Game 43: New Orleans Pelicans (20-23) @ Los Angeles Clippers (24-18) - 7:30 PM PT

[Galloisdaman]

I'm not thrilled by Gortat nor Bradley's play. I'm wondering where SGA went as well. But with that said its hard to totally blame Doc IMO. This team really needs a center who can rebound and defend. I also would give Wallace a shot at starting BUT I do not see a magic solution on the roster. That does not mean I would not look to tweak things a bit. Call me crazy but I might even start the teams 5 best players for a few games to see how that would go. If not all 5 maybe just put Lou in to start. I'm not saying that will be a cure all magic solution but would it hurt to experiment for 1-3 games?

The solution should not be fear of changing for a player who is having his worse year and provides nothing that’s insanity.

Jerome, Milo, Wallace, and Beverly all have a higher upside than Bradley who’s been terrible all season. That is the fault of Doc Rivers who showed his hypocrisy when he stated players that don’t play well don’t get more minutes.

I can not say if the guys you mentioned are perfect solutions but I do agree with you. If Avery is rated so low this season it makes sense for Doc to try some other players.

[esqtvd]

I'm not thrilled by Gortat nor Bradley's play. I'm wondering where SGA went as well. But with that said its hard to totally blame Doc IMO. This team really needs a center who can rebound and defend. I also would give Wallace a shot at starting BUT I do not see a magic solution on the roster. That does not mean I would not look to tweak things a bit. Call me crazy but I might even start the teams 5 best players for a few games to see how that would go. If not all 5 maybe just put Lou in to start. I'm not saying that will be a cure all magic solution but would it hurt to experiment for 1-3 games?

The solution should not be fear of changing for a player who is having his worse year and provides nothing that’s insanity.

Jerome, Milo, Wallace, and Beverly all have a higher upside than Bradley who’s been terrible all season. That is the fault of Doc Rivers who showed his hypocrisy when he stated players that don’t play well don’t get more minutes.

It's the old backup QB argument. There's no evidence Jim will be better than the struggling Joe, but so what, put him in anyway.

Since only one side is required to defend its view, the other side "wins."

[esqtvd]

Remember when you were thumping your chest and pretending you wanted SGA in the draft all along? Now he's your latest scapegoat to deflect from Doc's bad coaching.

I hate scapegoating. But it's Avery who's the latest scapegoat, and Doc before that. What I don't like is people who are busting ass to keep the ship afloat getting the blame if the boat sinks.

See what Austin's doing down there in Texas lately? Same thing he did here. Stepping up into the breach, playing exhausting minutes, and doing whatever the team needs.

The kid is alright.

Rivers at his worse was never this bad.

Since you link articles and links with data

https://www.clipsnation.com/2019/1/16/18180568/playing-avery-bradley-big-minutes-is-indefensible-clippers


Go ahead try to make excuses

Mostly I make my own arguments and provide links to the source as a courtesy.

The one link I've provided to the video defense of Avery is simply to show that SOME knowledgable people disagree with the prevailing Avery hate.


Thanks for the link. It's the prevailing narrative we've all seen dozens of places. But FTR, Avery's numbers were so bad at the beginning of the year that he'll never overcome them. If you're looking for the truth of the matter, you need to look at the last 10-15-or-20 games now that he's getting healthier.


And Austin's helping The Rockets a lot and proving the haters wrong. Since I'm a Clipper fan, I can only hope that Avery can, too. Austin never deserved the scorched earth the haters gave him.

[TheNewEra]

I'm not thrilled by Gortat nor Bradley's play. I'm wondering where SGA went as well. But with that said its hard to totally blame Doc IMO. This team really needs a center who can rebound and defend. I also would give Wallace a shot at starting BUT I do not see a magic solution on the roster. That does not mean I would not look to tweak things a bit. Call me crazy but I might even start the teams 5 best players for a few games to see how that would go. If not all 5 maybe just put Lou in to start. I'm not saying that will be a cure all magic solution but would it hurt to experiment for 1-3 games?

The solution should not be fear of changing for a player who is having his worse year and provides nothing that’s insanity.

