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The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams!

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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1561 » by djFan71 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:23 am

cloverleaf wrote:
djFan71 wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:I hate having to be this guy's hater, but what is with this binky stuff? He's sub-Yabu level as a prospect.

50/50 he ever reaches Theis' level.

I'll see myself out.

Wow, sub-Yabu? He needs to completely learn the game of basketball, which he may never do, but his physical tools are way past dab & arrow.


He's already got a good feel for the game, with a high BBIQ.

Really? He's a good block-chaser and decent rebounder by default. But he hardly ever knows where to be in p'n'r defense and even less so on the offensive end.
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1562 » by Dogen » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:29 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:I hate having to be this guy's hater, but what is with this binky stuff? He's sub-Yabu level as a prospect.

50/50 he ever reaches Theis' level.

I'll see myself out.


Sub-Yabu? C'mon now, totally different players, different skills.

Image

Do come back this time next year, when The Lord of Time (is that it?) has grown into his man bones a bit more.

I get it: pump the brakes on the rook. But it's exciting to see a young big with some elite-level skills that many Celtics fans have never witnessed in their time. I mean, what we talking about going back to... Tony Battie?

If Williams, as a big man picked 27th, shows any signs of becoming a solid defensive player in the rotation, we're justified to get a little binky-headed.
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1563 » by return2glory » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:45 am

Williams is tall, with great leaping ability and great length and good timing. That’s what makes him a really good shot blocker. He also has good potential as a passer.

With that said, Williams is years away from looking anything like a complete player.

The only guys young guys I’m excited about from Tatum, Brown, Rozier, Yabu, Semi and Williams is Tatum then Rozier and somewhat Semi. I also like Dozier but there isn’t playing time for him with this roster.
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1564 » by Homerclease » Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:59 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:I hate having to be this guy's hater, but what is with this binky stuff? He's sub-Yabu level as a prospect.

50/50 he ever reaches Theis' level.

I'll see myself out.

You said the same thing about Theis when he first got here.

You’ll come around
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1565 » by Captain_Caveman » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:01 pm

Homerclease wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:I hate having to be this guy's hater, but what is with this binky stuff? He's sub-Yabu level as a prospect.

50/50 he ever reaches Theis' level.

I'll see myself out.

You said the same thing about Theis when he first got here.

You’ll come around


You’d have to link that one. Not high on him, either. But he knows what he is, which is a serviceable 3rd string center.
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1566 » by Homerclease » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:15 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
Homerclease wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:I hate having to be this guy's hater, but what is with this binky stuff? He's sub-Yabu level as a prospect.

50/50 he ever reaches Theis' level.

I'll see myself out.

You said the same thing about Theis when he first got here.

You’ll come around


You’d have to link that one. Not high on him, either. But he knows what he is, which is a serviceable 3rd string center.

I don’t think you were overly critical, but were pushing for the Celtics to add another big before you came around on him. Either way, it’s fine if anyone isn’t high on Williams as some of us are but it would seem a bit hyperbolic to say he’s a sub Yabu level prospect when he’s already surpassed him in the rotation. Yabu is useless other than being a cheerful guy in the locker room

Edit: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1620353&p=60238910&hilit=Theis#p60238910

It’s folly to come out and say Williams is the next Gobert or anything like that, but it’s also folly to write off a guy his size with that much athleticism so early. Time will tell
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1567 » by bucknersrevenge » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:35 pm

Captain_Caveman wrote:
Homerclease wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:I hate having to be this guy's hater, but what is with this binky stuff? He's sub-Yabu level as a prospect.

50/50 he ever reaches Theis' level.

I'll see myself out.

You said the same thing about Theis when he first got here.

You’ll come around


You’d have to link that one. Not high on him, either. But he knows what he is, which is a serviceable 3rd string center.


I think people are just high on the raw talent right now. If Yabu is higher as a prospect right now it's solely based on him being in the organization longer but that's it. There are "shades of Clint Capela" there with Williams but like with Capela it's gonna take a few years for it to fully realize.
and that's "MR. Irrelevant" to you!!

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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1568 » by Elrod is Back » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:19 pm

Williams is a world-class athlete, arguably in the first tier of 6-10 or taller players in the league today, and the first tier includes no more than three or four other guys. He also has an unreal wingspan, which make his defensive potential absolutely off-the-charts.

The issue with all bigmen is whether they really love to play basketball, whether they are hyper-competitive, and whether they are willing to work their asses off. If the first two conditions are met, the third condition usually is answered in the affirmative.

