2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[Saberestar]

I want to say that I am impressed with the way Doncic has played for the last couple of weeks and overall his rookie season. Amazing performances recently and he looks a franchise player for years to come. Great for the Mavs.

I want to give props to Bob8 who nailed his prediction about Doncic's play in the NBA. It's good to give some recognition to posters when is deserved.

[Mr B]

He is the most talented player we have ever drafted

I believe that outside of Luka, the most talented player ever drafted by Hawks was Pau Gasol.
At #3.
Traded on draft day to Memphis.

That's a funny "coincidence" if I ever saw one.

Does the Human Highlight Reel mean anything to you? Dominique Wilkins should be in the HOF. Dude was AMAZING! I know he wasn’t technically drafted by the Hawks but then neither was Trae Young.

[mixerball]

I want to say that I am impressed with the way Doncic has played for the last couple of weeks and overall his rookie season. Amazing performances recently and he looks a franchise player for years to come. Great for the Mavs.

I want to give props to Bob8 who nailed his prediction about Doncic's play in the NBA. It's good to give some recognition to posters when is deserved.

cmon man, dont feed him.

[TheBonzaiEffect]

Luka now up to a 3.2 BPM and 1.7 VORP.

Another thing to note, DSJ was out last night. With DSJ out, Luka has carte blanche to act as the sole creator, a la Harden. I think the Mavs are ultimately going to have to move DSJ. I still like him, but he's not a good fit.

[Clyde Frazier]

Read on Twitter

[LKN]

Luka with another great game.

Still surprised he is shooting poorly from the FT line. He's now down to 71% and I expected him to shoot close to 80%.

Anyways, I'm starting to believe he has a case for the last forward position for the all star game. He'd be competing with the likes of Tobias Harris, Danilo Gallinari, Steven Adams.

Considering the fans want him in the game, I don't see why he shouldn't make it over those guys. I think he belongs, he's in that tier of a player.

I think some of the FT stuff may be conditioning. The NBA schedule is long and demanding (even though Doncic has pro experience I think the NBA is more demanding conditioning wise.

[LKN]

So far Doncic has been all that was advertised if not even better. Setting aside the stats (which are pretty impressive), he just passes the eye test.... he has "it". He looks totally smooth and controlled in high pressure situations and seems to always keep the defense off balance. I know it's early; but he really does look like a hall of fame/generational talent. He certainly doesn't look athletically over-matched (raw athleticism is somewhat over-rated anyways), which many were concerned about. Doncic seems to be able to get to where he wants on the floor and get a shot or pass off whenever he needs to... and that's all the really matters (he's deceptively quick and really good and varying his pace). If he really dedicates himself to a proper diet and conditioning the sky is the limit.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Going to average 24-8-7 on a rookie contract at some stage.

His shot creation and 3PT% has surprised to the upside compared to his European output.

If Ayton turns out to be the 2nd best player in the draft that's still a very good outcome for a no.1 pick.

[Dundalis]

Luka now up to a 3.2 BPM and 1.7 VORP.

Another thing to note, DSJ was out last night. With DSJ out, Luka has carte blanche to act as the sole creator, a la Harden. I think the Mavs are ultimately going to have to move DSJ. I still like him, but he's not a good fit.

I think it's actually partly the fact that Rick is taking Luka out earlier in the first in order to give him more playing time with the second unit. With Barea out, I think that should continue with Luka the primary ball handler, which will give him the most freedom since he won't have to cater at all to any of the other vets.

[Young gun 6]

15 points, 10 rebounds and 3 blocks for Ayton in 18 minutes with 0 fouls, 0 turnovers and +11 and awesome defense today.

The whole team is playing well defensively.

[Golden Knight]

Watch on YouTube

From 102 with 6 minutes remaining, he scored or assisted 15 consecutive Dallas points including a personal 7-0 scoring run.

assist on Barnes 3
midrange
assist on Brunson 3
one-hander
dunk
pull-up 3

[spanishninja]

i'm conceding roty to Luka, but Ayton not-a-scrub alert: 20/12/3 bouncing back quite nicely.

