2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

King Ken · Post #1801 » by **King Ken** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:12 am

3toheadmelo wrote:
King Ken wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:i think DSJ is a better passer than he is credited for imo. he would def make things easier for Ayton in my eyes. he can’t be worse than Melton or the other phx guards

He is not cheap. Dallas wants comp value. They aren't giving him away for an early 2nd

suns should move maybe josh jackson/Tj warren for him

that's value, that's not cheap.

Post #1802 » by **VCfor3** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:35 am

nolang1 wrote:
twomangame wrote:Can someone explain why JJJ has seemingly sub-par rebounding numbers? I've only watched a couple of Memphis games.

Not the best hands, has a tendency to chase blocks, not concerned with stat-padding uncontested rebounds, spends a lot of time guarding stretch players. He wasn't the greatest rebounder in college either.

He also needs to be more aggressive in going for rebounds. He doesn't crash the glass all that often for a big. His contested rebound percentage is actually pretty good.

Oscar9992 · Post #1803 » by **Oscar9992** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:01 am

Good game from JJ - 23 Pts & 4 Rebounds

clyde21 · Post #1804 » by **clyde21** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:03 am

Oscar9992 wrote:Good game from JJ - 23 Pts & 4 Rebounds

love JJ, but a guy like him should be getting 10 boards a game easy. he really wasn't a great rebounder in college either.

Ascrilas · Post #1805 » by **Ascrilas** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:05 am

I still think it's insane that JJJ has a lower TRB% than Doncic.

Bob8 · Post #1806 » by **Bob8** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:38 pm

Read on Twitter

/photo/1

Johnny Firpo · Post #1807 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 5:43 pm

Ascrilas wrote:I still think it's insane that JJJ has a lower TRB% than Doncic.

Doncic is an elite rebounder, always has been, and we knew thanks to Hollinger that rebounding is the single most "translatable" skill from Europe to the NBA, so I don't see how that's insane. It was clear that Doncic was going to be a Lebron-level rebounder. We also knew JJJ is not a good rebounder, so again, how is that insane?

Ascrilas · Post #1808 » by **Ascrilas** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:55 pm

Johnny Firpo wrote:
Ascrilas wrote:I still think it's insane that JJJ has a lower TRB% than Doncic.

Doncic is an elite rebounder, always has been, and we knew thanks to Hollinger that rebounding is the single most "translatable" skill from Europe to the NBA, so I don't see how that's insane. It was clear that Doncic was going to be a Lebron-level rebounder. We also knew JJJ is not a good rebounder, so again, how is that insane?

You don't think it's surprising that a 6'11 player with a 7'5 wingspan is such a bad rebounder? Sure, he was not good in college, but still had close to 10 REB/36 and you'd expect him to improve in that aspect (Towns for example had something around 11.5 REB/36 which really isn't that great for college either and is an elite rebounder in the NBA now). But instead, he's avg 6.6 reb per 36. To me, that's insane.
Doncic was just for reference. As good as he is in that aspect, there's no way JJJ should get that few boards given his physical tools. Many people ragged on Porzingis's rebounding, so JJJ as the elite prospect that he is should get criticism, too.

Post #1809 » by **Texas Chuck** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:04 pm

Ascrilas wrote:You don't think it's surprising that a 6'11 player with a 7'5 wingspan is such a bad rebounder?

I think its more a misunderstanding about defensive rebounding vs offensive rebounding. Offensive rebounding is an individual pursuit rather than a team one and athleticism and length plays a major role--plus having a role on a team that gives you the freedom to attack the glass instead of having defensive responsibilities.

Defensive rebounding is much more about positioning and team concepts. Lots and lots of elite defensive rebounders weren't particularly tall, long, or athletic. But they took up space, they got their body into the offensive player, and they were committed to making effort.

Take my boy Dirk. Not seen historically as a great rebounder because he almost never got offensive rebounds because he played further away from the basket and he always had the responsibility to be the big who got back leaving more athletic guys to crash the glass. But it would probably surprise a bunch of posters here to learn he was the equal of KG and Duncan as a post-season defensive rebounder and better than Dream.

Now maybe Jackson can become a rebounder. Dirk wasn't a good rebounder either when he entered the league. But rebounding is one of those areas where you generally are what you are. You either rebound right away or you never do.

