Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell)

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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#81 » by 916fan » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:50 pm

Fischella wrote:Oh, so you are comparing them for what Parker was at Duke as a prospect? not for what Parker career has been or could've been in the pros (with or without injuries)?

I see, I missed the point (although you referring to it as a floor made me think of pro-Jabari not Duke-Jabari) I guess that makes a bit more sense but still doesn't for me, I mean Parker might've been out of shape at Duke but he had legit on-ball ability to create, was limited as a passer (but that team was a mess with no PG and basically Jabari and Hood doing everything) and was much more dynamic in terms of his scoring package and basketball athleticism (even if he was fat or whatever) than Rui has ever been

Rui has started to do more stuff as a go-to guy but he stills has the scoring tools of a big, Jabari has always had legit top handles for a 6-9 guy

Also, big difference in terms of upside, Parker was 19.3 by his draft and Rui is going to be 21.4, over 2 years older

Jabari coudl've been so good. His injuries slowed down his progressions, but at the same time, he was extremely over weight at Duke. I remember when the excuse for his weight gain was that he had to play center. Nope, just didn't care enough. Story of his career eh? And people give Wiggins crap...
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#82 » by mojo13 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:57 pm

The Stepien making the case that Brandon Clarke could be a top three prospect (not that he will be drafted top three)
They are pretty bullish on him, this writer in particular. But they make an interesting case with comps to Paul Milsap, Bo Outlaw, Shawn Marion, or a much, much better Jordan Bell.
https://www.thestepien.com/2019/01/18/draft-notes-easy-case-brandon-clarke/
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#83 » by Cosmic_Backlash » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:14 pm

mojo13 wrote:The Stepien making the case that Brandon Clarke could be a top three prospect (not that he will be drafted top three)
They are pretty bullish on him, this writer in particular. But they make an interesting case with comps to Paul Milsap, Bo Outlaw, Shawn Marion, or a much, much better Jordan Bell.
https://www.thestepien.com/2019/01/18/draft-notes-easy-case-brandon-clarke/


I'm close agreeing with them. Defense prospects are historically underrated, especially really high impact ones. Think Ben Wallace, Draymond Green, etc. Even wing ones like Bruce Bowen & Thabo. You almost never see a defense-first player taken in the top 10 - it's extremely rare. Last ones I can think of were Nerlens and MKG. I think Nerlens still has a chance to be a centerpiece kind of defensive center, but I think MKG has been a disappointment.

There has to be a point when you see a defensive savant and have to be willing to take a risk though, it just depends on how sure you are they will pan out. I feel pretty confident that Clarke will pan out, but his age does scare me a little. I think I wouldn't hesitate to take him starting at ~7, but I think he easily can make a case for being a the 3rd best player in the daft too.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#84 » by SpeedyG » Fri Feb 8, 2019 1:51 pm

Rui reminds me of a young David West type. Before the explosion of the 3pt shot analytics, I think Rui would be the type of PF most teams would covet. I think he has more adaptability in his game to today's NBA but i see him as a high floor low ceiling guy.

Not someone I would take high but late teens to early 20s, he could be at worst a rotation guy.

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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#85 » by doordoor123 » Fri Feb 8, 2019 4:43 pm

Clarke (Roleplayer), Hachimura (Roleplayer), Novell (G-League), Tillie (Starter)
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#86 » by Ruzious » Fri Mar 1, 2019 9:25 pm

Cosmic_Backlash wrote:
mojo13 wrote:The Stepien making the case that Brandon Clarke could be a top three prospect (not that he will be drafted top three)
They are pretty bullish on him, this writer in particular. But they make an interesting case with comps to Paul Milsap, Bo Outlaw, Shawn Marion, or a much, much better Jordan Bell.
https://www.thestepien.com/2019/01/18/draft-notes-easy-case-brandon-clarke/


I'm close agreeing with them. Defense prospects are historically underrated, especially really high impact ones. Think Ben Wallace, Draymond Green, etc. Even wing ones like Bruce Bowen & Thabo. You almost never see a defense-first player taken in the top 10 - it's extremely rare. Last ones I can think of were Nerlens and MKG. I think Nerlens still has a chance to be a centerpiece kind of defensive center, but I think MKG has been a disappointment.

There has to be a point when you see a defensive savant and have to be willing to take a risk though, it just depends on how sure you are they will pan out. I feel pretty confident that Clarke will pan out, but his age does scare me a little. I think I wouldn't hesitate to take him starting at ~7, but I think he easily can make a case for being a the 3rd best player in the daft too.

