2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (Pt 2)

[NoDopeOnSundays]

"But he wouldn't be a good fit with Fox"
OMFG.

Bagley is a better fit and has just as high a ceiling if not higher.

Luka is an elite shot maker. He would be the king of horse. He can shoot it from any slot. Not a sharpshooter like a Durant, Steph or Allen but such a skilled player.

How exactly does Bagley have a higher ceiling? He's a PF that isn't going to create offense for others and doesn't project to being a better scorer than Doncic. Also, Doncic may be polished but he's built like a cab driver, give him a couple of years to work on his body to become leaner while retaining strength, instead of the doughy baby fat he has now.

[XTraderXL]

Luka stans and their foolishness for a 4th year professional basketball player compared to kids over a year removed from high school.

Bagley is raw. Luka is polished. Wake me when both players are near their peak.

For Bagley, that's in 4 years, for Luka, that's now

You think Luka is near his peak now? And I'm the stan?

Yes. He will be more consistent but he is not getting that much better from here. I watch every game. He is so far ahead of players on the developed element but not where close on the stuff that you are born with.

He is the anti Giannis. Giannis was the worst rookie I've seen his year outside of Dennis Schroder who barely played anyway. Now Giannis is a top 3-5 player.

Where is Luka going to get much better at? You guys love saying this but I don't see it. I always saw a great player in terms of his floor and when I compare him to Pistol who might have been the most polished Amercian to ever enter the NBA as an American, that's me seeing him in ELITE regard. But I don't see this great potential. I don't see a great fit and he has a **** personality as well like a white Boogie Cousins. You guys are making excuses up for him.

Mate, are you ok? Reading your posts makes me think that something is off.... Where did you get that his personality is ****? And what are you talking about with the fit?

[HoopsterJones]

It’s pretty much decided now that Luka Doncic should be the ROY. Unanimously.

[Pachinko_]

It’s pretty much decided now that Luka Doncic should be the ROY. Unanimously.

Nah, not unanimously. There are still some Hawks and Kings fans telling themselves stories to sleep at night

[Nuntius]

Where is Luka going to get much better at? You guys love saying this but I don't see it.

I talked about it in another one of my replies in this thread. Allow me to quote myself:

Oh, absolutely. People see the huge numbers and assume that he can't improve more but that's just wrong. A deeper look into his numbers will reveal that there are a lot of areas he can improve on. Let's look at his shooting splits -> https://stats.nba.com/player/1629029/shooting/

He is currently shooting 38.3% from the mid-range. He is shooting 35.6% on floaters (driving floating jump shots). He is shooting 36.6% on pull-up jumpers. He is shooting 35.4% on step-back jumpers. He also doesn't have a very good post game yet as evidenced by his numbers on turnaround fade-aways and hooks. He is 6'8 and strong so a post-up game is likely to be a big weapon for him in the future.

Those 5 areas of improvement are quite easy to see and we're still only talking about his scoring. We haven't even started talking about the other areas of his game that he needs to work on (getting into better shape, defense, turnovers etc).

Yes, Luka is way more polished than the average rookie. But that doesn't mean that he can't improve. He is still inefficient in numerous areas. He can improve in every each one of them and up his scoring while retaining or even improving on his efficiency (not at the same time, he'll probably up his scoring first and then work on his efficiency). He can get into better shape which would help his game across the board. He will learn the PG spot better and cut down on some of his turnovers. Defense is another big area where better conditioning and knowing the way NBA offenses play will help him more. He will never become a lock-down defender, obviously, but he can become a net positive defender (kind of how like has done by mainly defending post players, using his strength).

[HoopsterJones]

It’s pretty much decided now that Luka Doncic should be the ROY. Unanimously.

Nah, not unanimously. There are still some Hawks and Kings fans telling themselves stories to sleep at night

Well unanimously by those who actually vote for the ROY.

[Pachinko_]

It’s pretty much decided now that Luka Doncic should be the ROY. Unanimously.

Nah, not unanimously. There are still some Hawks and Kings fans telling themselves stories to sleep at night

Well unanimously by those who actually vote for the ROY.

Oh yeah true. But who votes though? I hope not Divac

[King Ken]

You think Luka is near his peak now? And I'm the stan?

Yes. He will be more consistent but he is not getting that much better from here. I watch every game. He is so far ahead of players on the developed element but not where close on the stuff that you are born with.

He is the anti Giannis. Giannis was the worst rookie I've seen his year outside of Dennis Schroder who barely played anyway. Now Giannis is a top 3-5 player.

Where is Luka going to get much better at? You guys love saying this but I don't see it. I always saw a great player in terms of his floor and when I compare him to Pistol who might have been the most polished Amercian to ever enter the NBA as an American, that's me seeing him in ELITE regard. But I don't see this great potential. I don't see a great fit and he has a **** personality as well like a white Boogie Cousins. You guys are making excuses up for him.

