Moderators: Jeff Van Gully, Deeeez Knicks, HerSports85, j4remi, NoLayupRule, dakomish23, GONYK, mpharris36
I'll give Fiz this, if what he's doing with Frank is actually instilling confidence in him, then he's doing a good jobSpree2Houston wrote:Frank had confidence in himself. You could see it in his face yesterday.
B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:it would be pretty awesome if frank could get on andre's level defensively. OKC would've went to the WCF if he stayed healthy last season IMO. he was a legit DPOY candidate. i also don't think frank is a liability on offense like andre. it's always 4 on 5 when andre is on the floor. teams dont even put a body on him. frank can at least hit a couple of jumpers.
I'm interested in what Frank would need to step up to get to Andre's level on the defensive end.
Andre certainly gets more blocks. So that's one thing, whatever way. ...
Height is hard to guess, hops too. But Andre seems to be ~2inches taller than Frank. Not sure about reach. So .. maybe Frank needs to grow a little, maybe he needs to gamble a little more (would be nice if he could know that wouldn't be punished by being pulled by the coach), maybe he needs to work on power more so his jump has another couple of inches.
After that I'm reaching. Probably from not paying enough attention to Andre's work.
What else should Frank improve, in your view?
taj2133 wrote:frank is fine with mudiay starting
Ian Begley
ESPN Staff Writer
Frank Ntilikina hasn't lost confidence during this up-and-down sophomore season in New York. "I know my ceiling. I know where I can go at the end of my career. I know what I can do and what is required to get there. It's not going to be easy to get there, but I'm still confident in my abilities and what I can do in the future," he said after Monday's loss to OKC. Ntilikina also supports David Fizdale's decision to continue to use him as a backup point guard to Emmanuel Mudiay. "Coach has experience. As players we trust him doing the best for our team, to build our team. If he thinks that's the best role for me let's do it. I'm going to be behind him and I respect his choice. I'm going to play hard every time he calls me to step on the court."
http://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks
3toheadmelo wrote:B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:it would be pretty awesome if frank could get on andre's level defensively. OKC would've went to the WCF if he stayed healthy last season IMO. he was a legit DPOY candidate. i also don't think frank is a liability on offense like andre. it's always 4 on 5 when andre is on the floor. teams dont even put a body on him. frank can at least hit a couple of jumpers.
I'm interested in what Frank would need to step up to get to Andre's level on the defensive end.
Andre certainly gets more blocks. So that's one thing, whatever way. ...
Height is hard to guess, hops too. But Andre seems to be ~2inches taller than Frank. Not sure about reach. So .. maybe Frank needs to grow a little, maybe he needs to gamble a little more (would be nice if he could know that wouldn't be punished by being pulled by the coach), maybe he needs to work on power more so his jump has another couple of inches.
After that I'm reaching. Probably from not paying enough attention to Andre's work.
What else should Frank improve, in your view?
To be honest I have not watched much games recently so I am not sure where frank is right now defensively but I would say sometimes he gets too aggressive and ends up in foul trouble. he should probably work on that I guess
ny-n-md wrote:These comments by Fiz and Frank have been the most encouraging comments I’ve seen ALL SEASON. Perhaps Fiz isn’t out on him as his PG. I really want him to start but this season is a wrap anyway. I am so sick of Mudiay and don’t really want him back.
B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:I'm interested in what Frank would need to step up to get to Andre's level on the defensive end.
Andre certainly gets more blocks. So that's one thing, whatever way. ...
Height is hard to guess, hops too. But Andre seems to be ~2inches taller than Frank. Not sure about reach. So .. maybe Frank needs to grow a little, maybe he needs to gamble a little more (would be nice if he could know that wouldn't be punished by being pulled by the coach), maybe he needs to work on power more so his jump has another couple of inches.
After that I'm reaching. Probably from not paying enough attention to Andre's work.
What else should Frank improve, in your view?
To be honest I have not watched much games recently so I am not sure where frank is right now defensively but I would say sometimes he gets too aggressive and ends up in foul trouble. he should probably work on that I guess
lel
I think it is worthwhile looking at Frank's D since there's lots of chat about his O.
I don't accept that he's fallen off since last year in intensity - by eye-test. And actually I don't think, at least at the moment, he's getting into real foul trouble. We could get to the stats, but (i) he's played out of position (on defence) so much and (ii) has such terrible teams on D a lot of the time, so it's really hard to evaluate them.
