Deandre Ayton news and highlights

[bwgood77]

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[lilfishi22]

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Need a bit more detail on how those are graded .........

[Damkac]

Ayton had a chance to show everyone the ROY race is not over but instead he just prove that the people saying that Doncic is few levels above him were right. I'm really worried about his competitiveness. He should be on fire in the game against Dallas but he had one of his worst games.
And when he said his goal is to get 2nd contract in the NBA. I'm afraid he is another Bynum. Somebody who only plays basketball because he is so tall and it can makes him rich.

[bwgood77]

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Need a bit more detail on how those are graded .........

No idea...I only see through last year on their site unless it's under premium content..

https://www.bball-index.com/2017-18-player-grades/#

[lilfishi22]

Ayton had a chance to show everyone the ROY race is not over but instead he just prove that the people saying that Doncic is few levels above him were right. I'm really worried about his competitiveness. He should be on fire in the game against Dallas but he had one of his worst games.
And when he said his goal is to get 2nd contract in the NBA. I'm afraid he is another Bynum. Somebody who only plays basketball because he is so tall and it can makes him rich.

I absolutely hate that this is even a discussion right now. We had a similar discussion about Bender throughout his career.

I can accept if Ayton is a bit behind skill wise, experience wise and even physical maturity but questionable competitiveness/effort is a huge red flag

[AtheJ415]

Ayton had a chance to show everyone the ROY race is not over but instead he just prove that the people saying that Doncic is few levels above him were right. I'm really worried about his competitiveness. He should be on fire in the game against Dallas but he had one of his worst games.
And when he said his goal is to get 2nd contract in the NBA. I'm afraid he is another Bynum. Somebody who only plays basketball because he is so tall and it can makes him rich.

He played well in game 1 against Dallas and outplayed Doncic in that, but I guess we're just going to ignore that? Doncic is not "a few levels above him". Doncic is better right now. That was expected. Also, I don't see by that game that he was uncompetitive. He missed shots and had a bad game. It happens. He is a walking 17 and 11 dude as a rookie with little relative experience and is still growing into his role. He's been fine imo. His defense has improved every month on a month to month basis. Not everybody has to be some ra ra dude who plays with his hair on fire. Tim Duncan is arguably the best PF ever and didn't seem super competitive game to game.

[Revived]

Ayton had a chance to show everyone the ROY race is not over but instead he just prove that the people saying that Doncic is few levels above him were right. I'm really worried about his competitiveness. He should be on fire in the game against Dallas but he had one of his worst games.
And when he said his goal is to get 2nd contract in the NBA. I'm afraid he is another Bynum. Somebody who only plays basketball because he is so tall and it can makes him rich.

He played well in game 1 against Dallas and outplayed Doncic in that, but I guess we're just going to ignore that? Doncic is not "a few levels above him". Doncic is better right now. That was expected. Also, I don't see by that game that he was uncompetitive. He missed shots and had a bad game. It happens. He is a walking 17 and 11 dude as a rookie with little relative experience and is still growing into his role. He's been fine imo. His defense has improved every month on a month to month basis. Not everybody has to be some ra ra dude who plays with his hair on fire. Tim Duncan is arguably the best PF ever and didn't seem super competitive game to game.

I hate the Spurs as much everyone but this is beyond insulting. Tim Duncan came to play every single game even if his demeanor was always calm.

There is zero comparisons between him and yes even rookie Ayton.

[handsome salary]

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That's gonna look good on a banner in the rafters.

[Saberestar]

Ayton had a chance to show everyone the ROY race is not over but instead he just prove that the people saying that Doncic is few levels above him were right. I'm really worried about his competitiveness. He should be on fire in the game against Dallas but he had one of his worst games.
And when he said his goal is to get 2nd contract in the NBA. I'm afraid he is another Bynum. Somebody who only plays basketball because he is so tall and it can makes him rich.

I absolutely hate that this is even a discussion right now. We had a similar discussion about Bender throughout his career.

I can accept if Ayton is a bit behind skill wise, experience wise and even physical maturity but questionable competitiveness/effort is a huge red flag

I do not have any problem with players that do not play SUPER hard or go full strong every play if they play great because his skill level.

There are a ton of players in the league that play superhard every time that they are on the court and they are not any good. Goodwin is an example on the Suns. Josh Jackson has played bad and his effort/motor is great. What about Acy who is now on a ten day contract?

Like I said about Bender in the past, Ayton needs to improve his skillset more than change his mind.

