2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[Bob8]

There are barely any defensive stats out there that you can even use to quantify a player’s defense. Eye test is 90% of whether a player is a good defender or not.

Unless you think DeAndre Jordan leading the entire league in DRPM is the best defender in the league and Klay Thompson is 84th out of 95SG’s in DRPM.

Outside of the eye test of watching defense there is pretty much no way to quantify if a player is a good or bad defender as the stats have been showed to be extensively flawed.

NBA TPA has most of the contending rookies as positive defenders outside of Sexton, Young and Knox who have been rated as horrific.

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Sexton, Young and Knox are the worst defender in entire Nba by DRPM too.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/12/sort/DRPM

and we don't need any DRPM or other stats to see that Luka, Ayton and Trae are not exactly good defenders anyway. No problem if you have one or maybe 2 below average defenders in your team, but 3 together is way too much. Luka has an advantage here, because he can be hidden, because of his size and strength.

Yeah I think someone like Mikal Bridges if you wanted a balanced team would be a good fit, two elite rookie defenders in JJJ and Bridges, two average to below average defenders in Doncic and Ayton and then Young being a great playmaker with 4 guys who can shoot the 3 ball too (Ayton the exception).

something like that. but one of Trae, Luka, Ayton should go. Imho Doncic and Ayton can fit good together, if other 3 are good defenders. Trae and Ayton not very likely. Trae would need great rim protector. SGA/Luka/Bridges/JJJ/Ayton look much better to me.

[AdagioPace]

I only watched the highlights and I would watch the entire Mavs-suns game just to follow Kokoskov' sad face while doncic drills stepback threes. He needed to abide by the Suns' line of thought but everybody knows what he thinks deep-inside. A big part of him died during the draft.

[Senchu]

There is battle for 5th spot on all rookie team after obvious (young/luka/jj/ayton).

My vote goes out to Kurucs. He is good on defense, 10points on 59% ts and his Nets are winning a lot with him placed in starting 5.

[3toheadmelo]

pretty impressive

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[mcmurphy]

There is battle for 5th spot on all rookie team after obvious (young/luka/jj/ayton).

My vote goes out to Kurucs. He is good on defense, 10points on 59% ts and his Nets are winning a lot with him placed in starting 5.

the impact of Kurucs is evident...

Nets before 14 dec
OR=108.4 / DR= 109.9 ==> NetRtg= -1.5

after 14 dec (insertion of Kurucs in starting lineup)
OR=112.0 / DR= 110.1 ==> NetRtg= +1.9

The defence is practically the same but the offence is improved of +3.6 points

[Mr B]

I agree with this. Those that have actually watched Carlisle teams and know his history know that he’s the best thing that could have happen to Luka. He’s the best possible coach for Luka.

and Dallas is the best team for Luka for his rookie season. but now is on GM and RC to build the team around Luka. not the easiest task knowing how little of value outside DSJ is there. they need another top50 player, rim protector and some 3&D wings.

Rome was not built in a day.

What that seems obvious to me is that DSJ/Matthews/Barnes can not start.

To me the starting lineup should be:

- Luka
- DSJ or Matthews
- Barnes
- Kleber
- DJ

the combination of DSJ/Matthews/Barnes is the worst 3-lineup with -6.8 NetRtg

instead the combination of Luka/Kleber/DJ is the best 3-lineup with +10.7 NetRtg (3-lineup with at least 2 starters)

so my perplexity (from the great esteem I have of) is why RC don't put stably Maxi Kleber as starting PF

The only problem with that is starting Kleber kills your bench.

[mcmurphy]

and Dallas is the best team for Luka for his rookie season. but now is on GM and RC to build the team around Luka. not the easiest task knowing how little of value outside DSJ is there. they need another top50 player, rim protector and some 3&D wings.

Rome was not built in a day.

What that seems obvious to me is that DSJ/Matthews/Barnes can not start.

To me the starting lineup should be:

- Luka
- DSJ or Matthews
- Barnes
- Kleber
- DJ

the combination of DSJ/Matthews/Barnes is the worst 3-lineup with -6.8 NetRtg

instead the combination of Luka/Kleber/DJ is the best 3-lineup with +10.7 NetRtg (3-lineup with at least 2 starters)

so my perplexity (from the great esteem I have of) is why RC don't put stably Maxi Kleber as starting PF

The only problem with that is starting Kleber kills your bench.

so is better kills the starters for 30mins than kills the bench for 18 mins... mmmmmmmh

[KokoKaizer]

pretty impressive

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Ouch...

He's on par with Carmelo... I hope Doncic had another one before the end of season

[Kabookalu]

pretty impressive

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Ouch...

He's on par with Carmelo... I hope Doncic had another one before the end of season

Young Carmelo before he was a braindead chucker was a good player to be compared to.

[OrangeBlueSkies]

Last night I heard Jalen Rose and I believe it was Chauncey Billups ( May have been Paul Pierce) agreeing that they would take Donovan Mitchell over Luka Doncic. What?

Need to start this poll

[K4P]

I like Luka a lot, but it is far too soon to put him above/below other young guys especially since you can't really compare potential

[And1+2]

Luka is the better prospect by far and is already better than Simmons, Mitchell and Tatum.

Paul Pierce in particular is a giant clueless troll.

[Sgt Major]

Does every dumb statement require a poll? It's insane, really. People only talk about numbers numbers numbers, instead of tactics, positioning, movement...

[The High Cyde]

I'd go

Luka
Simmons
Tatum
Mitchell

[GeorgeMarcus]

Doncic and Simmons are without question better than Tatum and Mitchell. They also have higher ceilings.

[RoyceDa59]

Doncic and Simmons are without question better than Tatum and Mitchell. They also have higher ceilings.

Agreed.


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[Young gun 6]

If you take Luka > Booker there is absolutely no way you can take Mitchell > Luka

[NBAFan93]

Didn’t Mitchell and Simmons both average more points last year and didn’t Simmons have more rebounds and assists? Didn’t both Mitchell and Simmons lead their teams to the playoffs and win a playoff series? Wasn’t Tatum one of the strongest players on a team that made it to the conference finals and took the Cavs to 7 games. Didn’t he lead the league in 3PT%?

I guess I’d need to see a stat comparison, but I don’t believe Luka’s supporting cast is anywhere near as bad as his fans make them out to be and I think those rookies from last year were equally impressive.

[lambchop]

Simmons ceiling is extremely high, cause IF he adds a 33% jumper from three, he will be tough contain. But atm nothing suggests that his jumper could make it from the practice gyms to an actual nba game.
Right now I still feel as though Simmons is the easiest to limit out of the 4 players named

[Ascrilas]

Didn’t Mitchell and Simmons both average more points last year and didn’t Simmons have more rebounds and assists? Didn’t both Mitchell and Simmons lead their teams to the playoffs and win a playoff series? Wasn’t Tatum one of the strongest players on a team that made it to the conference finals and took the Cavs to 7 games. Didn’t he lead the league in 3PT%?

I guess I’d need to see a stat comparison, but I don’t believe Luka’s supporting cast is anywhere near as bad as his fans make them out to be and I think those rookies from last year were equally impressive.

Where did Simmons ever average more points than Doncic? Mitchell did, but he also had way worse efficiency.
Also, Luka is 19 whereas both Simmons and Mitchell were 21. Tatum was at Doncic's age but his stats were inferior. Gotta give him props for showing up in the playoffs though.

Still, I don't see know how any of them is on Luka's level as a prospect. If I could swap Tatum and Brown just for Doncic, I'd do it immediately.