Regular Season Game 45: Brooklyn Nets (23-23) at Orlando Magic (19-25)

[Optimus_Steel]

Can we fire ownership and Martins yet?

They are not passionate about the team, they should just cash out (they are going to make a massive profit) sell the team to an onwership group that has good ideas, cares and wants to keep team in Orlando.

[OrlandO]

I would like to see how would roster look if in place of Isaac Magic can find somebody who can make right pass and make open shot. Some Ariza type player just to streach offense and keep defense honest.

I would like to see the roster with a good starting PG or even an above average backup PG.

[dsg2021]

I think WeHam recognizes the same thing.. We have absolutely incredible pieces to surround the 1-2 creative scorers that hopefully come our way someday soon. Not sure it'll be this draft and FA, but definitely within 3 seasons. In the meantime, ORL is a solid PG and one more T. Ross-type wing from putting it all together in a good way, until their biggest BPA-scorer or star FA/trade opportunity comes along. Hopefully they can fulfill those two needs for dirt cheap in the next 2-3 weeks, and keep saving their best assets for the long term picture (something such as a draft trade-up to Ja Morant as one example).

[swarlesbarkley]

I think WeHam recognizes the same thing.. We have absolutely incredible pieces to surround the 1-2 creative scorers that hopefully come our way someday soon. Not sure it'll be this draft and FA, but definitely within 3 seasons. In the meantime, ORL is a solid PG and one more T. Ross-type wing from putting it all together in a good way, until their biggest BPA-scorer or star FA/trade opportunity comes along. Hopefully they can fulfill those two needs for dirt cheap in the next 2-3 weeks, and keep saving their best assets for the long term picture (something such as a draft trade-up to Ja Morant as one example).

Not to be super cynical but basically you're saying we're close, we just need to pick up our best 2 players yet to be formidable.

[OrlandO]

We lost because the Nets' guards hit 3pt bomb after 3pt bomb. That's how they stayed in the game and cut the lead. 46 3pt attempts from the Nets is inexcusable... that's 20(!) more threes than we took and they hit them at a higher percentage than us.

That's their game though, it's not surprising. They are 5th in 3pt attempts per game. They have lots of good 3pt shooters. They have a lot of guards and wing players, they spread the floor, bomb from 3. They have a deep bench. They've joined the modern NBA when we are still playing a style that is becoming extinct, because we enamored with drafting defenders.

They took 12 more 3s than usual and hit them at 6% higher rate than usual... you can live with an increase in one category as it usually means limiting the other, but to give up both is a complete failure. But yeah, we are not helping ourselves with the lack of shooters.

[Xatticus]

I would like to see how would roster look if in place of Isaac Magic can find somebody who can make right pass and make open shot. Some Ariza type player just to streach offense and keep defense honest.

It's really interesting that you use Ariza as an example considering that we had a 21-year-old Ariza on our roster some years ago and that SVG wanted him traded because he couldn't shoot.

[Xatticus]

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here - we all know Isaac’s usg% is last amongst starters.

I just don’t get some of you here. So when the young guy who rarely gets a play drawn for him doesn’t get much opportunity outside of put-backs, tip-ins, and transition has a bad shooting night, he gets crucified. But when the two vets with the highest usg rate on the roster shoot the the lowest % among all players on a ton of attempts, they get the pass?

Nah - don’t just blame Isaac, trade that pos scrub after 66 games on a nba court.

It's a bit of the chicken and egg phenomenon. There's no doubt that Isaac negatively impacts the rest of the starters on offense because the defense can practically ignore him to clog the paint or double and Isaac rarely makes them pay for this. Conversely, Isaac rarely gets the ball when the defense ignores him because the rest of the starters most likely don't believe he'll make a play or make the shot.

Considering a lot of his points come off open jumpers, transition buckets, put-backs, and tip-ins, his FG% should be much higher than .396 (.406 this season). The fact that his FG% is that low considering the type of shots he's getting is extremely concerning and explains why the rest of the guys don't pass him the ball.

FG% is almost meaningless. We have much better metrics for scoring efficiency (eFG% and TS%). A lot of players with high 3PA rates have low FG percentages.

[pepe1991]

I would like to see how would roster look if in place of Isaac Magic can find somebody who can make right pass and make open shot. Some Ariza type player just to streach offense and keep defense honest.

It's really interesting that you use Ariza as an example considering that we had a 21-year-old Ariza on our roster some years ago and that SVG wanted him traded because he couldn't shoot.

Is it?
Good thing that you compared 43rd guy in a draft with lottery pick who was bounced around 4 teams in 4 years.

[Xatticus]

I would like to see how would roster look if in place of Isaac Magic can find somebody who can make right pass and make open shot. Some Ariza type player just to streach offense and keep defense honest.

It's really interesting that you use Ariza as an example considering that we had a 21-year-old Ariza on our roster some years ago and that SVG wanted him traded because he couldn't shoot.

Is it?
Good thing that you compared 43rd guy in a draft with lottery pick who was bounced around 4 teams in 4 years.

