Gordon Hayward Thread

London2Boston · Post #901 » by **London2Boston** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:23 am

Hmm. Draymond isn’t exactly lying.

celtxman · Post #902 » by **celtxman** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:23 am

SichtingLives wrote:Also, you can't blame his teammates for not having confidence in him. They do look him off and miss him all the time, but he plays so deferentially that a guy plenty capable of scoring (most of our team) isn't going to give him the ball in those spots.

I have seen Celtics especially Jaylen Brown force a 2 pointer in the paint rather than pitch the ball out to a wide open Hayward. It feels like pickup basketball in the gym where that stuff happens not the NBA, where Stevens seems to be selective about how he handles these things.
I do blame the players. I remember when Robert Parish came to the Celtics and they asked him why he was so much better than he was at Golden State and he was running the floor like he never did. His answer was simple, "because now I get the ball" referring to Bird. So Brown shooting marginally better than Hayward can force things and not play team ball ? That makes Hayward even worse.
It has been tough to watch Hayward this year, but his gruesome injury, the logjam with the wings , and the inexperience of the younger players to handle this situation are a big part of the problem.

Edug27 · Post #903 » by **Edug27** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:25 am

London2Boston wrote:

Read on Twitter

Hmm. Draymond isn’t exactly lying.

All facts.

FutureIsGreen · Post #904 » by **FutureIsGreen** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:25 am

captain green wrote:Single biggest reason we regressed imo.
Brown needs 30 mpg rozier 25 minimum 2 young guys that can't catch rythm because they force 26 minutes from hayward. Imo trade him, shut him down or only play him in garbage time.
Hopefully he gets better but I don't see it happening any time soon. Players in this league lick their chops when he is guarding them and when they are guarding him. Also it increases brown and others that have had to cut their minute to provide for hayward. Sure in theory they want to play him for the money but I want wins and he is the weakest link period.

And you see the better version of Brown when he's not stuck in the corner 3 spot like Hayward is now. It's really more of a support to what you say above, the exclusionary role in the offense is a killer in self confidence. Brown, Hayward, Ojeleye all struggle in that spot. Too hard to stand around uselessly then be expected to nail a jumper the one time they finally swing one over to you, with usually a second before the clock expires.

SichtingLives · Post #905 » by **SichtingLives** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:27 am

FutureIsGreen wrote::(
SichtingLives wrote:Also, you can't blame his teammates for not having confidence in him. They do look him off and miss him all the time, but he plays so deferentially that a guy plenty capable of scoring (most of our team) isn't going to give him the ball in those spots.

You have to give the teammates blame as well though, he needs their help to regain his confidence. Ignoring him is in no way beneficial. Good teammates pick you up, they don't bury you. Body language is not good and neither is the result. How do you get on roll getting 1 shot every 20 min or so of real time. Its ludicrous to expect a made shot ice cold once a quarter. Cant happen.

I agree but you have to consider that more than half of our team are not high IQ players to begin with, and maybe 1/3 of them have a selfish agenda most of the time on the offensive side of the ball. And fickle as it is the second a teammate loses respect of your ability to make a play or shoot the ball, they are going to err against giving you the ball unless you're in an advantageous spot.

FutureIsGreen · Post #906 » by **FutureIsGreen** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:32 am

London2Boston wrote:

Read on Twitter

Hmm. Draymond isn’t exactly lying.

What is... things opponents say to try to cause dissention for you going forward? I hear him, but I'm not listening to him.

Post #907 » by **K For Three** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:37 am

London2Boston wrote:

Read on Twitter

Hmm. Draymond isn’t exactly lying.

Hope it's Draymond and not KD. KD is close with Kyrie and I don't want to think they are talking about this or anything.

Going back to my hole in the ground now where everything is positive and peachy keen.

Post #908 » by **canman1971** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:38 am

Edug27 wrote:
London2Boston wrote:

Read on Twitter

Hmm. Draymond isn’t exactly lying.

All facts.

Unnamed source...Bleacher Report...Equals typical crap reporting that has only gotten worse the past 20 years. I could write all kinds of BS with unnamed sources.

