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2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.)

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Total votes: 42

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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1821 » by blueNorange » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:01 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
blueNorange wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:i defended burke when he was balling. now do you have any receipts of what you are talking about or nah mr trump?

burke balled out all of last season compared to you, yes or no?

lol avoiding the question once again. quote me once you got the receipts mr trump. until then

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last season trey burke balled out, right? so all of last season and heading into the offseason you were dead set on burke being the starting pg, right?

btw these are rhetorical questions, because it's funny how you're acting as if you didn't defend burke and wanted him to be the teams starting pg when everyone knows the deal.

"he could be our chauncy billups"
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1822 » by blueNorange » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:04 pm

also 3tohead asking me for receipts, you're the one that has to defend yourself on this -- you go find the receipts

you're the one saying you never thought of burke as the teams future pg, you're the one that has to moonwalk your way out of this.

i ain't got to prove jack to you because, again, everyone on this site knows how much you liked and defended trey burke.
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1823 » by Greenie » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:07 pm

What is wrong with defending Burke when he was playing well?
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1824 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:11 pm

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looks like someone hit the crack pipe too hard today
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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1825 » by newyorker4ever » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:19 pm

br7knicks wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Exactly. I want defense, team first PG. Dsjr is not that. He'd be a downgrade from frank, and I'm not a big frank fan yet



DSJ is D.Rose light.


Except rose played like he had a chip on his shoulder. Dsjr plays like he couldn't care less about basketball tomorrow, next year, or 5 years from now



Yeah that's part of the reason why i say D.Rose LIGHT and should say REAL LIGHT. Talking more about his playing style really. Not a great shooter but is quick in getting to the basket.
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1826 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:19 pm

Did we trade anyone yet? Leggo!
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1827 » by blueNorange » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:21 pm

Greenie wrote:What is wrong with defending Burke when he was playing well?

that's not even the point.

3tohead is trying to gaslight me by saying he never viewed burke as the solution to the knicks starting pg woes.
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1828 » by br7knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:21 pm

Greenie wrote:What is wrong with defending Burke when he was playing well?


Or criticizing when they play poorly. No one is immune or absolved, but good play should be commended when it's due.
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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1829 » by br7knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:23 pm

newyorker4ever wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:

DSJ is D.Rose light.


Except rose played like he had a chip on his shoulder. Dsjr plays like he couldn't care less about basketball tomorrow, next year, or 5 years from now



Yeah that's part of the reason why i say D.Rose LIGHT and should say REAL LIGHT. Talking more about his playing style really. Not a great shooter but is quick in getting to the basket.


I know what you mean. I see a similar style. See similar style with Burke. Burke doesn't come with same poor attitude. Knicks just got rose when he was at his worst... Go figure. Typical knicks
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1830 » by Capn'O » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:23 pm

Many of you all still aren't getting it. Talking about Frank v. DSjr misses the forest for the trees. As we currently stand, it will be nearly impossible to sign Durant for the money he would require without having very little left.

Using the Capulator I made the following year end adjustments to the team:

RED used for moves that the capulator hasn't already accounted for by in season moves

1. Renounced $ 1,512,601 2018-19 cap hold for Jarrett Jack
2. Renounced $ 838,464 2018-19 cap hold for Isaiah Hicks

3. Renounced $ 27,933,771 2019-20 cap hold for Enes Kanter
4. Renounced $ 12,883,440 2019-20 cap hold for Emmanuel Mudiay
5. Accepted Frank Ntilikina's 2019-20 team option worth $ 4,855,800
6. Waived Lance Thomas in 2019-20 with $ 1,000,000 remaining over 1 year(s)
7. Renounced $ 8,634,360 2019-20 cap hold for Ron Baker
8. Renounced $ 1,603,638 2019-20 cap hold for Trey Burke
9. Renounced $ 7,800,000 2019-20 cap hold for Mario Hezonja


Leaving us with:

Hardaway: $18,150,000
Lee: $12,759,670
Frank (option picked up): $4,855,800
Knox: $4,380,120
Dot: $1,618,520
Mitch: $1,559,712
KP (Cap Hold): $17,091,162
Vonleh (Cap Hold): $1,618,486
Kornet (Cap Hold): $2,024,075

PICK 3 (give or take): $7,758,000

And minimum roster fees, which amount to about 1.8 mil.

That leaves us with a total committed salary of $81,025,068 or $26,974,932 on the books


So - keeping options open on a bare minimum of players puts us in a position where we don't have the cash for Durant. OF COURSE, you renounce guys like Kornet, Vonleh, Dot, or maybe even Frank to get the money to sign a guy like that but it leaves us with very little left to work with, especially once you resign KP.

Move Hardaway, and even if you can't secure two maxes you have a LOT more flexibility to make decisions on the guys currently on our roster, other available free agents, AND you have room for that one max.

A move like this is about so much more than Frank or DSjr. It's the whole enchilada of whether we can build a team around a star core. If we have it on good info that he wants to come, the Knicks need to do some work to prepare for it. It's not a question of Frank vs. DSjr. It's a question of whether you want to be able to sign Durant and flexibility to sign other pieces. And yes, we would also have DSjr.