A couple of places he does get burnt:
(i) JJRedick-style, small, quick-first-step guards rubbing him off (double) screens (but not Russ/DRose/.. ball-dominant PGs) - I talked about this a couple of months ago... Needs work, but also needs to be playing with Mitch/KP/Noah(???) who can step into the gap whilst Frank chases behind.
(ii) When he switches onto a ~6'9" forward who lurks somewhere near the corner of the opposing side of the key from the ball in the post and Frank wants to either (a) switch back to his man or, more often, (b) wants to play help D on someone posting up, and he's not aware of his switched guy cutting to the hoop. (ii) happens about once every 2/2.5 games .. and Frank looks as sour as can be every time it happens and he hasn't gambled for the steal/tie up. That needs work. Also a longer leash to risk - he has consistently been pulled too swiftly for 2 fouls in a half, particularly now that he knows more about the zebra-habits in the nba, imo, although this may be changing as we watch (given last night's game). Although possibly those two things are contradictory.
Other than that I haven't strong criticisms that I can think of right now. But I, for sure, can be missing some (may be even obvious) things.
I'd be truely interested to hear other views - obviously 3to's, but also anyone else's. It would be good to get more concrete opinions rather than just "Frank is better/worse on D than last year".
GONYK wrote:B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:To be honest I have not watched much games recently so I am not sure where frank is right now defensively but I would say sometimes he gets too aggressive and ends up in foul trouble. he should probably work on that I guess
lel
I think it is worthwhile looking at Frank's D since there's lots of chat about his O.
I don't accept that he's fallen off since last year in intensity - by eye-test. And actually I don't think, at least at the moment, he's getting into real foul trouble. We could get to the stats, but (i) he's played out of position (on defence) so much and (ii) has such terrible teams on D a lot of the time, so it's really hard to evaluate them.
A couple of places he does get burnt:
(i) JJRedick-style, small, quick-first-step guards rubbing him off (double) screens (but not Russ/DRose/.. ball-dominant PGs) - I talked about this a couple of months ago... Needs work, but also needs to be playing with Mitch/KP/Noah(???) who can step into the gap whilst Frank chases behind.
(ii) When he switches onto a ~6'9" forward who lurks somewhere near the corner of the opposing side of the key from the ball in the post and Frank wants to either (a) switch back to his man or, more often, (b) wants to play help D on someone posting up, and he's not aware of his switched guy cutting to the hoop. (ii) happens about once every 2/2.5 games .. and Frank looks as sour as can be every time it happens and he hasn't gambled for the steal/tie up. That needs work. Also a longer leash to risk - he has consistently been pulled too swiftly for 2 fouls in a half, particularly now that he knows more about the zebra-habits in the nba, imo, although this may be changing as we watch (given last night's game). Although possibly those two things are contradictory.
Other than that I haven't strong criticisms that I can think of right now. But I, for sure, can be missing some (may be even obvious) things.
I'd be truely interested to hear other views - obviously 3to's, but also anyone else's. It would be good to get more concrete opinions rather than just "Frank is better/worse on D than last year".
It's hard to compare Frank's defense from this year to last because it's not an apples to apples comparison.
Last year, Frank was excellent on ball when he was paired with KP, who is one of the best rim protectors in the game.
This year, he's been moved around a bunch and has been surrounded by almost exclusively terrible defenders.
The closest situation that matches last season was when he shared the floor with Mitch. During that stretch of games, Frank's defense was very good and his personal metrics, as well as the team's defensive metrics, support that.
fatalogic wrote:GONYK wrote:B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:lel
I think it is worthwhile looking at Frank's D since there's lots of chat about his O.
I don't accept that he's fallen off since last year in intensity - by eye-test. And actually I don't think, at least at the moment, he's getting into real foul trouble. We could get to the stats, but (i) he's played out of position (on defence) so much and (ii) has such terrible teams on D a lot of the time, so it's really hard to evaluate them.
A couple of places he does get burnt:
(i) JJRedick-style, small, quick-first-step guards rubbing him off (double) screens (but not Russ/DRose/.. ball-dominant PGs) - I talked about this a couple of months ago... Needs work, but also needs to be playing with Mitch/KP/Noah(???) who can step into the gap whilst Frank chases behind.