Mate, are you ok? Reading your posts makes me think that something is off.... Where did you get that his personality is ****? And what are you talking about with the fit?

You must not watch the games. He consistently is sulking like Boogie on the bench when his team is down. He doesn't come off well with his teammates but it seems like the media and his fans are overlooking this.

This is the foolishness he does in games just this season, let's not forget what he did in Madrid:

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[Archx]

Bagley has a high ceiling, no doubt, but Luka is having crazy games like this one (35 points triple-double, his second triple-double of the season) and he's only 19. There's no reason to think that Luka's ceiling isn't insanely high.

Steph Curry's personal trainer said that Doncic has insane amount of room to improve. So i guess his ceiling is somewhere in the clouds

Read on Twitter

Steph trainer can say what he wants just like Hakeem said JaVale should dominate the NBA.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/hakeem-olajuwon-says-javale-mcgee-dominate-nba-224109998--nba.html

Yes but my point was, he went into details what his flaws are. Just being faster with his dribbles, more athletic will help him a lot. Then there are multiple shooting drills that can help him get his shot up faster and more efficient. Looking from a far will make you think that he is close to peak but in reality, this guy is not even at half way there. And i know this scares a lot of people because he is already this good.

[Pachinko_]

let's not forget what he did in Madrid:

Oh you mean where he won everything as a 18 year old? Yea lets not.

[Bob8]

King Ken is on the mission.

[Archx]

Yes. He will be more consistent but he is not getting that much better from here. I watch every game. He is so far ahead of players on the developed element but not where close on the stuff that you are born with.

He is the anti Giannis. Giannis was the worst rookie I've seen his year outside of Dennis Schroder who barely played anyway. Now Giannis is a top 3-5 player.

Where is Luka going to get much better at? You guys love saying this but I don't see it. I always saw a great player in terms of his floor and when I compare him to Pistol who might have been the most polished Amercian to ever enter the NBA as an American, that's me seeing him in ELITE regard. But I don't see this great potential. I don't see a great fit and he has a **** personality as well like a white Boogie Cousins. You guys are making excuses up for him.

Mate, are you ok? Reading your posts makes me think that something is off.... Where did you get that his personality is ****? And what are you talking about with the fit?

You must not watch the games. He consistently is sulking like Boogie on the bench when his team is down. He doesn't come off well with his teammates but it seems like the media and his fans are overlooking this.

This is the foolishness he does in games just this season, let's not forget what he did in Madrid:

Are you really trying to punish this kid because he has CRAZY passion for the game and gets mad at himself when he plays bad? He ripped that jersey just for the same reason. He plays with the same passion as Russ or Kobe. He's a proven winner since he became a pro at 16yo. If i am a GM, i would be freaking happy that i have a player on my team who is passionate about winning and playing the game. You will never have to worry if he will work hard or anything else. His late game heroics often prove that he is all about getting those W's.

[Pachinko_]

Andrew Wiggins is always calm and composed though.

[Nuntius]

Yes. He will be more consistent but he is not getting that much better from here. I watch every game. He is so far ahead of players on the developed element but not where close on the stuff that you are born with.

He is the anti Giannis. Giannis was the worst rookie I've seen his year outside of Dennis Schroder who barely played anyway. Now Giannis is a top 3-5 player.

Where is Luka going to get much better at? You guys love saying this but I don't see it. I always saw a great player in terms of his floor and when I compare him to Pistol who might have been the most polished Amercian to ever enter the NBA as an American, that's me seeing him in ELITE regard. But I don't see this great potential. I don't see a great fit and he has a **** personality as well like a white Boogie Cousins. You guys are making excuses up for him.

Mate, are you ok? Reading your posts makes me think that something is off.... Where did you get that his personality is ****? And what are you talking about with the fit?

You must not watch the games. He consistently is sulking like Boogie on the bench when his team is down. He doesn't come off well with his teammates but it seems like the media and his fans are overlooking this.

This is the foolishness he does in games just this season, let's not forget what he did in Madrid:

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

So, wait a second. Getting mad at yourself is now a bad thing? I thought that people liked competitiveness.

[XTraderXL]

Yes. He will be more consistent but he is not getting that much better from here. I watch every game. He is so far ahead of players on the developed element but not where close on the stuff that you are born with.

He is the anti Giannis. Giannis was the worst rookie I've seen his year outside of Dennis Schroder who barely played anyway. Now Giannis is a top 3-5 player.

Where is Luka going to get much better at? You guys love saying this but I don't see it. I always saw a great player in terms of his floor and when I compare him to Pistol who might have been the most polished Amercian to ever enter the NBA as an American, that's me seeing him in ELITE regard. But I don't see this great potential. I don't see a great fit and he has a **** personality as well like a white Boogie Cousins. You guys are making excuses up for him.

Mate, are you ok? Reading your posts makes me think that something is off.... Where did you get that his personality is ****? And what are you talking about with the fit?

