2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick!

[lilfishi22]

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What do you think about the whole notion that PG's takes time to develop and we're in need of someone now (ie this season or the next) who is ready to contribute, is experienced and can right the ship?

I think Ja is an exciting prospect but I can't help but feel like we need someone who's just ready to play now. Not ruling out Ja may be ready to play but the PG position is the hardest to play well at and takes the longest to learn. Even if he's productive, I'm not sure he's ready to take the reigns from Booker as lead guard and to really captain this team from the PG position.

[bwgood77]

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What do you think about the whole notion that PG's takes time to develop and we're in need of someone now (ie this season or the next) who is ready to contribute, is experienced and can right the ship?

I think Ja is an exciting prospect but I can't help but feel like we need someone who's just ready to play now. Not ruling out Ja may be ready to play but the PG position is the hardest to play well at and takes the longest to learn. Even if he's productive, I'm not sure he's ready to take the reigns from Booker as lead guard and to really captain this team from the PG position.

Honestly I haven't watched any college basketball at all so I don't really have any input. I will say I've seen trusted draft evaluators who really like him and others who don't. Also he plays in a very small conference against weak competition.

I actually pulled up his comparison with Trae the other day and he measured favorably, but I also remember how on fire Trae was before he hit conference play...like in December when the competition was weaker he was at historic levels and then when he hit real competition/game planning in conference play his %s plummeted. Ja is never going to hit tough conference play so who knows? His %s, at least from deep, have improved I think, which is a good sign...I would say that you'd think with more attention that would be tough but it also could be that he was shooting so poorly from deep early that they played off him on the perimeter daring him to shoot and now he's been hitting them.

The thing is, you just never know with any prospects. Regardless of how well some of these guys look in college, some excel early, some later, and some not at all. It really is a complete crap shoot.

Even if we do take a guy like Ja though, I think we should sign a veteran guy to start if we really are trying to be good from the get go. If the rookie can take the job from him sometime within the first couple of years, good for him.

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

What do you think about the whole notion that PG's takes time to develop and we're in need of someone now (ie this season or the next) who is ready to contribute, is experienced and can right the ship?

I think Ja is an exciting prospect but I can't help but feel like we need someone who's just ready to play now. Not ruling out Ja may be ready to play but the PG position is the hardest to play well at and takes the longest to learn. Even if he's productive, I'm not sure he's ready to take the reigns from Booker as lead guard and to really captain this team from the PG position.

Honestly I haven't watched any college basketball at all so I don't really have any input. I will say I've seen trusted draft evaluators who really like him and others who don't. Also he plays in a very small conference against weak competition.

I actually pulled up his comparison with Trae the other day and he measured favorably, but I also remember how on fire Trae was before he hit conference play...like in December when the competition was weaker he was at historic levels and then when he hit real competition/game planning in conference play his %s plummeted. Ja is never going to hit tough conference play so who knows? His %s, at least from deep, have improved I think, which is a good sign...I would say that you'd think with more attention that would be tough but it also could be that he was shooting so poorly from deep early that they played off him on the perimeter daring him to shoot and now he's been hitting them.

The thing is, you just never know with any prospects. Regardless of how well some of these guys look in college, some excel early, some later, and some not at all. It really is a complete crap shoot.

Even if we do take a guy like Ja though, I think we should sign a veteran guy to start if we really are trying to be good from the get go. If the rookie can take the job from him sometime within the first couple of years, good for him.

I guess my question was more general to the PG position and not necessarily specific to Ja. My view is that we're at the stage where we need someone experienced who can just do the job at the PG spot so i agree that we need a veteran guy to start. That's why as exciting as Ja, as exciting as Markelle, DSJ and I suppose Frank *could* be, no one really fits the description of someone that is ready to play and ready to play the right way. We're in desperate need of leadership as much as production/impact at the PG position and I just don't think any of these young PG's are ready for that role.

Unlike a team with many veterans who you could put an inexperienced PG out there to learn on the job and play the right way alongside vets, we don't have that luxury and throwing another inexperienced PG out there would just seem to prolong the issues we've had since Bledsoe left. I feel like we have good and talented pieces in place in enough spots to be competitive but our guys are still young, still inexperienced and just doesn't have a leader out there. Booker is doing his best to be a leader out there but some people just aren't suited for that role even if they are technically proficient at their job. If we can move some assets to bring in Conley or some other veteran PG who is just ready to play now and draft Ja, that would be ideal.

