Hot Topic - Quite Frankly; All Things Frank

[SportsDouche]

Just to summarize:

1. Frank is 20 1/2
2. Frank is already a plus defender
3. Frank struggles with his shooting and passing
4. Frank has an excellent work ethic
5. KP likes to play with Frank
6. If Frank learns to pass or shoot in the next 4 1/2 years, he will be a plus backcourt starter in this league.

Any suggestion that the Knicks should trade this guy are insane.

[thebuzzardman]

Just to summarize:

1. Frank is 20 1/2
2. Frank is already a plus defender
3. Frank struggles with his shooting and passing
4. Frank has an excellent work ethic
5. KP likes to play with Frank
6. If Frank learns to pass or shoot in the next 4 1/2 years, he will be a plus backcourt starter in this league.

Any suggestion that the Knicks should trade this guy are insane.

I found that your post made everything clean and refreshing in here, like a nice spring day.

[BBALLER4FR]

Read on Twitter

Not sure how smart funneling Harden left is seeing as his strong hand is his left. Would it not have been wiser to force Harden right where he might turn the ball over or have a more difficult time scoring?

[BKlutch]

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I just think about what that defense would look like with KP and/or Mitch behind him. Like I know its off topic but if the knicks could draft someone like Reddish and add him to that defense...... Big time scorers would not want to play in the garden anymore.

It was that way during the years they won 2 championships. Other teams always had their worst nights at the Garden.

[KnickFan33]

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Not sure how smart funneling Harden left is seeing as his strong hand is his left. Would it not have been wiser to force Harden right where he might turn the ball over or have a more difficult time scoring?

Some players find it easier to square up for a shot when dribbling with their off hand. Though I wouldn't know if that's the case for Harden.

Edit: Funneling someone's strength into help defense is also a plus.

[seren]

Just to summarize:

1. Frank is 20 1/2
2. Frank is already a plus defender
3. Frank struggles with his shooting and passing
4. Frank has an excellent work ethic
5. KP likes to play with Frank
6. If Frank learns to pass or shoot in the next 4 1/2 years, he will be a plus backcourt starter in this league.

Any suggestion that the Knicks should trade this guy are insane.

I take issue with number three and six. If the belief is Frank struggles with passing and shooting, what should we think about every other guard on the roster? That they are lost cause in passing? Literally the only guard on the roster who seems to be able to play pick and roll is Frank.

And in terms of six. If Frank improves his shot and gets better at passing, he will be a future hall of famer not just a plus backcourt starter.

So your last statement is indeed true. Unless we are getting a championship level talent in a deal (ie the deal directly or indirectly brings KD), it is insane to trade Frank.

[GONYK]

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Not sure how smart funneling Harden left is seeing as his strong hand is his left. Would it not have been wiser to force Harden right where he might turn the ball over or have a more difficult time scoring?

Well, the strategy resulted in Harden shooting 16%, so I'm not sure how much smarter it would have been to force him right.

[cuyankees]

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Not sure how smart funneling Harden left is seeing as his strong hand is his left. Would it not have been wiser to force Harden right where he might turn the ball over or have a more difficult time scoring?

Harden loves doing his step back gather move for 3 w his right so forcing him right actually encourages it.

[thebuzzardman]

Just to summarize:

1. Frank is 20 1/2
2. Frank is already a plus defender
3. Frank struggles with his shooting and passing
4. Frank has an excellent work ethic
5. KP likes to play with Frank
6. If Frank learns to pass or shoot in the next 4 1/2 years, he will be a plus backcourt starter in this league.

Any suggestion that the Knicks should trade this guy are insane.

I take issue with number three and six. If the belief is Frank struggles with passing and shooting, what should we think about every other guard on the roster? That they are lost cause in passing? Literally the only guard on the roster who seems to be able to play pick and roll is Frank.

And in terms of six. If Frank improves his shot and gets better at passing, he will be a future hall of famer not just a plus backcourt starter.

So your last statement is indeed true. Unless we are getting a championship level talent in a deal (ie the deal directly or indirectly brings KD), it is insane to trade Frank.

I was so focused on feeling clean and fresh I totally missed the points.

I'd say shooting is yes, a struggle, but the form is good, so there is hope. However, it's legit point. His passing is good. He makes a brain fart pass every other game. Where he sort of forgets himself and half-asses a pass somewhere. But it's hardly chronic. And not a "struggle to pass"

Also, I find the username inspiring and may change my username to Autumnfizz_buzzardman, for a fresh sounding name.

[GONYK]

Just to summarize:

1. Frank is 20 1/2
2. Frank is already a plus defender
3. Frank struggles with his shooting and passing
4. Frank has an excellent work ethic
5. KP likes to play with Frank
6. If Frank learns to pass or shoot in the next 4 1/2 years, he will be a plus backcourt starter in this league.

Any suggestion that the Knicks should trade this guy are insane.

I take issue with number three and six. If the belief is Frank struggles with passing and shooting, what should we think about every other guard on the roster? That they are lost cause in passing? Literally the only guard on the roster who seems to be able to play pick and roll is Frank.

And in terms of six. If Frank improves his shot and gets better at passing, he will be a future hall of famer not just a plus backcourt starter.

So your last statement is indeed true. Unless we are getting a championship level talent in a deal (ie the deal directly or indirectly brings KD), it is insane to trade Frank.

The biggest question for me is when did Frank become a bad passer?

[mpharris36]

frank is a plus passer and distributor.

He currently struggles with his shot and consistently breaking down a defense. When he starts getting more respect on his jumper that will open up driving lanes more often.

But this idea he is a bad distributor is ridiculous...hes our best distributor and it shows because even with his epic bad individual OFF numbers the team overall plays well with him on the court on the OFF end.