You must not watch the games. He consistently is sulking like Boogie on the bench when his team is down. He doesn't come off well with his teammates but it seems like the media and his fans are overlooking this.

This is the foolishness he does in games just this season, let's not forget what he did in Madrid:

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Haha, ok. I guess anything goes when you are trying to convince yourself that your Hawks pulled a good move with the Doncic-Young trade. He ripped his jersey so he must have a **** personality. Thats some logic for you;-)

[Bob8]

Trae and Huerter are rookies with the highest ceiling and it’s not even close.

[King Ken]

Where is Luka going to get much better at? You guys love saying this but I don't see it.

I talked about it in another one of my replies in this thread. Allow me to quote myself:

Oh, absolutely. People see the huge numbers and assume that he can't improve more but that's just wrong. A deeper look into his numbers will reveal that there are a lot of areas he can improve on. Let's look at his shooting splits -> https://stats.nba.com/player/1629029/shooting/

He is currently shooting 38.3% from the mid-range. He is shooting 35.6% on floaters (driving floating jump shots). He is shooting 36.6% on pull-up jumpers. He is shooting 35.4% on step-back jumpers. He also doesn't have a very good post game yet as evidenced by his numbers on turnaround fade-aways and hooks. He is 6'8 and strong so a post-up game is likely to be a big weapon for him in the future.

Those 5 areas of improvement are quite easy to see and we're still only talking about his scoring. We haven't even started talking about the other areas of his game that he needs to work on (getting into better shape, defense, turnovers etc).

Yes, Luka is way more polished than the average rookie. But that doesn't mean that he can't improve. He is still inefficient in numerous areas. He can improve in every each one of them and up his scoring while retaining or even improving on his efficiency (not at the same time, he'll probably up his scoring first and then work on his efficiency). He can get into better shape which would help his game across the board. He will learn the PG spot better and cut down on some of his turnovers. Defense is another big area where better conditioning and knowing the way NBA offenses play will help him more. He will never become a lock-down defender, obviously, but he can become a net positive defender (kind of how like has done by mainly defending post players, using his strength).

Here is the thing, he will improve. Most skilled base players improve in today's NBA. I seen it across the league they improve at older ages as well. My quarrel is, as I've said in this thread. The improvements I see he needs to make is substantial if being an elite player is his goal. I only see marginal improvement left.

He is extremely polished and has RARE elite skill that hardly even the best in the NBA currently have. We have been knowing this, it's not new.

I don't see him improving this his athletic tools. He is slow. While he has elite footwork, he is slow. Luis Scola and Z-Bo had elite footwork, they never got faster or more athletic. He has just barely enough athletic ability to be on the perimeter on offense and I personally think he's a mess defensively anywhere. His off ball defense with his great defensive instincts is saving his ass. He is always food on switches and teams will focus on wearing him down as time goes. I just don't see it in terms of parts of the game you have to be born with. He clearly has skill that's born, not just created and he is polished but I can see him putting up insane numbers but his team is 38-44 for the next 4 seasons.

You can't call him a baby LeBron if he is this damn unathletic, it's not possible. He is going to have the same issue Pistol had as a NBA player. Teams are going to love the talent, skill and ability but find the fit just odd and not conductive to elite winning.

Luka will be a HOF if healthy, but will he be a winner in the NBA? I doubt it unless Dallas just goes all in with great picks and FA signings. He isn't Dirk, he doesn't fit. Dirk just fits.

[King Ken]

Haha, ok. I guess anything goes when you are trying to convince yourself that your Hawks pulled a good move with the Doncic-Young trade. He ripped his jersey so he must have a **** personality. Thats some logic for you;-)

The usual, you must be a hater or mad thing comment. It was bound to come from a stan.

I can be a fan of a player not on my team or on my team and have quarrels on him.

[King Ken]

So, wait a second. Getting mad at yourself is now a bad thing? I thought that people liked competitiveness.

There is a difference between competitiveness and acting like a damn child when things aren't going your way

Boogie Cousins/Cam Newton to MJ/Magic/Tom Brady for example. There are leaders and there are negative personalities.

[Goudelock]

So people honestly think that kids in Europe don't improve past 19 years old?
OMG

Not saying that Luka won't improve, but let's not forget how high people were on Karl-Anthony Towns after his rookie season. Towns looked OK on defense, was hitting shots from all over the mid-range, showed off a nice post game, and was throwing some excellent passes. Towns was probably the most skilled rookie big-man the NBA had seen since Tim Duncan. Towns was an automatic 20-10 in the second half of his rookie season. You can probably find threads from 2015 where posters would proclaim that Towns would one day be the best player in the NBA. Towns has improved quite a bit since his rookie campaign, but he has never really taken the next step into super-stardom that many expected him to.

While I'd imagine that Luka will get better in the future, it's not like there's no precedent for a highly skilled rookie never making the leap into superstardom after balling out in his rookie season.