[Goudelock]

15 points, 10 rebounds and 3 blocks for Ayton in 18 minutes with 0 fouls, 0 turnovers and +11 and awesome defense today.

The whole team is playing well defensively.

If Phoenix doesn't get him a real point guard, that would be a crime against basketball.

[Young gun 6]

15 points, 10 rebounds and 3 blocks for Ayton in 18 minutes with 0 fouls, 0 turnovers and +11 and awesome defense today.

The whole team is playing well defensively.

If Phoenix doesn't get him a real point guard, that would be a crime against basketball.

When Josh Jackson is the best passer and facilitator to Ayton, something is wrong.

[spanishninja]

yeah it's too late to make a difference now but the deck was stacked against Ayton from the getgo.

[Wilber85]

I am wondering why y'all are alway's saying one or the other, and can't give credit where its deserved.

Doncic obviously has the bigger role, and the reigns to do what he wants in Dallas. He is having an amazing rookie year.

Ayton is having an amazing rookie year as well, without a PG.

Both are going to have good careers, and Doncic has made me put my foot in my mouth. I didn't think he would have this much of an impact.

[Squigglepuffin]

With every game that goes by it just more and more undeniable how bad a trade the Hawks made on draft night. I can understand, and could understand at the time it happened, why the Suns picked Ayton. It can be justified so I can't really give them crap. I can understand, and could understand at the time it happened, why the Kings picked Bagley. It can be justified so I can't really give them crap. I think he'll end up being very good. I just cannot for the life of me find a way to justify Trae Young + a pick that at best will be #6 for Luka Doncic.

Even at the time it was painfully obvious to me and a lot of people that there was a significant gap in talent between Trae and Luka - at the time and projecting into the future. I even remember a lot of people surprised to see Trae picked at high as #5. Some had him as low as #10 or even lower.

I mean maybe the Mavs end up giving the Hawks the #9 pick, and the Hawks end up with the #3 pick and they can trade up to #2 to get RJ Barrett if you're really, really lucky it all works out that good (because no ones trading Zion for that). On the flipside the way the draft lottery works from this year forward, with the percentages at each spot all different and now more than ever the draft lottery is more unpredictable than ever, what happens if Dallas leapfrogs into the top 3?

I mean, wow, Luka is just sticking it to everybody. With every game that goes by the Hawks GM must be kicking himself. He seems to have tried to replicate the Tatum + Sac pick Boston did the year before but this time it backfired badly.

If the Hawks get the #1 pick, AND the #9 pick, and Trae, then the trade looks to be more even and can well be justified because of Zion. But RJ Barrett, Trae Young and the #9 pick in an undeniably weak draft class - I would give all that up to get Luka in a Hawks uniform. At this point though it looks to be one of the worst draft night trades ever, up there with the Celtics, Brooklyn Nets deal.

With every game that goes by that trade looks worse and worse.

Meh

We are happy with Trae Young. He is the most talented player we have ever drafted and he is our player that makes it possible we can win any game we play. His ability to put pressure on a defense is Zeke like if not better for a rookie PG.

Look, we are happy for Luka. Maybe one of the most skilled players ever and polished af. We are more happy for Trae. He is on a team where being NBA contenders is something that will come sooner than later and he will be our face of franchise.

We think Trae could be one of the best players in the NBA once he is polished. There is a chance he could be better than Luka. There is a chance that he will never be better. Guess what, it's not life or death that he is. His job isn't valued in how he compares to Luka. It's based on how he does on the Atlanta Hawks.

So save your Luka stan piece for someone else

You have rose coloured glasses on. It happens to fans of every team with their own teams players where they overrate them.