[darealjuice]

I doubt that Ja Morant comes into the league lighting it up right away. He's a dynamic athlete and a good playmaker, but he's far from NBA-ready physically and his jump shot definitely has room for improvement. Dude is currently 6'3" and 170 pounds. That's not going to fly outside of the Ohio Valley Conference, certainly not in the NBA.

The problem with taking a guy in the top 5 is that you're pretty much expected to start them from the jump and give them opportunity to grow, and we need to get out of perpetually being in that stage. I think we need to evaluate our options as far as trading the pick for a position of need, but we also shouldn't be afraid of drafting if that's the best long term play available on draft night.

[bwgood77]

What do you think about the whole notion that PG's takes time to develop and we're in need of someone now (ie this season or the next) who is ready to contribute, is experienced and can right the ship?

I think Ja is an exciting prospect but I can't help but feel like we need someone who's just ready to play now. Not ruling out Ja may be ready to play but the PG position is the hardest to play well at and takes the longest to learn. Even if he's productive, I'm not sure he's ready to take the reigns from Booker as lead guard and to really captain this team from the PG position.

Honestly I haven't watched any college basketball at all so I don't really have any input. I will say I've seen trusted draft evaluators who really like him and others who don't. Also he plays in a very small conference against weak competition.

I actually pulled up his comparison with Trae the other day and he measured favorably, but I also remember how on fire Trae was before he hit conference play...like in December when the competition was weaker he was at historic levels and then when he hit real competition/game planning in conference play his %s plummeted. Ja is never going to hit tough conference play so who knows? His %s, at least from deep, have improved I think, which is a good sign...I would say that you'd think with more attention that would be tough but it also could be that he was shooting so poorly from deep early that they played off him on the perimeter daring him to shoot and now he's been hitting them.

The thing is, you just never know with any prospects. Regardless of how well some of these guys look in college, some excel early, some later, and some not at all. It really is a complete crap shoot.

Even if we do take a guy like Ja though, I think we should sign a veteran guy to start if we really are trying to be good from the get go. If the rookie can take the job from him sometime within the first couple of years, good for him.

I guess my question was more general to the PG position and not necessarily specific to Ja. My view is that we're at the stage where we need someone experienced who can just do the job at the PG spot so i agree that we need a veteran guy to start. That's why as exciting as Ja, as exciting as Markelle, DSJ and I suppose Frank *could* be, no one really fits the description of someone that is ready to play and ready to play the right way. We're in desperate need of leadership as much as production/impact at the PG position and I just don't think any of these young PG's are ready for that role.

Unlike a team with many veterans who you could put an inexperienced PG out there to learn on the job and play the right way alongside vets, we don't have that luxury and throwing another inexperienced PG out there would just seem to prolong the issues we've had since Bledsoe left. I feel like we have good and talented pieces in place in enough spots to be competitive but our guys are still young, still inexperienced and just doesn't have a leader out there. Booker is doing his best to be a leader out there but some people just aren't suited for that role even if they are technically proficient at their job. If we can move some assets to bring in Conley or some other veteran PG who is just ready to play now and draft Ja, that would be ideal.

But then again, you take a guy like Fox, who I wasn't particularly high on..he would poor as a rookie, but is so good as a sophomore due to hard work and playing the right way, he'd have been a perfect pick for us right now alongside Booker and with Ayton.

[TheLogician]

no thoughts on coby white?

He'll probably go back to school. North Carolina guys usually stay 3-4 years.

[lilfishi22]

Honestly I haven't watched any college basketball at all so I don't really have any input. I will say I've seen trusted draft evaluators who really like him and others who don't. Also he plays in a very small conference against weak competition.

I actually pulled up his comparison with Trae the other day and he measured favorably, but I also remember how on fire Trae was before he hit conference play...like in December when the competition was weaker he was at historic levels and then when he hit real competition/game planning in conference play his %s plummeted. Ja is never going to hit tough conference play so who knows? His %s, at least from deep, have improved I think, which is a good sign...I would say that you'd think with more attention that would be tough but it also could be that he was shooting so poorly from deep early that they played off him on the perimeter daring him to shoot and now he's been hitting them.