Ayton does not know to dribble the ball AT ALL. This needs to be changed. He needs to be able to put the ball on the floor if he wants to produce on offense by himself, without that he is just a finisher.

That is why we are trying so hard to give him the ball close to the rim, and it makes the offense really stagnant. He needs to work hard this next summer and improve his ball handling. Just a couple of moves dribbling the ball would be HUGE for his playmaking ability.

And defensively it is all about conditioning, study the game and effort. I think he can be an above average player on defense even with his quiet mindset.

[spanishninja]

Ayton had a chance to show everyone the ROY race is not over but instead he just prove that the people saying that Doncic is few levels above him were right. I'm really worried about his competitiveness. He should be on fire in the game against Dallas but he had one of his worst games.
And when he said his goal is to get 2nd contract in the NBA. I'm afraid he is another Bynum. Somebody who only plays basketball because he is so tall and it can makes him rich.

I absolutely hate that this is even a discussion right now. We had a similar discussion about Bender throughout his career.

I can accept if Ayton is a bit behind skill wise, experience wise and even physical maturity but questionable competitiveness/effort is a huge red flag

I do not have any problem with players that do not play SUPER hard or go full strong every play if they play great because his skill level.

There are a ton of players in the league that play superhard every time that they are on the court and they are not any good. Goodwin is an example on the Suns. Josh Jackson has played bad and his effort/motor is great. What about Acy who is now on a ten day contract?

Like I said about Bender in the past, Ayton needs to improve his skillset more than change his mind.

Ayton does not know to dribble the ball AT ALL. This needs to be changed. He needs to be able to put the ball on the floor if he wants to produce on offense by himself, without that he is just a finisher.

That is why we are trying so hard to give him the ball close to the rim, and it makes the offense really stagnant. He needs to work hard this next summer and improve his ball handling. Just a couple of moves dribbling the ball would be HUGE for his playmaking ability.

And defensively it is all about conditioning, study the game and effort. I think he can be an above average player on defense even with his quiet mindset.

the sooner the season ends the better. Ayton needs to focus exclusively on a few aspects of his game, and the games are basically distractions from his prorgession at this point because he's not really given much of an opportunity to learn on the job. not that the stuff he can do already isn't very impressive, but to make real progress you need to have a fine line between coasting and being annihilated, which really seems to be what you see from him playing against lesser big men or the league's elite. enough challenge to know he needs to improve to succeed but not so much challenge that anything he does it meaningless. You can see this comparing his games during the East Coast trip and the recent homestead against Embiid, Jokic, and Adams.

[AtheJ415]

Ayton had a chance to show everyone the ROY race is not over but instead he just prove that the people saying that Doncic is few levels above him were right. I'm really worried about his competitiveness. He should be on fire in the game against Dallas but he had one of his worst games.
And when he said his goal is to get 2nd contract in the NBA. I'm afraid he is another Bynum. Somebody who only plays basketball because he is so tall and it can makes him rich.

He played well in game 1 against Dallas and outplayed Doncic in that, but I guess we're just going to ignore that? Doncic is not "a few levels above him". Doncic is better right now. That was expected. Also, I don't see by that game that he was uncompetitive. He missed shots and had a bad game. It happens. He is a walking 17 and 11 dude as a rookie with little relative experience and is still growing into his role. He's been fine imo. His defense has improved every month on a month to month basis. Not everybody has to be some ra ra dude who plays with his hair on fire. Tim Duncan is arguably the best PF ever and didn't seem super competitive game to game.

I hate the Spurs as much everyone but this is beyond insulting. Tim Duncan came to play every single game even if his demeanor was always calm.

There is zero comparisons between him and yes even rookie Ayton.

You're assuming Ayton didn't "come to play" just because he didn't play well. You are correlating that aspect with effort, and it is insulting. Duncan had bad games, and there is a very real comparison to be made between their demeanors. Ayton actually has a better ORtg-DRtg differential and is more efficient across the board comparing rookie years, at a year younger than Duncan. Duncan was a much better defender, but Ayton's offense was better across the board from both a volume and efficiency perspective (lower turnover %, higher rebound%, higher TS%, higher FT%, higher FG%, etc.). Point being, if Ayton is a better offensive player than Tim Duncan despite not "coming to play" or "giving effort", then what the hell is the guy going to do if he decides to play hard?

