2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

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Who do you think are the best two rookies?

Ayton
147
18%
Bagley
12
1%
Bamba
6
1%
Carter
15
2%
Doncic
424
51%
Gilgeous-Alexander
18
2%
Jackson
159
19%
Knox
18
2%
Sexton
6
1%
Young
20
2%
 
Total votes: 825

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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1481 » by Riko » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:46 pm

King Ken wrote:Outside of Zion and maybe Barrett. No one else is really worth it for the Mavs to be a playoff team with in terms of who they draft. Morant wouldn't fit in Dallas. The others just aren't good enough to start. I think we are ok. It's the Zion pick that's dangerous but he changes any team Hopes with where he lands. That's why teams are turbo tanking.


I really don't see this "turbo tanking", is actually the opposite...
Last year at this date, there were 10 teams under .400, this year are only 5.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1482 » by Goon » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:14 pm

Jazztop wrote:
mcmurphy wrote:
Jazztop wrote:i think you’re missing my point. I’m not the one proclaiming him the future GOAT and all time GOAT rookie. If you want to be making these claims, your team should at least be .500. That’s one thing among several that separates last season’s top 3 rookies - who were all leaders / co-leaders of 2nd or C/F round playoff teams.

Like I said - it’s not racist to elevate him because of his ethnicity and nationality. But it is nevertheless an influencing factor in people’s assessment of him, whether they realise it or not.


sorry but read what you write?
contradict you in one sentence ... you say that to be at the level of GOAT (but who ever said that Doncic is at the level of MJ or Lebron?) should at least bring the team to 50% of wins when neither MJ nor Lebron have brought their teams to 0.500 as rookie

... and you say that Mitchell and Simmons are better of Doncic because "leading" their team to win >.500 (and Simmons is the second best player in Phila and Mitchell last season has been less important of Gobert and Ingles (and maybe Rubio))

today's logic is an opinion...
bro - nobody was proclaiming MJ was the GOAT as a rookie. Jeeeeezus!! However in his second year a certain Larry Bird did proclaim him the GOAT.

What I’m saying is - if you ARE going to proclaim someone a future MVP, HOFer, GOAT....they better be doing a damn sight more for their team than Doncic is doing now. Why not just say he looks good, ROTY front runner and a good selection trade for the Mavs. The ridiculous hype is what I’m obviously responding to and calling him the best rookie ever because he’s a young, white Euro.

Was Durant leading Seattle to a playoff spot as a rookie? Or should he do more as a future MVP? Same goes for Harden, Curry, LeBron... We all saw those guys were special immediately and future stars, was that wrong? Why shouldnt Luka be seen as someone with potential for MVP and HOF? He already is building a strong case for HOF with Spanish league, Euroleague and Eurobasket titles as well as being the MVP of the Spanish league and Euroleague. You are really trying your best to find “arguments” to downplay what Luka is doing.

And could you link us to comments labeling him as the “best rookie ever”? Thanks.

Seems at times like some are trying to even make the hype seem even bigger than it actually is, like its some argument against him. I don’t understand it but whatever.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1483 » by Johnny Firpo » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:32 pm

Jazztop wrote:I’m obviously responding to and calling him the best rookie ever because he’s a young, white Euro.


I'm sorry, but wtf. This is ridiculous, white euros are penalized for their race and home region all the time. They are called soft before they even play a game in the NBA. And you have the audacity to state that he gets preferential treatment and hype because he is a white euro? Do you even watch this league, and read articles? Doncic gets the hype entirely on merit, and I'm not saying that he should make the All-Star team btw.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1484 » by mcmurphy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:52 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
Jazztop wrote:I’m obviously responding to and calling him the best rookie ever because he’s a young, white Euro.


I'm sorry, but wtf. This is ridiculous, white euros are penalized for their race and home region all the time. They are called soft before they even play a game in the NBA. And you have the audacity to state that he gets preferential treatment and hype because he is a white euro? Do you even watch this league, and read articles? Doncic gets the hype entirely on merit, and I'm not saying that he should make the All-Star team btw.


Firpo you are touching the point...

Jazztop, there was no need to close with those two words ... we understood what gnaws you
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1485 » by Dirk » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:56 pm

Please tell me why would anyone debate with someone that writes this kind of stuff...

Ok, he wrote one time...
If Doncic’s stats belonged to a black guy from California who went through the NCAA and entered after his freshman year, there’s no way he gets close to all this love.