Has it reached the point where - Clarke not only should be a top 10 pick; he likely will be a top 10 pick?
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#87 » by CptCrunch » Fri Mar 1, 2019 11:00 pm

It is of my opinion that Gonzaga players are perpetually overrated. When was the last time Gonzaga didn't have some godly NPOY/advanced stat player on their team. Except all of them end up as role players.

I don't buy Clarke's advanced stats. He is a system player. Gonzaga is one of the best college systems at making players look good.

Gonzaga overrates players.

UNC ruins talents. UNC 5 stars stay for 3 years and end up as scrubs.

Kentucky buries talent due to Calipari's inability to coach and implement a system.

Duke is really bad for non-top talent. K doesn't play a deep rotation so some mid to low 5 star don't get to play and eventually flake out.

Michigan State doesn't have talent.

Wait, I think college basketball plain sucks..but tbh as a Duke fan, I think Kentucky is the best place for a NBA prospect who wants to get paid and spend a year not going to class and sleeping with coeds.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#88 » by doordoor123 » Sat Mar 2, 2019 12:54 am

paulbball wrote:It is of my opinion that Gonzaga players are perpetually overrated. When was the last time Gonzaga didn't have some godly NPOY/advanced stat player on their team. Except all of them end up as role players.

I don't buy Clarke's advanced stats. He is a system player. Gonzaga is one of the best college systems at making players look good.

Gonzaga overrates players.

UNC ruins talents. UNC 5 stars stay for 3 years and end up as scrubs.

Kentucky buries talent due to Calipari's inability to coach and implement a system.

Duke is really bad for non-top talent. K doesn't play a deep rotation so some mid to low 5 star don't get to play and eventually flake out.

Michigan State doesn't have talent.

Wait, I think college basketball plain sucks..but tbh as a Duke fan, I think Kentucky is the best place for a NBA prospect who wants to get paid and spend a year not going to class and sleeping with coeds.


Domantas Sabonis is pretty good. You can’t generalize because each player is unique or individual and these players come from all over. I mean Hachimura is from fricken Japan. And different years teams have better or worse prospects and it’s all about luck because these players can choose to go wherever they want. But often times players have more opportunities in the NBA if they’re from one of these more popular schools. You can argue Bryn Forbes made it because Draymond Green was endorsing him. That’s why these guys with hype actually have reasonable hype because they’ll often get more opportunities. The issue with these schools too is that they’re often recruiting for college basketball, not the NBA. Kennedy Meeks was a great college player, but there was no way he was going to be an NBA player. As evaluators, people often misjudge the difference between college players and NBA players. Like Matisse Thybulle is a college player, but I would be surprised if he’s an NBA player. I actually like Oshae Brissett much more as an NBA defender because he has more size, he’s longer, quicker and more athletic. It doesn’t show in numbers at the college level, but the game will change for him in the NBA. The reverse is also true, there are bad players in college, like Hamidou Diallo, who are much better in the NBA because their athleticism and speed is up there with the great athletes of the NBA.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#89 » by clyde21 » Sat Mar 2, 2019 1:19 am

i mean, to be fair Clarke's advanced metrics are far beyond anyone else on Gonzaga it's not even really a contest. He's at 18 BPM while Tillie, Norvell and Hach are in the 9-10. I went all the way back to 13 and no one else comes close to what Clarke's doing either.

also, Sabonis and Collins are both turning into pretty good NBA players.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#90 » by doordoor123 » Sat Mar 2, 2019 2:01 am

I like Clarke, not a superstar, but really good player. I see him as possibly the fourth best player on a team in his potential prime. He has a tiny percent chance of becoming something really special and unique like Draymond Green, but more likely not. Depends on how he develops. I think his personality in the draft process is going to shape how well I see him as a prospect. If his personality shines it’ll make a big difference.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#91 » by Coeur » Sat Mar 2, 2019 1:41 pm

Ruzious wrote:
Cosmic_Backlash wrote:
mojo13 wrote:The Stepien making the case that Brandon Clarke could be a top three prospect (not that he will be drafted top three)
They are pretty bullish on him, this writer in particular. But they make an interesting case with comps to Paul Milsap, Bo Outlaw, Shawn Marion, or a much, much better Jordan Bell.
https://www.thestepien.com/2019/01/18/draft-notes-easy-case-brandon-clarke/


I'm close agreeing with them. Defense prospects are historically underrated, especially really high impact ones. Think Ben Wallace, Draymond Green, etc. Even wing ones like Bruce Bowen & Thabo. You almost never see a defense-first player taken in the top 10 - it's extremely rare. Last ones I can think of were Nerlens and MKG. I think Nerlens still has a chance to be a centerpiece kind of defensive center, but I think MKG has been a disappointment.

