2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (III)

[sunsbg]

Euroleague > NCAA > NBA Regular season

I'm trying to figure out why NBA players look better in the league than in Euroleague/international play.

Main reasons : the amount of space, star treatment, style of play

The spacing helps so much a good passer like Jokic show his skills. In both Luka's triple double games DAJ's defender was not giving a damn about defending the pick-and-roll. Both Lopez and Ibaka were standing in the post. I know this is because DAJ is not a threat from outside, but it's still a bad idea to give the opposite team's best player so much space. Luka had a good game though against the Pistons, who played a proper PR defense, so I would conclude his immediate success in the league is a combination of his skills and style of play, which turned out fits perfectly in NBA.

[Archx]

I just want to say I've fallen in basketball love with Luka. And for those of you who don't appreciate him, I honestly feel bad because it's your loss. The combination of joy and skill with which he plays I'm not sure I've seen since Magic Johnson.

Whaaa? You sayin' Luka's better than Magic Johnson?!? Whaaa?

Totally kidding. Luka is fun to watch and, as I've said before, he plays with a joy that's infectious for fans.

Our guy is sneaky-fun to watch too. Had to throw that in since they're always gonna be linked.

I must admit i watched more ATL games this season than in the past 20 years combined. Trae/Collins/Huerter could be scary in few years. And most importantly it is fun to see young talent growing together.

But back to Luka. I know people compare his style to many legendary players but i see more and more LBJ in him. And by that i mean just the way he sees the floor, the spacing, his vision, going to the rim and draw fouls etc... I don't see much Harden in him apart from step back but his role model is LBJ and i know he's trying to play like him.
This is also the reason why i think he has no ceiling if he adds muscles and gets stronger. Teams have problems controlling him as it is. The only way you can shut him down is if he has a bad shooting night. And that's crazy....

Just as a disclaimer. I didn't say he is, or will be, as good as LBJ, i'm just comparing their game style and how they see and control the game with their own tempo.

[kg01]

I just want to say I've fallen in basketball love with Luka. And for those of you who don't appreciate him, I honestly feel bad because it's your loss. The combination of joy and skill with which he plays I'm not sure I've seen since Magic Johnson.

Whaaa? You sayin' Luka's better than Magic Johnson?!? Whaaa?

Totally kidding. Luka is fun to watch and, as I've said before, he plays with a joy that's infectious for fans.

Our guy is sneaky-fun to watch too. Had to throw that in since they're always gonna be linked.

I must admit i watched more ATL games this season than in the past 20 years combined. Trae/Collins/Huerter could be scary in few years. And most importantly it is fun to see young talent growing together.

I'm really encouraged by how they appear to compliment each other. Schlenk hasn't been good in his trades but his drafting has been pretty good. #PleaseKevinDon'tHuert'em has had some stellar moments and John the Baptist just DGAF. If we can nail this upcoming draft, we might be cookin' with grease.

Our new coach has impressed me in a way I didn't think he would.

For your own sake, I left off that part where you said Luka was as good as Lebron.

(Kidding, kidding I know you didn't say that but you know that's what some folks read.)

[Johnny Firpo]

I enjoy watching Trae's highlights of his good games, and you can definitely see that at his absolute best he could be a star. I don't know if he'll ever develop the consistency, but he certainly has a chance, why not? Also, he can already get to the line, which is very good to see. See DeAngelo Russell for example, the one clear thing that still holds him back as an offensive player is his inability to get to the line. He's still good, but I would much rather have Young.

[Stribor]

24 posts of nice conversation and objective comments about one of the best generations that entered in NBA. Must be a twilight zone

[Johnny Firpo]

I still feel Luka has somewhat higher chance for ligament injuries than you would like. He has many herky-jerky moves, and even though he is not a vertically explosive athlete, he puts enormous pressure on his joints and ligaments in situations where he is not exactly balanced. I hope he can avoid injuries and they continue to strengthen his core, I feel he made some good steps in this department, he looked alarming at the end of last season, running kind of hunched, and showing knee instability on some occasions. You see less and less of that, hopefully he'll continue to get stronger and lighter. LeBron could be an excellent athlete to follow, he did crapton of injury-prevention work over the years. Same for Steph, whom he already trained with. If you want to be one of the best, you have to stay healthy.