That said, I don't touch it if we don't have REALLY good info about Durant (or Kawhi, for that matter). If we're pulling it out of our asses and he doesn't come, then yes the trade is mostly a big waste of our time.
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1831 » by Greenie » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:24 pm

br7knicks wrote:
Greenie wrote:What is wrong with defending Burke when he was playing well?


Or criticizing when they play poorly. No one is immune or absolved, but good play should be commended when it's due.

Agreed
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1832 » by Greenie » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:26 pm

Capn'O wrote:Many of you all still aren't getting it. Talking about Frank v. DSjr misses the forest for the trees. As we currently stand, it will be nearly impossible to sign Durant for the money he would require without having very little left.

Using the Capulator I made the following year end adjustments to the team:

RED used for moves that the capulator hasn't already accounted for by in season moves

1. Renounced $ 1,512,601 2018-19 cap hold for Jarrett Jack
2. Renounced $ 838,464 2018-19 cap hold for Isaiah Hicks

3. Renounced $ 27,933,771 2019-20 cap hold for Enes Kanter
4. Renounced $ 12,883,440 2019-20 cap hold for Emmanuel Mudiay
5. Accepted Frank Ntilikina's 2019-20 team option worth $ 4,855,800
6. Waived Lance Thomas in 2019-20 with $ 1,000,000 remaining over 1 year(s)
7. Renounced $ 8,634,360 2019-20 cap hold for Ron Baker
8. Renounced $ 1,603,638 2019-20 cap hold for Trey Burke
9. Renounced $ 7,800,000 2019-20 cap hold for Mario Hezonja


Leaving us with:
Hardaway: $18,150,000
Lee: $12,759,670
Frank (option picked up): $4,855,800
Knox: $4,380,120
Dot: $1,618,520
Mitch: $1,559,712
KP (Cap Hold): $17,091,162
Vonleh (Cap Hold): $1,618,486
Kornet (Cap Hold): $2,024,075

PICK 3 (give or take): $7,758,000

And minimum roster fees, which amount to about 1.8 mil.

That leaves us with a total committed salary of $81,025,068 or $26,974,932 on the books

So - keeping options open on a bare minimum of players puts us in a position where we don't have the cash for Durant. OF COURSE, you renounce guys like Kornet, Vonleh, Dot, or maybe even Frank to get the money to sign a guy like that but it leaves us with very little left to work with, especially once you resign KP.

Move Hardaway, and even if you can't secure two maxes you have a LOT more flexibility to make decisions on the guys currently on our roster, other available free agents, AND you have room for that one max.

A move like this is about so much more than Frank or DSjr. It's the whole enchilada of whether we can build a team around a star core. If we have it on good info that he wants to come, the Knicks need to do some work to prepare for it. It's not a question of Frank vs. DSjr. It's a question of whether you want to be able to sign Durant and flexibility to sign other pieces. And yes, we would also have DSjr.




That said, I don't touch it if we don't have REALLY good info about Durant (or Kawhi). If we're pulling it out of our asses and he doesn't come, then yes the trade is mostly a big waste of our time.



No.

Getting rid of Timmy no matter what is a win.

Smith is also a much better fit here, with us.
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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1833 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:28 pm

br7knicks wrote:
blueNorange wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:DSJ has his issues, but he can still be a really good player. The talent is there.

Compared to Frank? They are totally different players so it’s hard to compare. I wouldn’t be surprised if either one ends up better in the end. Frank is further away at this point. DSJ still has upside though.

The Wes for Timmy part? That is a landslide and the tipping point.

knicks need a pg, not another undersized combo guard.


Exactly. I want defense, team first PG. Dsjr is not that. He'd be a downgrade from frank, and I'm not a big frank fan yet


PGs need to score, facilitate be aggressive too. It's a delicate mix that both Frank and DSJ need a lot of work on. They both have some major glaring holes. They are both young enough to improve on their holes. IMO, it doesn't make sense that one guy can improve on his flaws, and the other guy won't.
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1834 » by Capn'O » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:30 pm

Greenie wrote:No.

Getting rid of Timmy no matter what is a win.

Smith is also a much better fit here, with us.


You and I value DSjr and Frank differently.

Still, I understand the argument for doing a trade like this with no Big Max Player guarantee. I can't see an argument for not doing it if we're getting one of those players. And that's who I'm addressing.
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1835 » by Greenie » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:33 pm

Capn'O wrote:
Greenie wrote:No.

Getting rid of Timmy no matter what is a win.

Smith is also a much better fit here, with us.


You and I value DSjr and Frank differently.

Still, I understand argument for doing a trade like this with no Big Max guarantee. I can't see an argument for not doing it if we're getting one of those players. And that's who I'm addressing.



I value them around the same(would love to have them both, as you know) , but looking at fit I just like a swap of the two.