Let's face it, if you are 6-9 or taller you are probably playing basketball whether you like it or not as a teenager. If you are a good athlete you definitely are. It is great. You are no longer a geek but now you are a star jock. Women suddenly find you a lot more attractive. Guys think you are smart and cool. Your teachers cut you slack in school if that is not your thing. Life is sweet.

But that wears off after a while and those three conditions kick in. NBA history is littered with gifted big men who never panned out because they did not really like the game that much and they were not competitive individuals. Think of Darko Milicic or Patrick O'Bryant for recent Celtics examples. Or endless lottery washouts like Benoit Benjamin, Joe Barry Carroll, Hakeem Thabeet, Meyers Leonard off the top of my head. The list goes on and on and on. The list of bigs who had much less athletic ability but were workaholic hyper-competitive basketball fanatics is likewise telling: Kendrick Perkins, Ben Wallace, Bill Laimbeer, Clifford Ray. That list goes on and on too.

Of course, when you get someone who meets the three conditions and is also a mind-bending athlete, you get a superstar for the ages: Bill Russell, Hakeem Olajuwon, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

The jury is still way out on Williams, as far as I am concerned. The hopeful signs: he seems to have a surprisingly good feel for passing, which suggests to me that his basketball IQ may account for some of his defensive prowess, not just crazy athleticism.

It is also good that the Cs are bringing him along slowly so he will develop good habits. The worst thing that could happen to Williams would be to go to a **** team where he played a lot and never learned any discipline because he was "the man," and driving fans wild with his blocks and dunks. An example of that phenomenon would be Antoine Walker, who played early on and was the best player on the team and who was completely satisfied with himself and never improved. Walker washed out of the league by age 30, when he should have been in his prime.

The grounds for concern are what seems like a lethargic gait as he proceeds down the floor, and the ease with which he is pushed out of the way for rebounds. You would hope that a guy like Williams, who rarely gets on the floor and then usually for brief shifts, would play like there is no tomorrow. Instead he sometimes appears more like Mark Blount than Kevin Garnett or Marcus Smart or Dave Cowens. The intensity wavers.

But some guys are just wired that way and it masks a competitive rage. Kareem and Walt Frazier were like that. That, to me, is the issue that will determine what sort of career he has. The sky is the limit, but the Philippines League is also in sight.
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1569 » by peachbucket » Fri Jan 25, 2019 8:17 pm

I think the Time Lord will be the X factor in not having to include Jason Tatum in a potenti deal for AD. Despite the fact that casual fans don't know who he is, GM's around the league certainly do...he has shown DPOY potential and may actually have more value than Jaylen Brown.

I don't think anyone beating a package of Brown, Williams, Horford, and Clippers/Memphis picks. Also wouldn't be surprised if Horford finds his way back to Boston in this scenario on short money.
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1570 » by djFan71 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:06 pm

peachbucket wrote:I think the Time Lord will be the X factor in not having to include Jason Tatum in a potenti deal for AD. Despite the fact that casual fans don't know who he is, GM's around the league certainly do...he has shown DPOY potential and may actually have more value than Jaylen Brown.

I don't think anyone beating a package of Brown, Williams, Horford, and Clippers/Memphis picks. Also wouldn't be surprised if Horford finds his way back to Boston in this scenario on short money.

Not sure I agree with much of that, but I'm almost positive the Horford coming back part can't happen. If he's included in the trade, his money for next year has to be guaranteed (ie, he picks up his option). Then there's a 1 year restriction for us reacquiring him. I'm not sure what would happen if he got bought out, if we could get him then or not, but I doubt it.

Brown/Williams/2 picks/salary is definitely enticing - MEM falling apart is making it a possibility. SAC is screwing it all up, but MEM being this bad and hopefully dumping Gasol/Conley may make up for it. Ultimately, we may still need to go Tatum.
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1571 » by cloverleaf » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:22 am

djFan71 wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
djFan71 wrote:Wow, sub-Yabu? He needs to completely learn the game of basketball, which he may never do, but his physical tools are way past dab & arrow.


He's already got a good feel for the game, with a high BBIQ.

Really? He's a good block-chaser and decent rebounder by default. But he hardly ever knows where to be in p'n'r defense and even less so on the offensive end.


Definitely still learning the pro game. But still a smart player.
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1572 » by Captain_Caveman » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:38 am

Homerclease wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
Homerclease wrote:You said the same thing about Theis when he first got here.