He was given some credit, alerted to his racial baiting, but he doubles down...

The ridiculous hype is what I’m obviously responding to and calling him the best rookie ever because he’s a young, white Euro.


And of course, it's the same user who compares team totals between Mavs, Sixers and Jazz and then uses them as a big argument to evaluate individual players.

This isn't the type of mentality that anyone should be wasting their times with. It's either intentionally baiting or well... let's not even go there.

Just tune this user out and move on, otherwise you will continue to dumb down the topic.

That user has received a warning for baiting with racial undertones.

No one should get away with continued insinuations that people hype up one of the most exciting players in the league because he's white... and from Europe.

Please report some of the ridiculously bad posts that some make from time to time.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1486 » by mcmurphy » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:03 pm

Jazztop wrote:
mcmurphy wrote:
mcmurphy wrote:
to continue the contradiction of your post...

Utah 2016-17 wins 51 game and get the WCS
Utah 2017-18 (with Mitchell) wins 48 game and get the WCS (so?)

Phila without Embiid in West would be a lottery team

What evidence for this? The 5 or 6 games that Embiid’s been missing? You know they won about 16 in a row last season without Embiid, right?

Just a clueless take. Kind of like saying the Warriors would be a lottery team without Steph because they had a mini struggle there.


dude, do you know that the last 8 game of last season (all wins) without Embiid were against lotto teams fighting for a best draft position...
outside of these games, the record of Phila without Embiid was 3-8

this season without Embiid the Phila record is 1-2
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1487 » by Bob8 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:26 pm

King Ken wrote:
Squigglepuffin wrote:With every game that goes by it just more and more undeniable how bad a trade the Hawks made on draft night. I can understand, and could understand at the time it happened, why the Suns picked Ayton. It can be justified so I can't really give them crap. I can understand, and could understand at the time it happened, why the Kings picked Bagley. It can be justified so I can't really give them crap. I think he'll end up being very good. I just cannot for the life of me find a way to justify Trae Young + a pick that at best will be #6 for Luka Doncic.

Even at the time it was painfully obvious to me and a lot of people that there was a significant gap in talent between Trae and Luka - at the time and projecting into the future. I even remember a lot of people surprised to see Trae picked at high as #5. Some had him as low as #10 or even lower.

I mean maybe the Mavs end up giving the Hawks the #9 pick, and the Hawks end up with the #3 pick and they can trade up to #2 to get RJ Barrett if you're really, really lucky it all works out that good (because no ones trading Zion for that). On the flipside the way the draft lottery works from this year forward, with the percentages at each spot all different and now more than ever the draft lottery is more unpredictable than ever, what happens if Dallas leapfrogs into the top 3?

I mean, wow, Luka is just sticking it to everybody. With every game that goes by the Hawks GM must be kicking himself. He seems to have tried to replicate the Tatum + Sac pick Boston did the year before but this time it backfired badly.

If the Hawks get the #1 pick, AND the #9 pick, and Trae, then the trade looks to be more even and can well be justified because of Zion. But RJ Barrett, Trae Young and the #9 pick in an undeniably weak draft class - I would give all that up to get Luka in a Hawks uniform. At this point though it looks to be one of the worst draft night trades ever, up there with the Celtics, Brooklyn Nets deal.

With every game that goes by that trade looks worse and worse.

Meh :crazy:



We think Trae could be one of the best players in the NBA once he is polished. There is a chance he could be better than Luka. There is a chance that he will never be better. Guess what, it's not life or death that he is. His job isn't valued in how he compares to Luka. It's based on how he does on the Atlanta Hawks.



You think Trae could be one of the best players in the Nba? Based on what?

It sounds like odds are similar that Trae will be better than Luka, than other way around? Really? I don’t understand you Americans, everything has to be politically correct. What’s wrong if we say it’s highly unlikely that Trae will be ever near Luka, but he will still be very good player?

Luka is very skilled, but the difference maker is, that he’s very skilled 6’8”, 230 guy. Nobody would have talked about Luka like that, if he was 6’1”. Hawks just didn’t understand how important combinations is his skills and his size. Trae can be good, but he cannot do half of things Luka can, because he’s undersized guard.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1488 » by guille_4 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:00 pm

Luka with another great game.

Still surprised he is shooting poorly from the FT line. He's now down to 71% and I expected him to shoot close to 80%.

Anyways, I'm starting to believe he has a case for the last forward position for the all star game. He'd be competing with the likes of Tobias Harris, Danilo Gallinari, Steven Adams.