Ascrilas · Post #1810 » by **Ascrilas** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:13 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
Ascrilas wrote:You don't think it's surprising that a 6'11 player with a 7'5 wingspan is such a bad rebounder?

I think its more a misunderstanding about defensive rebounding vs offensive rebounding. Offensive rebounding is an individual pursuit rather than a team one and athleticism and length plays a major role--plus having a role on a team that gives you the freedom to attack the glass instead of having defensive responsibilities.

Defensive rebounding is much more about positioning and team concepts. Lots and lots of elite defensive rebounders weren't particularly tall, long, or athletic. But they took up space, they got their body into the offensive player, and they were committed to making effort.

Take my boy Dirk. Not seen historically as a great rebounder because he almost never got offensive rebounds because he played further away from the basket and he always had the responsibility to be the big who got back leaving more athletic guys to crash the glass. But it would probably surprise a bunch of posters here to learn he was the equal of KG and Duncan as a post-season defensive rebounder and better than Dream.

Now maybe Jackson can become a rebounder. Dirk wasn't a good rebounder either when he entered the league. But rebounding is one of those areas where you generally are what you are. You either rebound right away or you never do.

Agree, but even with defensive rebounding, physical traits help a lot. Whether by being long, by being mobile or by being Barkley-esque thicc (don't know how to express this differently). I mean, Dirk is literally 7'0 so it shouldn't be surprising that he's an elite rebounder (with numbers skewed by his offensive role. It's one thing being a bad rebounder, and another thing being as bad as JJJ. Still, Dirk is an apt comparison I think given how atrocious he was on the boards early in his career. I think JJJ can definitely become a good rebounder (he's probably not done growing either), but I find his lack of aggression in this regard a bit concerning.

juanc · Post #1811 » by **juanc** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:55 pm

Great timing and feeling for where the ball is going to bounce is more important than lenght and atletical ability when it comes to rebounding

Bob8 · Post #1812 » by **Bob8** » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:05 pm

If you’re guarding perimeter, you won’t get that many rebounds. If you’re guarding the best outside threats, you won’t get it either. JJJ rebounding is kinda negative influenced by his good defense. Put him on C position and he will double his rebounding numbers.

leolozon · Post #1813 » by **leolozon** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:45 am

Well Doncic acted stupidly by kicking that ball. Worst game in a while. Dallas were still in the game, he has to learn to control his emotions.

NoDopeOnSundays · Post #1814 » by **NoDopeOnSundays** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:10 am

Kevin Huerter is pretty good

Imon · Post #1815 » by **Imon** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:24 am

leolozon wrote:Well Doncic acted stupid by kicking that ball. Worst game in a while. Dallas were still in the game, he has to learn to control his emotions.

Yeah, that was a really dumb move. He'll still a teenager - hopefully he'll get better at controlling his emotions.

Oscar9992 · Post #1816 » by **Oscar9992** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:53 am

Bad game by Doncic & Ejection... But it was overreaction for kicking the ball.

Johnny Firpo · Post #1817 » by **Johnny Firpo** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:00 am

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:Kevin Huerter is pretty good

He really is. One of my favorite rookies.

King Ken · Post #1818 » by **King Ken** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:10 am

Pretty good day for Kevin and Omari. Trae struggled with Smart and Rozier. Wasn't too bad when guarded by Kyrie but the others gave him fits as well as playing with the flu.

Kevin had his best game all around today. Offense and defense was top notch for him. He matches up really well v. Boston

Sactowndog · Post #1819 » by **Sactowndog** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:07 pm

Ascrilas wrote:I still think it's insane that JJJ has a lower TRB% than Doncic.

Look where they are often positioned on defense. With Gasol, JJJ is often on the opposing teams perimeter player creating match-up problems with his length. Doncic meanwhile is most often in help position one step outside the key waiting for rebounds. Doncic should have way more rebounds just by catching the balls that fall at his feet.

gh123 · Post #1820 » by **gh123** » Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:13 pm

Sactowndog wrote:
Ascrilas wrote:I still think it's insane that JJJ has a lower TRB% than Doncic.

Look where they are often positioned on defense. With Gasol, JJJ is often on the opposing teams perimeter player creating match-up problems with his length. Doncic meanwhile is most often in help position one step outside the key waiting for rebounds. Doncic should have way more rebounds just by catching the balls that fall at his feet.

He would, but Daj camps by Luka's feet before opposing players release the ball.

Who do you think are the best two rookies?