2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[Kabookalu]

I just can't believe I'm watching a teenager when I see Doncic play. His "mid game" is already elite and that blows my mind.

Some people keep bringing up Tyreke, but I don't agree with that comparison. Tyreke's inbetween skills were lacking and it was evident it needed improving. He took the league by storm because he possessed an elite ability to get to the rim, though that set of skills was also limited, he was just insanely polished at one particular move and spammed it over and over again. Doncic economizes all of his moves in a way that they all complement each other and it's leveraged by that deadly stepback. Tyreke's deadly eurostep didn't exactly branch out into different options for him to score. If he couldn't get all the way to the rim or find someone to pass to he was in trouble. Can't say the same about Luka.

Kid is already a star.

[mcmurphy]

And what's wrong with being a Juve fan? Still mad about yesterday? Not my fault your FO is incompetent. You should root for us, since we've been carrying all of Italy for about 7 years now.

you know, right, where can you see 7 coppe campioni/champions all together?

[Dirk]

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

[Sactowndog]

No one expected Doncic to be this good this quickly.

I was happy, but not elated, when the Mavs drafted him because I expected about a three season time table for him to become good. I thought he would average around 15/4/4 in his rookie season.
Now that Doncic is better than anyone expected the timeline for the post-Dirk era has been accelerated. I think the Mavs are already ahead of the curve here in their rebuild but what their next big move should be is a little unclear.

Is Luka the Rookie of the year? Sure but let’s not loose sight of the fact that Pop was hunting him on defense the entire 4th quarter. Rudy Gay isolated him in the post and the Pop cleared out the entire team to one side of the court twice so his offensive player could attack Luka 1 v 1.

You can easily leave ROY out and just ask yourself, how many rookies will be able to produce numbers, that Luka is producing in last month, ever? Or maybe easier question, how many NBA players are able to have 25/8/8 on regular basis? I know, his ceiling is low, but it looks to me that his floor is the same as his presumed ceiling.

You’re right, he’s not and will never be good defender, but who even care, if he’s able to have 25/8/8 on an average shooting night. And by the way, with +8, he had the best +/- in Mavs team.

Luka’s on a hot steak right now but his scoring average is 20.3 which isn’t much more than Mitchell averaged at 20.5 or Tyreke averaged 20.1 in their Rookie of the year campaigns. Granted both players won or should have won ROY also.

Let’s be clear. Luka is deservably going to be Rookie of the Year. But I think the jury is still out whether he is the generational talent everyone is proclaiming him to be.

[juanc]

Is Luka the Rookie of the year? Sure but let’s not loose sight of the fact that Pop was hunting him on defense the entire 4th quarter. Rudy Gay isolated him in the post and the Pop cleared out the entire team to one side of the court twice so his offensive player could attack Luka 1 v 1.

You can easily leave ROY out and just ask yourself, how many rookies will be able to produce numbers, that Luka is producing in last month, ever? Or maybe easier question, how many NBA players are able to have 25/8/8 on regular basis? I know, his ceiling is low, but it looks to me that his floor is the same as his presumed ceiling.

You’re right, he’s not and will never be good defender, but who even care, if he’s able to have 25/8/8 on an average shooting night. And by the way, with +8, he had the best +/- in Mavs team.

Luka’s on a hot steak right now but his scoring average is 20.3 which isn’t much more than Mitchell averaged at 20.5 or Tyreke averaged 20.1 in their Rookie of the year campaigns. Granted both players won or should have won ROY also.

Let’s be clear. Luka is deservably going to be Rookie of the Year. But I think the jury is still out whether he is the generational talent everyone is proclaiming him to be.

Need to ask you what a player has to show to be declared a generational talent?

[juanc]

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

Gfycat Video - Click to Play

Best picture of Dirk and Luka I have seen so far

[Sactowndog]

I just can't believe I'm watching a teenager when I see Doncic play. His "mid game" is already elite and that blows my mind.

