ImageImageImageImageImage

Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas)

Moderators: og15, TrueLAfan

User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

General Explanation of Bird Rights 

Post#1001 » by Ranma » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:42 pm

GeetIt wrote:So how do bird rights work? Can the clippers go over the salary resigning the likes of Tobias Harris and Nikola Vucevic after they sign a max free agent? Is there a deadline to resign bird rights eligible players? Because if clippers can go over the cap next off season by not signing Tobias until they get their max players inked this kind of seems like a loophole. Hold as many bird rights players as possible with an expiring contract. Use the salary cap space for other free agents. Then go over the cap by resigning the current players. I would definitely trade for Vucevic if this was the case. This is all assuming that Ballmer is willing to pay.


It's not really a loophole but more of a minor benefit in most years. Yes, the Clippers can go over the salary cap to re-sign players they have Bird rights to such as Tobias Harris and, theoretically, Nikola Vucevic as long as we don't reach the hard cap, which for the purpose of this exercise won't apply. I don't believe there is a deadline to re-sign a player using his Bird rights, but impending unrestricted free agents such as Tobias and Vucevic can sign with any team they want once free agency opens and the respective Bird rights expire as soon as that happens, obviously.

The problem with your scenario and why it's not really a loophole is that teams who have players they have Bird rights to are also assigned a cap hold for each player. The cap hold goes against the salary cap at I think an added 20-25% of their most recent season salary until such players re-sign with their team, sign a deal with a new team or have their rights renounced by the team holding their Bird rights.

In your hypothetical scenario, let's say we acquired Vucevic for Marcin Gortat and a future first-round pick with multiple protections. Gortat actually makes a little more this season than Vucevic does, but it really doesn't give us practical cap savings since we're most likely going to renounce Gortat's rights once the season ends thus freeing up cap space while we'd have to retain Vucevic's current salary + 20-25% in order to retain his Bird rights.

If we retained Tobias, Vucevic and don't trade away Danilo Gallinari, the Clippers won't have enough free cap space to sign even one premier free agent because of their respective cap holds. Of course, we can decide to renounce the rights to either Tobias or Vucevic or even both should we come to an agreement with a premier free agent or two but we wouldn't be able to sign such free agents and retain both Tobias and Vucevic as well. We could, however, theoretically sign someone like Kawhi Leonard and re-sign both Tobias and Vucevic, but only if we traded Gallo away.

If you want an illustration of how signing two max free agents while retaining one of Tobias, Gallo or Vucevic would work, I refer you to my previous post citing an Athletic article in the 2019-20 Free Agent thread. From there, you can mix-and-match using the principles laid out.
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
donemilio21
Analyst
Posts: 3,123
And1: 848
Joined: Aug 20, 2009
Location: Santa Barbara
   

Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#1002 » by donemilio21 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:54 am

It looks like Marc Gasol is now available. I think he'd be an instant upgrade over Gortat and Boban.
He has a PO worth $26M for next year though.

Does anyone thing we can get him for Gortat + Bradley + 2nd rounder ? or Boban + Bradeley + Wallace ?
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Unlikely to Pursue Marc Gasol 

Post#1003 » by Ranma » Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:17 am

donemilio21 wrote:It looks like Marc Gasol is now available. I think he'd be an instant upgrade over Gortat and Boban.
He has a PO worth $26M for next year though.

Does anyone thing we can get him for Gortat + Bradley + 2nd rounder ? or Boban + Bradeley + Wallace ?


As good as he is, we're not risking him exercising a player option right before free agency when we're well positioned to actually make a big acquisition or two, especially for an aging center who won't provide much long-term benefits moving forward.
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
raferfenix
RealGM
Posts: 24,201
And1: 4,517
Joined: Apr 05, 2003

Re: Makes Sense to Put Talks on Hold Until Summer 

Post#1004 » by raferfenix » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:53 pm

Ranma wrote:
raferfenix wrote:Hey Clippers fans, curious what you think about the Bucks as a potential trade partner?

Quake Griffin wrote:I want to trade for DJ Wilson from the Bucks.

I wanted him in the draft in 2017.
He's ready now and the Bucks aren't using him as much as they could.