[Revived]

He played well in game 1 against Dallas and outplayed Doncic in that, but I guess we're just going to ignore that? Doncic is not "a few levels above him". Doncic is better right now. That was expected. Also, I don't see by that game that he was uncompetitive. He missed shots and had a bad game. It happens. He is a walking 17 and 11 dude as a rookie with little relative experience and is still growing into his role. He's been fine imo. His defense has improved every month on a month to month basis. Not everybody has to be some ra ra dude who plays with his hair on fire. Tim Duncan is arguably the best PF ever and didn't seem super competitive game to game.

I hate the Spurs as much everyone but this is beyond insulting. Tim Duncan came to play every single game even if his demeanor was always calm.

There is zero comparisons between him and yes even rookie Ayton.

You're assuming Ayton didn't "come to play" just because he didn't play well. You are correlating that aspect with effort, and it is insulting. Duncan had bad games, and there is a very real comparison to be made between their demeanors. Ayton actually has a better ORtg-DRtg differential and is more efficient across the board comparing rookie years, at a year younger than Duncan. Duncan was a much better defender, but Ayton's offense was better across the board from both a volume and efficiency perspective (lower turnover %, higher rebound%, higher TS%, higher FT%, higher FG%, etc.). Point being, if Ayton is a better offensive player than Tim Duncan despite not "coming to play" or "giving effort", then what the hell is the guy going to do if he decides to play hard?

Uh yeah I'm saying Ayton doesn't always play with good effort. Are you actually questioning that? Even his own damn coach and teammates have made comments about it. Even Ayton's biggest fans both in college and the pros have admitted he has motor issues and doesn't play with the same effort game to game. Of course in an 82 game season it's bound to happen but it's happened too frequently thus far and we aren't even at the midway point of the season yet.

[Revived]

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Need a bit more detail on how those are graded .........

It's too bad they don't have a grade for rim protection.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Need a bit more detail on how those are graded .........

It's too bad they don't have a grade for rim protection.

They might...it says those are his "Best Grades". I wonder if anyone asked his what his worst grades were in.

He has a ton of strengths though which is a positive thing. He should only continue to improve if he's as hard of a worker and hungry as they say he is.

[bigfoot]

I hate the Spurs as much everyone but this is beyond insulting. Tim Duncan came to play every single game even if his demeanor was always calm.

There is zero comparisons between him and yes even rookie Ayton.

You're assuming Ayton didn't "come to play" just because he didn't play well. You are correlating that aspect with effort, and it is insulting. Duncan had bad games, and there is a very real comparison to be made between their demeanors. Ayton actually has a better ORtg-DRtg differential and is more efficient across the board comparing rookie years, at a year younger than Duncan. Duncan was a much better defender, but Ayton's offense was better across the board from both a volume and efficiency perspective (lower turnover %, higher rebound%, higher TS%, higher FT%, higher FG%, etc.). Point being, if Ayton is a better offensive player than Tim Duncan despite not "coming to play" or "giving effort", then what the hell is the guy going to do if he decides to play hard?

Uh yeah I'm saying Ayton doesn't always play with good effort. Are you actually questioning that? Even his own damn coach and teammates have made comments about it. Even Ayton's biggest fans both in college and the pros have admitted he has motor issues and doesn't play with the same effort game to game. Of course in an 82 game season it's bound to happen but it's happened too frequently thus far and we aren't even at the midway point of the season yet.

This is spot on ... Koko, Eddie Johnson, Ann Drysdale, the talking heads at Arizona Sports Radio, his teammates, and lots of posters on this board have mentioned Ayton's lack of effort/motor at times. It's unquestionable. Notice nobody questions the motor on Bridges or Melton, our other two rookies.

[Frank Lee]

He played well in game 1 against Dallas and outplayed Doncic in that, but I guess we're just going to ignore that? Doncic is not "a few levels above him". Doncic is better right now. That was expected. Also, I don't see by that game that he was uncompetitive. He missed shots and had a bad game. It happens. He is a walking 17 and 11 dude as a rookie with little relative experience and is still growing into his role. He's been fine imo. His defense has improved every month on a month to month basis. Not everybody has to be some ra ra dude who plays with his hair on fire. Tim Duncan is arguably the best PF ever and didn't seem super competitive game to game.

I hate the Spurs as much everyone but this is beyond insulting. Tim Duncan came to play every single game even if his demeanor was always calm.

There is zero comparisons between him and yes even rookie Ayton.

