Mavericks Discussing Dennis Smith Jr. Trade With Suns, Magic

[BlueSan]

Guys Orlando is not giving Gordon if anything they are giving exactly Fournier + Isaac for DSJ + Wes

And Idk about you guys, but I would not be ok with that

[ejs78]

Please no Fournier unless we get a pick/Isaac

https://247sports.com/nba/mavericks/Article/A-Boiling-Pot-The-latest-in-Dennis-Smith-Jr-trade-talk-live-from-Mavs-HQ-127869760/Amp/?__twitter_impression=true

[DJ_3_Ball]

The trade will probably be Dennis for Bamba as they both sat out the past three games. I figure the teams are just negotiating the secondary pieces of the deal at this point.

Bamba has BUST written all over him. He has a very low motor. If Bamba's IQ is in the 99th percentile, his motor is in the 1st percentile. They're equally as polarizing. Plus, he has the lower body strength of a giraffe.

He has definite upside too, but I'm not a fan.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Guys Orlando is not giving Gordon if anything they are giving exactly Fournier + Isaac for DSJ + Wes

And Idk about you guys, but I would not be ok with that

Jonathan Isaac is the next best thing, if you cannot have Jaren Jackson Jr on your team. Isaac is 6-10 but has the lateral quickness to jump out onto the perimeter and stay with guards. He has the recovery speed to flash the high side of a PnR and still recover to the big. It's really only Jaren Jackson Jr and Isaac who can do that at their size.

There's a lot of risk involved with Isaac. He has the same lower body concerns Bamba has. He's been injury prone, etc. But, the folks who love Jonathan Isaac, love him for the rare defensive abilities he possesses.

[DJ_3_Ball]

I don’t get some of you. He may develop. He may not. One thing is a certain—he can’t share the floor with Luka because of spacing. The Mavs are doing the right thing. You build around your best piece and cut or trade other pieces who aren’t on board with it.

DSJ in college was a guy who could fill up the box score by driving or shooting. In the NBA, he’s been injury prone and has shown a very low basketball IQ. He just doesn’t get to the rim like he did in college and his shooting is average at best.

This is a very well thought-out and well-written post. While I don't agree with the notion of moving DSJ at this early point in his career, I can't disagree with anything you said.

I think the problem I have is just the principle of the matter. I'll use this analogy as an example. Let's say Arizona makes it to the Big Dance this year, and you place a wager on them to win it all in March Madness. Let's say you pay $100 on a 50-1 pay out. Let's say Arizona makes it to the Elite 8 where they next go up vs Duke. Your buddy says, "Hey I'll buy that Arizona ticket from you for $50".

You might be tempted to get out of your wager because Arizona is unlikely to beat Duke, but your ticket has increased from 2% odds to 12.5% odds. You'd be a damn fool to sell that ticket for half your return. Even with the Wildcats being an underdog vs Duke (and probably anyone else they would play in the Final 4 and Championship game), they'd at least retain double your initial value.

That's the principle I can't get away from in my mind. The Mavs drafted a 19 year old, college freshman with an injury history. He could of been a total bust, but he's not. He can play this game. His value has increased from the 2017 draft, and yet, the Mavs want to move him at a time they are almost certainly going to receive less value for him than he had on draft night. It's just the exact opposite direction you want to go in terms of extracting value from your assets. The exact opposite direction.

[Lowtech801]

I don’t get some of you. He may develop. He may not. One thing is a certain—he can’t share the floor with Luka because of spacing. The Mavs are doing the right thing. You build around your best piece and cut or trade other pieces who aren’t on board with it.

DSJ in college was a guy who could fill up the box score by driving or shooting. In the NBA, he’s been injury prone and has shown a very low basketball IQ. He just doesn’t get to the rim like he did in college and his shooting is average at best.

This is a very well thought-out and well-written post. While I don't agree with the notion of moving DSJ at this early point in his career, I can't disagree with anything you said.

I think the problem I have is just the principle of the matter. I'll use this analogy as an example. Let's say Arizona makes it to the Big Dance this year, and you place a wager on them to win it all in March Madness. Let's say you pay $100 on a 50-1 pay out. Let's say Arizona makes it to the Elite 8 where they next go up vs Duke. Your buddy says, "Hey I'll buy that Arizona ticket from you for $50".

