PG: Game thread: Heat @ Knicks:1/27/19 aka: "We want Kanter"

[F N 11]

Fiz knows his stuff, but he just cannot openly admit he is tanking, so instead he always mentions player development, ie winning is not the aim or target at all.

The team Is bad come on...

[Context]

I truly believe 2019 will be a good year for us- Tank, Draft and off season...

[thebuzzardman]

Frank getting mad praise now....

Fiz must know groin pull serious and won't have to play him for 3 weeks

[2010]

Frank ain't it.

[dakomish23]

Dotson seems to play well against MIA

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[thebuzzardman]

Frank good 1.5 quarters
Mitch moments in 2nd half
Dotson played well before assuming tank driving duty briefly
Mario looked good, Mario looked like Mario
Nice comeback to down 6 when Fiz played a lineup that made actual sense
Nice fake comeback with Burke/THJr out there with Mario and Mitch and Dot
THJr secures tank by backing off 10 feet on Ellington, then wounded frog hopping for simulated D effort on the Ell make.
THJr lets Ellington score again, at least he was on him, no ball denial
MSG full of Wade nuthuggers and other assorted not born in NYC asshats who do things like "The Wave"
Burke and THJR is a turrible idea confirmed
Fiz showed some coaching IQ acumen by realizing Knox with those two is a disaster, so went with lesser evil Mario
Mitch don't have time for shaking hands

I’m still waiting for your favorite hamburger spot

Wherever Waiters is stuffing his face at down in Miami

[Capn'O]

Frank played real well before the injured groin and Mitch was everywhere. Knox has been a bit lacking since the 31 pt outburst. So - good youth performances + the L. I'll take it.

[2010]

I guarantee you that Jersey was meant for Melo. Tim all in his ear like “it would mean the world to me”

[matchman]

Fiz knows his stuff, but he just cannot openly admit he is tanking, so instead he always mentions player development, ie winning is not the aim or target at all.

The team Is bad come on...

If you meant by the roster lineup, then I agree, too many players put his paycheck in a higher priority than the team.

[Capn'O]

I’m not a fake news/media generates hate type of person but everyone part of the media saying the Knicks miss Kanter or are tanking by not playing Kanter is seriously just a hater and is purposely trying to stir up drama because it’s absolutely ridiculous as they all know how little positive he brings to the basketball court on a nightly basis which is clearly apparent in the Knicks overall play since he’s been on the bench that I can’t stop rambling about this and never going to finish this sentence cause it gets me so freaking mad

Trying to push his value

[BowlRips]

So is it socially acceptable to say the team runs better when Frank is playing yet or nah?

I think so, but here's a diplomatic answer

The ball moves better as he has good IQ and I think the players know he'll get them the ball, but also if they reset and he gets it, it'll move again. Trust.

That said, Frank needs work all over the place. Asserting his will on the offense, in terms of "run this play". Making jumpers. Driving. Driving coming along, slowly. Jumper will come. Probably next year.

So, those things are good. It also speaks to how Burke and to an extent Mudiay, just really aren't that good at running a team, or at least a style conducive to team basketball. That's on offense. On defense there's no argument to make.

Mudiay I wouldn't mind as a cheap backup PG, as he's still got potential, his drive game is unlocking, and while he's not maybe as low key smart running a team like frank - not implying Frank is a genius or doing anything special, he's just very sound in a certain way, Mudiay tries to involve others. Meaning, he's sort of score first PG, but there's enough facilitating skills.
Burke is a nice scorer off the bench, but, nah, let another team who needs that have it.

Which is why to me that with anyone with half a brain that watches this team consistently (not box score watching) can say that Frank
a) has the physical tools to play
B) shows a high basketball high iq
C) has a largely positive impact on the court
D) especially defensively
E) is clearly saw raw offensively

At age 20- this is someone you hold on to and try to develop and if he gets it offensively he becomes a special player.