I don't care where he was drafted, he earned his status as a prospect very early on with New York. I was excited to have acquired him and I was irate when he was traded for a couple journeymen because he didn't fit the mold that SVG wanted. I liked him for the same reasons that I like Isaac, and Isaac is a vastly superior shooter to who Ariza was in his early years.

[Audi]

Just watched the replay of the entire 4th quarter. Woof that was some terrible offensive basketball the last 4 minutes of game time. Most of it was bad shot selection but that seems to be a symptom of them basically playing 4 on 5 out there when JI is in the game. It's not that Evan and Vuc don't see JI open, they see him and purposely don't pass to him (I assume) because they don't trust him with the ball in his hands. And I kinda don't blame Evan and Vuc since there's quite a bit of evidence that he can't be trusted: his shooting % being a big one, but also his decision-making ala taking a fast break into 2 defenders and not even hitting the rim.

So what does it say about Evan and Vuc’s decision making that when they see an open JI, choose not to pass to him, but instead play buddy ball and pass to the other, when both were literally leading the roster in lowest fg%?

The fact is this: JI hasnt even finished out a full season due to injury. He’s still a rookie out there. He and Mo were both picked as raw prospects with the well documented knowledge that they had all the tools but would take some time to develop. With the exception of a very small fraction of those who didn’t like Issac from the get-go and the fraction that thought he was the second-coming of Durant, EVERYONE here recognized these picks were raw and needed time to grow. But apparently not even a full season of NBA experience is enough time to develop raw youth prospects. Seriously - WTF is wrong with you all? I get that we are all frustrated at this team for this entire rebuild and especially management (and after loses like clockwork), but it should be obvious that you don’t prematurely turn against your developing youth in the process.

[Skin]

I'm still a believer in Isaac

[pepe1991]

It's really interesting that you use Ariza as an example considering that we had a 21-year-old Ariza on our roster some years ago and that SVG wanted him traded because he couldn't shoot.

Is it?
Good thing that you compared 43rd guy in a draft with lottery pick who was bounced around 4 teams in 4 years.

I don't care where he was drafted, he earned his status as a prospect very early on with New York. I was excited to have acquired him and I was irate when he was traded for a couple journeymen because he didn't fit the mold that SVG wanted. I liked him for the same reasons that I like Isaac, and Isaac is a vastly superior shooter to who Ariza was in his early years.

Ariza is career mid tear role player who had luxury to win one ring in process.
When he was drafted league average in 3FGA was 15,8 per game. Today is 31,3. It was almost irrelevant for him to shoot well becuause league was bunch of solo stars playing iso ball along with 1 on 1 defense, witch happend to be his strenght. By the time he was official starter he was already on his 4th team.

I used him as example of most average SF who is nba starter, not to compliment his game.
You say Isaac is much better shooter than Ariza was like it's some milestone to shoot better than guy who made 15 threes in first 3 years

[Nemesis21]

Can we fire ownership and Martins yet?

They are not passionate about the team, they should just cash out (they are going to make a massive profit) sell the team to an onwership group that has good ideas, cares and wants to keep team in Orlando.

[Nemesis21]

I'm still a believer in Isaac

Groot!

[BadHombre]

I would like to see how would roster look if in place of Isaac Magic can find somebody who can make right pass and make open shot. Some Ariza type player just to streach offense and keep defense honest.

It's really interesting that you use Ariza as an example considering that we had a 21-year-old Ariza on our roster some years ago and that SVG wanted him traded because he couldn't shoot.

Is it?
Good thing that you compared 43rd guy in a draft with lottery pick who was bounced around 4 teams in 4 years.

You're the one who mentioned wanting Ariza over Isaac, as that would be an improvement in your eyes (which should be obvious when comparing a 10 year veteran vs (essentially) a rookie). Once players have been drafted, their draft position is irrelevant to their production on the court other than the expectations you might put on them.

But lets look at other #6 picks over the past 10 years:

Jianlin
Gallinari
Johnny Flynn
Ekpe Udoh
Vesely
Lillard
Noel
Smart
WCS
Heild
Isaac
Bamba

That should help reframe expectations on #6 picks. There's only 1 superstar amongst those names. Sure, there were better players picked after almost every one of those names, but this isn't an exercise in lamenting missed opportunities, just an opportunity to adjust what you're expecting from that #6 pick. Generally, talent levels decline from a #5 pick onwards, where you're doing well to acquire a starting caliber player, let alone a superstar. (It's interesting to note the coincidental focus on defensive players at this draft spot: Udoh, Noel, Smart, WCS, Isaac, Bamba).

I feel like you'll instantly throw Isaac into the Jinalin/Vesely/Udoh end of the spectrum. But give him time, and I think he'll find a place between Gallinari and Noel/WCS.

If you're expecting him to be a superstar, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. If you want to fret that we picked him over Markkannen/Mitchell, again, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment (also, I can't imagine many people being that high on Lauri or Mitchell pre-draft). But if you're expecting him to be above average for #6 picks, getting an Ariza level talent out of Isaac would should get him there and make him a successful draft pick.