The thing is, you just never know with any prospects. Regardless of how well some of these guys look in college, some excel early, some later, and some not at all. It really is a complete crap shoot.

Even if we do take a guy like Ja though, I think we should sign a veteran guy to start if we really are trying to be good from the get go. If the rookie can take the job from him sometime within the first couple of years, good for him.

I guess my question was more general to the PG position and not necessarily specific to Ja. My view is that we're at the stage where we need someone experienced who can just do the job at the PG spot so i agree that we need a veteran guy to start. That's why as exciting as Ja, as exciting as Markelle, DSJ and I suppose Frank *could* be, no one really fits the description of someone that is ready to play and ready to play the right way. We're in desperate need of leadership as much as production/impact at the PG position and I just don't think any of these young PG's are ready for that role.

Unlike a team with many veterans who you could put an inexperienced PG out there to learn on the job and play the right way alongside vets, we don't have that luxury and throwing another inexperienced PG out there would just seem to prolong the issues we've had since Bledsoe left. I feel like we have good and talented pieces in place in enough spots to be competitive but our guys are still young, still inexperienced and just doesn't have a leader out there. Booker is doing his best to be a leader out there but some people just aren't suited for that role even if they are technically proficient at their job. If we can move some assets to bring in Conley or some other veteran PG who is just ready to play now and draft Ja, that would be ideal.

But then again, you take a guy like Fox, who I wasn't particularly high on..he would poor as a rookie, but is so good as a sophomore due to hard work and playing the right way, he'd have been a perfect pick for us right now alongside Booker and with Ayton.

There's certainly that possibility. I was pretty down on Fox. Reminded me too much of Bledsoe but without the jump shot, who we still had at that time. I would definitely look to move this pick if we're not #1. Not for Conley or someone who we could pay in FA but for someone who's worth it and under contract.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

I guess my question was more general to the PG position and not necessarily specific to Ja. My view is that we're at the stage where we need someone experienced who can just do the job at the PG spot so i agree that we need a veteran guy to start. That's why as exciting as Ja, as exciting as Markelle, DSJ and I suppose Frank *could* be, no one really fits the description of someone that is ready to play and ready to play the right way. We're in desperate need of leadership as much as production/impact at the PG position and I just don't think any of these young PG's are ready for that role.

Unlike a team with many veterans who you could put an inexperienced PG out there to learn on the job and play the right way alongside vets, we don't have that luxury and throwing another inexperienced PG out there would just seem to prolong the issues we've had since Bledsoe left. I feel like we have good and talented pieces in place in enough spots to be competitive but our guys are still young, still inexperienced and just doesn't have a leader out there. Booker is doing his best to be a leader out there but some people just aren't suited for that role even if they are technically proficient at their job. If we can move some assets to bring in Conley or some other veteran PG who is just ready to play now and draft Ja, that would be ideal.

But then again, you take a guy like Fox, who I wasn't particularly high on..he would poor as a rookie, but is so good as a sophomore due to hard work and playing the right way, he'd have been a perfect pick for us right now alongside Booker and with Ayton.

There's certainly that possibility. I was pretty down on Fox. Reminded me too much of Bledsoe but without the jump shot, who we still had at that time. I would definitely look to move this pick if we're not #1. Not for Conley or someone who we could pay in FA but for someone who's worth it and under contract.

I don't think you can make decisions like that in a vacuum. There are likely to be few, if any, teams willing to trade a legit guy for a top pick...I mean you'd really need a legit guy under contract you feel comfortable might stay that you'd be willing to really overpay.

Not many owners want to tear down a team close to or in the playoffs to rebuild, especially given the flatter lottery odds. The only one I recall lately is the Jrue for #6 (Noel) trade over 5 years ago. Or Trey Lyles for Donovan Mitchell.

I'd be careful though...the guys at the top likely have a much better chance of contributing long term for your franchise and maybe short term than a vet unless the vet is near all star.

Things will become more clear as we get close to the draft.