You're assuming Ayton didn't "come to play" just because he didn't play well. You are correlating that aspect with effort, and it is insulting. Duncan had bad games, and there is a very real comparison to be made between their demeanors. Ayton actually has a better ORtg-DRtg differential and is more efficient across the board comparing rookie years, at a year younger than Duncan. Duncan was a much better defender, but Ayton's offense was better across the board from both a volume and efficiency perspective (lower turnover %, higher rebound%, higher TS%, higher FT%, higher FG%, etc.). Point being, if Ayton is a better offensive player than Tim Duncan despite not "coming to play" or "giving effort", then what the hell is the guy going to do if he decides to play hard?

Well, I wonder how Ayton 's stats and ratings would have been going against Shaq, Camby, Morning, Mutumbo, Rodman, Barkley, Garnett, Malone, Mason, Oakley, Sabonis, Willis, Kemp, Igauskas, Hakeem, McDyes, Pippen, Smits, etc....

Stats fact credibility really gets stretched when you compare players of different eras. Im not sure how Ayton would fair going up against the bruisers of the 90's.... at least not now.

[MrMiyagi]

I hate the Spurs as much everyone but this is beyond insulting. Tim Duncan came to play every single game even if his demeanor was always calm.

There is zero comparisons between him and yes even rookie Ayton.

You're assuming Ayton didn't "come to play" just because he didn't play well. You are correlating that aspect with effort, and it is insulting. Duncan had bad games, and there is a very real comparison to be made between their demeanors. Ayton actually has a better ORtg-DRtg differential and is more efficient across the board comparing rookie years, at a year younger than Duncan. Duncan was a much better defender, but Ayton's offense was better across the board from both a volume and efficiency perspective (lower turnover %, higher rebound%, higher TS%, higher FT%, higher FG%, etc.). Point being, if Ayton is a better offensive player than Tim Duncan despite not "coming to play" or "giving effort", then what the hell is the guy going to do if he decides to play hard?

Well, I wonder how Ayton 's stats and ratings would have been going against Shaq, Camby, Morning, Mutumbo, Rodman, Barkley, Garnett, Malone, Mason, Oakley, Sabonis, Willis, Kemp, Igauskas, Hakeem, McDyes, Pippen, Smits, etc....

Stats fact credibility really gets stretched when you compare players of different eras. Im not sure how Ayton would fair going up against the bruisers of the 90's.... at least not now.

It's hard to get into the weeds of eras. Ayton would also have stayed in college for 2-3 more years if he'd played in the 90s, and would probably be better as a rookie, but he'd also be 22. You've got to look at him with the guys of his era who have all come in a little more raw, and he compares very well:

Spoiler:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Deandre+Ayton&player_id1_select=Deandre+Ayton&player_id1=aytonde01&y1=2019&player_id2_hint=DeMarcus+Cousins&player_id2_select=DeMarcus+Cousins&player_id2=couside01&y2=2011&player_id3_hint=Nikola+Jokic&player_id3_select=Nikola+Jokic&player_id3=jokicni01&y3=2016&player_id4_hint=Anthony+Davis&player_id4_select=Anthony+Davis&player_id4=davisan02&y4=2013&player_id5_hint=Karl-Anthony+Towns&player_id5_select=Karl-Anthony+Towns&player_id5=townska01&idx=players&y5=2016&player_id6_hint=Kristaps+Porzingis&player_id6_select=Kristaps+Porzingis&player_id6=porzikr01&y6=2016

[AtheJ415]

I hate the Spurs as much everyone but this is beyond insulting. Tim Duncan came to play every single game even if his demeanor was always calm.

There is zero comparisons between him and yes even rookie Ayton.

You're assuming Ayton didn't "come to play" just because he didn't play well. You are correlating that aspect with effort, and it is insulting. Duncan had bad games, and there is a very real comparison to be made between their demeanors. Ayton actually has a better ORtg-DRtg differential and is more efficient across the board comparing rookie years, at a year younger than Duncan. Duncan was a much better defender, but Ayton's offense was better across the board from both a volume and efficiency perspective (lower turnover %, higher rebound%, higher TS%, higher FT%, higher FG%, etc.). Point being, if Ayton is a better offensive player than Tim Duncan despite not "coming to play" or "giving effort", then what the hell is the guy going to do if he decides to play hard?

Well, I wonder how Ayton 's stats and ratings would have been going against Shaq, Camby, Morning, Mutumbo, Rodman, Barkley, Garnett, Malone, Mason, Oakley, Sabonis, Willis, Kemp, Igauskas, Hakeem, McDyes, Pippen, Smits, etc....