Considering the fans want him in the game, I don't see why he shouldn't make it over those guys. I think he belongs, he's in that tier of a player.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1489 » by LukaV » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:34 pm

Mavs' video for Dončić as 2019 All Star - .

Does anyone know where to look at FT% per quarter? I'd be interested to know whether Dončić shoots FT% significantly better early in the game vs. later when fatigue sets in. Thanks.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1490 » by King Ken » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:43 pm

Bob8 wrote:
King Ken wrote:
Squigglepuffin wrote:With every game that goes by it just more and more undeniable how bad a trade the Hawks made on draft night. I can understand, and could understand at the time it happened, why the Suns picked Ayton. It can be justified so I can't really give them crap. I can understand, and could understand at the time it happened, why the Kings picked Bagley. It can be justified so I can't really give them crap. I think he'll end up being very good. I just cannot for the life of me find a way to justify Trae Young + a pick that at best will be #6 for Luka Doncic.

Even at the time it was painfully obvious to me and a lot of people that there was a significant gap in talent between Trae and Luka - at the time and projecting into the future. I even remember a lot of people surprised to see Trae picked at high as #5. Some had him as low as #10 or even lower.

I mean maybe the Mavs end up giving the Hawks the #9 pick, and the Hawks end up with the #3 pick and they can trade up to #2 to get RJ Barrett if you're really, really lucky it all works out that good (because no ones trading Zion for that). On the flipside the way the draft lottery works from this year forward, with the percentages at each spot all different and now more than ever the draft lottery is more unpredictable than ever, what happens if Dallas leapfrogs into the top 3?

I mean, wow, Luka is just sticking it to everybody. With every game that goes by the Hawks GM must be kicking himself. He seems to have tried to replicate the Tatum + Sac pick Boston did the year before but this time it backfired badly.

If the Hawks get the #1 pick, AND the #9 pick, and Trae, then the trade looks to be more even and can well be justified because of Zion. But RJ Barrett, Trae Young and the #9 pick in an undeniably weak draft class - I would give all that up to get Luka in a Hawks uniform. At this point though it looks to be one of the worst draft night trades ever, up there with the Celtics, Brooklyn Nets deal.

With every game that goes by that trade looks worse and worse.

Meh :crazy:



We think Trae could be one of the best players in the NBA once he is polished. There is a chance he could be better than Luka. There is a chance that he will never be better. Guess what, it's not life or death that he is. His job isn't valued in how he compares to Luka. It's based on how he does on the Atlanta Hawks.



You think Trae could be one of the best players in the Nba? Based on what?

It sounds like odds are similar that Trae will be better than Luka, than other way around? Really? I don’t understand you Americans, everything has to be politically correct. What’s wrong if we say it’s highly unlikely that Trae will be ever near Luka, but he will still be very good player?

Luka is very skilled, but the difference maker is, that he’s very skilled 6’8”, 230 guy. Nobody would have talked about Luka like that, if he was 6’1”. Hawks just didn’t understand how important combinations is his skills and his size. Trae can be good, but he cannot do half of things Luka can, because he’s undersized guard.

You have asked me this question before on the Hawks board, I answered your question with about 5 highly detailed posts and you continue to spam my posts. Put me on ignore. In fact, I'll do the honors blocking you Image
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1491 » by Goon » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:44 pm

LukaV wrote:Does anyone know where to look at FT% per quarter? I'd be interested to know whether Dončić shoots FT% significantly better early in the game vs. later when fatigue sets in. Thanks.


Overall: 73.5%
1st Q: 79.6%
2nd Q: 82.5%
3rd Q: 69.9%
4th Q: 64.6%
OT: 75%

It seem it does go down as the games goes on. BTW number of FT attempts also goes up in the 2nd half. Its 2.7 FTA in the first half and 3.4 FTA in the 2nd.

Data from (look at "by period"):
https://stats.nba.com/player/1629029/traditional/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Split=ingame
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1492 » by gh123 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:12 pm

Goon wrote:
LukaV wrote:Does anyone know where to look at FT% per quarter? I'd be interested to know whether Dončić shoots FT% significantly better early in the game vs. later when fatigue sets in. Thanks.


Overall: 73.5%
1st Q: 79.6%
2nd Q: 82.5%
3rd Q: 69.9%
4th Q: 64.6%
OT: 75%

It seem it does go down as the games goes on. BTW number of FT attempts also goes up in the 2nd half. Its 2.7 FTA in the first half and 3.4 FTA in the 2nd.