I don't see a fit unless there was a Middleton-Gallinari deal being discussed or the Bucks just acquiring Gallinari in order for the Clippers to clear up cap space to secure 2 max-level free agents. As such, both proposals would make more sense during the off-season when the Clips should have a better understanding or handle on who we will sign this summer.

Quake is interested in D.J. Wilson, so I guess he could be packaged in a deal for Gallo should we pursue trading him.


If the Bucks would put Middleton on the table, what do you think the Clippers would offer in return?

Middleton has been underperforming in Budenholzer's system of late at least, which doesn't let him iso or post up or use his middle game as much as he has in previous seasons.

Am interested in Gallinari considering he's more of a 3-point sniper than Middleton. The injuries make him way riskier though, and not sure of the fit on D if he is more of a PF than a SF on that end. Middleton is also younger, however, Gallinari being locked into another year could be a positive considering all the other free agents we have.

And most of our board is eating major crow about Wilson. We thought he was worthless but the last month he's been playing like an absolute monster on defense guarding multiple positions. Not sure if there's a team who would value DJ more than the Bucks right now considering the development trajectory he's shown under Bud (in stark contrast to Kidd) and the fit with Giannis.
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Dealing with the Bucks 

Post#1005 » by Ranma » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:05 pm

raferfenix wrote:If the Bucks would put Middleton on the table, what do you think the Clippers would offer in return?

Middleton has been underperforming in Budenholzer's system of late at least, which doesn't let him iso or post up or use his middle game as much as he has in previous seasons.

Am interested in Gallinari considering he's more of a 3-point sniper than Middleton. The injuries make him way riskier though, and not sure of the fit on D if he is more of a PF than a SF on that end. Middleton is also younger, however, Gallinari being locked into another year could be a positive considering all the other free agents we have.

And most of our board is eating major crow about Wilson. We thought he was worthless but the last month he's been playing like an absolute monster on defense guarding multiple positions. Not sure if there's a team who would value DJ more than the Bucks right now considering the development trajectory he's shown under Bud (in stark contrast to Kidd) and the fit with Giannis.


I still don't see a deal happening right now since, again, it would make more sense to wait to see how the summer plays out for the Clippers in free agency. With Middleton being an impending free agent, the Clippers could just sign him outright should we strike out in other avenues.

Believe it or not, Gallinari has been the Clippers' best player this season. He's definitely more of a power forward than small forward since he's also manned the center position for us on occasion. Injury will always be a concern with him, but he was healthy this season in not missing a single game...until last week and he's still out.

Having said that, the Bucks were reportedly among the teams interested in rookie Jerome Robinson at the draft, which prevented the Clippers from trading down to select him at a lower slot. The kid is a polished shooter with playmaking acumen and sneaky athleticism, though not really explosive. He's got good height for the position but I don't think he has the tools to ever be a lock-down defender and he currently needs work in that area as it is, but that's not surprising for most rookies.

Maybe we can deal Gallinari for Middleton if Gallo will be out for a little while longer, but Gallo provides so much for the Clips right now. At the same time, it might allow for Tobias Harris to play the 4 more or allow Montrezl Harrell to start there if the Clippers acquire a solid role player at center.

I can also see trading Robinson for Middleton in a sign-and-trade in the off-season depending on what will happen in the summer. I'm not sure how D.J. Wilson would fit into the mix since I'm not really familiar with his game, to be honest.

Basically, I can see Gallinari and/or Robinson in play for Middleton but that's based on contingencies that have yet to happen so I'm not really inclined to make a deal right now.


Ranma wrote:
Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Taurean Prince on the Table for the Hawks' Fire Sale 

Post#1006 » by Ranma » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:31 pm

Taurean Prince is reportedly on the trade block for the Hawks along with Jeremy Lin, Dewayne Dedmon and Kent Bazemore.

I know a few of us on this board wanted Prince in the 2016 draft when were were looking to fill the void at SF while I was more in the DeAndre Bembry camp. I liked Prince's physical tools but I just liked Bembry's instincts more. The prospect I primarily targeted was Juan Hernangomez but he was taken 15th overall by the Nuggets while Prince went 12th and Bembry 21st. Doc went with Brice Johnson at 25th overall when I wanted Furkan Korkmaz, who went immediately after Brice.