And some others who only look at box scores don’t realize that there’s so many players in this league putting up 13-19 points per game that DONT contribute to the game in any other area that they just become replacement level players

[robillionaire]

they lost. 10-72 pls. go suns.

[waya]

Obligatory:

[thebuzzardman]

So is it socially acceptable to say the team runs better when Frank is playing yet or nah?

I think so, but here's a diplomatic answer

The ball moves better as he has good IQ and I think the players know he'll get them the ball, but also if they reset and he gets it, it'll move again. Trust.

That said, Frank needs work all over the place. Asserting his will on the offense, in terms of "run this play". Making jumpers. Driving. Driving coming along, slowly. Jumper will come. Probably next year.

So, those things are good. It also speaks to how Burke and to an extent Mudiay, just really aren't that good at running a team, or at least a style conducive to team basketball. That's on offense. On defense there's no argument to make.

Mudiay I wouldn't mind as a cheap backup PG, as he's still got potential, his drive game is unlocking, and while he's not maybe as low key smart running a team like frank - not implying Frank is a genius or doing anything special, he's just very sound in a certain way, Mudiay tries to involve others. Meaning, he's sort of score first PG, but there's enough facilitating skills.
Burke is a nice scorer off the bench, but, nah, let another team who needs that have it.

Which is why to me that with anyone with half a brain that watches this team consistently (not box score watching) can say that Frank
a) has the physical tools to play
B) shows a high basketball high iq
C) has a largely positive impact on the court
D) especially defensively
E) is clearly saw raw offensively

At age 20- this is someone you hold on to and try to develop and if he gets it offensively he becomes a special player.

And some others who only look at box scores don’t realize that there’s so many players in this league putting up 13-19 points per game that contribute to the game in any other area that they just become replacement level players

I guess. It could be glass half full/empty, in that his game has real flaws still and if someone locks in on that, it's not untrue.
Ok, I was going to type more, but don't want get into the varying reasons of pros and cons. They are like politics, all over the place, some make sense, quite a bit of emotional stuff that is just believed.

[mpharris36]

they lost. 10-72 pls. go suns.

suns down double digits to lakers without lebron and kuz

they are trash

[ITGM]

Obligatory:

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

So is it socially acceptable to say the team runs better when Frank is playing yet or nah?

I think so, but here's a diplomatic answer

The ball moves better as he has good IQ and I think the players know he'll get them the ball, but also if they reset and he gets it, it'll move again. Trust.

That said, Frank needs work all over the place. Asserting his will on the offense, in terms of "run this play". Making jumpers. Driving. Driving coming along, slowly. Jumper will come. Probably next year.

So, those things are good. It also speaks to how Burke and to an extent Mudiay, just really aren't that good at running a team, or at least a style conducive to team basketball. That's on offense. On defense there's no argument to make.

Mudiay I wouldn't mind as a cheap backup PG, as he's still got potential, his drive game is unlocking, and while he's not maybe as low key smart running a team like frank - not implying Frank is a genius or doing anything special, he's just very sound in a certain way, Mudiay tries to involve others. Meaning, he's sort of score first PG, but there's enough facilitating skills.
Burke is a nice scorer off the bench, but, nah, let another team who needs that have it.

I +1 too many of your posts, mostly because it saves on me typing.

I think the trust thing is, perhaps bizarrely, the key thing. I mean, it's the pros, the players shouldn't need to have rah-rah emotions effecting their play. But, actually, it's a game theory better situation for the other players to be in. So it's not really a rah-rah thing at all - it's simply in their interests.

On the other "PGs":

Burke is simply not a PG, he's a tiny SG who plays hardish on D, but is too small in almost all situations. I can't see how the money works out for him to be on the team next year, but if he is it has to be as a back up SG (& presumably we've shipped Timmy & Courtney away?).

Mudiay, maybe you're right. I'm a little less optimistic that he can run any team offence. But, shrug, maybe he can to some extent.