(ii) When he switches onto a ~6'9" forward who lurks somewhere near the corner of the opposing side of the key from the ball in the post and Frank wants to either (a) switch back to his man or, more often, (b) wants to play help D on someone posting up, and he's not aware of his switched guy cutting to the hoop. (ii) happens about once every 2/2.5 games .. and Frank looks as sour as can be every time it happens and he hasn't gambled for the steal/tie up. That needs work. Also a longer leash to risk - he has consistently been pulled too swiftly for 2 fouls in a half, particularly now that he knows more about the zebra-habits in the nba, imo, although this may be changing as we watch (given last night's game). Although possibly those two things are contradictory.
Other than that I haven't strong criticisms that I can think of right now. But I, for sure, can be missing some (may be even obvious) things.
I'd be truely interested to hear other views - obviously 3to's, but also anyone else's. It would be good to get more concrete opinions rather than just "Frank is better/worse on D than last year".
It's hard to compare Frank's defense from this year to last because it's not an apples to apples comparison.
Last year, Frank was excellent on ball when he was paired with KP, who is one of the best rim protectors in the game.
This year, he's been moved around a bunch and has been surrounded by almost exclusively terrible defenders.
The closest situation that matches last season was when he shared the floor with Mitch. During that stretch of games, Frank's defense was very good and his personal metrics, as well as the team's defensive metrics, support that.
One thing I noticed was less aggression which isn’t always bad. Last year he could be aggressive to a fault whereas this season it looks like he is picking his spots more, and picking up less dumb fouls.
GONYK wrote:ny-n-md wrote:These comments by Fiz and Frank have been the most encouraging comments I’ve seen ALL SEASON. Perhaps Fiz isn’t out on him as his PG. I really want him to start but this season is a wrap anyway. I am so sick of Mudiay and don’t really want him back.
I agree. It's very good to hear Fiz talk about Frank in a sense that implies a future and a plan.
j4remi wrote:This article really took everything I've had a problem with, dug into the numbers and laid it all out. Click that ish and read;
https://knicksfilmschool.com/2019/01/23/is-frank-ntilikina-the-answer-to-all-of-david-fizdales-lineup-shuffling/
frank shouldn't have any roster-dependent limitation on his minutes. if you need to sit frank because of his play from time to time, cool. but in feb-april frank shouldn't be sitting because of mudiay's minutes. j4remi wrote:This article really took everything I've had a problem with, dug into the numbers and laid it all out. Click that ish and read;
https://knicksfilmschool.com/2019/01/23/is-frank-ntilikina-the-answer-to-all-of-david-fizdales-lineup-shuffling/
K-DOT wrote:j4remi wrote:This article really took everything I've had a problem with, dug into the numbers and laid it all out. Click that ish and read;
https://knicksfilmschool.com/2019/01/23/is-frank-ntilikina-the-answer-to-all-of-david-fizdales-lineup-shuffling/
Stats that I found relevant, and unsurprisingSpoiler:
And I agree with anyone saying that those sample sizes are, for the most part, too small to extrapolate. But they should at least be given enough minutes to see if it's for real or just a flash in the pan, not just pushed to the side
I think this sums up my feelings on the situation as well:Spoiler:
There's 3 options I can see. Fizdale is either tanking, showcasing Mudiay for a trade, or is just incompetent. My only thing I wanted this year was to see development of the young guys, and it's been a mixed bag so far. However, given Fiz's recent quote about Frank, about his role going forward, I think he understands that Frank can be a valuable piece for us in the future, and is trying to develop him by bringing him along slowly, then when we're trying to win will use him to elevate the play of the rest of the team (like how when you're cooking, salt is essential but never the main ingredient). We'll know for sure in a couple weeks though
Jeff Van Gully wrote:j4remi wrote:This article really took everything I've had a problem with, dug into the numbers and laid it all out. Click that ish and read;
https://knicksfilmschool.com/2019/01/23/is-frank-ntilikina-the-answer-to-all-of-david-fizdales-lineup-shuffling/
great read.
i get kicking the tires on mudiay. i feel like what we've learned is that he has improved. he's better and more consistent than he had shown in denver. and with all of that said, your team is not going to win basketball games with him as a high-usage lead guard. seems like an ideal reserve at this stage in his career. and do you want to pay him a significant salary when you have other reserve options? i say no.
but developing him before the trade deadline could lead to a return on that time investment in the way of picks or cap relief.
RIP mags