Jerome, Milo, Wallace, and Beverly all have a higher upside than Bradley who’s been terrible all season. That is the fault of Doc Rivers who showed his hypocrisy when he stated players that don’t play well don’t get more minutes.

It's the old backup QB argument. There's no evidence Jim will be better than the struggling Joe, but so what, put him in anyway.

Since only one side is required to defend its view, the other side "wins."

Wtf Bradley’s importance on this team is nowhere near QB status. He’s the throwaway tight end on a team that may need him but would like to upgrade.

He’s having one of the worse years for a guard in the league the stats already show the other guards are better potential options. You are ignoring the actual terrible situation to avoid a hypothetical terrible situation.

[TheNewEra]

I hate scapegoating. But it's Avery who's the latest scapegoat, and Doc before that. What I don't like is people who are busting ass to keep the ship afloat getting the blame if the boat sinks.

See what Austin's doing down there in Texas lately? Same thing he did here. Stepping up into the breach, playing exhausting minutes, and doing whatever the team needs.

The kid is alright.

Rivers at his worse was never this bad.

Since you link articles and links with data

https://www.clipsnation.com/2019/1/16/18180568/playing-avery-bradley-big-minutes-is-indefensible-clippers


Go ahead try to make excuses

Mostly I make my own arguments and provide links to the source as a courtesy.

The one link I've provided to the video defense of Avery is simply to show that SOME knowledgable people disagree with the prevailing Avery hate.


Thanks for the link. It's the prevailing narrative we've all seen dozens of places. But FTR, Avery's numbers were so bad at the beginning of the year that he'll never overcome them. If you're looking for the truth of the matter, you need to look at the last 10-15-or-20 games now that he's getting healthier.


And Austin's helping The Rockets a lot and proving the haters wrong. Since I'm a Clipper fan, I can only hope that Avery can, too. Austin never deserved the scorched earth the haters gave him.

Majority of knowledgeable people are giving the statistics to let us know that Bradley is playing terrible basketball on both ends. The reason it’s not a bigger story is because the media rarely cares to give us attention. Bradley’s numbers are still bad and he’s still incredibly inconsistent not having a good game since the Kings game in December.

Austin is playing a bit better but a lot of the issues with Austin were self inflicted. He was cocky, ran his mouth to much, and his many mistakes became more highlighted because of all those things and Doc. He is helping the Rockets as of now but let’s not skip over he became toxic quickly and struggled on a Wizards team that could of used him.

[esqtvd]

The solution should not be fear of changing for a player who is having his worse year and provides nothing that’s insanity.

Jerome, Milo, Wallace, and Beverly all have a higher upside than Bradley who’s been terrible all season. That is the fault of Doc Rivers who showed his hypocrisy when he stated players that don’t play well don’t get more minutes.

It's the old backup QB argument. There's no evidence Jim will be better than the struggling Joe, but so what, put him in anyway.

Since only one side is required to defend its view, the other side "wins."

Wtf Bradley’s importance on this team is nowhere near QB status. He’s the throwaway tight end on a team that may need him but would like to upgrade.

He’s having one of the worse years for a guard in the league the stats already show the other guards are better potential options. You are ignoring the actual terrible situation to avoid a hypothetical terrible situation.

You're not supposed to take the backup QB analogy literally.



And the terrible situation is Gortat. We have proved that statistically beyond any dispute. The 4 worst combinations have Gortat in them.

Over the last 15 games, the bottom 5 two-man combos on the Clippers:

minutes-off-def-net

A. Bradley, .S. Gilgeous-Alexander 261 102.5 117.3 -14.7
M. Gortat, .D. Gallinari 207 100.0 116.7 -16.7
M. Gortat, .T. Harris 207 99.5 117.5 -17.9
M. Gortat, .A. Bradley 205 97.9 116.7 -18.7
M. Gortat, .S. Gilgeous-Alexander 180 97.9 119.9 -22.1

Trot any other guard except Lou out there and the results will likely be the same or worse. Scapegoating Avery will not change that.



Milos is a dead letter, for reasons given. Not going to happen.

Sindarius will probably be out of the NBA next year.

You could start Ty, but he has 1200 minutes of NBA experience. Shai has 1100. Starting two rookies is suicidal.

