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2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.)

Moderators: j4remi, HerSports85, NoLayupRule, GONYK, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Deeeez Knicks, mpharris36

Who's Hotter?

Cap
4
10%
Mags
4
10%
KoC
3
7%
DK
1
2%
KT/FOE <--His new name sucks!
15
36%
Thugger
3
7%
GONYK
3
7%
Remi
4
10%
Moocow
4
10%
NLR
1
2%
 
Total votes: 42

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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1841 » by br7knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:48 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Capn'O wrote:Many of you all still aren't getting it. Talking about Frank v. DSjr misses the forest for the trees. As we currently stand, it will be nearly impossible to sign Durant for the money he would require without having very little left.

Using the Capulator I made the following year end adjustments to the team:

RED used for moves that the capulator hasn't already accounted for by in season moves

1. Renounced $ 1,512,601 2018-19 cap hold for Jarrett Jack
2. Renounced $ 838,464 2018-19 cap hold for Isaiah Hicks

3. Renounced $ 27,933,771 2019-20 cap hold for Enes Kanter
4. Renounced $ 12,883,440 2019-20 cap hold for Emmanuel Mudiay
5. Accepted Frank Ntilikina's 2019-20 team option worth $ 4,855,800
6. Waived Lance Thomas in 2019-20 with $ 1,000,000 remaining over 1 year(s)
7. Renounced $ 8,634,360 2019-20 cap hold for Ron Baker
8. Renounced $ 1,603,638 2019-20 cap hold for Trey Burke
9. Renounced $ 7,800,000 2019-20 cap hold for Mario Hezonja


Leaving us with:

Hardaway: $18,150,000
Lee: $12,759,670
Frank (option picked up): $4,855,800
Knox: $4,380,120
Dot: $1,618,520
Mitch: $1,559,712
KP (Cap Hold): $17,091,162
Vonleh (Cap Hold): $1,618,486
Kornet (Cap Hold): $2,024,075

PICK 3 (give or take): $7,758,000

And minimum roster fees, which amount to about 1.8 mil.

That leaves us with a total committed salary of $81,025,068 or $26,974,932 on the books


So - keeping options open on a bare minimum of players puts us in a position where we don't have the cash for Durant. OF COURSE, you renounce guys like Kornet, Vonleh, Dot, or maybe even Frank to get the money to sign a guy like that but it leaves us with very little left to work with, especially once you resign KP.

Move Hardaway, and even if you can't secure two maxes you have a LOT more flexibility to make decisions on the guys currently on our roster, other available free agents, AND you have room for that one max.

A move like this is about so much more than Frank or DSjr. It's the whole enchilada of whether we can build a team around a star core. If we have it on good info that he wants to come, the Knicks need to do some work to prepare for it. It's not a question of Frank vs. DSjr. It's a question of whether you want to be able to sign Durant and flexibility to sign other pieces. And yes, we would also have DSjr.




That said, I don't touch it if we don't have REALLY good info about Durant (or Kawhi, for that matter). If we're pulling it out of our asses and he doesn't come, then yes the trade is mostly a big waste of our time.


Yeah, that part makes it a no brainer.

On top of that, we would be in position to add Durant AND another big free agent....Can look to move Lee with an asset or even DSJ for the right guy


If they'd take more than Timmy, that's a different story
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1842 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:48 pm

i think the most intriguing part about DSJ's game to me imo is that he made a lot of strides on defense this year. he's made some huge clutch defensive plays that no one seems to be talking about. this goes back to what i said about him pre draft, when he is locked in he can be a great defender. he's flashed that a good amount of times throughout the season.
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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1843 » by br7knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:59 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
PGs need to score, facilitate be aggressive too. It's a delicate mix that both Frank and DSJ need a lot of work on. They both have some major glaring holes. They are both young enough to improve on their holes. IMO, it doesn't make sense that one guy can improve on his flaws, and the other guy won't.


Agreed on all accounts. But as they stand today, I want defense and pass first, versus a me-first scorer.

They both can improve and need to.

I just don't get the getting rid of Timmy thing just to sign a big name FA who won't come anyway.

I get at least having that chance, but I dont think it's worth it when it won't happen. The Knicks need to continue to change their culture, mindset, and outlook on the rest of the league for the big name FA to come to NY first.


