2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[King Ken]

35 points triple-doubles must be rare for rookies. Anyone has a stat?

At some point… just get him in the all-star game FFS.

Extremely rare. Not sure we have anyone modern doing that. You gotta go back to when we had guys leaving college after 3-4 years to find guys doing this.

[TheBonzaiEffect]

"But he wouldn't be a good fit with Fox"
OMFG.

Bagley is a better fit and has just as high a ceiling if not higher.

Luka is an elite shot maker. He would be the king of horse. He can shoot it from any slot. Not a sharpshooter like a Durant, Steph or Allen but such a skilled player.

You are certifiable if you think Bagley has as high a ceiling as Luka. Bagley will never in his life have a 35-12-10 game, and Luka just did it at 19. Bagley's absolute ceiling is 25/10 guy with mediocre defense and an inability to shoot 3s or get to the line a ton...how is that higher than Luka?

[Archx]

"But he wouldn't be a good fit with Fox"
OMFG.

Bagley is a better fit and has just as high a ceiling if not higher.

Luka is an elite shot maker. He would be the king of horse. He can shoot it from any slot. Not a sharpshooter like a Durant, Steph or Allen but such a skilled player.

You are certifiable if you think Bagley has as high a ceiling as Luka. Bagley will never in his life have a 35-12-10 game, and Luka just did it at 19. Bagley's absolute ceiling is 25/10 guy with mediocre defense and an inability to shoot 3s or get to the line a ton...how is that higher than Luka?

They are both 19yo, let's not get ahead of ourselves. ... we'll see how Bagley turns out but the truth is, if Kings had Luka right now, they would be a threat to make it out of the 1st round in playoffs.

[King Ken]

"But he wouldn't be a good fit with Fox"
OMFG.

Bagley is a better fit and has just as high a ceiling if not higher.

Luka is an elite shot maker. He would be the king of horse. He can shoot it from any slot. Not a sharpshooter like a Durant, Steph or Allen but such a skilled player.

You are certifiable if you think Bagley has as high a ceiling as Luka. Bagley will never in his life have a 35-12-10 game, and Luka just did it at 19. Bagley's absolute ceiling is 25/10 guy with mediocre defense and an inability to shoot 3s or get to the line a ton...how is that higher than Luka?

Luka stans and their foolishness for a 4th year professional basketball player compared to kids over a year removed from high school when we are talking potential.

Bagley is raw. Luka is polished. Wake me when both players are near their peak.

For Bagley, that's in 4 years, for Luka, that's now

[Nuntius]

"But he wouldn't be a good fit with Fox"
OMFG.

Bagley is a better fit and has just as high a ceiling if not higher.

Luka is an elite shot maker. He would be the king of horse. He can shoot it from any slot. Not a sharpshooter like a Durant, Steph or Allen but such a skilled player.

Bagley has a high ceiling, no doubt, but Luka is having crazy games like this one (35 points triple-double, his second triple-double of the season) and he's only 19. There's no reason to think that Luka's ceiling isn't insanely high.

[TheBonzaiEffect]

Bagley is a better fit and has just as high a ceiling if not higher.

Luka is an elite shot maker. He would be the king of horse. He can shoot it from any slot. Not a sharpshooter like a Durant, Steph or Allen but such a skilled player.

You are certifiable if you think Bagley has as high a ceiling as Luka. Bagley will never in his life have a 35-12-10 game, and Luka just did it at 19. Bagley's absolute ceiling is 25/10 guy with mediocre defense and an inability to shoot 3s or get to the line a ton...how is that higher than Luka?

Luka stans and their foolishness for a 4th year professional basketball player compared to kids over a year removed from high school.

Bagley is raw. Luka is polished. Wake me when both players are near their peak.

For Bagley, that's in 4 years, for Luka, that's now

You think Luka is near his peak now? And I'm the stan?

[Pachinko_]

Luka stans and their foolishness for a 4th year professional basketball player compared to kids over a year removed from high school when we are talking potential.

Bagley is raw. Luka is polished. Wake me when both players are near their peak.

For Bagley, that's in 4 years, for Luka, that's now

Oh ok, so with Luka you also get an extra 4 years of peak.
Bonus

[Nuntius]

Bagley is a better fit and has just as high a ceiling if not higher.

Luka is an elite shot maker. He would be the king of horse. He can shoot it from any slot. Not a sharpshooter like a Durant, Steph or Allen but such a skilled player.

You are certifiable if you think Bagley has as high a ceiling as Luka. Bagley will never in his life have a 35-12-10 game, and Luka just did it at 19. Bagley's absolute ceiling is 25/10 guy with mediocre defense and an inability to shoot 3s or get to the line a ton...how is that higher than Luka?