There has to be a point when you see a defensive savant and have to be willing to take a risk though, it just depends on how sure you are they will pan out. I feel pretty confident that Clarke will pan out, but his age does scare me a little. I think I wouldn't hesitate to take him starting at ~7, but I think he easily can make a case for being a the 3rd best player in the daft too.

Has it reached the point where - Clarke not only should be a top 10 pick; he likely will be a top 10 pick?
i think he should and will.
Both Clarke and Rui will go top 10. The national title will ensure that and prob land both where they belong. 3-8
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#92 » by Ruzious » Sat Mar 2, 2019 2:25 pm

clyde21 wrote:i mean, to be fair Clarke's advanced metrics are far beyond anyone else on Gonzaga it's not even really a contest. He's at 18 BPM while Tillie, Norvell and Hach are in the 9-10. I went all the way back to 13 and no one else comes close to what Clarke's doing either.

also, Sabonis and Collins are both turning into pretty good NBA players.

Not sure I've seen anyone shoot exactly the way Clarke does. He seems to jump as high as he can and shoots at the very top - after straighening his body. His max vert is so high, that his shot is virtually impossible to block no matter how slowly he releases it. If he can add some strength, he can use it to create separation - and he'll be able to get a good shot off whenever he wants. And then if he can add a 3 point shot, he's an all-star. Those are if's, but I think his upside is extremely high - higher than Collins and Sabonis - and Sabonis is absolutely killing it this season.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#93 » by Coeur » Sat Mar 2, 2019 7:35 pm

doordoor123 wrote:I like Clarke, not a superstar, but really good player. I see him as possibly the fourth best player on a team in his potential prime. He has a tiny percent chance of becoming something really special and unique like Draymond Green, but more likely not. Depends on how he develops. I think his personality in the draft process is going to shape how well I see him as a prospect. If his personality shines it’ll make a big difference.

What teams do you see the best fits? I see what you’re saying and agree he needs the right fit with the right 2 or 3 guys doing the scoring where he just becomes electric playing off some really good players.


Boston would be smart to package some of their picks to grab Clarke.


I hope a good team trades up for Clarke. Love it If the Nugs could get ahold of him. Portland, Boston or that type. Just hate to see him end up on the expansion like pelicans next year
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#94 » by doordoor123 » Sat Mar 2, 2019 9:35 pm

Coeur wrote:
doordoor123 wrote:I like Clarke, not a superstar, but really good player. I see him as possibly the fourth best player on a team in his potential prime. He has a tiny percent chance of becoming something really special and unique like Draymond Green, but more likely not. Depends on how he develops. I think his personality in the draft process is going to shape how well I see him as a prospect. If his personality shines it’ll make a big difference.

What teams do you see the best fits? I see what you’re saying and agree he needs the right fit with the right 2 or 3 guys doing the scoring where he just becomes electric playing off some really good players.


Boston would be smart to package some of their picks to grab Clarke.


I hope a good team trades up for Clarke. Love it If the Nugs could get ahold of him. Portland, Boston or that type. Just hate to see him end up on the expansion like pelicans next year


Boston for sure loves him. He’s exactly the type of player they love and honestly someone they need right now. I can see a lot of teams liking him because of the energy he brings off the bench, kind of like how Harrell comes off the bench (not saying they’re alike). Randle has the same role so I don’t think it would work with the Pelicans. I like him as a change of pace player off the bench in his first year if I’m drafting him.
I think there are some teams that see upside and might sit him for the first year while he develops his jumper, like what the Spurs have been doing with Chimezie Metu or what the Bucks did with DJ Wilson. But I think the best teams with the most opportunity to use him right away will be the Mavericks, Thunder, Suns, Blazers, Nets, Pistons, Heat, Knicks and Wizards. He can play the Shawn Marion role with the Mavericks and would fit really well with Doncic and Porzingis. The Thunder love those athletes and theyre willing to just throw guys in the fire to see what they can do, the Suns could use the defense and an energy guy off the bench, to me the Blazers and Heat play at the right kind of pace for him — not always running and are willing to give the ball to post players, Pistons could really use the depth behind Griffin and he could play next to Griffin in a smaller lineup, Fizdale loves this kind of player that can bring energy and play defense and he can possibly fit in with what they have and if the Wizards don’t keep both Portis and Parker I think he would be a great fit there.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#95 » by mojo13 » Sun Mar 3, 2019 5:45 am

clyde21 wrote:i mean, to be fair Clarke's advanced metrics are far beyond anyone else on Gonzaga it's not even really a contest. He's at 18 BPM while Tillie, Norvell and Hach are in the 9-10. I went all the way back to 13 and no one else comes close to what Clarke's doing either.

also, Sabonis and Collins are both turning into pretty good NBA players.