You might be tempted to get out of your wager because Arizona is unlikely to beat Duke, but your ticket has increased from 2% odds to 12.5% odds. You'd be a damn fool to sell that ticket for half your return. Even with the Wildcats being an underdog vs Duke (and probably anyone else they would play in the Final 4 and Championship game), they'd at least retain double your initial value.

That's the principle I can't get away from in my mind. The Mavs drafted a 19 year old, college freshman with an injury history. He could of been a total bust, but he's not. He can play this game. His value has increased from the 2017 draft, and yet, the Mavs want to move him at a time they are almost certainly going to receive less value for him than he had on draft night. It's just the exact opposite direction you want to go in terms of extracting value from your assets. The exact opposite direction.

Yes but the mavs also didn't know they'd be getting Luka the following year. But the analogy is wrong. Lets say your friend also put $100wager on a different team thats also in the elite 8 but a team thats not quite as good. Then he offered you $50 to trade wagers. That would be a better analogy.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[LIENT]

I still think it’s too soon to give up on DSJ and Luka. If the trade involves anybody other than Vuc or Booker, I’m not gonna be happy. Outside of those two I don’t rate anybody on the Magic or Suns list above DSJ except for maybe Aaron Gordon, but I don’t see how he fits. If we are going to play Luka at point then we need a SG that can S H O O T.

[magicmouse]

I still think it’s too soon to give up on DSJ and Luka. If the trade involves anybody other than Vuc or Booker, I’m not gonna be happy. Outside of those two I don’t rate anybody on the Magic or Suns list above DSJ except for maybe Aaron Gordon, but I don’t see how he fits. If we are going to play Luka at point then we need a SG that can S H O O T.

There is a guy name ROSS out there....

[Rn5ho]

Apparently DSJ requested a trade.. not sure what the source is, but that's reported by Slovenian NBA page on FB where they are citing that DSJ wants to lead his own team and be THE man and he believes that RC is neglecting him in favor of Brunson and Luka. Not sure how reliable it is, but it does make sense..

[fuller4379]

My concern with Bamba is that he is going to be Noel 2.0.

[Archx]

Apparently DSJ requested a trade.. not sure what the source is, but that's reported by Slovenian NBA page on FB where they are citing that DSJ wants to lead his own team and be THE man and he believes that RC is neglecting him in favor of Brunson and Luka. Not sure how reliable it is, but it does make sense..

They wrote like that just for clicks .. They basically copied what Mike Fisher said. But yea you could interpret it like DSJ demanded a trade since he sent a word via his agent that he won't practice or that he is sick. That's kinda odd.

[magicmouse]

My concern with Bamba is that he is going to be Noel 2.0.

Bamba is a intelligent individual who really put the works to become a better player. He is a decent 3 point shooter. He has struggle lately with his shots,yes, but as a rookie he will become a better down the road. I dont see NOEL in Bamba.I see more of a Capela with a 3 point shot.
I honestly, dont want the DSJ for Bamba trade. I value Bamba a great deal and it seems as DSJ is a headcase

[Captain_Obvious]

Before anything happens this will probably be a 100+ page thread

[2011Champs]

Before anything happens this will probably be a 100+ page thread

It will probably drag on until the very last minute of the trade deadline.

[Captain_Obvious]

Before anything happens this will probably be a 100+ page thread

It will probably drag on until the very last minute of the trade deadline.

And that would really mess with our team and become a distraction. If Bamba was on the table, I'd have taken that no question.

[DJ_3_Ball]

My concern with Bamba is that he is going to be Noel 2.0.

Noel played with energy, at least. Granted it was before & after hot dog runs to the media room, but he did play with some energy.

If you haven't seen it this is a great article on Bamba written last January while he was at Texas. Very fair look at both the upside & drawbacks to Bamba's game.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/1/22/16917558/texas-mohamed-bamba-2018-nba-draft

If you scroll about half way down and see the tweet from Jonathan Wasserman, you'll see a highlight package of what Kevin O'Connor calls Bamba on cruise control while other players are sprinting. I haven't seen any Magic games this year outside of their game with the Mavs, but I still can't get past those low effort plays from Bamba. If there's anything I can't tolerate from a player, it's not giving full effort.

[MagicFan101]

Before anything happens this will probably be a 100+ page thread

Pssshh, the Orlando thread covering this is already 18 pages. Dallas is only at 3!

As a Dallas (Plano) resident, an Orlando native and a lifelong Magic fan I am extremely interested in this move.