You can start Bev instead, but that will weaken the success we're having with the Lou-Pat tandem.



Everybody knows Avery's offensive numbers suck, esp if you keep factoring in the first 20 games, which were among the worst in NBA history. But the next 20 games after that tell the truer story. Still not a plus, but not nearly the disaster it can be made to appear.



The other guards and other combinations are already being tested.

vs. NOLA:

Lou 30
Avery 29
Pat 24
Ty 19
Shai 13


You can argue 5 minutes plus or minus, but the adjustments are already being made, the minutes already redistributed.

The solution should not be fear of changing for a player who is having his worse year and provides nothing that’s insanity.

Another rule in life is: Anyone who believes things can't get any worse has no imagination. We are 24-19. The team was predicted to win 34 games. A bounce or two here and there and we beat the Pels the other night. The situation is fraught, but it is not yet time to panic, to throw s#it at the wall to see what sticks.

That comes later. But if we do end up starting two rookies, it's an admission the season is over.

[Ranma]

I love how statistics and records don't matter to Doc and his apologists when the aim for the Clippers is supposedly to win. Unstattable? What's next? We're not going to measure success by wins and losses?

Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

[esqtvd]

Context is everything.

Put our second unit against NBA starting units and you will not get the same result. Play Lou and Trezz 30-35 minutes and you will not get the same result.

[Ranma]

Read on Twitter

[TheNewEra]

It's the old backup QB argument. There's no evidence Jim will be better than the struggling Joe, but so what, put him in anyway.

Since only one side is required to defend its view, the other side "wins."

Wtf Bradley’s importance on this team is nowhere near QB status. He’s the throwaway tight end on a team that may need him but would like to upgrade.

He’s having one of the worse years for a guard in the league the stats already show the other guards are better potential options. You are ignoring the actual terrible situation to avoid a hypothetical terrible situation.

You're not supposed to take the backup QB analogy literally.



And the terrible situation is Gortat. We have proved that statistically beyond any dispute. The 4 worst combinations have Gortat in them.

Over the last 15 games, the bottom 5 two-man combos on the Clippers:

minutes-off-def-net

A. Bradley, .S. Gilgeous-Alexander 261 102.5 117.3 -14.7
M. Gortat, .D. Gallinari 207 100.0 116.7 -16.7
M. Gortat, .T. Harris 207 99.5 117.5 -17.9
M. Gortat, .A. Bradley 205 97.9 116.7 -18.7
M. Gortat, .S. Gilgeous-Alexander 180 97.9 119.9 -22.1

Trot any other guard except Lou out there and the results will likely be the same or worse. Scapegoating Avery will not change that.



Milos is a dead letter, for reasons given. Not going to happen.

Sindarius will probably be out of the NBA next year.

You could start Ty, but he has 1200 minutes of NBA experience. Shai has 1100. Starting two rookies is suicidal.

You can start Bev instead, but that will weaken the success we're having with the Lou-Pat tandem.



Everybody knows Avery's offensive numbers suck, esp if you keep factoring in the first 20 games, which were among the worst in NBA history. But the next 20 games after that tell the truer story. Still not a plus, but not nearly the disaster it can be made to appear.



The other guards and other combinations are already being tested.

vs. NOLA:

Lou 30
Avery 29
Pat 24
Ty 19
Shai 13


You can argue 5 minutes plus or minus, but the adjustments are already being made, the minutes already redistributed.

The solution should not be fear of changing for a player who is having his worse year and provides nothing that’s insanity.

Another rule in life is: Anyone who believes things can't get any worse has no imagination. We are 24-19. The team was predicted to win 34 games. A bounce or two here and there and we beat the Pels the other night. The situation is fraught, but it is not yet time to panic, to throw s#it at the wall to see what sticks.

That comes later. But if we do end up starting two rookies, it's an admission the season is over.

My response to the QB analogy because it’s usually used in the context of a player of importance. No one is losing sleep if Bradley is benched and even if his replacement struggles we have like 3 other guys who have a chance to be better than nothing

[esqtvd]

Wtf Bradley’s importance on this team is nowhere near QB status. He’s the throwaway tight end on a team that may need him but would like to upgrade.

