Mitch, but he's not getting enough mpg and injured now) and SGA, I believe, is like Luka at least average. Young is a dead weight on D. I'd still pick Sexton tbh.


We have to be realistic here. Ayton is 6th from behind among Cs in DRPM, Luka 56th among Sfs, SGA 39th among Pgs and Trae dead last in DRPM. Only in positive territory is JJJ. This team would have been destroyed. Trae and Luka cannot play together and if they by some accident play together, they for sure need rim protector and not Ayton.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1376 » by Young gun 6 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:34 am

Bob8 wrote:
gh123 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
In offense, but disastrous in D.


No. Ayton has been positive defensively since December, so has Luka. JJJ is the best defender among rookies (shout out to Mitch, but he's not getting enough mpg and injured now) and SGA, I believe, is like Luka at least average. Young is a dead weight on D. I'd still pick Sexton tbh.


We have to be realistic here. Ayton is 6th from behind among Cs in DRPM, Luka 56th among Sfs, SGA 39th among Pgs and Trae dead last in DRPM. Only in positive territory is JJJ. This team would have been destroyed. Trae and Luka cannot play together and if they by some accident play together, they for sure need rim protector and not Ayton.


There are barely any defensive stats out there that you can even use to quantify a player’s defense. Eye test is 90% of whether a player is a good defender or not.

Unless you think DeAndre Jordan leading the entire league in DRPM is the best defender in the league and Klay Thompson is 84th out of 95SG’s in DRPM.

Outside of the eye test of watching defense there is pretty much no way to quantify if a player is a good or bad defender as the stats have been showed to be extensively flawed.

NBA TPA has most of the contending rookies as positive defenders outside of Sexton, Young and Knox who have been rated as horrific.

Read on Twitter
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1377 » by gh123 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:35 am

Bob8 wrote:
gh123 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
In offense, but disastrous in D.


No. Ayton has been positive defensively since December, so has Luka. JJJ is the best defender among rookies (shout out to Mitch, but he's not getting enough mpg and injured now) and SGA, I believe, is like Luka at least average. Young is a dead weight on D. I'd still pick Sexton tbh.


We have to be realistic here. Ayton is 6th from behind among Cs in DRPM, Luka 56th among Sfs, SGA 39th among Pgs and Trae dead last in DRPM. Only in positive territory is JJJ. This team would have been destroyed. Trae and Luka cannot play together and if they by some accident play together, they for sure need rim protector and not Ayton.


I don't trust that stat since it puts Daj as #1. Most of defensive stats are crap. I think blocks and steals actually are better lol.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1378 » by gh123 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:37 am

Young gun 6 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
gh123 wrote:
No. Ayton has been positive defensively since December, so has Luka. JJJ is the best defender among rookies (shout out to Mitch, but he's not getting enough mpg and injured now) and SGA, I believe, is like Luka at least average. Young is a dead weight on D. I'd still pick Sexton tbh.


We have to be realistic here. Ayton is 6th from behind among Cs in DRPM, Luka 56th among Sfs, SGA 39th among Pgs and Trae dead last in DRPM. Only in positive territory is JJJ. This team would have been destroyed. Trae and Luka cannot play together and if they by some accident play together, they for sure need rim protector and not Ayton.


There are barely any defensive stats out there that you can even use to quantify a player’s defense. Eye test is 90% of whether a player is a good defender or not.

Unless you think DeAndre Jordan leading the entire league in DRPM is the best defender in the league and Klay Thompson is 84th out of 95SG’s in DRPM.

Outside of the eye test of watching defense there is pretty much no way to quantify if a player is a good or bad defender as the stats have been showed to be extensively flawed.

NBA TPA has most of the contending rookies as positive defenders outside of Sexton, Young and Knox who have been rated as horrific.

Read on Twitter


This.

I didn't know Knox is a very bad defender btw.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1379 » by Bob8 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:12 am

Young gun 6 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
gh123 wrote:
No. Ayton has been positive defensively since December, so has Luka. JJJ is the best defender among rookies (shout out to Mitch, but he's not getting enough mpg and injured now) and SGA, I believe, is like Luka at least average. Young is a dead weight on D. I'd still pick Sexton tbh.


We have to be realistic here. Ayton is 6th from behind among Cs in DRPM, Luka 56th among Sfs, SGA 39th among Pgs and Trae dead last in DRPM. Only in positive territory is JJJ. This team would have been destroyed. Trae and Luka cannot play together and if they by some accident play together, they for sure need rim protector and not Ayton.


There are barely any defensive stats out there that you can even use to quantify a player’s defense. Eye test is 90% of whether a player is a good defender or not.

Unless you think DeAndre Jordan leading the entire league in DRPM is the best defender in the league and Klay Thompson is 84th out of 95SG’s in DRPM.

Outside of the eye test of watching defense there is pretty much no way to quantify if a player is a good or bad defender as the stats have been showed to be extensively flawed.

NBA TPA has most of the contending rookies as positive defenders outside of Sexton, Young and Knox who have been rated as horrific.

Read on Twitter


Sexton, Young and Knox are the worst defender in entire Nba by DRPM too. ;)

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/12/sort/DRPM

and we don't need any DRPM or other stats to see that Luka, Ayton and Trae are not exactly good defenders anyway. No problem if you have one or maybe 2 below average defenders in your team, but 3 together is way too much. Luka has an advantage here, because he can be hidden, because of his size and strength.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1380 » by Young gun 6 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:22 am

Bob8 wrote:
Young gun 6 wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
We have to be realistic here. Ayton is 6th from behind among Cs in DRPM, Luka 56th among Sfs, SGA 39th among Pgs and Trae dead last in DRPM. Only in positive territory is JJJ. This team would have been destroyed. Trae and Luka cannot play together and if they by some accident play together, they for sure need rim protector and not Ayton.


There are barely any defensive stats out there that you can even use to quantify a player’s defense. Eye test is 90% of whether a player is a good defender or not.

Unless you think DeAndre Jordan leading the entire league in DRPM is the best defender in the league and Klay Thompson is 84th out of 95SG’s in DRPM.

Outside of the eye test of watching defense there is pretty much no way to quantify if a player is a good or bad defender as the stats have been showed to be extensively flawed.

NBA TPA has most of the contending rookies as positive defenders outside of Sexton, Young and Knox who have been rated as horrific.

Read on Twitter


Sexton, Young and Knox are the worst defender in entire Nba by DRPM too. ;)

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/12/sort/DRPM

and we don't need any DRPM or other stats to see that Luka, Ayton and Trae are not exactly good defenders anyway. No problem if you have one or maybe 2 below average defenders in your team, but 3 together is way too much. Luka has an advantage here, because he can be hidden, because of his size and strength.


Yeah I think someone like Mikal Bridges if you wanted a balanced team would be a good fit, two elite rookie defenders in JJJ and Bridges, two average to below average defenders in Doncic and Ayton and then Young being a great playmaker with 4 guys who can shoot the 3 ball too (Ayton the exception).

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