Kelly Olynyk had a 13.4 BPM and a fantastic 36 PER in his junior season. I believe that PER is top 10 of the last decade.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#96 » by Ruzious » Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:30 pm

One Clarke stat I think very few have ever touched - he has 2 more blocked shots than missed FG attempts on the season while scoring at a rate of 24.5 points per 40 minutes. David Robinson did it - but only in his junior year.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#97 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:22 pm

Read on Twitter


Brandon Clarke Is a Positional Enigma—and Gonzaga’s Best Hope for a Title

The bouncy junior is a center in a small forward’s body. But that isn’t an indictment, it’s high praise. He’s had a historic season, and maximizing his talents will be the key to both a Bulldogs championship run and figuring out his place in the NBA



Gonzaga has never had a big man like Brandon Clarke before. The mid-major school has gone from David to literal Goliath in recent years by churning out NBA-bound big men, including three lottery picks (Kelly Olynyk, Domantas Sabonis, and Zach Collins). None had Clarke’s freakish athleticism, which allows the 6-foot-8, 215-pound junior to play far bigger than his size. Clarke is an elite defensive player coming off a breakout offensive performance (36 points on 15-of-18 shooting) in a second-round win over Baylor.

Clarke is having a historically great season. The records at Sports-Reference.com go back to the 1992-93 season, and no player in that time has matched his all-around production: 17.0 points on 69.9 percent shooting, 8.4 rebounds, 1.8 assists, 3.1 blocks, and 1.2 steals per game. He’s a hyper-efficient offensive machine who protects the rim better than most future NBA centers.

Clarke has a rare combination of athleticism, motor, and basketball IQ. He doesn’t need to tower over everyone else on the floor: He makes up the difference by jumping really high and really fast. He has incredible timing when contesting shots, rarely fouling even though he spends so much time hanging in the air. Clarke plays hard but never out of control, and he’s almost always in the right position. Like all great defenders, he anticipates rather than reacts to the offense. He roams all over the court, and he is as comfortable defending the 3-point line as the rim. His ability to switch screens and stay in front of guards on the perimeter gives a new element to the Zags defense, which has traditionally been built around funneling penetration into less-mobile interior defenders.

His offensive success is built on the same foundation. Clarke plays to his strengths. He’s still not a great shooter. He just doesn’t take shots that he can’t make.

In this position-less era of the NBA, Clarke might be the closest thing there is to a tweener. He can play spot minutes as a small-ball 5 at the next level, but it’s hard to see him being able to match up with guys like Joel Embiid and Karl-Anthony Towns over the course of an entire game. The problem for Clarke is that he doesn’t have the shooting ability to play on the perimeter on offense, which has become almost a requirement for every position but center. The only path for him to start early in his NBA career will be if he plays next to a stretch big man who can shoot 3s and defend 5s.

Clarke is a different twist on undersize bigs like Sabonis and Julius Randle, elite scorers who don’t have the length to protect the rim or the shooting ability to space the floor. He should be able to do so many different things well that he will be worth fitting into a starting lineup on the next level. There are not many players in the NBA with as much defensive upside as Clarke: He has the potential to be an elite perimeter stopper who can switch screens across four positions and wreak havoc as a weak-side shot-blocker. Clarke could have the defensive impact of guys like Andre Roberson or Draymond Green while being a far more explosive offensive player.

There is an opportunity cost to playing a non-shooter like Clarke. It’s hard to find room to play more than one player like that at a time in the NBA.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#98 » by clyde21 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:04 pm

his numbers are pretty insane...it's funny that if Zion wasn't having the best college season ever, we might be talking about Clarke having the best college season ever.

game against Baylor might have been the best tournament game i've ever seen by a single player.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#99 » by Dat2U » Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:04 pm

I have Clarke as the 2nd best PF in this draft but as the scouting report above mentioned, it should be with a team that employs a stretch 5. I'm trying to find a comparable for him and I can't but I think he'll be an RPM stud and deluxe role player. I suspect he'll be very low usage as well. He's currently 6th on my board.
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Re: Gonzaga prospects (Clarke, Hachimura, Tillie, Norvell) 

Post#100 » by moss_is_1 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:09 pm

Dat2U wrote:I have Clarke as the 2nd best PF in this draft but as the scouting report above mentioned, it should be with a team that employs a stretch 5. I'm trying to find a comparable for him and I can't but I think he'll be an RPM stud and deluxe role player. I suspect he'll be very low usage as well. He's currently 6th on my board.

I want him on the Wolves.

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