Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[nate33]

Wall and Morris for Conley?

I think this was floated on this board several months ago.

I'd do it. I doubt Memphis would, but it's plausible from the standpoint that they'd rather have a "star" locked in long term than cap room in a market that doesn't attract free agents.

It would make for an interesting summer in 2021. Conley, Beal and Porter would all come off the books at the same time.

[VCfor3]

Wall and Morris for Conley?

I think this was floated on this board several months ago.

I'd do it. I doubt Memphis would, but it's plausible from the standpoint that they'd rather have a "star" locked in long term than cap room in a market that doesn't attract free agents.

It would make for an interesting summer in 2021. Conley, Beal and Porter would all come of the books at the same time.

I think the value may not be terrible (though I'd prefer Conley just because of the cap hit which is ironic to say), but Memphis will look to rebuild if they move Conley. Maybe Wall goes out in a 3 team deal but otherwise it's tough.

[NatP4]

Chasson Randle for Troy Brown Jr? Ariza for Devin Robinson? Play the young talent

[payitforward]

...I’m guessing that it’s a much more serious injury than you seem to believe.

Zards, I don't have the faintest notion of what that injury is! I'm going to need to check back in to the Holiday Inn Express. Or... I know; I'll ask Alexa....

"Hey Alexa, who's the fairest one of all?"

"Why you are, PIF, of course!"

"Tell me Alexa, does anyone else on the Wizards board approach me in wisdom?"

"Give me a second, PIF, & I'll check. ... ... ... Why, yes, PIF, a goodly number of them run circles around your sorry a$$."

"What? Alexa!?! What are you saying? I thought you were loyal! That it was like we were married!"

"Well, PIF, I guess you don't know what 'debridement,' huh?"

Glad to see you’re back on the weed PIF.

"Back"...?

[Illmatic12]

The trade never could have been made. Why? The Lakers aren’t taking Wall without a complete physical exam.

I truly question if Wall really shut it down due to injury or due to frustration.

The trade was engineered by Rich Paul, John & LeBron's agent. Apparently John was really pushing hard for this deal to be done.

The Wizards did not want to move Wall.

Wall displays questionable effort ALL season, but against the Lakers he went bonkers, playing with an energy he didn't display in any other game this season. He also didn't stand around on D or off the ball that game. He was completely engaged --- like he was for the playoffs.

This is why I've openly questioned on twitter whether Wall actually quit on the Wizards.

Maybe he was not happy he wasn't going to be traded?

The Lakers game is what I keep going back to. The injury excuse doesn't hold weight when I see the lack of effort before and after that game but he's at max effort in that one game. It simply didn't pass the eye test for me.

You can't fake or fabricate having that kind of injury Wall had.

Watch on YouTube

Anyone with a sports medicine background will tell you that Wall was most likely being given periodic steroid injections to numb the pain in his heel. If you are familiar with the type of injury he had, the average person would barely be able to run - much less play 40mpg of NBA basketball -- without receiving pain injections (which wear off after a several days).

When Wall went 0-5 vs Cleveland on 12/8 and then missed the following game , what do you think happened? You think he went on vacation to the Bahamas? No.. what happened is the team docs shot his ankle up with cortisone and he was able to have 3 good games against Boston/Brooklyn/LAL before the pain flared up again . He didn't just "decide" to show more effort , the reason why his performance fluctuated all season is because of the pain treatment.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4237/john-wall


Fans don't understand what some of these guys at the professional level really go through in order to play games. It's easy to sit back and pass judgment without really knowing what's going on. At this point we should all be hoping that Wall can finally get the treatment and recovery his body needs to be at 100% health, instead of being in this cycle of numbing the pain while potentially worsening longterm injuries.

[Dat2U]

The trade never could have been made. Why? The Lakers aren’t taking Wall without a complete physical exam.

I truly question if Wall really shut it down due to injury or due to frustration.

The trade was engineered by Rich Paul, John & LeBron's agent. Apparently John was really pushing hard for this deal to be done.

The Wizards did not want to move Wall.

