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Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#841 » by nate33 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:58 pm

queridiculo wrote:So how about this one in the offseason:

WAS: Wall, Mahinmi
DET: Griffin, Jackson

This is basically a trade that addresses fit for both teams.

Detroit gets to pair Wall with Drummond and Washington adds Griffin who's a pretty decent fit in a more positionless approach in Washington.

The move is essentially salary cap neutral and gives both teams a chance to reset their approach with a look towards the future.

I'd definitely do this, but Detroit wouldn't. Position-wise, it makes a ton of sense, but the big hang up is the talent differential. First, regarding Griffin versus Wall, Griffin is actually playing and posting All Star numbers while Wall hasn't done that in two full seasons. (And Wall costs even more than Griffin.) Secondly, Detroit loses out on the Jackson/Mahinmi part as well. Jackson is at least a marginally useful instant offense 3rd guard. Mahinmi wouldn't get minutes on most teams in the NBA.

If Wall comes back healthy next year and looks real good by December, then maybe this trade could make sense next year. But we both know that EG won't trade Wall if Wall starts looking pretty good because the team never proactively sells high.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#842 » by dckingsfan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:03 pm

21 DAYS UNTIL THE TRADE DEADLINE!

And we are still on the edge...
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#843 » by payitforward » Fri Jan 18, 2019 12:03 am

Ruzious wrote:...That is the Mark Mosely of trade kickers...

LOL... Just noticed this paging down after Knicks game.... Still chuckling!
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#844 » by gambitx777 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:20 am

I think there is a lot of grey area involved with this trade kicker, and I don't think we will know exactly how it works, if and until he is traded and the league is forced to make a ruling on it and all the back room deals and **** are done that usually are involved with these things.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#845 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:21 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I think there is a lot of grey area involved with this trade kicker, and I don't think we will know exactly how it works, if and until he is traded and the league is forced to make a ruling on it and all the back room deals and **** are done that usually are involved with these things.

Let it go, gambitx777. Wall is not going to be traded this season regardless of the details surrounding the trade kicker. Nobody is going to trade for an injured guy who is owed $170M over the next 4 years.

I had some hope that he might be traded back when he was still playing, but the day he announced his season-ending surgery was the day that all consideration of trading him ended. Wall is going to have to get healthy and play well before trading him becomes possible again.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#846 » by ClutchDJ » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:43 pm

Yea, it’s pretty much pointless as hell posting about Wall traded now.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#847 » by FAH1223 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:58 pm

Per Wiretap, Wizards aren't interested in trading Otto for cap relief or future assets.

Read on Twitter


Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter


Perhaps the front office values Porter more than Wizards Twitter. Wizards are significantly worse without Otto Porter and are much better with him. Their W/L record over the past couple years including playoffs reflect this.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#848 » by dckingsfan » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:43 pm

FAH1223 wrote:Perhaps the front office values Porter more than Wizards Twitter. Wizards are significantly worse without Otto Porter and are much better with him. Their W/L record over the past couple years including playoffs reflect this.

Please, do not confuse the issue with facts.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#849 » by nate33 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:56 pm

FAH1223 wrote:Perhaps the front office values Porter more than Wizards Twitter. Wizards are significantly worse without Otto Porter and are much better with him. Their W/L record over the past couple years including playoffs reflect this.


I'm often genuinely surprised at the amount of hate and disrespect Otto gets on Twitter and on the BulletsForever boards. I get that Porter is generally underrated because fans don't seem to value efficiency as much as they should, but the hate is really overboard out there.

I feel like this board is much better at valuing Porter's contribution. We have our disagreements on the volume/efficiency debate, but we all agree that Porter is really good. He may not be quite worth that contract, but he's close.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#850 » by DCZards » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:30 pm

nate33 wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:Perhaps the front office values Porter more than Wizards Twitter. Wizards are significantly worse without Otto Porter and are much better with him. Their W/L record over the past couple years including playoffs reflect this.


I'm often genuinely surprised at the amount of hate and disrespect Otto gets on Twitter and on the BulletsForever boards. I get that Porter is generally underrated because fans don't seem to value efficiency as much as they should, but the hate is really overboard out there.

I feel like this board is much better at valuing Porter's contribution. We have our disagreements on the volume/efficiency debate, but we all agree that Porter is really good. He may not be quite worth that contract, but he's close.


There are 3-4 Wizard full or partial season ticketholders at my health club who I regularly talk to. To a person, they are always negative about Otto.

It's clearly Porter's max contract that colors their opinion of him. They expect a lot more production and more consistent play from someone making that kind of money.