One of the best players in the NBA? So a top 20 player? No he won't be. I would love him to be, I have nothing against him and I wish him the best, but he just won't be. There's more of a chance that Ben Simmons develops a reliable jumpshot than Trae Young being a top 20 player in the NBA (one of the best players in the NBA).

I mean it's pretty obvious that it would seem that Dominique would be the most talented player the Hawks ever drafted, but then again, they didn't draft him, they traded for him. Atlanta didn't actually draft Trae Young. Atlanta drafted Doncic and traded him to the Mavs. The most talented player the Hawks ever drafted was Pau Gasol. They then traded him. You could easily make the case just off this one season alone that Doncic is the most talented player the Hawks ever drafted... but using your own logic to exclude Dominique as a draft pick, if Trae is the most talented rookie to ever play for the Hawks, you yourself are ruling out the multiple time all-star Al Horford.

Saying Trae Young is more talented than Al Horford as a rookie is ridiculous. Yes, compared to Horford on the surface it looks like Trae puts up better numbers, but then taking into account the massive green light Trae has to shoot, comparing their FGA to FG made, and then looking at the advanced stats which clearly, clearly favour Horford beyond any reasonable doubt - it's obvious Horford was a better rookie. You have rose coloured glasses on.

You actually said being NBA contenders will come sooner rather than later? Really? REALLY? ANYONE who doesn't have rose coloured glasses on, anyone who is being completely objective will tell you that it takes at least 5 years to build a contender from the ground up. Assuming everything goes amazingly well for the Hawks, they are at the very least 5 years away from being a contender. That is later. That is not sooner by any stretch of the imagination... again - that is assuming everything goes perfectly well for the Hawks.

Be objective. Stop being a Hawks fan for just a minute and look at things objectively, like everyone without any bias, or emotional attachment to the Hawks will look at the situation. You know in your heart of hearts Trae is very, very highly unlikely to ever be as good as Doncic. The only chance is if Doncic suffers a career altering injury like Gordon Hayward did.

Lastly, you are right. Trae's job doesn't depend on how he compares to Luka's. Trae can be a good point guard in the NBA. He can be a key piece in a championship team if he lives up to his potential, but the point I was making initially had less to do with Trae Young himself but more to do with the Hawks GM, who made a terrible decision that anyone who has no emotional attachment to the Hawks will agree with. Anyone that isn't a Hawks fan will see it in a much more objective way - if the Hawks GM could redo draft night knowing what he knows now there is zero chance he makes that trade again.

That was my point. I wasn't attacking Trae Young. I was simply saying there is a noticeable difference in the talent between the two players, there was on draft night, and the Hawks GM made a terrible decision that looks worse and worse by the game. Disagree with me. I expect you too. You have rose coloured glasses on whether you realise it or not. It happens to fans of every team who often overvalue average players on their own team. Name a team - any team - and their fans often do it. It happens

[Riko]

15 points, 10 rebounds and 3 blocks for Ayton in 18 minutes with 0 fouls, 0 turnovers and +11 and awesome defense today.

The whole team is playing well defensively.

Yeah, suns play good perimeter defense tonight.
That plus denver horrible shooting night really helps ayton shine.

He impress me more this game than last time when he score a lot but he was horrible in everything else

Btw oubre is a good player, what are suns plans for him?

[Oscar9992]

Ayton is ROY calibre player & would have been a favourite to win that award...

But Doncic exists & he is too good.

[Promezclan]

15 points, 10 rebounds and 3 blocks for Ayton in 18 minutes with 0 fouls, 0 turnovers and +11 and awesome defense today.

The whole team is playing well defensively.

Yeah, suns play good perimeter defense tonight.
That plus denver horrible shooting night really helps ayton shine.

He impress me more this game than last time when he score a lot but he was horrible in everything else

Btw oubre is a good player, what are suns plans for him?

Ayton is a beast.
Oubre, on the other hand, has never shown anything much in 4 seasons - wouldn't get too excited by one game.