[bwgood77]

I've asked the newest addition to TheStepien,

Spoiler:

There is no way people who be as hyped as they are about Morant if they actually watched him play full games. He cares less about defense than D-Russ did at OSU and he was probably the most nonchalant player I've seen in college on the defensive end.

to give us a breakdown of Ja if he has one. I know he has been studying a lot of prospects and breaking down tape, so he's a good follow on twitter if you are interested in the prospects.... @frontofficeeye

The quoted post was actually from about a week and a half ago, so maybe thoughts have changed slightly since then.

[Blonde]

I wish we had a pick in the 10-20 range this year so we could take Jontay Porter. He seems like he’d be a great 4/5 next to Ayton. He’s been injured all year but he’s exactly the kind of big guy that thrives in the modern NBA, so he won’t slide too far on draft day.

[bwgood77]

I wish we had a pick in the 10-20 range this year so we could take Jontay Porter. He seems like he’d be a great 4/5 next to Ayton. He’s been injured all year but he’s exactly the kind of big guy that thrives in the modern NBA, so he won’t slide too far on draft day.

We could trade down and maybe pick up a future first. Tough coming off injury though.

[Blonde]

I wish we had a pick in the 10-20 range this year so we could take Jontay Porter. He seems like he’d be a great 4/5 next to Ayton. He’s been injured all year but he’s exactly the kind of big guy that thrives in the modern NBA, so he won’t slide too far on draft day.

We could trade down and maybe pick up a future first. Tough coming off injury though.

I just don’t see a realistic trade partner. Maybe New Orleans for a Jrue package where we pick swap.

[TheLogician]

Apparently both of his sisters retired due to ACL injuries. MPJ also has the back problem. I wouldn't take him earlier than late first.

[NBA Fan 1234]

I've asked the newest addition to TheStepien,

Spoiler:

There is no way people who be as hyped as they are about Morant if they actually watched him play full games. He cares less about defense than D-Russ did at OSU and he was probably the most nonchalant player I've seen in college on the defensive end.

to give us a breakdown of Ja if he has one. I know he has been studying a lot of prospects and breaking down tape, so he's a good follow on twitter if you are interested in the prospects.... @frontofficeeye

The quoted post was actually from about a week and a half ago, so maybe thoughts have changed slightly since then.

For those interested, I have a writeup of his game v UT-Martin at the bottom of the post.


Unfortunately I don't have a public Morant scouting report or video breakdown, but I can definitely share my thoughts (that appear to be unpopular on Twitter, but I don't care...lol).

Offensively:
- Great at getting into the paint. He's got a handle that is better than good but not great (can get loose at times), and is quick, but lacks strength (which is part of the reason why his finishing is not great) and doesn't have a great frame for contact IMO. Two foot leaper, not great in traffic, and has not shown a runner this year. Great getting in transition, needs work on halfcourt game. Doesn't always feel the lanes opening and is prone to driving into multiple defenders.
- Definitely above a "good" passer (very good?), but not great - watching him play in most of his games, I think his high AST numbers mainly come from his really high usage. Loves that left handed pass almost as much as Trae did last year. Decision making passing the ball leaves me questioning his IQ. Some of the passes he attempts he simply shouldn't make (a solid number of those being lobs, which he forces and doesn't show great touch on). Too many jump passes.
- Good FT shooter, and gets there a ton, but a bad overall shooter. His form does not lead well into projecting his ability to stop on a dime and hit off the dribble jumpers, and I also think it will not lead to him ever becoming a good shooter from deep. If you watch his form, and Schroder's form, the two are similar - both are nice FT shooters, but inconsistent from deep.
- Finishing ability is very meh.

Defensively:
- Has the lateral quickness to say in front of players and be a pest when he wants to be, but will get bodied by bigger players (again, not a fan of his frame).
- Gambles a bit too much on defense going for steals when he decides to actually be attentive off ball, which is a VERY rare occurrence. There are few players who have been more laissez-faire than him in college that I've seen. It's really that bad and needs to get drafted to a team where he will be held accountable.
- Not good schematically, rotating, or positioning himself off ball. He flashes a good rotation here and there, but for the most part, he reads the offense poorly and makes the wrong decision.


I've watched most of his games from Synergy and have gone through his clips before.