Some people keep bringing up Tyreke, but I don't agree with that comparison. Tyreke's inbetween skills were lacking and it was evident it needed improving. He took the league by storm because he possessed an elite ability to get to the rim, though that set of skills was also limited, he was just insanely polished at one particular move and spammed it over and over again. Doncic economizes all of his moves in a way that they all complement each other and it's leveraged by that deadly stepback. Tyreke's deadly eurostep didn't exactly branch out into different options for him to score. If he couldn't get all the way to the rim or find someone to pass to he was in trouble. Can't say the same about Luka.

Kid is already a star.

If your point Luka’s offensive game is already elite as a 19 year old no one is going to argue. But to be among the elite he needs to average 25 points a game not 20. He also needs to boost his efficiency from 43% to around 48%. He isn’t there yet. We shall see if he can get there.

[Sactowndog]

You can easily leave ROY out and just ask yourself, how many rookies will be able to produce numbers, that Luka is producing in last month, ever? Or maybe easier question, how many NBA players are able to have 25/8/8 on regular basis? I know, his ceiling is low, but it looks to me that his floor is the same as his presumed ceiling.

You’re right, he’s not and will never be good defender, but who even care, if he’s able to have 25/8/8 on an average shooting night. And by the way, with +8, he had the best +/- in Mavs team.

Luka’s on a hot steak right now but his scoring average is 20.3 which isn’t much more than Mitchell averaged at 20.5 or Tyreke averaged 20.1 in their Rookie of the year campaigns. Granted both players won or should have won ROY also.

Let’s be clear. Luka is deservably going to be Rookie of the Year. But I think the jury is still out whether he is the generational talent everyone is proclaiming him to be.

Need to ask you what a player has to show to be declared a generational talent?

I think it varies per your overall game. But most “generational talents” average 25+ points a game on around 48% efficiency. If you are going to be subpar defensively that number goes up a bit.

[Kabookalu]

I just can't believe I'm watching a teenager when I see Doncic play. His "mid game" is already elite and that blows my mind.

Some people keep bringing up Tyreke, but I don't agree with that comparison. Tyreke's inbetween skills were lacking and it was evident it needed improving. He took the league by storm because he possessed an elite ability to get to the rim, though that set of skills was also limited, he was just insanely polished at one particular move and spammed it over and over again. Doncic economizes all of his moves in a way that they all complement each other and it's leveraged by that deadly stepback. Tyreke's deadly eurostep didn't exactly branch out into different options for him to score. If he couldn't get all the way to the rim or find someone to pass to he was in trouble. Can't say the same about Luka.

Kid is already a star.

If your point Luka’s offensive game is already elite as a 19 year old no one is going to argue. But to be among the elite he needs to average 25 points a game not 20. He also needs to boost his efficiency from 43% to around 48%. He isn’t there yet. We shall see if he can get there.

But he takes a lot of 3's. His TS% of .564 is higher than any Melo season besides one at .568. Plus if we're focusing on just his scoring he's not a star, but he's also already a great floor general.

[Sactowndog]

I just can't believe I'm watching a teenager when I see Doncic play. His "mid game" is already elite and that blows my mind.

Some people keep bringing up Tyreke, but I don't agree with that comparison. Tyreke's inbetween skills were lacking and it was evident it needed improving. He took the league by storm because he possessed an elite ability to get to the rim, though that set of skills was also limited, he was just insanely polished at one particular move and spammed it over and over again. Doncic economizes all of his moves in a way that they all complement each other and it's leveraged by that deadly stepback. Tyreke's deadly eurostep didn't exactly branch out into different options for him to score. If he couldn't get all the way to the rim or find someone to pass to he was in trouble. Can't say the same about Luka.

Kid is already a star.

If your point Luka’s offensive game is already elite as a 19 year old no one is going to argue. But to be among the elite he needs to average 25 points a game not 20. He also needs to boost his efficiency from 43% to around 48%. He isn’t there yet. We shall see if he can get there.

But he takes a lot of 3's. His TS% of .564 is higher than any Melo season besides one at .568. Plus if we're focusing on just his scoring he's not a star, but he's also already a great floor general.

Melo would not be my definition of a generational talent.

[juanc]

Luka’s on a hot steak right now but his scoring average is 20.3 which isn’t much more than Mitchell averaged at 20.5 or Tyreke averaged 20.1 in their Rookie of the year campaigns. Granted both players won or should have won ROY also.