[Nuntius]

Our guy is sneaky-fun to watch too. Had to throw that in since they're always gonna be linked.

And, in my opinion, that is honestly unfair for both of them. I realize that this is the reality of draft night trades but I just wish that it wasn't. Trae Young is a good player in his own right. He's not Luka, obviously, but he shouldn't have to always be compared to him. We should just judge him based on his own performances.

[Nuntius]

Read on Twitter

Welp.

Not surprising at all. Dallas has good above-the-rim finishers (DAJ and Powell as Texas Chuck mentioned) and Luka is just extremely dangerous when he gets in the lane. He has a floater that will make rim protectors go out to him (thus freeing up the pass inside) and he can get the ball to his bigs in a number of different ways.

Also, it's not like they can leave him alone to stick to the roll man. He is shooting 60.9% in the RA and his size allows him to finish inside against most perimeter players.

[nolang1]

Unless Bagley becomes a bona fide floor spacer, I don't see how he co-exist with Fox. He's too rail thin to play the 5, which means their front court is going to clog the interior for Fox. I can see why Bjelica is starting when healthy.

Yeah the ruling where Luka (who has been playing pro basketball for years) is allowed to lift weights and get stronger and Bagley (who didn’t even get an off-season weights program in college because he reclassified and enrolled the month before the season started) isn’t really stinks, but I guess that’s the way it is.

[Johnny Firpo]

Unless Bagley becomes a bona fide floor spacer, I don't see how he co-exist with Fox. He's too rail thin to play the 5, which means their front court is going to clog the interior for Fox. I can see why Bjelica is starting when healthy.

Yeah the ruling where Luka (who has been playing pro basketball for years) is allowed to lift weights and get stronger and Bagley (who didn’t even get an off-season weights program in college because he reclassified and enrolled the month before the season started) isn’t really stinks, but I guess that’s the way it is.

Why do you have to mention Luka there? There was no reason for that.

[Dacost]

So who makes the all rookie team besides Donic and probably JJJ ????

[nolang1]

Unless Bagley becomes a bona fide floor spacer, I don't see how he co-exist with Fox. He's too rail thin to play the 5, which means their front court is going to clog the interior for Fox. I can see why Bjelica is starting when healthy.

Yeah the ruling where Luka (who has been playing pro basketball for years) is allowed to lift weights and get stronger and Bagley (who didn’t even get an off-season weights program in college because he reclassified and enrolled the month before the season started) isn’t really stinks, but I guess that’s the way it is.

Why do you have to mention Luka there? There was no reason for that.

Because like 5 posts before what I replied to there was a post about Luka has more room to improve than the other rookies because he is skilled already (and most players don't get more skilled) and adding muscle/conditioning is easy. Easy for everyone except Bagley, I suppose, who is going to be the only NBA player to not get stronger than where they were at age 19.

Bagley is playing with in all likelihood the worst 5 in the league for him at this point. Cauley-Stein is one of a handful of starters left in the entire league who doesn't shoot threes, and he's the worst rebounder out of all of them. Put Bagley next to any of the other non-shooting bigs (Capela, Adams, DJ, Gobert, and Ayton are the only ones who have played as many minutes as WCS) and that team would offset the lack of spacing by being #1 in offensive rebounding. Put him next to one who can shoot threes (which since it's not 2009 anymore is not particularly rare) and he can run pick-and-roll with Fox like he's naturally suited to.

[TheBallsDeeper]

I don't think he makes the all rookie team, but If they had a rookie sixth man Landrey Shamet would be in the running.

[VCfor3]

So who makes the all rookie team besides Donic and probably JJJ ????

Young and Ayton as well as maybe Bagley

[Archx]

So who makes the all rookie team besides Donic and probably JJJ ????

Young and Ayton as well as maybe Bagley

I think it's pretty much set for the top 5 picks. Unless someone like Knox can have a very strong 2nd half of the season. I don't see anyone else beating those 5.

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

Welp.