I'm typically the one trying to make the case for OP and his value to the team.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#851 » by Illmatic12 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:11 pm

nate33 wrote:
FAH1223 wrote:Perhaps the front office values Porter more than Wizards Twitter. Wizards are significantly worse without Otto Porter and are much better with him. Their W/L record over the past couple years including playoffs reflect this.


I'm often genuinely surprised at the amount of hate and disrespect Otto gets on Twitter and on the BulletsForever boards. I get that Porter is generally underrated because fans don't seem to value efficiency as much as they should, but the hate is really overboard out there.

I feel like this board is much better at valuing Porter's contribution. We have our disagreements on the volume/efficiency debate, but we all agree that Porter is really good. He may not be quite worth that contract, but he's close.

The #1 issue I have with Porter is injuries . At 100% he is a very good player , even capable of sustaining near-All-Star type play for decent stretches.

But unfortunately, he seems to have one of those body types where he is always gimpy and playing through something. Beal had similar issues but he became a workout warrior and got himself into peak fitness, and is now durable and well-worth his contract. Otto doesn't seem to be that kind of workout junkie and I'm not convinced he is physically capable of taking on a larger role. He just seems like someone who will always be limited by durability or injuries.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#852 » by payitforward » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:50 am

Ruzious wrote:
payitforward wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I'd definitely make that trade - Zach's become quite a player, and he's signed reasonably for 3 more seasons.

I'd then trade the 2nd pick to Boston for 3 of their 4 1st rounders - figuring they'd want Barrett. Right now, their picks would be 9, 13, 21, and 22, so I'd take 9,13, and their last 1st. We'd also have the 6th pick - yes, 6th. There's only one team in the West with a worse record than the Wiz.

With our pick, I take Rui Hachimura. With the 9th pick, I take Darius Garland. At 13, I take one of 4 centers: Bruno Fernando, Jaxson Hayes, Bol Bol, or Jontay Porter. At 22, I take Brandon Clarke.

Leaving aside the trade itself, I am totally in favor of this strategy. Totally -- I would give one of my best bleeps for this to be the Wizards strategy!

But, I don't like Zach Lavine much. I'd be much happier to take Parker instead -- & let his option go this off-season. But, that's an unlikely move for Chicago, as they'd have both Lavine & Beal on their roster. Hutchison doesn't do much for me either. I'd probably prefer to have their R2 pick instead (or maybe 2 R2 picks...?).

Conceivably, we could have Porter, Wall, Mahinmi, Sato, Dekker, Brown & Bryant for @$100m (off top of my head). Add Hachimura, Garland, Bol, Clarke, & whoever we pick at #32 (Ponds?) for another $15m (?). Green for @$2m. That's $117m for 13 guys. Use the exception to add a solid player.

Of course, this would make us an altogether different kind of team -- Wall would be the representative of a prior generation of the Wizards. If he played well enough to become tradable, we'd be well set up for the following off season.

It's a fantasy, obviously, & it's impractical given the Bulls are unlikely to want both Beal & Lavine (though they might trade Lavine to someone else). & for this strategy to succeed, we would need a different GM. Still, wow... it's kind of "the process" at warp speed! :)

Sounds good, but I'm curious as to why you'd rather have an expiring contract than Lavine. He's a high usage player with a .566 TS%. Granted, he's got more to's than I'd like, but he's still got more assists than to's. Lifetime, his to's per 36 is 2.8 - so it's abnormally high for him this season. He makes 49.5% of his 2's, 35.8% of his 3's (lifetime 37.1%), 86.7% of his FTs, and gets 6.2 FT's per 36 minutes while averaging 24.9 points per 36. He's not Bradley Beal, but he's a good and improving 23 year old 2 guard on a reasonable contract.

Zach hasn't had a genuinely good season overall in his career yet. Plus they've been inconsistent -- up & down in various categories. Yet, because he scores a lot of points, he is already making almost $20m/year guaranteed through '21-22.

Yes, he's "high usage," so lets look at everything besides scoring. To make a long story short, overall he's way below average for a wing in that stuff. Pretty far below.

Brad is also a high usage player, but in that other stuff overall he's significantly above average for a wing.

The two guys score virtually the same # of points per 40 minutes this year. Brad's more efficient, but the difference isn't real big. But...

Thing is... this is Zach Lavine's 5th year in the league. Brad's 5th year was 2016-17. That was a breakout year for him. They are the equivalent age.

Of course, Zach could still make it happen -- I don't have a crystal ball! But... it's not a bet I'd like to make.