Let’s be clear. Luka is deservably going to be Rookie of the Year. But I think the jury is still out whether he is the generational talent everyone is proclaiming him to be.

Need to ask you what a player has to show to be declared a generational talent?

I think it varies per your overall game. But most “generational talents” average 25+ points a game on around 48% efficiency. If you are going to be subpar defensively that number goes up a bit.

In his rookie season? You seem to forget that he is still 19..

[Bob8]

Is Luka the Rookie of the year? Sure but let’s not loose sight of the fact that Pop was hunting him on defense the entire 4th quarter. Rudy Gay isolated him in the post and the Pop cleared out the entire team to one side of the court twice so his offensive player could attack Luka 1 v 1.

You can easily leave ROY out and just ask yourself, how many rookies will be able to produce numbers, that Luka is producing in last month, ever? Or maybe easier question, how many NBA players are able to have 25/8/8 on regular basis? I know, his ceiling is low, but it looks to me that his floor is the same as his presumed ceiling.

You’re right, he’s not and will never be good defender, but who even care, if he’s able to have 25/8/8 on an average shooting night. And by the way, with +8, he had the best +/- in Mavs team.

Luka’s on a hot steak right now but his scoring average is 20.3 which isn’t much more than Mitchell averaged at 20.5 or Tyreke averaged 20.1 in their Rookie of the year campaigns. Granted both players won or should have won ROY also.

Let’s be clear. Luka is deservably going to be Rookie of the Year. But I think the jury is still out whether he is the generational talent everyone is proclaiming him to be.

He’s on hot streak for a month now. His stats are going up every month. How many players in NBA average 20.3/6.7/5.1 anyway? Mitchell averaged almost a half rebounds less and 1/3 less assists.

[Kabookalu]

If your point Luka’s offensive game is already elite as a 19 year old no one is going to argue. But to be among the elite he needs to average 25 points a game not 20. He also needs to boost his efficiency from 43% to around 48%. He isn’t there yet. We shall see if he can get there.

But he takes a lot of 3's. His TS% of .564 is higher than any Melo season besides one at .568. Plus if we're focusing on just his scoring he's not a star, but he's also already a great floor general.

Melo would not be my definition of a generational talent.

Well, I just said he's going to be a star, which could range from Joe Johnson esque to Dwyane Wade esque.

[Johnny Firpo]

Let’s be clear. Luka is deservably going to be Rookie of the Year. But I think the jury is still out whether he is the generational talent everyone is proclaiming him to be.

I honestly don't think so. He is very different than Tyreke, who had red flags even after his rookie year, and the same goes for Mitchell, actually. He is bigger than both, has a better jumpshot, and better feel for the game. I'm not saying he is going to be top 20 all-time for sure, but I would actually say that he is going to be a hall of famer. That is his floor, if he stays healthy of course. Now between being a hall of famer, and actually becoming one of the all-time greats, there is a big difference. We don't know if he is a Chris Bosh, Pau Gasol, or a Dirk yet (ignore positions, talking about caliber here). That we have to find out, but I don't think there is any doubt at this point that - barring injuries - he will have a hall of fame career.

[leolozon]

Is Luka the Rookie of the year? Sure but let’s not loose sight of the fact that Pop was hunting him on defense the entire 4th quarter. Rudy Gay isolated him in the post and the Pop cleared out the entire team to one side of the court twice so his offensive player could attack Luka 1 v 1.

You can easily leave ROY out and just ask yourself, how many rookies will be able to produce numbers, that Luka is producing in last month, ever? Or maybe easier question, how many NBA players are able to have 25/8/8 on regular basis? I know, his ceiling is low, but it looks to me that his floor is the same as his presumed ceiling.

You’re right, he’s not and will never be good defender, but who even care, if he’s able to have 25/8/8 on an average shooting night. And by the way, with +8, he had the best +/- in Mavs team.

Luka’s on a hot steak right now but his scoring average is 20.3 which isn’t much more than Mitchell averaged at 20.5 or Tyreke averaged 20.1 in their Rookie of the year campaigns. Granted both players won or should have won ROY also.