He’s having one of the worse years for a guard in the league the stats already show the other guards are better potential options. You are ignoring the actual terrible situation to avoid a hypothetical terrible situation.

You're not supposed to take the backup QB analogy literally.



And the terrible situation is Gortat. We have proved that statistically beyond any dispute. The 4 worst combinations have Gortat in them.

Over the last 15 games, the bottom 5 two-man combos on the Clippers:

minutes-off-def-net

A. Bradley, .S. Gilgeous-Alexander 261 102.5 117.3 -14.7
M. Gortat, .D. Gallinari 207 100.0 116.7 -16.7
M. Gortat, .T. Harris 207 99.5 117.5 -17.9
M. Gortat, .A. Bradley 205 97.9 116.7 -18.7
M. Gortat, .S. Gilgeous-Alexander 180 97.9 119.9 -22.1

Trot any other guard except Lou out there and the results will likely be the same or worse. Scapegoating Avery will not change that.



Milos is a dead letter, for reasons given. Not going to happen.

Sindarius will probably be out of the NBA next year.

You could start Ty, but he has 1200 minutes of NBA experience. Shai has 1100. Starting two rookies is suicidal.

You can start Bev instead, but that will weaken the success we're having with the Lou-Pat tandem.



Everybody knows Avery's offensive numbers suck, esp if you keep factoring in the first 20 games, which were among the worst in NBA history. But the next 20 games after that tell the truer story. Still not a plus, but not nearly the disaster it can be made to appear.



The other guards and other combinations are already being tested.

vs. NOLA:

Lou 30
Avery 29
Pat 24
Ty 19
Shai 13


You can argue 5 minutes plus or minus, but the adjustments are already being made, the minutes already redistributed.

The solution should not be fear of changing for a player who is having his worse year and provides nothing that’s insanity.

Another rule in life is: Anyone who believes things can't get any worse has no imagination. We are 24-19. The team was predicted to win 34 games. A bounce or two here and there and we beat the Pels the other night. The situation is fraught, but it is not yet time to panic, to throw s#it at the wall to see what sticks.

That comes later. But if we do end up starting two rookies, it's an admission the season is over.

My response to the QB analogy because it’s usually used in the context of a player of importance. No one is losing sleep if Bradley is benched and even if his replacement struggles we have like 3 other guys who have a chance to be better than nothing

It's an analogy. You're not supposed to take it literally.

The point of the analogy is that it's easy to call for the backup to replace the starter when he's struggling. It requires no defense of why the backup would be better, only an attack on the starter's struggles.

The "better than nothing" argument is a false one, since things can always get worse.


The experiments with starting Bobi or attempting to extend his minutes has already proved that. All the stats say he's an All-Star but those stats are garnered under highly favorable conditions. It doesn't stand up to the actual NBA. Put limited minutes against second-teamers out on the floor vs. NBA starters and reality comes down hard.

[MartinToVaught]

I love how statistics and records don't matter to Doc and his apologists when the aim for the Clippers is supposedly to win. Unstattable? What's next? We're not going to measure success by wins and losses?

"Unstatable" is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard a coach say, for real.

[TheNewEra]

You're not supposed to take the backup QB analogy literally.



And the terrible situation is Gortat. We have proved that statistically beyond any dispute. The 4 worst combinations have Gortat in them.

Over the last 15 games, the bottom 5 two-man combos on the Clippers:

minutes-off-def-net

A. Bradley, .S. Gilgeous-Alexander 261 102.5 117.3 -14.7
M. Gortat, .D. Gallinari 207 100.0 116.7 -16.7
M. Gortat, .T. Harris 207 99.5 117.5 -17.9
M. Gortat, .A. Bradley 205 97.9 116.7 -18.7
M. Gortat, .S. Gilgeous-Alexander 180 97.9 119.9 -22.1

Trot any other guard except Lou out there and the results will likely be the same or worse. Scapegoating Avery will not change that.



Milos is a dead letter, for reasons given. Not going to happen.

Sindarius will probably be out of the NBA next year.

You could start Ty, but he has 1200 minutes of NBA experience. Shai has 1100. Starting two rookies is suicidal.

You can start Bev instead, but that will weaken the success we're having with the Lou-Pat tandem.