Trier ... again he's a SG just starting to think about if/how he could be a better facilitator. As yet I don't believe that he believes that is really how to play basketball/how he can have a role in the league. And that might be right .. he may be better off as a "pure scoring threat" or whatever .. but there isn't really enough evidence either way to be conclusive.

my left field idea from the game thread. Mario. Obviously not going to be a permanent PG, and his handle isn't great. But he probably could be encouraged to run the offence/be a Luka-light ... at a real stretch. (And not at all because they are from the same part of the world.) If Frank is also out for a couple of weeks I definitely think that could be something to explore.

[cgmw]

Whenever Burke gets minutes, Knox plays like sh*t

[thebuzzardman]

Here's a pro Frank take that isn't totally pro Frank.

the ball clearly moved well when he was out there, even though THJr was out there for some of the time
When Frank went out and THJr/Trier/Burke were the guard combos, it was pretty bad ball movement BUT it was the worst with Burke/THr

When the lineup was Trier/CLee/Dot/Mario/Mitch the ball moved again.
So, Frank brings that, but there's also an aspect of certain guys and especially certain combinations REDUCE it.

That line up worked as it had players in a good role and the players themselves played within themselves and the role.

This is why THJr HAS to go.
This is why Burke should go.

Can a good coach use Burke the right way to score, limit his minutes, and catch a game where he's passing? Yes. I'd rather the Knicks just let Trier bring what Burke and THJr bring, in one body, at less money, and the chance he might elevate on D and passing. Burke and THJr, sure, 26 isn't ancient, but these guys aren't changing.

And tonight was more proof that THJr won't tone it down as a 3rd option. Sure, less touches will limit his bad tendencies, and he's not awful. He's ok. But for his cost, for what he brings in ability plus smarts and team play? Please, no.

[BowlRips]

I think so, but here's a diplomatic answer

The ball moves better as he has good IQ and I think the players know he'll get them the ball, but also if they reset and he gets it, it'll move again. Trust.

That said, Frank needs work all over the place. Asserting his will on the offense, in terms of "run this play". Making jumpers. Driving. Driving coming along, slowly. Jumper will come. Probably next year.

So, those things are good. It also speaks to how Burke and to an extent Mudiay, just really aren't that good at running a team, or at least a style conducive to team basketball. That's on offense. On defense there's no argument to make.

Mudiay I wouldn't mind as a cheap backup PG, as he's still got potential, his drive game is unlocking, and while he's not maybe as low key smart running a team like frank - not implying Frank is a genius or doing anything special, he's just very sound in a certain way, Mudiay tries to involve others. Meaning, he's sort of score first PG, but there's enough facilitating skills.
Burke is a nice scorer off the bench, but, nah, let another team who needs that have it.

Which is why to me that with anyone with half a brain that watches this team consistently (not box score watching) can say that Frank
a) has the physical tools to play
B) shows a high basketball high iq
C) has a largely positive impact on the court
D) especially defensively
E) is clearly saw raw offensively

At age 20- this is someone you hold on to and try to develop and if he gets it offensively he becomes a special player.

And some others who only look at box scores don’t realize that there’s so many players in this league putting up 13-19 points per game that contribute to the game in any other area that they just become replacement level players

I guess. It could be glass half full/empty, in that his game has real flaws still and if someone locks in on that, it's not untrue.
Ok, I was going to type more, but don't want get into the varying reasons of pros and cons. They are like politics, all over the place, some make sense, quite a bit of emotional stuff that is just believed.

I hear you and it’s frustrating to me that he can’t score either and it doesn’t appear he’ll ever become a scorer.
But then you go around the league and you see that on all these championship level teams there are players contributing on a 30 a minute a night basis where there role isn’t to be a scorer but to do everything else and while they may be putting the ball in the basketball better than Frank is it’s not hard to fathom him scoring at that level in the near future (ex: Marcus Smart, Shaun Livingston, Batum (in the past) and there’s a ton more