I love Johnathan Isaac. He hasn’t put it all together offensively yet but holy hell this kid is going to be a first team defender if he stays healthy. Yes, that is a question mark. But DSjr also has question marks to pair with his exciting potential.

Isaac for DSjr in a straight up swap makes a lot of sense for both sides.

Luka needs a Robin not a ball dominant wannabe star.

Orlando needs a dominant PG.

Just makes too much sense.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Yes but the mavs also didn't know they'd be getting Luka the following year. But the analogy is wrong. Lets say your friend also put $100wager on a different team thats also in the elite 8 but a team thats not quite as good. Then he offered you $50 to trade wagers. That would be a better analogy.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Without getting into the boring details of the odds... Let's draw parallels.

Can we agree DSJ has been a pleasant surprise, on the court, since 2017 draft night? I don't think he's gone well over expectations. But, I think there was some fear he was going to have trouble at the next level. He looks like an NBA player. Malik Monk on the other hand or Frank Ntilikina... I could see both of them being out of the league in 5 years.

So, DSJ at the very least has retained the value the Mavs had with the 9th overall pick, in my mind.

If you're saying Mo Bamba or another asset represent the different team in the Elite 8 but not as good, then I can see what you're saying i.e. You saying I like at this as DSJ for lesser value asset & I don't like it, when it's DSJ for lesser value asset + something else.

My thought process in trades like this is basketball is a game of getting the 5 best players on the court that you can. It's not like football where getting spread thin can hurt you. I think the Dallas Cowboys did that a lot in the 2000s. From 1-10 on their roster they might of been the best team in the NFL and from 35-53, they were the worst in the NFL by a wide margin.

This is why I have no problem with the trade for Luka & I wouldn't have a problem had they had to give up an additional 1st round pick too. Until you have that #1 lead dog, can truly be mentioned about the top 10 players in the league, you're not winning any titles. You have no shot. The Toronto Raptors tried the have the best bench in the league model for the last several years & it led to great regular season team, poor postseason team.

If I'm trading DSJ, then I want a player who represents more value than the 9th overall pick of the 2017 draft i.e. Jonathan Isaac (the #6 pick from that draft). I'd rather be the team with the something else on my side of the equation to get something better than the team trading for multiple pieces. I want the best player out of the deal.

I really think when the Mavs trade DSJ, with his current market value, they're going to be giving away the best player in the deal & not getting the best player back. That's insane to me, when DSJ's value has gone up since 2017 draft night.

I don't know if I can explain that any better. It'd be like dumping your girlfriend for a chick who's a little fatter, a little uglier, and who talks more. It'd be like going to the gym 4 times a week for 6 months to get in shape, so you can attract a new girlfriend & then dumping your girlfriend for the chick who is a little fatter, a little uglier, and who talks more. It just makes no logical sense whatsoever. It only makes sense to appease DSJ or Carlisle or whoever because their feelings are hurt. Who cares? This is professional sports. No one said you had to like each other.

[DJ_3_Ball]

Before anything happens this will probably be a 100+ page thread

Pssshh, the Orlando thread covering this is already 18 pages. Dallas is only at 3!

As a Dallas (Plano) resident, an Orlando native and a lifelong Magic fan I am extremely interested in this move.

I love Johnathan Isaac. He hasn’t put it all together offensively yet but holy hell this kid is going to be a first team defender if he stays healthy. Yes, that is a question mark. But DSjr also has question marks to pair with his exciting potential.

Isaac for DSjr in a straight up swap makes a lot of sense for both sides.

Luka needs a Robin not a ball dominant wannabe star.

Orlando needs a dominant PG.

Just makes too much sense.

From your lips to God's ears my friend. Gave you the And 1 for the Isaac first team all defense comment, which I believe he will be.

[Teffer10]

Guys Orlando is not giving Gordon if anything they are giving exactly Fournier + Isaac for DSJ + Wes

And Idk about you guys, but I would not be ok with that

I would do that deal.
That deal would address several issues.

- JI is DSJ's age so we aren't losing youth in the deal...in fact we are gaining with Fourier being 5 years younger than Wes.
- We have a defender and a player with legit PF height who would fit nice with DJ.
- We'd still be in win-now mode but with an upside.
- Fourier is probably better than anyone we would sign in FA.
- Fourier is same age group with Barnes/Maxi/DFS.
- Both are better fits with Luka.

I think that is a no-brainer for us but no way does Orlando give that up for DSJ/Wes.