Wall displays questionable effort ALL season, but against the Lakers he went bonkers, playing with an energy he didn't display in any other game this season. He also didn't stand around on D or off the ball that game. He was completely engaged --- like he was for the playoffs.

This is why I've openly questioned on twitter whether Wall actually quit on the Wizards.

Maybe he was not happy he wasn't going to be traded?

The Lakers game is what I keep going back to. The injury excuse doesn't hold weight when I see the lack of effort before and after that game but he's at max effort in that one game. It simply didn't pass the eye test for me.

You can't fake or fabricate having that kind of injury Wall had.

Watch on YouTube

Anyone with a sports medicine background will tell you that Wall was most likely being given periodic steroid injections to numb the pain in his heel. If you are familiar with the type of injury he had, the average person would barely be able to run - much less play 40mpg of NBA basketball -- without receiving pain injections (which wear off after a several days).

When Wall went 0-5 vs Cleveland on 12/8 and then missed the following game , what do you think happened? You think he went on vacation to the Bahamas? No.. what happened is the team docs shot his ankle up with cortisone and he was able to have 3 good games against Boston/Brooklyn/LAL before the pain flared up again . He didn't just "decide" to show more effort , the reason why his performance fluctuated is because of the pain treatment.

http://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4237/john-wall


Fans don't understand what some of these guys at the professional level really go through in order to play games. It's easy to sit back and pass judgment without really knowing what's going on.

Excuse my language but this is bullspit.

Guys play hurt all the time.

Wall has played hurt a decent chunk of his career. That's commendable. I have no doubt, on many nights during his career, Wall likely played through excruciating pain and played well.

However the way Wall played this season, especially on defense was inexcusable. He literally stopped moving. I don't care what condition your in, if you step on the court you owe it to your teammates to try and it was OBVIOUS he wasnt.

I've watched 35+ years of basketball in my fairly young life. Wall's effort defensively and off the ball was some of the worst I ever watched and we've watchef Kwame, Antwan Jamison, Andray Blatche, Nick Young & Javale McGee for long stretches, so we should know what bad effort looks like.

He's played with this injury for years. I have no doubt the injury exists but IMO the motivation to play through this injury wavered this season.

And coming into camp heavy with a bunch of added weight certainly didnt help his bad wheel. But I don't think he gave that much thought this past offseason.

[Dark Faze]

Meh. He clearly bulks heavy with strength training in the summer for the added strength. It's not a big deal, he leans out in the season. It's a good strategy. Whether or not the added weight/muscle should be an emphasis for him is another matter entirely, but we don't know his body and his situation enough to really be commenting on that. Added strength is really important for a slashing guard in todays NBA. Most likely he should put an emphasis on getting lean to save stress on his joints, but again, need more info.

And he's tried to play through the injuries the last two years and is leaving a lot to be desired defensively to compensate. How much of that is due to injury vs disinterest, I'm not sure, but it's clear injury has a lot to do with it.

There's not much to really talk about with John. As long as injury is there, it's really hard to try to judge him as a player. What we can judge him on is the concern we have about his availability moving forward in the face of that contract.

[Illmatic12]

Excuse my language but this is bullspit.

Guys play hurt all the time.

Wall has played hurt a decent chunk of his career. That's commendable. I have no doubt, on many nights during his career, Wall likely played through excruciating pain and played well.

However the way Wall played this season, especially on defense was inexcusable. He literally stopped moving. I don't care what condition your in, if you step on the court you owe it to your teammates to try and it was OBVIOUS he wasnt.

I've watched 35+ years of basketball in my fairly young life. Wall's effort defensively and off the ball was some of the worst I ever watched and we've watchef Kwame, Antwan Jamison, Andray Blatche, Nick Young & Javale McGee for long stretches, so we should know what bad effort looks like.

He's played with this injury for years. I have no doubt the injury exists but IMO the motivation to play through this injury wavered this season.

And coming into camp heavy with a bunch of added weight certainly didnt help his bad wheel. But I don't think he gave that much thought this past offseason.