Stats fact credibility really gets stretched when you compare players of different eras. Im not sure how Ayton would fair going up against the bruisers of the 90's.... at least not now.

His numbers and impact are still very much elite regardless of era. His gravity is a big deal for us and a big benefit to everyone else on the court. I just think a lot of people are falling into the trap of disliking a guy who isn't a ra-ra, "let's fight somebody" type of mindset, and is irrationally associating that with lazyness and lack of effort. Ayton's demeanor is mild, but that does NOT mean he is lazy or uncompetitive. One of my best friends growing up is a starting NFL quarterback and he has a mild demeanor and is incredibly nice, but make no mistake, he is competitive as all hell. When you've played sports for a long time and are forced into being "sportsmanlike" a ton, some people just keep the competitiveness to their selves or behind closed doors. Truth is guys like Ayton don't become THAT skilled while playing this game for THAT little amount of time without a **** load of work. I doubt lazyness has ever been an issue. Though I do bet conditioning could be an issue, like it is for most rookie bigs, and I think part of the jump in defensive impact month to month may be partly a result of conditioning improvement.

Suns fans have always liked the super fiery players (PJ Tucker, lusting for Beverly, going back to Raja Bell). Warren was better than PJ for years and fans always wanted to move Warren and keep Tucker, and I think that is exactly because of this.

[AtheJ415]

Ayton had a chance to show everyone the ROY race is not over but instead he just prove that the people saying that Doncic is few levels above him were right. I'm really worried about his competitiveness. He should be on fire in the game against Dallas but he had one of his worst games.
And when he said his goal is to get 2nd contract in the NBA. I'm afraid he is another Bynum. Somebody who only plays basketball because he is so tall and it can makes him rich.

I absolutely hate that this is even a discussion right now. We had a similar discussion about Bender throughout his career.

I can accept if Ayton is a bit behind skill wise, experience wise and even physical maturity but questionable competitiveness/effort is a huge red flag

I do not have any problem with players that do not play SUPER hard or go full strong every play if they play great because his skill level.

There are a ton of players in the league that play superhard every time that they are on the court and they are not any good. Goodwin is an example on the Suns. Josh Jackson has played bad and his effort/motor is great. What about Acy who is now on a ten day contract?

Like I said about Bender in the past, Ayton needs to improve his skillset more than change his mind.

Ayton does not know to dribble the ball AT ALL. This needs to be changed. He needs to be able to put the ball on the floor if he wants to produce on offense by himself, without that he is just a finisher.

That is why we are trying so hard to give him the ball close to the rim, and it makes the offense really stagnant. He needs to work hard this next summer and improve his ball handling. Just a couple of moves dribbling the ball would be HUGE for his playmaking ability.

And defensively it is all about conditioning, study the game and effort. I think he can be an above average player on defense even with his quiet mindset.

Also, just a reminder to everyone that Lebron was the laziest player in the NBA last year in terms of movement on the court. I guess he must not be very competitive.

[lilfishi22]

I absolutely hate that this is even a discussion right now. We had a similar discussion about Bender throughout his career.

I can accept if Ayton is a bit behind skill wise, experience wise and even physical maturity but questionable competitiveness/effort is a huge red flag

I do not have any problem with players that do not play SUPER hard or go full strong every play if they play great because his skill level.

There are a ton of players in the league that play superhard every time that they are on the court and they are not any good. Goodwin is an example on the Suns. Josh Jackson has played bad and his effort/motor is great. What about Acy who is now on a ten day contract?

Like I said about Bender in the past, Ayton needs to improve his skillset more than change his mind.

Ayton does not know to dribble the ball AT ALL. This needs to be changed. He needs to be able to put the ball on the floor if he wants to produce on offense by himself, without that he is just a finisher.

That is why we are trying so hard to give him the ball close to the rim, and it makes the offense really stagnant. He needs to work hard this next summer and improve his ball handling. Just a couple of moves dribbling the ball would be HUGE for his playmaking ability.

And defensively it is all about conditioning, study the game and effort. I think he can be an above average player on defense even with his quiet mindset.

Also, just a reminder to everyone that Lebron was the laziest player in the NBA last year in terms of movement on the court. I guess he must not be very competitive.

He's also in year 14 or something? He's put in plenty of effort over his career.

This is 20yo Ayton's first season. There shouldn't be any reason to question his competitiveness or effort out there