[BKlutch]

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Not sure how smart funneling Harden left is seeing as his strong hand is his left. Would it not have been wiser to force Harden right where he might turn the ball over or have a more difficult time scoring?

Well, the strategy resulted in Harden shooting 16%, so I'm not sure how much smarter it would have been to force him right.

The only question I have about how Frank played Harden is whether this was instinctual or whether this tactic was the result of pre-game strategy sessions.

[BKlutch]

It seems that if Frank wants to force Harden left, either:
1. Harden drives and gets driven towards a defender on Harden's left who can help slap at the ball, as we saw
or
2. If Harden steps back to take a 3, Frank can run cross court in front of him and attempt to block the shot with his left hand.

It might not always work, but unless you're Mitchell Robinson, nothing else has worked so far.

[prophet_of_rage]

Just to summarize:

1. Frank is 20 1/2
2. Frank is already a plus defender
3. Frank struggles with his shooting and passing
4. Frank has an excellent work ethic
5. KP likes to play with Frank
6. If Frank learns to pass or shoot in the next 4 1/2 years, he will be a plus backcourt starter in this league.

Any suggestion that the Knicks should trade this guy are insane.

I take issue with number three and six. If the belief is Frank struggles with passing and shooting, what should we think about every other guard on the roster? That they are lost cause in passing? Literally the only guard on the roster who seems to be able to play pick and roll is Frank.

And in terms of six. If Frank improves his shot and gets better at passing, he will be a future hall of famer not just a plus backcourt starter.

So your last statement is indeed true. Unless we are getting a championship level talent in a deal (ie the deal directly or indirectly brings KD), it is insane to trade Frank.

The biggest question for me is when did Frank become a bad passer?

When he telegraphs passes and his own defender steals them. That is shameful for a point guard. He has some very bad passing moments for a point. Overall he is not bad, but when he is ... oof. Frank tries to make safe passes all the time, but he lacks creativity and a certain derring do to be really good.

[prophet_of_rage]

Not sure how smart funneling Harden left is seeing as his strong hand is his left. Would it not have been wiser to force Harden right where he might turn the ball over or have a more difficult time scoring?

Well, the strategy resulted in Harden shooting 16%, so I'm not sure how much smarter it would have been to force him right.

The only question I have about how Frank played Harden is whether this was instinctual or whether this tactic was the result of pre-game strategy sessions.

That's team strategy. Otherwise the helper wouldn't know what to do.

[prophet_of_rage]

Read on Twitter

Not sure how smart funneling Harden left is seeing as his strong hand is his left. Would it not have been wiser to force Harden right where he might turn the ball over or have a more difficult time scoring?

Not everybody is Scottie Pippen who will be left on an island with the ballhandler and has enough reputation to defend without being called for fouling. Forcing strong hand into help prevents him from countering into his dominant hand. Sending him right into help means when he counters he's right back to strong hand. That's bad because now you're recovering the help is out of the play and your big man has to hope the ref is in a good mood.

[BKlutch]

Well, the strategy resulted in Harden shooting 16%, so I'm not sure how much smarter it would have been to force him right.

The only question I have about how Frank played Harden is whether this was instinctual or whether this tactic was the result of pre-game strategy sessions.

That's team strategy. Otherwise the helper wouldn't know what to do.

I was hoping that's the case. It means that the coaching staff is working on defensive strategies that could take advantage of Frank's strengths.

This isn't important only from Frank's point of view. If they're really strategizing but the defense has been as poor as it has been all year, it says that the blame must lie with the players who either can't or won't play good D. Somehow, I'd rather rid the team of Timmy and Muddy and Kanter than think we still have no brains in the staff.

[blueNorange]

bottom line is frank will never put up boxscore/fantasy numbers.

with that said, did ITGM see harden going 1/6 vs frank or is he still doing the bird box challenge?

[prophet_of_rage]

The only question I have about how Frank played Harden is whether this was instinctual or whether this tactic was the result of pre-game strategy sessions.

That's team strategy. Otherwise the helper wouldn't know what to do.

I was hoping that's the case. It means that the coaching staff is working on defensive strategies that could take advantage of Frank's strengths.

This isn't important only from Frank's point of view. If they're really strategizing but the defense has been as poor as it has been all year, it says that the blame must lie with the players who either can't or won't play good D. Somehow, I'd rather rid the team of Timmy and Muddy and Kanter than think we still have no brains in the staff.

Coaching staffs are paid millions of dollars to come up with schemes. Hornacek was too old school with that go out and defend. The Knicks and professional teams have schemes. They went zone because the players can't grasp them.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

It seems that if Frank wants to force Harden left, either:
1. Harden drives and gets driven towards a defender on Harden's left who can help slap at the ball, as we saw
or
2. If Harden steps back to take a 3, Frank can run cross court in front of him and attempt to block the shot with his left hand.

It might not always work, but unless you're Mitchell Robinson, nothing else has worked so far.

I think this is a really interesting conversation/subthread. I posted during the game that I watched Pippen and McGrady discussing (in general, not specifically re the Knicks) how to stop Harden. Pippen's idea was to get almost parallel with Harden on his left shoulder (as opposed to his right shoulder as Frank was doing), and force him to drive almost straight or very slightly to his right, using his right hand, and again relying on the help defender stepping out, pretty similarly to the way those Frank-on-D plays mostly worked. The theory is that that would make it harder for him to shoot (3s, but really anything) whilst giving him more lee-way to drive. The Knicks version pushes the drives less directly front on. Also, Harden's 3pt % hasn't been that great recently (unless I'm imagining things), so maybe preventing contested 3s is less important than Pippen thought/thinks.

[edit] meh - probably should have read PoR's post before posting