SichtingLives · Post #909 » by **SichtingLives** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:38 am

celtxman wrote:
SichtingLives wrote:Also, you can't blame his teammates for not having confidence in him. They do look him off and miss him all the time, but he plays so deferentially that a guy plenty capable of scoring (most of our team) isn't going to give him the ball in those spots.
I have seen Celtics especially Jaylen Brown force a 2 pointer in the paint rather than pitch the ball out to a wide open Hayward. It feels like pickup basketball in the gym where that stuff happens not the NBA, where Stevens seems to be selective about how he handles these things.
I do blame the players. I remember when Robert Parish came to the Celtics and they asked him why he was so much better than he was at Golden State and he was running the floor like he never did. His answer was simple, "because now I get the ball" referring to Bird. So Brown shooting marginally better than Hayward can force things and not play team ball ? That makes Hayward even worse.
It has been tough to watch Hayward this year, but his gruesome injury, the logjam with the wings , and the inexperience of the younger players to handle this situation are a big part of the problem.

yeah its a cluster**** of converging issues so we can (and have) talk all day about the many things that are happening. I know what its like to be on good unselfish trusting teams and its amazing how much better you play because of it. Then you play with guys who selfish and/or stupid and my takeaway is usually that they just don't understand the fundamentals of winning basketball, any time a guy thinks "me mine my shot", I don't care who he is that makes his team worse and it makes his teammates play worse. It greatly effects the overall effort of a group too. Oh look hero boy is going to jack up another shot might as well stand here and not waste my time doing something productive. It's a natural reaction and then when you get the ball its in the same dumbass context of "my turn" instead of 5 guys creating a good look.

This bench on paper is the best in the league. On the court they have been pretty bad lately. You look inside and see they are not trying to get the best out of each other, just to force their own hand which goes downhill every time.

FutureIsGreen · Post #910 » by **FutureIsGreen** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:43 am

SichtingLives wrote:
FutureIsGreen wrote::(
SichtingLives wrote:Also, you can't blame his teammates for not having confidence in him. They do look him off and miss him all the time, but he plays so deferentially that a guy plenty capable of scoring (most of our team) isn't going to give him the ball in those spots.

You have to give the teammates blame as well though, he needs their help to regain his confidence. Ignoring him is in no way beneficial. Good teammates pick you up, they don't bury you. Body language is not good and neither is the result. How do you get on roll getting 1 shot every 20 min or so of real time. Its ludicrous to expect a made shot ice cold once a quarter. Cant happen.

I agree but you have to consider that more than half of our team are not high IQ players to begin with, and maybe 1/3 of them have a selfish agenda most of the time on the offensive side of the ball. And fickle as it is the second a teammate loses respect of your ability to make a play or shoot the ball, they are going to err against giving you the ball unless you're in an advantageous spot.

Exactly, I'm feeling that the selfishness may be that some people, like Tatum for example, is trying to stay in Kyries good books (see the support he gave during Kyries singling out comments) and trying to stay here by moving Hayward out. Everything is Possible. The games where we played unselfish ball we were dominant and 9 guys had double digits. So as you say, we don't have too many cerebral guys, but I think it's more posturing career wise, at the team's expense.

FutureIsGreen · Post #911 » by **FutureIsGreen** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:51 am

Hopefully this team gives Hayward his job back. If he's here long term, get him back in the starting lineup and feed him the ball for 2 weeks and see how it goes. If we continue to play like this, we are not going to win anyway. Give him the reps it takes to get better.

Red2 · Post #912 » by **Red2** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:35 am

And old friend Jae crowder was the cause of the injury . I have no doubt that Crowder was trying to hurt him

mwhis21 · Post #913 » by **mwhis21** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:52 am

Gordon’s revival after a couple weeks off is going to be incredible...can’t wait to throw bowls of crow around

rmal8852 · Post #914 » by **rmal8852** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:53 am

Red2 wrote:And old friend Jae crowder was the cause of the injury . I have no doubt that Crowder was trying to hurt him

Sad but true.

Crowder was mad at the Cs for trading him and mad at the guy who replaced him. I’m sure he will never forget the cheers for that guy who would replace him who came in to the Boston Garden and got cheered wearing different laundry. He thought it was disrespectful, and I agree.

That’s still doesn’t excuse what him and Bron Bron did to Hayward.