Interestingly enough, Pascal Siakam went 27th overall and I certainly missed on him but I'm curious if Jerry West and/or Lawrence Frank would have known enough about the kid to make the right call had they been in place to evaluate the draft for the Clippers then. Dejounte Murray, Skal Labissiere, Malcolm Brogdon and Patrick McCaw were all also available at the time.


Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Galloisdaman
Analyst
Posts: 3,674
And1: 2,171
Joined: Mar 17, 2011

Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#1007 » by Galloisdaman » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:26 pm

Would Enes Kanter be a significant improvement over Gortat?
My eyes glaze over when reading alternative stat (not advanced stat) narratives that go many paragraphs long. If you can not make your point in 2 paragraphs it may not be a great point. :D
User avatar
Galloisdaman
Analyst
Posts: 3,674
And1: 2,171
Joined: Mar 17, 2011

Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#1008 » by Galloisdaman » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:41 pm

donemilio21 wrote:It looks like Marc Gasol is now available. I think he'd be an instant upgrade over Gortat and Boban.
He has a PO worth $26M for next year though.

Does anyone thing we can get him for Gortat + Bradley + 2nd rounder ? or Boban + Bradeley + Wallace ?


I would be surprised if Memphis traded a still legit center for 3-4 players they probably do not even want. The only way they do that is as a straight salary dump but I think they could do a lot better.
My eyes glaze over when reading alternative stat (not advanced stat) narratives that go many paragraphs long. If you can not make your point in 2 paragraphs it may not be a great point. :D
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Not Interested in Kanter 

Post#1009 » by Ranma » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:16 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:Would Enes Kanter be a significant improvement over Gortat?


Offensively, yes. Defensively, I doubt it. He's a free agent after this season and I've never been high on the guy despite his offensive talent.
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Galloisdaman
Analyst
Posts: 3,674
And1: 2,171
Joined: Mar 17, 2011

Re: Not Interested in Kanter 

Post#1010 » by Galloisdaman » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:17 pm

Ranma wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:Would Enes Kanter be a significant improvement over Gortat?


Offensively, yes. Defensively, I doubt it. He's a free agent after this season and I've never been high on the guy despite his offensive talent.


Knicks are trying to lose so they don't play him. Could be a interesting rental player.
My eyes glaze over when reading alternative stat (not advanced stat) narratives that go many paragraphs long. If you can not make your point in 2 paragraphs it may not be a great point. :D
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Cancerous Kanter 

Post#1011 » by Ranma » Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:13 pm

Galloisdaman wrote:Knicks are trying to lose so they don't play him. Could be a interesting rental player.


I've never liked his attitude despite his statements of cheering on his teammates and whatnot.

Read on Twitter


Image
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
donemilio21
Analyst
Posts: 3,123
And1: 848
Joined: Aug 20, 2009
Location: Santa Barbara
   

Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#1012 » by donemilio21 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:07 am

Galloisdaman wrote:
donemilio21 wrote:It looks like Marc Gasol is now available. I think he'd be an instant upgrade over Gortat and Boban.
He has a PO worth $26M for next year though.

Does anyone thing we can get him for Gortat + Bradley + 2nd rounder ? or Boban + Bradeley + Wallace ?


I would be surprised if Memphis traded a still legit center for 3-4 players they probably do not even want. The only way they do that is as a straight salary dump but I think they could do a lot better.

yeah, what I suggest won't even be a salary dump. it will only help Memphis to lose more games and get a higher lottery pick.
User avatar
donemilio21
Analyst
Posts: 3,123
And1: 848
Joined: Aug 20, 2009
Location: Santa Barbara
   

Re: Not Interested in Kanter 

Post#1013 » by donemilio21 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:12 am

Ranma wrote:
Galloisdaman wrote:Would Enes Kanter be a significant improvement over Gortat?


Offensively, yes. Defensively, I doubt it. He's a free agent after this season and I've never been high on the guy despite his offensive talent.

IMO it will be a lateral move, he can improve rebounding and scoring a little, but we are already really bad defending against the pick and roll that he would probably make things worse.
What Kanter brings is more similar to Harrell and I think Harrell is better than Kanter too.
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Russo Talks About Marc Gasol Trade Idea 

Post#1014 » by Ranma » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:47 am

donemilio21 wrote:It looks like Marc Gasol is now available. I think he'd be an instant upgrade over Gortat and Boban.
He has a PO worth $26M for next year though.