Luka stans and their foolishness for a 4th year professional basketball player compared to kids over a year removed from high school when we are talking potential.

Bagley is raw. Luka is polished. Wake me when both players are near their peak.

For Bagley, that's in 4 years, for Luka, that's now

Dude, they're both rookies. Don't give me that "Luka was a pro in Europe" stuff. Most people before the draft were claiming that this experience didn't count and that NCAA competition was so much tougher. Not counting Luka as a rookie is just weird.

Edit: Also, Bagley will be 23 in 4 years. That's NOT when bigs are nearing their peak. That comes when they're 25-26 years old. I'm not even gonna argue the "Luka is near his peak right now" angle. It's just not accurate.

[Archerbro]

Luka is looking more and more like a superstar. he should make the reserves for all star IMO. he has been balling

[TheBonzaiEffect]

Bagley is a better fit and has just as high a ceiling if not higher.

Luka is an elite shot maker. He would be the king of horse. He can shoot it from any slot. Not a sharpshooter like a Durant, Steph or Allen but such a skilled player.

You are certifiable if you think Bagley has as high a ceiling as Luka. Bagley will never in his life have a 35-12-10 game, and Luka just did it at 19. Bagley's absolute ceiling is 25/10 guy with mediocre defense and an inability to shoot 3s or get to the line a ton...how is that higher than Luka?

They are both 19yo, let's not get ahead of ourselves. ... we'll see how Bagley turns out but the truth is, if Kings had Luka right now, they would be a threat to make it out of the 1st round in playoffs.

I like Bagley...but we know his skillset. He isn't much of a passer or defender...he isn't suddenly going to become elite at both. Luka is/can be an elite shot creator for himself and others.

[Archx]

"But he wouldn't be a good fit with Fox"
OMFG.

Bagley is a better fit and has just as high a ceiling if not higher.

Luka is an elite shot maker. He would be the king of horse. He can shoot it from any slot. Not a sharpshooter like a Durant, Steph or Allen but such a skilled player.

Bagley has a high ceiling, no doubt, but Luka is having crazy games like this one (35 points triple-double, his second triple-double of the season) and he's only 19. There's no reason to think that Luka's ceiling isn't insanely high.

Steph Curry's personal trainer said that Doncic has insane amount of room to improve. So i guess his ceiling is somewhere in the clouds

Read on Twitter

[Pachinko_]

So people honestly think that kids in Europe don't improve past 19 years old?
OMG

[King Ken]

You are certifiable if you think Bagley has as high a ceiling as Luka. Bagley will never in his life have a 35-12-10 game, and Luka just did it at 19. Bagley's absolute ceiling is 25/10 guy with mediocre defense and an inability to shoot 3s or get to the line a ton...how is that higher than Luka?

Luka stans and their foolishness for a 4th year professional basketball player compared to kids over a year removed from high school.

Bagley is raw. Luka is polished. Wake me when both players are near their peak.

For Bagley, that's in 4 years, for Luka, that's now

You think Luka is near his peak now? And I'm the stan?

Yes. He will be more consistent but he is not getting that much better from here. I watch every game. He is so far ahead of players on the developed element but not where close on the stuff that you are born with.

He is the anti Giannis. Giannis was the worst rookie I've seen his year outside of Dennis Schroder who barely played anyway. Now Giannis is a top 3-5 player.

Where is Luka going to get much better at? You guys love saying this but I don't see it. I always saw a great player in terms of his floor and when I compare him to Pistol who might have been the most polished Amercian to ever enter the NBA as an American, that's me seeing him in ELITE regard. But I don't see this great potential. I don't see a great fit and he has a **** personality as well like a white Boogie Cousins. You guys are making excuses up for him.

[clyde21]

So people honestly think that kids in Europe don't improve past 19 years old?
OMG

only because real player development in terms of skills starts at a much younger age in Europe than what players here at AAU get in the US.

but yea, doensnt mean there still isn't a lot of room of improvement for him. dude's a prodigy.

[Bob8]

Bagley is a better fit and has just as high a ceiling if not higher.

Luka is an elite shot maker. He would be the king of horse. He can shoot it from any slot. Not a sharpshooter like a Durant, Steph or Allen but such a skilled player.

You are certifiable if you think Bagley has as high a ceiling as Luka. Bagley will never in his life have a 35-12-10 game, and Luka just did it at 19. Bagley's absolute ceiling is 25/10 guy with mediocre defense and an inability to shoot 3s or get to the line a ton...how is that higher than Luka?