There are not many players who play hurt more than Wall does. It is an anomaly, at least in the NBA, for a star/franchise player of John Wall's stature and workload to play through injuries with the frequency that he has over his career. Look at Kawhi Leonard taking time off to rest whenever he feels like it. Curry or KD can sit out weeks at a time. John has never had the kind of luxury that players enjoy on well-managed franchises.


Instead of protecting John from himself, the Wizards FO continued dragging him out there because they know even a limping Wall will help them recruit season ticket holders. This is the second season in a row where the Wizards allowed John to play through injury until it worsened to the point of having to shut him down.

I don't understand how someone can sit here and say the injury wasn't heavily affecting his movement. He literally had to be shutdown for the season. Like how is that not a clear indication that his play was severely inhibited by injury. Wall lost his "motivation" to play , in the same way that Alex Smith recently lost his "motivation" to do jumping jacks.

[Rafael122]

Chris Miller is a shill, so was J. Michael but even they basically called Wall stubborn for always playing through injuries. I don't think Wall quit on the team, I just think that lately, probably ever since he switched agents, he's been leaning towards sitting games out rather than fighting through it. It sounded like Wall was close to tearing his Achilles, which meant we really would have been **** then.

Anyway, as we've seen with superstar trades, normally the return isn't what most people expected. Hindsight is 20/20, but I wonder if we had kept Oubre, would Memphis go for a Mahinmi/Oubre/'19 1st rounder (lottery protected) for Gasol. The thing with Gasol is he has an opt out this offseason. Unless he tells teams he's picking it up, it makes no sense to offer a core guy for him.

[Ruzious]

Meh. He clearly bulks heavy with strength training in the summer for the added strength. It's not a big deal, he leans out in the season. It's a good strategy. Whether or not the added weight/muscle should be an emphasis for him is another matter entirely, but we don't know his body and his situation enough to really be commenting on that. Added strength is really important for a slashing guard in todays NBA. Most likely he should put an emphasis on getting lean to save stress on his joints, but again, need more info.

And he's tried to play through the injuries the last two years and is leaving a lot to be desired defensively to compensate. How much of that is due to injury vs disinterest, I'm not sure, but it's clear injury has a lot to do with it.

There's not much to really talk about with John. As long as injury is there, it's really hard to try to judge him as a player. What we can judge him on is the concern we have about his availability moving forward in the face of that contract.

Added strength is great, but added weight for a pro basketball player with a history of knee problems... very bad idea by John. Gotta wonder if he talked it over with the Wiz trainers - I can't believe they would have told him it made sense.

[NatP4]

Wall+Morris

For

Fox, Shumpert, Randolph

Lol

[payitforward]

...I wonder if we had kept Oubre, would Memphis go for a Mahinmi/Oubre/'19 1st rounder (lottery protected) for Gasol. The thing with Gasol is he has an opt out this offseason. Unless he tells teams he's picking it up, it makes no sense to offer a core guy for him.

What...? That would have added $6m to our salary this year, meaning we'd never have been able to get under the tax. Moreover, it would have put us at $121.5m next year - about $10m under the tax - for 5 guys.

How would we retain Satoransky, Bryant or Dekker? What if Howard picks up his option?

And, why do we want the 33-year-old Marc Gasol anyway? We going to win a title?

[Induveca]

Oooh I pray the Jazz rumor is true. Dumping Porter would be a dream scenario.

But with Leonsis’ comments I doubt it happens.

***I’d be happy to keep Porter at a 12-15M salary. I recognize he’s a good player, just nowhere close to a max player. I’d rather roll with Jeff Green and a younger/affordable player via draft or trade.

[Dat2U]

Excuse my language but this is bullspit.

Guys play hurt all the time.

Wall has played hurt a decent chunk of his career. That's commendable. I have no doubt, on many nights during his career, Wall likely played through excruciating pain and played well.

However the way Wall played this season, especially on defense was inexcusable. He literally stopped moving. I don't care what condition your in, if you step on the court you owe it to your teammates to try and it was OBVIOUS he wasnt.

I've watched 35+ years of basketball in my fairly young life. Wall's effort defensively and off the ball was some of the worst I ever watched and we've watchef Kwame, Antwan Jamison, Andray Blatche, Nick Young & Javale McGee for long stretches, so we should know what bad effort looks like.