Let’s be clear. Luka is deservably going to be Rookie of the Year. But I think the jury is still out whether he is the generational talent everyone is proclaiming him to be.

Generational talent is too soon, but if we judged player just on PPG, Lavine would be considered a better player than Jokic, Westbrook, Gobert, Irving, Towns... this year. So I wouldn't just look at PPG, Luka"s rookie season so far is better than Mitchell and Tyreke. And like it has been said, he's been better every month so far. So I doubt it gets worst from here.

[Sactowndog]

Need to ask you what a player has to show to be declared a generational talent?

I think it varies per your overall game. But most “generational talents” average 25+ points a game on around 48% efficiency. If you are going to be subpar defensively that number goes up a bit.

In his rookie season? You seem to forget that he is still 19..

I’m not the one declaring him a generational talent today. Does he have potential to grow into one? Sure but he isn’t one yet. At best today he is in the discussion for the all-star team.

[Bob8]

I think it varies per your overall game. But most “generational talents” average 25+ points a game on around 48% efficiency. If you are going to be subpar defensively that number goes up a bit.

In his rookie season? You seem to forget that he is still 19..

I’m not the one declaring him a generational talent today. Does he have potential to grow into one? Sure but he isn’t one yet. At best today he is in the discussion for the all-star team.

Funny enough, you’re the only one here, who used word generational talent.

[Sactowndog]

You can easily leave ROY out and just ask yourself, how many rookies will be able to produce numbers, that Luka is producing in last month, ever? Or maybe easier question, how many NBA players are able to have 25/8/8 on regular basis? I know, his ceiling is low, but it looks to me that his floor is the same as his presumed ceiling.

You’re right, he’s not and will never be good defender, but who even care, if he’s able to have 25/8/8 on an average shooting night. And by the way, with +8, he had the best +/- in Mavs team.

Luka’s on a hot steak right now but his scoring average is 20.3 which isn’t much more than Mitchell averaged at 20.5 or Tyreke averaged 20.1 in their Rookie of the year campaigns. Granted both players won or should have won ROY also.

Let’s be clear. Luka is deservably going to be Rookie of the Year. But I think the jury is still out whether he is the generational talent everyone is proclaiming him to be.

Generational talent is too soon, but if we judged player just on PPG, Lavine would be considered a better player than Jokic, Westbrook, Gobert, Irving, Towns... this year. So I wouldn't just look at PPG, Luka"s rookie season so far is better than Mitchell and Tyreke. And like it has been said, he's been better every month so far. So I doubt it gets worst from here.

I would say there are some things Luka is better than Mitchell or Tyreke. But Tyreke was a good perimeter defender so not sure I agree Luka is a better Rookie.

[gh123]

Dude, what Mitchell, he's a lot worse than Luka at everything including defense. How can you compare those lol. Also is worse than Tyreke's rookie season. I really don't get the hype, inefficient scorer who brings nothing else to the table.

[Bob8]

Luka’s on a hot steak right now but his scoring average is 20.3 which isn’t much more than Mitchell averaged at 20.5 or Tyreke averaged 20.1 in their Rookie of the year campaigns. Granted both players won or should have won ROY also.

Let’s be clear. Luka is deservably going to be Rookie of the Year. But I think the jury is still out whether he is the generational talent everyone is proclaiming him to be.

Generational talent is too soon, but if we judged player just on PPG, Lavine would be considered a better player than Jokic, Westbrook, Gobert, Irving, Towns... this year. So I wouldn't just look at PPG, Luka"s rookie season so far is better than Mitchell and Tyreke. And like it has been said, he's been better every month so far. So I doubt it gets worst from here.

I would say there are some things Luka is better than Mitchell or Tyreke. But Tyreke was a good perimeter defender so not sure I agree Luka is a better Rookie.

I see that Tyreke is suddenly must comparison for Luka. It kinda makes sense, last year must comparison were, Rubio and Hezonja. I have the feeling people will have problem to diminish Luka’s success next year. Because there weren’t many busts with 25/8/8 year.