Helps that Dwight Powell and DeAndre are both tremendous finishers, but yeah the dude is special.

those 2 being good at jumping, catching a ball and dunking is about 10% of the equation. 90% is Doncic tearing defenses apart with his passing and scoring. He simply has them off balance. They dont know what he is doing. This is why ma

1. The largest factor is defenses must double off the pick or Luka will score at a 80% clip or higher. and draw fouls almost half the time he is scoring if left alone.

2. So defenses collapse on him and attempt to cover the roll man.

3. which leaves the corner 3 wide open. and barnes and mathews are hitting about 45% from the corners when winde open. Good on them.

4. If defenses double doncic in the paint off the rolls AND cover the corner then the roll man is wide open (Powell and DAJ for alley oops).

5. Doncic's pin point bread basket passing is making it all happen.

6. but before or that its his excellent handles and wide n tall frame making it impossible to disrupt his dribble. he gets where he wants. He makes defense pick their poison. And he then kills defense off with the poison of their choice.

No player in the NBA has done any of this as well as Doncic since magic johnson. Larry brid was just as good as Doncic(and magic) at these same type of "reads" but from the wing and from the post.

And this is why Larry Bird and magic Johnson are so grossly under rated and underestimated in all the Goat threads. Fact is both in their 8 year prime would top 4 all time and as good as any player that ever played. Better than MJ because they got more from team mates than MJ could...than Lebrons does.

To top it all off Doncic has Harden/steph calibre shot making off his own dribble and from deep and a flare for end of game dramatics like MJ.

Luka Doncic is essentially the perfect basketball player. He is the perfect combination of Magic Johnson and Larry bird.

Cuban...pretty please. get this guy some damn help!!!! Dallas could go deep in the playoffs right now with 2 really good role players.

[stilldropin20]

Read on Twitter

Welp.

Not surprising at all. Dallas has good above-the-rim finishers (DAJ and Powell as Texas Chuck mentioned) and Luka is just extremely dangerous when he gets in the lane. He has a floater that will make rim protectors go out to him (thus freeing up the pass inside) and he can get the ball to his bigs in a number of different ways.

Also, it's not like they can leave him alone to stick to the roll man. He is shooting 60.9% in the RA and his size allows him to finish inside against most perimeter players.

exactly. he can score at will within 10 feet. He draws fouls as well in the paint. so the HAVE to at least hard hedge is not double him off the pick. Which open up the roll man...if the wing covering the corner hedges down to cover the roll man Luka is tearing up defenses with missile passes to the bread basket in the corner for the bets shot in basketball (after the lay up, the corner 3.

Simply, Luka makes all the right reads, all the right passes, and all the right moves. He scores at will when they cover those team mates.

[schnakenpopanz]

the good thing about doncic is that he has a skill set that ages well.
other players who rely a lot on athleticism will have a harder back end of their career. not everyone can transform like vince carter did.

[Texas Chuck]

those 2 being good at jumping, catching a ball and dunking is about 10% of the equation. 90% is Doncic tearing defenses apart with his passing and scoring. He simply has them off balance. They dont know what he is doing.

I'm not attempting to equate their part of the equation with his. But we would be remiss if we didn't acknowledge that Jordan was the best roll man in the league for years, and Dwight Powell was the best roll man in the league last year and had been great this year mostly playing with Barea and not Doncic.

They are among the very best vertical threats in the league and I don't care how great Luka is, he's not throwing those passes to Dirk or Zaza Pachulia.

I love Luka, but it's okay for us to acknowledge the contributions other players make.

[agentofatlas]

those 2 being good at jumping, catching a ball and dunking is about 10% of the equation. 90% is Doncic tearing defenses apart with his passing and scoring. He simply has them off balance. They dont know what he is doing.

I'm not attempting to equate their part of the equation with his. But we would be remiss if we didn't acknowledge that Jordan was the best roll man in the league for years, and Dwight Powell was the best roll man in the league last year and had been great this year mostly playing with Barea and not Doncic.

They are among the very best vertical threats in the league and I don't care how great Luka is, he's not throwing those passes to Dirk or Zaza Pachulia.

I love Luka, but it's okay for us to acknowledge the contributions other players make.

True. The coaching staff also did a good job on telling him to emphasise the floater. Really opens up his options on the lane.