Does anyone thing we can get him for Gortat + Bradley + 2nd rounder ? or Boban + Bradeley + Wallace ?

Galloisdaman wrote:I would be surprised if Memphis traded a still legit center for 3-4 players they probably do not even want. The only way they do that is as a straight salary dump but I think they could do a lot better.

donemilio21 wrote:yeah, what I suggest won't even be a salary dump. it will only help Memphis to lose more games and get a higher lottery pick.


Towards the end of Russo's latest podcast (see tweet below), he thinks Gasol can be had for Gortat, Teodosic, Thornwell (or Robinson) and several second-round picks. He doesn't think that the Grizzlies would be interested in Bradley unless he was packaged with Gortat, Thornwell and a couple of second-rounders for Gasol and Temple.

He goes on to propose dealing Gallo straight-up for Gasol despite recognizing that Gallo is the better player. This deal would be contingent on Gasol promising not to exercise his player option for next season prior to the trade.

I initially dismissed acquiring Gasol because of that very player option but Russo's proposal has gotten me to be open to acquiring him now, especially if the cost is low. First off, Rome is a non-starter. I'm not including him for any rental. Second, so is Gallo since the whole point of renting Gasol would be to compete for this season. Giving up Gallo defeats the purpose. Third, I wouldn't include "several" second-round picks and would be hesitant to part with even 2, to be honest. And fourth, even if Gasol exercises his player option, the Clips should be able to easily unload him for at least second-rounders.

Having said all that, I'm actually open to Russo's trade proposal and any of donemilio21's iterations of the deal, though I'd also try to keep Wallace. I just don't think we can acquire him that inexpensively and Russo acknowledges that such offers can be beaten by other suitors. Plus, that player option could destroy our off-season plans, so I might have to insist on him promising not to exercise it pre-trade unless I have an agreement in place with another team to take him later on during the summer.


Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

If Only Doc Had Such Outlook During His Time in Lob City 

Post#1015 » by Ranma » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:58 am

Read on Twitter


Image
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Clips Inquired About Lopez 

Post#1016 » by Ranma » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:04 am

The author of the piece cited in the tweet below, Paul Kasabian, is clueless as he thinks Lopez would be an odd fit for the Clippers given our "logjam down low" with Gortat, Marjanovic and Harrell. In any case, he's citing a report from the more credible Jovan Buha.

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Galloisdaman
Analyst
Posts: 3,674
And1: 2,171
Joined: Mar 17, 2011

Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#1017 » by Galloisdaman » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:40 pm

Lopez would block some shots but he is not a good rebounding center.
My eyes glaze over when reading alternative stat (not advanced stat) narratives that go many paragraphs long. If you can not make your point in 2 paragraphs it may not be a great point. :D
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Hoops Rumors' Summary of Boha Article 

Post#1018 » by Ranma » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:55 pm

Read on Twitter
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Ranma
RealGM
Posts: 14,456
And1: 4,062
Joined: Jun 13, 2011
Location: OC, CA
Contact:
       

Zach Lowe Reports on Clips' Sitch Leading Up to Trade Deadline 

Post#1019 » by Ranma » Sat Feb 2, 2019 8:33 am

Read on Twitter


Image
LA Legends: Kershaw & Koufax_ Image _IGNORED: Max Headrom-esqtvd-QRich3-EBledsoe12-alon8882-45clip
User avatar
Galloisdaman
Analyst
Posts: 3,674
And1: 2,171
Joined: Mar 17, 2011

Re: Transaction Discussion Part 3 (Trades, Free-Agency, News, Rumors & Ideas) 

Post#1020 » by Galloisdaman » Sat Feb 2, 2019 2:05 pm

Trading Lou might be waving the white flag on this season. Bev has been playing better. I wonder if a Gortat and Bradley package could bring a conditional first round pick. Something like if the team that picks them up make the semifinals than a protected future first round pick? Otherwise a second?
My eyes glaze over when reading alternative stat (not advanced stat) narratives that go many paragraphs long. If you can not make your point in 2 paragraphs it may not be a great point. :D

Return to Los Angeles Clippers