He's played with this injury for years. I have no doubt the injury exists but IMO the motivation to play through this injury wavered this season.

And coming into camp heavy with a bunch of added weight certainly didnt help his bad wheel. But I don't think he gave that much thought this past offseason.

There are not many players who play hurt more than Wall does. It is an anomaly, at least in the NBA, for a star/franchise player of John Wall's stature and workload to play through injuries with the frequency that he has over his career. Look at Kawhi Leonard taking time off to rest whenever he feels like it. Curry or KD can sit out weeks at a time. John has never had the kind of luxury that players enjoy on well-managed franchises.


Instead of protecting John from himself, the Wizards FO continued dragging him out there because they know even a limping Wall will help them recruit season ticket holders. This is the second season in a row where the Wizards allowed John to play through injury until it worsened to the point of having to shut him down.

I don't understand how someone can sit here and say the injury wasn't heavily affecting his movement. He literally had to be shutdown for the season. Like how is that not a clear indication that his play was severely inhibited by injury. Wall lost his "motivation" to play , in the same way that Alex Smith recently lost his "motivation" to do jumping jacks.

So just curious, who do you think teammates & Brooks were calling out when they said guys didn't bring it or the effort wasn't there?

Also, what explains Wall's complete 360 in terms of explosiveness, focus and attention to detail in the Lakers game. From literally walking around one game to flying around in another, then back to walking around. It was literally stunning to watch.

I have no problem putting some of the blame on the Wizards for letting him walk around like that but chemistry was absolutely wrecked ... until he got surgery. This was just not about Wall not being healthy, this also about Wall as a teammate, as a leader as the face of the franchise. And he's largely responsible for the disaster this season has become.

And keep in mind I've been one of Wall's staunchest supporters in the past but at some point I got to call how I see it.

[dckingsfan]

Oooh I pray the Jazz rumor is true. Dumping Porter would be a dream scenario.

But with Leonsis’ comments I doubt it happens.

***I’d be happy to keep Porter at a 12-15M salary. I recognize he’s a good player, just nowhere close to a max player. I’d rather roll with Jeff Green and a younger/affordable player via draft or trade.

Come on Indu - you love Porter, even at his current salary. And you should be behind Leonsis comment - we will never tank or trade Porter.

Having said that - if you were going to do a straight salary dump, wouldn't you rather do it with the Kings, where you could actually get a true salary dump?

[dckingsfan]

So just curious, who do you think teammates & Brooks were calling out when they said guys didn't bring it or the effort wasn't there?

Also, what explains Wall's complete 360 in terms of explosiveness, focus and attention to detail in the Lakers game. From literally walking around one game to flying around in another, then back to walking around. It was literally stunning to watch.

I have no problem putting some of the blame on the Wizards for letting him walk around like that but chemistry was absolutely wrecked ... until he got surgery. This was just not about Wall not being healthy, this also about Wall as a teammate, as a leader as the face of the franchise. And he's largely responsible for the disaster this season has become.

And keep in mind I've been one of Wall's staunchest supporters in the past but at some point I got to call how I see it.

Next season, they need to bring him off the bench with a minutes restriction. Once he is not starting, I think he will figure it out. Either that or he will be the one requesting the trade.

[80sballboy]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[Dark Faze]

There's no reason to trade Porter at this point. The team is going to have a number of solid rotation guys available around the minimum: Green, Troy Brown, First round pick next year, Dekker, Bryant.

Things can still get awfully tight financially assuming Dwight opts in, which is why Ariza and Kieff will be gone. A lot depends on the sato contract.

The summer of KD's series of contracts were so bad that I don't understand how EG has a job based on the financials of the team alone, let alone anything regarding the teams play.

[eminence]

What is Washington looking for if Utah really are interested in Porter? Really like him as a player. Does primarily expirings (say Rubio/Thabo/???) and a pick get it done?

[nate33]

Wall+Morris

For

Fox, Shumpert, Randolph

Lol

I posited a Wall for Fox and filler trade during the middle of the season last year when Fox didn't look so good. Obviously, there's no chance such a deal could happen now.