The same reasons you don't like DSJ, is why I want to get rid of Timmy. He's a me-first scorer, with low efficiency that doesnt play defense...except he's making a lot more money and is older (he probably is who he is). Would be harder to get rid of and its harder to build a team around him when hes making a lot of money


I dislike him for those reasons as much as you and everyone else here. Can't stand Timmy. I'm just thinking down the road. KP is not ready to lead a team to contention yet, and kawhi/Durant aren't coming to be the leader. So I don't see the urgency to unload him yet. If it's straight up for Wes matthews, hell yeah. But I don't see that happening
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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1844 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:00 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
blueNorange wrote:it's less about trading frank and more about trading a loser of a player that the knicks always seem to end up with on their roster.


Steve Francis was enough


Good comp. The DSJr prototype!

Also, good comp, as if Frank is traded, a bunch of guys here will be hitting the crack pipe, me included.


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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1845 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:01 pm

br7knicks wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Agreed on all accounts. But as they stand today, I want defense and pass first, versus a me-first scorer.

They both can improve and need to.

I just don't get the getting rid of Timmy thing just to sign a big name FA who won't come anyway.

I get at least having that chance, but I dont think it's worth it when it won't happen. The Knicks need to continue to change their culture, mindset, and outlook on the rest of the league for the big name FA to come to NY first.


The same reasons you don't like DSJ, is why I want to get rid of Timmy. He's a me-first scorer, with low efficiency that doesnt play defense...except he's making a lot more money and is older (he probably is who he is). Would be harder to get rid of and its harder to build a team around him when hes making a lot of money


I dislike him for those reasons as much as you and everyone else here. Can't stand Timmy. I'm just thinking down the road. KP is not ready to lead a team to contention yet, and kawhi/Durant aren't coming to be the leader. So I don't see the urgency to unload him yet. If it's straight up for Wes matthews, hell yeah. But I don't see that happening


People sell Tammy too short. He would actually fit in next to Doncic very nicely.
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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1846 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:03 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Yeah, and it should be said Perry is still cleaning up past mistakes including those of Mills. Much as I have turned on Fiz (who probably will still be a lousy play calling coach even with a strong team), much of this season is transitioning from the past into the present. Now that the trades for the crappy vets happen (or don't), it should be greenlit to play the youngest ones the rest of this season. IOW, this season was going to be messy no matter what. It really is a process year if there ever was one for the Knicks. Some guys just want instant pudding though; KD jumping out of their birthday cakes and somehow that will = voila! a ring appears! Nah


Would you give up Frank just to get rid of Tim for an expiring contract and a second round pick?


No, because I think Frank is going to be a glue guy you need to win, but if the club is going to keep playing Mudiay or goes back to playing Burke and icing out Frank, then I'd like to see Frank get a shot with a club that actually has a clue


I want to strangle Fizdale for continuing to play Mudiay. There literally no point (no pun intended) to it.
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1847 » by god shammgod » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:16 pm

do we even know if this is an actual rumor yet ?
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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1848 » by br7knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:17 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
The same reasons you don't like DSJ, is why I want to get rid of Timmy. He's a me-first scorer, with low efficiency that doesnt play defense...except he's making a lot more money and is older (he probably is who he is). Would be harder to get rid of and its harder to build a team around him when hes making a lot of money


I dislike him for those reasons as much as you and everyone else here. Can't stand Timmy. I'm just thinking down the road. KP is not ready to lead a team to contention yet, and kawhi/Durant aren't coming to be the leader. So I don't see the urgency to unload him yet. If it's straight up for Wes matthews, hell yeah. But I don't see that happening


People sell Tammy too short. He would actually fit in next to Doncic very nicely.


He'd fit any team that needs scoring or shooting, especially off the bench as long as there's a lot of defense. I just don't get why he's on the knicks
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1849 » by iLovethosedamnknicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:20 pm

br7knicks wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Capn'O wrote:Many of you all still aren't getting it. Talking about Frank v. DSjr misses the forest for the trees. As we currently stand, it will be nearly impossible to sign Durant for the money he would require without having very little left.