Getting rid of Timmy is my selling point though.
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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1836 » by br7knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:33 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
blueNorange wrote:knicks need a pg, not another undersized combo guard.


Exactly. I want defense, team first PG. Dsjr is not that. He'd be a downgrade from frank, and I'm not a big frank fan yet


PGs need to score, facilitate be aggressive too. It's a delicate mix that both Frank and DSJ need a lot of work on. They both have some major glaring holes. They are both young enough to improve on their holes. IMO, it doesn't make sense that one guy can improve on his flaws, and the other guy won't.


Agreed on all accounts. But as they stand today, I want defense and pass first, versus a me-first scorer.

They both can improve and need to.

I just don't get the getting rid of Timmy thing just to sign a big name FA who won't come anyway.

I get at least having that chance, but I dont think it's worth it when it won't happen. The Knicks need to continue to change their culture, mindset, and outlook on the rest of the league for the big name FA to come to NY first.
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1837 » by br7knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:34 pm

Hell, frank and Dsjr might be good next to each other.
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1838 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:37 pm

Capn'O wrote:Many of you all still aren't getting it. Talking about Frank v. DSjr misses the forest for the trees. As we currently stand, it will be nearly impossible to sign Durant for the money he would require without having very little left.

Using the Capulator I made the following year end adjustments to the team:

RED used for moves that the capulator hasn't already accounted for by in season moves

1. Renounced $ 1,512,601 2018-19 cap hold for Jarrett Jack
2. Renounced $ 838,464 2018-19 cap hold for Isaiah Hicks

3. Renounced $ 27,933,771 2019-20 cap hold for Enes Kanter
4. Renounced $ 12,883,440 2019-20 cap hold for Emmanuel Mudiay
5. Accepted Frank Ntilikina's 2019-20 team option worth $ 4,855,800
6. Waived Lance Thomas in 2019-20 with $ 1,000,000 remaining over 1 year(s)
7. Renounced $ 8,634,360 2019-20 cap hold for Ron Baker
8. Renounced $ 1,603,638 2019-20 cap hold for Trey Burke
9. Renounced $ 7,800,000 2019-20 cap hold for Mario Hezonja


Leaving us with:

Hardaway: $18,150,000
Lee: $12,759,670
Frank (option picked up): $4,855,800
Knox: $4,380,120
Dot: $1,618,520
Mitch: $1,559,712
KP (Cap Hold): $17,091,162
Vonleh (Cap Hold): $1,618,486
Kornet (Cap Hold): $2,024,075

PICK 3 (give or take): $7,758,000

And minimum roster fees, which amount to about 1.8 mil.

That leaves us with a total committed salary of $81,025,068 or $26,974,932 on the books


So - keeping options open on a bare minimum of players puts us in a position where we don't have the cash for Durant. OF COURSE, you renounce guys like Kornet, Vonleh, Dot, or maybe even Frank to get the money to sign a guy like that but it leaves us with very little left to work with, especially once you resign KP.

Move Hardaway, and even if you can't secure two maxes you have a LOT more flexibility to make decisions on the guys currently on our roster, other available free agents, AND you have room for that one max.

A move like this is about so much more than Frank or DSjr. It's the whole enchilada of whether we can build a team around a star core. If we have it on good info that he wants to come, the Knicks need to do some work to prepare for it. It's not a question of Frank vs. DSjr. It's a question of whether you want to be able to sign Durant and flexibility to sign other pieces. And yes, we would also have DSjr.




That said, I don't touch it if we don't have REALLY good info about Durant (or Kawhi, for that matter). If we're pulling it out of our asses and he doesn't come, then yes the trade is mostly a big waste of our time.


Yeah, that part makes it a no brainer.

On top of that, we would be in position to add Durant AND another big free agent....Can look to move Lee with an asset or even DSJ for the right guy
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1839 » by br7knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:37 pm

I'd rather keep collecting young assets for future FAs when KP, and others are in their prime.

Getting rid of Timmy would be great, but not just for a pipe dream.
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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1840 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:39 pm

br7knicks wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Exactly. I want defense, team first PG. Dsjr is not that. He'd be a downgrade from frank, and I'm not a big frank fan yet


PGs need to score, facilitate be aggressive too. It's a delicate mix that both Frank and DSJ need a lot of work on. They both have some major glaring holes. They are both young enough to improve on their holes. IMO, it doesn't make sense that one guy can improve on his flaws, and the other guy won't.


Agreed on all accounts. But as they stand today, I want defense and pass first, versus a me-first scorer.

They both can improve and need to.

I just don't get the getting rid of Timmy thing just to sign a big name FA who won't come anyway.

I get at least having that chance, but I dont think it's worth it when it won't happen. The Knicks need to continue to change their culture, mindset, and outlook on the rest of the league for the big name FA to come to NY first.


The same reasons you don't like DSJ, is why I want to get rid of Timmy. He's a me-first scorer, with low efficiency that doesnt play defense...except he's making a lot more money and is older (he probably is who he is). Would be harder to get rid of and its harder to build a team around him when hes making a lot of money
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