Data from (look at "by period"):
https://stats.nba.com/player/1629029/traditional/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Split=ingame


He misses a lot on his 1st attempt, though it doesn't look like he's rushing it or anything.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1493 » by burek3 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:18 pm

King Ken wrote:He is the most talented player we have ever drafted


I believe that outside of Luka, the most talented player ever drafted by Hawks was Pau Gasol.
At #3.
Traded on draft day to Memphis.

That's a funny "coincidence" if I ever saw one.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1494 » by Bob8 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:40 pm

King Ken wrote:
Bob8 wrote:
King Ken wrote:Meh :crazy:



We think Trae could be one of the best players in the NBA once he is polished. There is a chance he could be better than Luka. There is a chance that he will never be better. Guess what, it's not life or death that he is. His job isn't valued in how he compares to Luka. It's based on how he does on the Atlanta Hawks.



You think Trae could be one of the best players in the Nba? Based on what?

It sounds like odds are similar that Trae will be better than Luka, than other way around? Really? I don’t understand you Americans, everything has to be politically correct. What’s wrong if we say it’s highly unlikely that Trae will be ever near Luka, but he will still be very good player?

Luka is very skilled, but the difference maker is, that he’s very skilled 6’8”, 230 guy. Nobody would have talked about Luka like that, if he was 6’1”. Hawks just didn’t understand how important combinations is his skills and his size. Trae can be good, but he cannot do half of things Luka can, because he’s undersized guard.

You have asked me this question before on the Hawks board, I answered your question with about 5 highly detailed posts and you continue to spam my posts. Put me on ignore. In fact, I'll do the honors blocking you Image


Yes talking about facts is very unpopular in this board. On the other hand talking about vivid imagination aka. ceiling is very popular.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1495 » by King Ken » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:05 pm

burek3 wrote:
King Ken wrote:He is the most talented player we have ever drafted


I believe that outside of Luka, the most talented player ever drafted by Hawks was Pau Gasol.
At #3.
Traded on draft day to Memphis.

That's a funny "coincidence" if I ever saw one.

lol, I mean, if we gonna use that, meaning guys who never played for us but was selected to be traded I still think Trae is v. them but in reality, it would have to be Bill Russell. He is one of the GOATs. It would be him. Unquestionably him.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1496 » by burek3 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:07 pm

King Ken wrote:
burek3 wrote:
King Ken wrote:He is the most talented player we have ever drafted


I believe that outside of Luka, the most talented player ever drafted by Hawks was Pau Gasol.
At #3.
Traded on draft day to Memphis.

That's a funny "coincidence" if I ever saw one.

lol, I mean, if we gonna use that, meaning guys who never played for us but was selected to be traded I still think Trae is v. them but in reality, it would have to be Bill Russell. He is one of the GOATs. It would be him. Unquestionably him.


Yea, I messed with ya a bit :P
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1497 » by gh123 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:49 pm

burek3 wrote:
King Ken wrote:He is the most talented player we have ever drafted


I believe that outside of Luka, the most talented player ever drafted by Hawks was Pau Gasol.
At #3.
Traded on draft day to Memphis.

That's a funny "coincidence" if I ever saw one.


What? I never knew Atlanta selected Pau. Whom did they trade him for?
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1498 » by burek3 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:51 pm

gh123 wrote:
burek3 wrote:
King Ken wrote:He is the most talented player we have ever drafted


I believe that outside of Luka, the most talented player ever drafted by Hawks was Pau Gasol.
At #3.
Traded on draft day to Memphis.

That's a funny "coincidence" if I ever saw one.


What? I never knew Atlanta selected Pau. Whom did they trade him for?


Shareef Abdur-Rahim
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1499 » by gh123 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:56 pm

burek3 wrote:
gh123 wrote:
burek3 wrote:
I believe that outside of Luka, the most talented player ever drafted by Hawks was Pau Gasol.
At #3.
Traded on draft day to Memphis.

That's a funny "coincidence" if I ever saw one.


What? I never knew Atlanta selected Pau. Whom did they trade him for?


Shareef Abdur-Rahim


Right, I remember that. Shareef was pretty good back than though.
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Re: 2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2) 

Post#1500 » by TheBonzaiEffect » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:11 pm

Are you kidding me with this kid? The vision, playmaking, and shot creation is insane.

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