Everybody knows Avery's offensive numbers suck, esp if you keep factoring in the first 20 games, which were among the worst in NBA history. But the next 20 games after that tell the truer story. Still not a plus, but not nearly the disaster it can be made to appear.



The other guards and other combinations are already being tested.

vs. NOLA:

Lou 30
Avery 29
Pat 24
Ty 19
Shai 13


You can argue 5 minutes plus or minus, but the adjustments are already being made, the minutes already redistributed.

The solution should not be fear of changing for a player who is having his worse year and provides nothing that’s insanity.

Another rule in life is: Anyone who believes things can't get any worse has no imagination. We are 24-19. The team was predicted to win 34 games. A bounce or two here and there and we beat the Pels the other night. The situation is fraught, but it is not yet time to panic, to throw s#it at the wall to see what sticks.

That comes later. But if we do end up starting two rookies, it's an admission the season is over.

My response to the QB analogy because it’s usually used in the context of a player of importance. No one is losing sleep if Bradley is benched and even if his replacement struggles we have like 3 other guys who have a chance to be better than nothing

It's an analogy. You're not supposed to take it literally.

The point of the analogy is that it's easy to call for the backup to replace the starter when he's struggling. It requires no defense of why the backup would be better, only an attack on the starter's struggles.

The "better than nothing" argument is a false one, since things can always get worse.


The experiments with starting Bobi or attempting to extend his minutes has already proved that. All the stats say he's an All-Star but those stats are garnered under highly favorable conditions. It doesn't stand up to the actual NBA. Put limited minutes against second-teamers out on the floor vs. NBA starters and reality comes down hard.

Bradley isn’t important enough to care about if he’s benched or not. Struggles are a week or a month in the nba he’s been sucking all season.

That do nothing logic also applies to wasting time. Then answer should the team have never started SGA and stuck with the Beverly and Bradley combination that started the season ? By the same logic of do nothing and it can get worse fear applies are you saying starting SGA was a mistake to even attempt?

[esqtvd]

My response to the QB analogy because it’s usually used in the context of a player of importance. No one is losing sleep if Bradley is benched and even if his replacement struggles we have like 3 other guys who have a chance to be better than nothing

It's an analogy. You're not supposed to take it literally.

The point of the analogy is that it's easy to call for the backup to replace the starter when he's struggling. It requires no defense of why the backup would be better, only an attack on the starter's struggles.

The "better than nothing" argument is a false one, since things can always get worse.


The experiments with starting Bobi or attempting to extend his minutes has already proved that. All the stats say he's an All-Star but those stats are garnered under highly favorable conditions. It doesn't stand up to the actual NBA. Put limited minutes against second-teamers out on the floor vs. NBA starters and reality comes down hard.

Bradley isn’t important enough to care about if he’s benched or not. Struggles are a week or a month in the nba he’s been sucking all season.

Unresponsive. Avery was world-class suck the first 20 games. He is marginally suck the last 20, and sucks less than Shai and Gortat, who are the bigger liabilities both statistically and acc to their own admission. He is the 3rd worst thing on the starting unit at the moment.

Bradley isn’t important enough to care about if he’s benched or not

You and many others care--desperately--to the point of ignoring the greater problems with Shai and especially Gortat.

That do nothing logic also applies to wasting time.

What's the hurry to quit and blow it up? We're 24-19. Plenty of time to surrender the season.

Then answer should the team have never started SGA and stuck with the Beverly and Bradley combination that started the season ? By the same logic of do nothing and it can get worse fear applies are you saying starting SGA was a mistake to even attempt?

SGA was given his chance to test his wings. As we discuss all this, the adjustments to the guard rotation were made and continue to be made.

vs. NOLA:

Lou 30
Avery 29
Pat 24
Ty 19
Shai 13

One of the distinguishing characteristics of the Doc Hate program is not updating the software.

[esqtvd]

I love how statistics and records don't matter to Doc and his apologists when the aim for the Clippers is supposedly to win. Unstattable? What's next? We're not going to measure success by wins and losses?

"Unstatable" is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard a coach say, for real.

"Unstatable" means "doesn't turn up on the stat sheet."

It's why you have coaches instead of coachbots.