(Thread v UT-Martin)

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(Thread v Belmont - split into two halves. First half is in the quoted tweet, second half is in the linked Tweet.)

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(Two form Tweets)

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[bwgood77]

A good breakdown of Brandon Clarke. I would be tempted to trade down and add a player/pick or maybe just simply take him if we land at 6 or 7.

Why his shooting might end up better than you think to add to his likely elite defense. https://www.thestepien.com/2019/01/18/draft-notes-easy-case-brandon-clarke/

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/12/03/analyzing-brandon-clarkes-nba-potential/

[Kerrsed]

I guess my question was more general to the PG position and not necessarily specific to Ja. My view is that we're at the stage where we need someone experienced who can just do the job at the PG spot so i agree that we need a veteran guy to start. That's why as exciting as Ja, as exciting as Markelle, DSJ and I suppose Frank *could* be, no one really fits the description of someone that is ready to play and ready to play the right way. We're in desperate need of leadership as much as production/impact at the PG position and I just don't think any of these young PG's are ready for that role.

Unlike a team with many veterans who you could put an inexperienced PG out there to learn on the job and play the right way alongside vets, we don't have that luxury and throwing another inexperienced PG out there would just seem to prolong the issues we've had since Bledsoe left. I feel like we have good and talented pieces in place in enough spots to be competitive but our guys are still young, still inexperienced and just doesn't have a leader out there. Booker is doing his best to be a leader out there but some people just aren't suited for that role even if they are technically proficient at their job. If we can move some assets to bring in Conley or some other veteran PG who is just ready to play now and draft Ja, that would be ideal.

Guards usually dont take much time at all to develop, Bigs are the ones that take forever. I think with guards it happens somewhere from day one to maybe a year. If it doesnt happen by then (Being a solid PG) then it never happens. With Fox he was pretty bad his rookie season, but after the 1st year he became a stud. You have Tre Young in Atlanta who has been a stud since day 1.

Now after saying that i do also feel like the team and system plays a factor into that. Morant would be set up perfectly with us due to the young team around him and because of our team situation. We have a new coach and a new system, so its not like a young inexperienced PG coming in and having to learn how to play in a system that has been being used for like forever and all the players know it and their role. It allows Igor to in a way mold the system to him. All our guys are young, so its not like having a bunch of battle ridden vets taking issue with having to listen to a young stud coming in and trying to establish himself as the team leader or running the show. I think that is one of the reasons why Fox worked out so well in Sacramento or Young in Atlanta or even Simmons in Philly (Ball and Russell too), while other top PG prospects have looked less than stellar (SGA/Sexton/Ntilikina/DSJ/Dunn/Rozier).

I did read the article on Morant that The Stepien wrote....and honestly i dont know what to say. They go to list list why he is a great PG and player, all of which i agree, but when it comes to the negatives on him i really disagree. I mean he has elite speed, they even said themselves that his "handle is among the best in the country and, combined with his elite ability to change speeds, allows him to get wherever he wants on the floor" yet they go one to say this:

Almost every point guard drafted highly in recent years has disappointed early in their career relative to their draft spot. Players like Ben Simmons and De’Aaron Fox who possess true outlier physical tools (Simmons has size, Fox has speed) can speed up their curve by simply being more athletic than their opposition.

So somehow Fox's speed sped up his curve, but that wont work for Morant who i believe is just as fast (And they themselves mention his elite speed)?

Look, the kid is going to be a star player. at 19 he is 6"3 (And growing), has elite speed, is the NCAA's best passer (#1 in assists), is a real team leader (Took his team from a 132nd preseason ranking to being #45), can not only create for others but create for himself (Just 28.7 percent of his makes being assisted with 64% True Shooting) while having a Nash like ability to know when to switch games from being a facilitator to scoring for himself. His defense isnt anywhere close to being as bad as they try to make it out to be, with a 93.5 Defensive rating being way way better than SGA who was known for his defense and had a 101 defensive rating.

The kid is the real deal. He ticks all the boxes. Really he only has 2 issues and both are very minor. He shoots 33% from 3, but his True Shooting and his FT shooting show he is a much better shooter and shouldnt have an issue being a better 3 point shooter. His other issue is his turnovers. 5 a game is high, but he still maintains a 2-1 assist to turnover ratio which is solid. He tends to try to force passes to teammates to try to get them involved, and to be honest Murray State doesnt have to greatest players around him. Its something that can be easily fixed.