You’ll come around


You’d have to link that one. Not high on him, either. But he knows what he is, which is a serviceable 3rd string center.

I don’t think you were overly critical, but were pushing for the Celtics to add another big before you came around on him. Either way, it’s fine if anyone isn’t high on Williams as some of us are but it would seem a bit hyperbolic to say he’s a sub Yabu level prospect when he’s already surpassed him in the rotation. Yabu is useless other than being a cheerful guy in the locker room

Edit: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1620353&p=60238910&hilit=Theis#p60238910

It’s folly to come out and say Williams is the next Gobert or anything like that, but it’s also folly to write off a guy his size with that much athleticism so early. Time will tell


That was a stretch on Theis, lol. Also a major difference in that I was good with Theis once I actually saw him play with us.

I've already seen way more of Williams, and it's just not there.
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1573 » by Captain_Caveman » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:39 am

Dogen wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:I hate having to be this guy's hater, but what is with this binky stuff? He's sub-Yabu level as a prospect.

50/50 he ever reaches Theis' level.

I'll see myself out.


Sub-Yabu? C'mon now, totally different players, different skills.

Image

Do come back this time next year, when The Lord of Time (is that it?) has grown into his man bones a bit more.

I get it: pump the brakes on the rook. But it's exciting to see a young big with some elite-level skills that many Celtics fans have never witnessed in their time. I mean, what we talking about going back to... Tony Battie?

If Williams, as a big man picked 27th, shows any signs of becoming a solid defensive player in the rotation, we're justified to get a little binky-headed.


As a prospect. I get that they are different players. They look like the number 10 standing next to each other.
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1574 » by Homerclease » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:48 am

Captain_Caveman wrote:
Homerclease wrote:
Captain_Caveman wrote:
You’d have to link that one. Not high on him, either. But he knows what he is, which is a serviceable 3rd string center.

I don’t think you were overly critical, but were pushing for the Celtics to add another big before you came around on him. Either way, it’s fine if anyone isn’t high on Williams as some of us are but it would seem a bit hyperbolic to say he’s a sub Yabu level prospect when he’s already surpassed him in the rotation. Yabu is useless other than being a cheerful guy in the locker room

Edit: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1620353&p=60238910&hilit=Theis#p60238910

It’s folly to come out and say Williams is the next Gobert or anything like that, but it’s also folly to write off a guy his size with that much athleticism so early. Time will tell


That was a stretch on Theis, lol. Also a major difference in that I was good with Theis once I actually saw him play with us.

I've already seen way more of Williams, and it's just not there.

What isn’t there?

You’ll come around
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1575 » by Parliament10 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:52 am

Read on Twitter
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Nothing is given."

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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1576 » by Tiny ball » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:51 am

He looks like a 4 to me and hope he gets the three pointer down. Sure the staff have him working on it? Out front on the zone defense coming in blocking shots weak side with big tall center in the middle and you have some thing with few good scorers.imho
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1577 » by Parliament10 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:41 pm

Read on Twitter
"You have to put the work in.
Nothing is given."

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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1578 » by cloverleaf » Sat Jan 26, 2019 3:12 pm

Tiny ball wrote:He looks like a 4 to me and hope he gets the three pointer down. Sure the staff have him working on it? Out front on the zone defense coming in blocking shots weak side with big tall center in the middle and you have some thing with few good scorers.imho


A very old-school 4, but a modern 5. He can get up higher and quicker than most taller centers.
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1579 » by Elrod is Back » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:13 pm

cloverleaf wrote:
Tiny ball wrote:He looks like a 4 to me and hope he gets the three pointer down. Sure the staff have him working on it? Out front on the zone defense coming in blocking shots weak side with big tall center in the middle and you have some thing with few good scorers.imho


A very old-school 4, but a modern 5. He can get up higher and quicker than most taller centers.


Austin Ainge said the Cs see him exclusively as a 5.
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Re: The Time Lord: Welcome Robert Williams! 

Post#1580 » by cloverleaf » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:42 pm

Elrod is Back wrote:
cloverleaf wrote:
Tiny ball wrote:He looks like a 4 to me and hope he gets the three pointer down. Sure the staff have him working on it? Out front on the zone defense coming in blocking shots weak side with big tall center in the middle and you have some thing with few good scorers.imho


A very old-school 4, but a modern 5. He can get up higher and quicker than most taller centers.


Austin Ainge said the Cs see him exclusively as a 5.


And 40 years ago, he might have been seen more as a possible 4.

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