Using the Capulator I made the following year end adjustments to the team:

RED used for moves that the capulator hasn't already accounted for by in season moves



Leaving us with:

Hardaway: $18,150,000
Lee: $12,759,670
Frank (option picked up): $4,855,800
Knox: $4,380,120
Dot: $1,618,520
Mitch: $1,559,712
KP (Cap Hold): $17,091,162
Vonleh (Cap Hold): $1,618,486
Kornet (Cap Hold): $2,024,075

PICK 3 (give or take): $7,758,000

And minimum roster fees, which amount to about 1.8 mil.

That leaves us with a total committed salary of $81,025,068 or $26,974,932 on the books


So - keeping options open on a bare minimum of players puts us in a position where we don't have the cash for Durant. OF COURSE, you renounce guys like Kornet, Vonleh, Dot, or maybe even Frank to get the money to sign a guy like that but it leaves us with very little left to work with, especially once you resign KP.

Move Hardaway, and even if you can't secure two maxes you have a LOT more flexibility to make decisions on the guys currently on our roster, other available free agents, AND you have room for that one max.

A move like this is about so much more than Frank or DSjr. It's the whole enchilada of whether we can build a team around a star core. If we have it on good info that he wants to come, the Knicks need to do some work to prepare for it. It's not a question of Frank vs. DSjr. It's a question of whether you want to be able to sign Durant and flexibility to sign other pieces. And yes, we would also have DSjr.




That said, I don't touch it if we don't have REALLY good info about Durant (or Kawhi, for that matter). If we're pulling it out of our asses and he doesn't come, then yes the trade is mostly a big waste of our time.


Yeah, that part makes it a no brainer.

On top of that, we would be in position to add Durant AND another big free agent....Can look to move Lee with an asset or even DSJ for the right guy


If they'd take more than Timmy, that's a different story



?
if we make that trade and we trade lee and thomas for expiring. could we sign two guys?
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1850 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:27 pm

iLovethosedamnknicks wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Yeah, that part makes it a no brainer.

On top of that, we would be in position to add Durant AND another big free agent....Can look to move Lee with an asset or even DSJ for the right guy


If they'd take more than Timmy, that's a different story


?
if we make that trade and we trade lee and thomas for expiring. could we sign two guys?


That depends. Which two guys are you referring to?
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1851 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:32 pm

iLovethosedamnknicks wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Yeah, that part makes it a no brainer.

On top of that, we would be in position to add Durant AND another big free agent....Can look to move Lee with an asset or even DSJ for the right guy


If they'd take more than Timmy, that's a different story



?
if we make that trade and we trade lee and thomas for expiring. could we sign two guys?


Depends where we pick. If we move Lee, depending on where we pick we could sign Durant and have about $26mil left. Move DSJ too and we could have about $31mil.

Say we end up picking 5th, I think we would have about $32.8 mil.

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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1852 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:33 pm

god shammgod wrote:do we even know if this is an actual rumor yet ?


I think he stole it from Bleacher Report who stole it from Bill Simmons who were both just making hypothetical trades.
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1853 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:33 pm

god shammgod wrote:do we even know if this is an actual rumor yet ?


No, why? :lol:
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1854 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:34 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
god shammgod wrote:do we even know if this is an actual rumor yet ?


I think he stole it from Bleacher Report who stole it from Bill Simmons who were both just making hypothetical trades.


This is the Seinfeld thread of the Knicks forum. A thread about nothing.
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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1855 » by TBri1974 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:55 pm

br7knicks wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Agreed on all accounts. But as they stand today, I want defense and pass first, versus a me-first scorer.

They both can improve and need to.

I just don't get the getting rid of Timmy thing just to sign a big name FA who won't come anyway.

I get at least having that chance, but I dont think it's worth it when it won't happen. The Knicks need to continue to change their culture, mindset, and outlook on the rest of the league for the big name FA to come to NY first.


The same reasons you don't like DSJ, is why I want to get rid of Timmy. He's a me-first scorer, with low efficiency that doesnt play defense...except he's making a lot more money and is older (he probably is who he is). Would be harder to get rid of and its harder to build a team around him when hes making a lot of money


I dislike him for those reasons as much as you and everyone else here. Can't stand Timmy. I'm just thinking down the road. KP is not ready to lead a team to contention yet, and kawhi/Durant aren't coming to be the leader. So I don't see the urgency to unload him yet. If it's straight up for Wes matthews, hell yeah. But I don't see that happening


Cap room is the main reason to unload THJ, even if it is just so we can ensure we also resign a player like Vonleh.