[Bogyo]

^^ Yeah, I'd rather have Morant than Zion at this point. I've watched a couple of Duke games, but as amazing as Zion is he is a real head-scratcher for me... how is he going to do in the league? I think he'll be a good player, but not as great as everyone seems to think now... He is too short to live down-low and doesn't really have a shot... He'll get his dunks, and putbacks, and rebounds, but not really sure about the fit on any NBA roster... I guess if you are happy with a rich mans Clarence Weatherspoon or a poor mans Larry Johnson, then sure...

[sunsbg]

^^ Yeah, I'd rather have Morant than Zion at this point. I've watched a couple of Duke games, but as amazing as Zion is he is a real head-scratcher for me... how is he going to do in the league? I think he'll be a good player, but not as great as everyone seems to think now... He is too short to live down-low and doesn't really have a shot... He'll get his dunks, and putbacks, and rebounds, but not really sure about the fit on any NBA roster... I guess if you are happy with a rich mans Clarence Weatherspoon or a poor mans Larry Johnson, then sure...

I think I would trade the first pick for any of the 2018 draft top 4(maybe 5) players having seen them play in the league. Nothing about Zion other than dunking looks that impressive. He brings energy, but the same is true for JJ.

[NBA Fan 1234]

Fox's athleticism was much better than Morant's is. Much better. Being an SEC guy, I didn't miss many Kentucky games (nor have I missed many of Morant's games, or clips I downloaded from Synergy). Morant is a great athlete (although pretty heavily a two-footed jumper), but Fox is an elite one. His finishing ability, touch, and projectable shooting were also far better than Morant's is - even with the higher FT%, Morant's ability to rise quickly off the bounce is essentially non-existent at this point. His form is actually similar to Schroder who has NOT been able to become a consistent outside shooter. FT% is not always indicative of future shooting potential - had a convo with a scout actually about this at SL. He's a damn good passer, but his AST% (or APG) is not indicative of his actual passing ability. Some of the passes he makes are absurd (one handed 40 foot cross-court pass he made in his last game, his left handed push passes, really nice drop-offs, etc), but it's pretty much because he is Murray State's offense and when he's not involved, he stands around doing absolutely nothing. His turnovers are pretty mind-boggling, too.

Also, his defense IS that bad. He'll get his steals, but he cares about off ball defense and positioning as much as D-Russ did in college - meaning, essentially not at all. He's rarely in a stance, doesn't anticipate where the ball is going (I've seen him make laughably bad reads - going high to defend the 3 when there is a rim runner going to the basket is something I remember off the top of my head).

It sounds like I'm being harsh on him...because I am. I don't think he's better than Maledon, Anthony, Hayes, or Edwards in next year's class NOR do I think he's as good as Garland in this one (I also don't think his floor OR ceiling is as high). Will he be an all star? Possibly. Do I think his impact will be all star level? No.

[Bogyo]

^^ Yeah, I'd rather have Morant than Zion at this point. I've watched a couple of Duke games, but as amazing as Zion is he is a real head-scratcher for me... how is he going to do in the league? I think he'll be a good player, but not as great as everyone seems to think now... He is too short to live down-low and doesn't really have a shot... He'll get his dunks, and putbacks, and rebounds, but not really sure about the fit on any NBA roster... I guess if you are happy with a rich mans Clarence Weatherspoon or a poor mans Larry Johnson, then sure...

I think I would trade the first pick for any of the 2018 draft top 4(maybe 5) players having seen them play in the league. Nothing about Zion other than dunking looks that impressive. He brings energy, but the same is true for JJ.

Pretty much agreed. Not sure about Bagley, but funny enough, I think he is the only one who would be on the table for Zion. If anybody else is (Doncic/JJJ/Young) you pull the trigger every time, and twice on sundays. Oh, and never look back. This is with the possibility that Zion becomes better than his likely outcomes that I mentioned above. I also think he'll have health issues sooner than later with that weight. Back, knees, ankles are all in danger, and likely will not have a long career, or will be often injured.