Post #915 » by **K For Three** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:57 am

rmal8852 wrote:
Red2 wrote:And old friend Jae crowder was the cause of the injury . I have no doubt that Crowder was trying to hurt him

Sad but true.

Crowder was mad at the Cs for trading him and mad at the guy who replaced him. I’m sure he will never forget the cheers for that guy who would replace him who came in to the Boston Garden and got cheered wearing different laundry. He thought it was disrespectful, and I agree.

That’s still doesn’t excuse what him and Bron Bron did to Hayward.

Um guys can we stop with the blame game for the injury? Now it's starting to just look weird here. To me it was just a total fluke injury.

Post #916 » by **SmartWentCrazy** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:59 am

Kyrie For Three wrote:
London2Boston wrote:

Read on Twitter

Hmm. Draymond isn’t exactly lying.

Hope it's Draymond and not KD. KD is close with Kyrie and I don't want to think they are talking about this or anything.

Going back to my hole in the ground now where everything is positive and peachy keen.

Its Boogie— I’ve listened to Goodman’s podcast enough to know those two have a long history dating back nearly 10 years.

Post #917 » by **K For Three** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:01 am

SmartWentCrazy wrote:
Kyrie For Three wrote:
London2Boston wrote:

Read on Twitter

Hmm. Draymond isn’t exactly lying.

Hope it's Draymond and not KD. KD is close with Kyrie and I don't want to think they are talking about this or anything.

Going back to my hole in the ground now where everything is positive and peachy keen.

Its Boogie— I’ve listened to Goodman’s podcast enough to know those two have a long history dating back nearly 10 years.

Ahhhh thank you.

Anyway that could be just him bragging since he has come back from a serious injury himself and thinks he is the cats meow right now.

Romeiro Celtic · Post #918 » by **Romeiro Celtic** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:56 am

Kyrie For Three wrote:What........is.........this?

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/1/27/18199617/anonymous-warriors-player-tells-jeff-goodman-gordon-hayward-is-a-liability-on-both-ends-of-court

“I talked to a Warriors player who told me, ‘listen, Gordon Hayward is not Gordon Hayward right now,’ said Goodman on the Garden Report. He’s hurting them.’ the Anonymous player continued. ‘He’s a liability on both ends of the court.’ ‘

Goodman also said the same Warrior player told him that the Celtics ‘needed to make a move,’ suggesting that this current group of players doesn’t have what it needs to compete with the likes of the Warriors.

I bet this was either Durant or Draymond who said that, not wrong though.

Grooverider · Post #919 » by **Grooverider** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:20 am

Romeiro Celtic wrote:
Kyrie For Three wrote:What........is.........this?

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/1/27/18199617/anonymous-warriors-player-tells-jeff-goodman-gordon-hayward-is-a-liability-on-both-ends-of-court

“I talked to a Warriors player who told me, ‘listen, Gordon Hayward is not Gordon Hayward right now,’ said Goodman on the Garden Report. He’s hurting them.’ the Anonymous player continued. ‘He’s a liability on both ends of the court.’ ‘

Goodman also said the same Warrior player told him that the Celtics ‘needed to make a move,’ suggesting that this current group of players doesn’t have what it needs to compete with the likes of the Warriors.

I bet this was either Durant or Draymond who said that, not wrong though.

Just to compete lol? Who is the **** clown who said this. Morris three goes in, Gordon wasnt a corpse, Smart didnt blow the rebound.... we have a chance to win.

We didnt lose by 30. Total dumbass statement right there.

Grooverider · Post #920 » by **Grooverider** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:22 am

Grooverider wrote:
Romeiro Celtic wrote:
Kyrie For Three wrote:What........is.........this?

https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/1/27/18199617/anonymous-warriors-player-tells-jeff-goodman-gordon-hayward-is-a-liability-on-both-ends-of-court

I bet this was either Durant or Draymond who said that, not wrong though.

Just to compete lol? Who is the **** clown who said this. Morris three goes in, Gordon wasnt a corpse, Smart didnt blow the rebound.... we have a chance to win.

We didnt lose by 30. Total dumbass statement right there.

PS if it was that little cupcake Durant who said that you need to see Lebrons guy bro..your bald ass head is getting worse by the day.