That being said, another big reason it to clear the way to see what we have in players like Dotson and Trier. If we don't pick 1st for the lottery, we will need to decide if we have our 2G of the future or not. And if we don't think we do, we may want to consider trading them to acquire - or move - other assets. Right now, THJ stands in the way of knowing what we really have in Dotson and Trier.
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Re: ScoopB: Knicks/Mavs have discussed Frank/THJ for DSJ/Wes 

Post#1856 » by br7knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:53 pm

TBri1974 wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
The same reasons you don't like DSJ, is why I want to get rid of Timmy. He's a me-first scorer, with low efficiency that doesnt play defense...except he's making a lot more money and is older (he probably is who he is). Would be harder to get rid of and its harder to build a team around him when hes making a lot of money


I dislike him for those reasons as much as you and everyone else here. Can't stand Timmy. I'm just thinking down the road. KP is not ready to lead a team to contention yet, and kawhi/Durant aren't coming to be the leader. So I don't see the urgency to unload him yet. If it's straight up for Wes matthews, hell yeah. But I don't see that happening


Cap room is the main reason to unload THJ, even if it is just so we can ensure we also resign a player like Vonleh.

That being said, another big reason it to clear the way to see what we have in players like Dotson and Trier. If we don't pick 1st for the lottery, we will need to decide if we have our 2G of the future or not. And if we don't think we do, we may want to consider trading them to acquire - or move - other assets. Right now, THJ stands in the way of knowing what we really have in Dotson and Trier.


I get what you're saying, but that's on fiz - although I'm sure someone higher up is saying to play Timmy. Timmy should be given a lot less minutes, and the justification is easy - he's bad at defense. Until he improves, his minutes go down
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1857 » by cuyankees » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:05 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
iLovethosedamnknicks wrote:
br7knicks wrote:
If they'd take more than Timmy, that's a different story



?
if we make that trade and we trade lee and thomas for expiring. could we sign two guys?


Depends where we pick. If we move Lee, depending on where we pick we could sign Durant and have about $26mil left. Move DSJ too and we could have about $31mil.

Say we end up picking 5th, I think we would have about $32.8 mil.

KP
Knox
Durant
Culver
Kyrie

Safe to say that if KD says "yes, but got a friend" come summer time, Pills will make 2 max slots happen by dealing "assets". Hard to turn down KD, KD's max friend, KP and whomever based on how it works mathematically.
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1858 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:14 pm

cuyankees wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
iLovethosedamnknicks wrote:

?
if we make that trade and we trade lee and thomas for expiring. could we sign two guys?


Depends where we pick. If we move Lee, depending on where we pick we could sign Durant and have about $26mil left. Move DSJ too and we could have about $31mil.

Say we end up picking 5th, I think we would have about $32.8 mil.

KP
Knox
Durant
Culver
Kyrie

Safe to say that if KD says "yes, but got a friend" come summer time, Pills will make 2 max slots happen by dealing "assets". Hard to turn down KD, KD's max friend, KP and whomever based on how it works mathematically.


Now KD is bring a friend? Beasley? :D
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1859 » by cuyankees » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:17 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
cuyankees wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Depends where we pick. If we move Lee, depending on where we pick we could sign Durant and have about $26mil left. Move DSJ too and we could have about $31mil.

Say we end up picking 5th, I think we would have about $32.8 mil.

KP
Knox
Durant
Culver
Kyrie

Safe to say that if KD says "yes, but got a friend" come summer time, Pills will make 2 max slots happen by dealing "assets". Hard to turn down KD, KD's max friend, KP and whomever based on how it works mathematically.


Now KD is bring a friend? Beasley? :D

More like a max cat friend. Haaa
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Re: 2018/2019 NBA Trade/Wishing Well Thread (Cont.) 

Post#1860 » by Newyorknick94 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:22 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Greenie wrote:I would take Rose here right about now.

You guys seem not to understand that these guards we have are trash juice.

i really like how rose adjusted his game this season too. he actually looks to pass the ball now and can hit 3's. he's having his best season in a long time. happy for him. just wish it happened when he was here in NY though

Yea I like how Drose’s good play is leading to wins for Minny they look really good right now I wish we were an 11th seed like them
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