Plus, I think we need to start over -- or as close to that as practical -- which is what I liked about your awesome 4-rookie fantasy (to which I hoped to add a 5th rookie via the high R2 pick). IMO, Zach's salary puts too much weight in the boat for a restart.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#854 » by nate33 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:06 pm



In the East, Toronto and Boston are among the most motivated teams to come calling, for obvious but unique reasons. The Raptors have made it known in front-office circles that they're interested in adding an elite shooting guard, rival executives say. A package including Jonas Valanciunas, Delon Wright and a first-round pick might be a sensible starting point to the discussion, one of the execs said.

JV, Wright and the 29th pick in the draft?
:rofl2:


With the Celtics struggling to find an identity—and defined roles for their plethora of wing players—there could be a path to a deal. Jaylen Brown, the expiring contract of Marcus Morris or Aron Baynes (2019-20 player option) and a first-round pick would have the makings of a compelling offer, according to one executive.

Jaylen Brown, expirings and a late pick? Ha!
Make it Brown plus two picks, including the MEM pick and the SAC pick, and we'll talk.


And don't forget about the Pacers, who are not only third in the East but also have the pieces to put together an enticing trade package. Let's start with Darren Collison, Myles Turner and a first-round pick. The Wizards would get a point guard who could work for the rest of this season while Wall is out, plus Turner, a roll man who could work with Wall down the road (assuming the Wizards are, in fact, stuck with him).

Donatas Sabonas or GTFO.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#855 » by payitforward » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:26 pm

I can't see us wanting Valanciunas. Trading Beal would signal a desire to get younger. Delon Wright -- who went 5 picks after Kelly Oubre in '15 -- is a good player. But, that's not a sensible package at all.

The Celtics offer is a bit better. Esp. if it's the Memphis pick (#6??) & the Sac'to pick (# 15??).

As to the Pacers... I'd trade Beal straight up for Sabonis. Not too many guys in the league I wouldn't trade straight up for Sabonis. His numbers at 23 years old.... Wow!

I would give them Beal plus Thomas Bryant (with great reluctance, but still...) for Sabonis, Young, O'Quinn & Alize Johnson. I'd hate to lose Bryant, but before you react take a look at Sabonis' contract.

Irrelevant; they aren't trading Sabonis.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#856 » by TGW » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:26 pm

Beal straight up for Sabonis? What?
Some random troll wrote:Not to sound negative, but this team is owned by an arrogant cheapskate, managed by a moron and coached by an idiot. Recipe for disaster.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#857 » by 80sballboy » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:40 pm

TGW wrote:Beal straight up for Sabonis? What?


I'd trade Beal for Arvydas Sabonis in his prime or at Portland. Now he was incredible. Domantas is having an excellent year and is just 22. Incredibly efficient. I'd do Beal for him and a first. They can have any expiring player aside from Sato. Ariza, Morris, or Green.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#858 » by dangermouse » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:41 pm

Celtics deal would be alright if its those two high picks...

I'd be looking to move Porter too (Sac town?) for the full rebuild though. With Wall out we should be able to field a tanktastic team with whats left.

Would suck to see Beal go... but theres some good foundational talent in this draft. We'll see what happens, but im happy either way.
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long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:but why would the pacers want Mahinmi's contract


Well, in fairness, we took Mike Pence off their hands. Taking back Mahinmi is the least they can do.
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#859 » by gambitx777 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:57 pm

nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I think there is a lot of grey area involved with this trade kicker, and I don't think we will know exactly how it works, if and until he is traded and the league is forced to make a ruling on it and all the back room deals and **** are done that usually are involved with these things.

Let it go, gambitx777. Wall is not going to be traded this season regardless of the details surrounding the trade kicker. Nobody is going to trade for an injured guy who is owed $170M over the next 4 years.

I had some hope that he might be traded back when he was still playing, but the day he announced his season-ending surgery was the day that all consideration of trading him ended. Wall is going to have to get healthy and play well before trading him becomes possible again.

My momma never raised no quitters and how dare you insult her by assuming she did ! Lol
But I just don't see it as I'm possible it's just gonna be hard. But the bigger issue is that I don't think EG even wants to trade him which is the bigger issue at hand imo
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Re: Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII 

Post#860 » by payitforward » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:24 am

TGW wrote:Beal straight up for Sabonis? What?

Go take a look at what Sabonis is doing. Look at his numbers.

He's scoring almost as many points as Beal -- but at a .66 TS% -- while pulling down over 15 rebounds per 40 minutes, & getting almost as many assists as Brad.

In his 3d year. At 22 years old.

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