Luka stans and their foolishness for a 4th year professional basketball player compared to kids over a year removed from high school when we are talking potential.

Bagley is raw. Luka is polished. Wake me when both players are near their peak.

For Bagley, that's in 4 years, for Luka, that's now

It looks to me that Luka is peaking every month. When this season is over, I expect another few peaks and some 40 points triple doubles. He will have 5 months to work on his body, so another season of peaking is coming. But I expect that his ceiling will still be lower than Bagley’s/Ayton’s/Trae’s ceiling.

[King Ken]

You are certifiable if you think Bagley has as high a ceiling as Luka. Bagley will never in his life have a 35-12-10 game, and Luka just did it at 19. Bagley's absolute ceiling is 25/10 guy with mediocre defense and an inability to shoot 3s or get to the line a ton...how is that higher than Luka?

They are both 19yo, let's not get ahead of ourselves. ... we'll see how Bagley turns out but the truth is, if Kings had Luka right now, they would be a threat to make it out of the 1st round in playoffs.

I like Bagley...but we know his skillset. He isn't much of a passer or defender...he isn't suddenly going to become elite at both. Luka is/can be an elite shot creator for himself and others.

No we don't. He hasn't even tipped the iceberg on what he is capable of potentially.

Luka is an elite shot creator for himself. For others, he is a WIP. He has a lot of selfishness in him. It dims just how good of a playmaker that he is.

[Archerbro]

more and more i can see the 6 8 steve nash in him. He is so beastly especially today against the raps

[Bob8]

Luka stans and their foolishness for a 4th year professional basketball player compared to kids over a year removed from high school.

Bagley is raw. Luka is polished. Wake me when both players are near their peak.

For Bagley, that's in 4 years, for Luka, that's now

You think Luka is near his peak now? And I'm the stan?

Yes. He will be more consistent but he is not getting that much better from here. I watch every game. He is so far ahead of players on the developed element but not where close on the stuff that you are born with.

He is the anti Giannis. Giannis was the worst rookie I've seen his year outside of Dennis Schroder who barely played anyway. Now Giannis is a top 3-5 player.

Where is Luka going to get much better at? You guys love saying this but I don't see it. I always saw a great player in terms of his floor and when I compare him to Pistol who might have been the most polished Amercian to ever enter the NBA as an American, that's me seeing him in ELITE regard. But I don't see this great potential. I don't see a great fit and he has a **** personality as well like a white Boogie Cousins. You guys are making excuses up for him.

He can be much better in shooting and conditioning.

[King Ken]

Bagley is a better fit and has just as high a ceiling if not higher.

Luka is an elite shot maker. He would be the king of horse. He can shoot it from any slot. Not a sharpshooter like a Durant, Steph or Allen but such a skilled player.

Bagley has a high ceiling, no doubt, but Luka is having crazy games like this one (35 points triple-double, his second triple-double of the season) and he's only 19. There's no reason to think that Luka's ceiling isn't insanely high.

Steph Curry's personal trainer said that Doncic has insane amount of room to improve. So i guess his ceiling is somewhere in the clouds

Read on Twitter

Steph trainer can say what he wants just like Hakeem said JaVale should dominate the NBA.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/hakeem-olajuwon-says-javale-mcgee-dominate-nba-224109998--nba.html

[Nuntius]

Bagley is a better fit and has just as high a ceiling if not higher.

Luka is an elite shot maker. He would be the king of horse. He can shoot it from any slot. Not a sharpshooter like a Durant, Steph or Allen but such a skilled player.

Bagley has a high ceiling, no doubt, but Luka is having crazy games like this one (35 points triple-double, his second triple-double of the season) and he's only 19. There's no reason to think that Luka's ceiling isn't insanely high.

Steph Curry's personal trainer said that Doncic has insane amount of room to improve. So i guess his ceiling is somewhere in the clouds

Read on Twitter

Oh, absolutely. People see the huge numbers and assume that he can't improve more but that's just wrong. A deeper look into his numbers will reveal that there are a lot of areas he can improve on. Let's look at his shooting splits -> https://stats.nba.com/player/1629029/shooting/

He is currently shooting 38.3% from the mid-range. He is shooting 35.6% on floaters (driving floating jump shots). He is shooting 36.6% on pull-up jumpers. He is shooting 35.4% on step-back jumpers. He also doesn't have a very good post game yet as evidenced by his numbers on turnaround fade-aways and hooks. He is 6'8 and strong so a post-up game is likely to be a big weapon for him in the future.

Those 5 areas of improvement are quite easy to see and we're still only talking about his scoring. We haven't even started talking about the other areas of his game that he needs to work on (getting into better shape, defense, turnovers etc).