Official Trade Thread -- Part XXXVII

[gambitx777]

I think there might be a team out there willing to give up a bit more value for ariza and Jeff green I don't want no part of that Davis trade. If I were magic I'd say naw, take any one except bron and kuzma. If they don't like it. Bye! They can get other all star level guys cheaper than that.

No....they cant
All their elite "Prospects" crapped the bed this year and tanked their value...
Trade everyone necessary. Go into Summer with 26M in cap room and look for a 3rd piece...

Or even trade for Conley or Wall and backfill with Full MLE... Danny Green?
Wall
Green
FA
Bron
AD

I don't view AD like every one else does. Is he amazing sure. But what has he done on his own? He gets hurt a good bit. I mean I view LeBron and kuzma as possibly what Robinson and Duncan was. An all time great in the end of his run playing with a future stud. I think AD is worth every one and every thing not named kuzma. But he can't do it alone and LeBron won't be around forever and kuzma and AD could rule the NBA once bron leaves. I think the Lakers need to step back and not be so happy to sell everything, I'd offer pope, lonzo, Ingram, Hart zubac and some picks. A lot of value. And I'd hold fast with that and be willing to walk away, you can build a champion ship team with out AD it's not all or nothing imo.

[Dat2U]

I think there might be a team out there willing to give up a bit more value for ariza and Jeff green I don't want no part of that Davis trade. If I were magic I'd say naw, take any one except bron and kuzma. If they don't like it. Bye! They can get other all star level guys cheaper than that.

No....they cant
All their elite "Prospects" crapped the bed this year and tanked their value...
Trade everyone necessary. Go into Summer with 26M in cap room and look for a 3rd piece...

Or even trade for Conley or Wall and backfill with Full MLE... Danny Green?
Wall
Green
FA
Bron
AD

I don't view AD like every one else does. Is he amazing sure. But what has he done on his own? He gets hurt a good bit. I mean I view LeBron and kuzma as possibly what Robinson and Duncan was. An all time great in the end of his run playing with a future stud. I think AD is worth every one and every thing not named kuzma. But he can't do it alone and LeBron won't be around forever and kuzma and AD could rule the NBA once bron leaves. I think the Lakers need to step back and not be so happy to sell everything, I'd offer pope, lonzo, Ingram, Hart zubac and some picks. A lot of value. And I'd hold fast with that and be willing to walk away, you can build a champion ship team with out AD it's not all or nothing imo.

No one shares the view of Kuzma you have.

He doesnt play a lick of D and has an inconsistent jumper. He's also only two years younger than Davis. He's pretty much the player he will always be.

The Lakers should give up Kuzma in a heartbeat. Their assets aren't that good to be holding onto. These are all relatively inconsequential pieces.

[payitforward]

For next year, we have AD, Otto, Solomon Hill, Kenrich Williams, Courtney Lee, Mitchell Robinson, Damyean Dotson, Troy Brown, Satoransky, Dekker, Thomas Bryant, Chasson Randle & our R1 pick -- 13 players out of 14 -- for a total of @ $108m (assuming Sato/Dekker/Bryant = @ total of $15m). Re-sign Green to make it 14.

Robinson, Bryant, Dotson, Brown, Williams & our R1 pick are very young players with a whole lot of combined upside.

AD, Otto, & Sato are young veterans entering the best part of their careers. A really tremendous trio. If he keeps playing the way he has so far as a Wizard, Dekker makes that a quartet. Randle looks to be an acceptable journeyman.

Hill, Lee & Green are solid veteran leaders who can still contribute some.

PIF, AD wants out of New Orleans because he wants to win a championship. I seriously doubt that the team you've assembled above is capable of winning a championship. It's probably not even a top 4 seed in the east. AD would be gone when he becomes a free agent in 2020.

Or maybe you're not really being serious with this scenario. I can't tell for sure.

It's a significantly better team than the one we have now. & this team is winning a lot of games. All the same, you're certainly right in the sense that we wouldn't win a title next year.

But, we'd be a team with a big-time future. Anthony Davis, Otto Porter, Mitchell Robinson, Thomas Bryant, Tomas Satoransky...? That's a lot of awfully good players. & we'd be set up to improve rapidly too.

Partly, that's b/c of how many good young players we'd have. Dotson doesn't have a name yet, but he is a very good player. Mitchell Robinson looks like he's going to be a monster. Bryant is tremendous. Brown just needs to play. K. Williams is just a guy at the end of the bench.

But also, we'd be able to improve, b/c Hill & Lee would be expiring next year -- freeing up $25m in salary.

Now... all that said, you are no doubt on the money in suggesting that AD wouldn't want to come here &, if traded here, might be expecting to leave. But, if things went well, that could change.

Anyway, we both know this isn't going to happen! In that sense, I guess it's fair to question whether I'm "serious." I just hope, for AD's own sake, that he doesn't wind up on the Knicks, b/c that team is going absolutely nowhere!

[payitforward]

...I view LeBron and kuzma as possibly what Robinson and Duncan was. An all time great in the end of his run playing with a future stud. ...

No one shares the view of Kuzma you have. ...

Even more importantly, what possible evidence is there for this high view of Kuzma? That he had a really good 2017 SL?

His numbers weren't good last year, & they aren't as good this year as last.

[nate33]

Could an AD to LA deal open up a potential Wall to LA trade?

Think about it. Once LA has Davis and Lebron under contract they won't really have full max space to sign a third guy, particularly if they're forced to take on Solomon Hill as part of trade. Lebron and Davis combine to cost $64M and ten vet minimum cap holds and Deng's phantom salary gets them to $79M. That leaves just $31M for a 3rd free agent, which is just under the max (roughly $38M) and leaves the team with absolutely no depth at all. If Solomon Hill is on the payroll, then they have just $18M in cap room next summer.

So instead of waiting until the summer to assemble their team when they'll really only have $18M (or maybe $31M) to find 10 players to surround AD and Lebron, why not build the team now using trades? They could send out whatever contracts they have leftover after the AD trade (Beasley, Stephenson, KCP, Rondo, etc) in exchange for better players who aren't wanted by their own teams because they're overpaid.

The guy that makes sense here is John Wall, because LA only needs to send out about $14M in salary now to get him. How else can they get a 3rd star for just $14M in salary ballast. Here's the 3-way trade:

LA trades: Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, KCP, Beasley, Lance, Zubac, McGee
LA receives: Davis, Wall, Frazier, K.Williams

NO trades: Davis, S.Hill, Frazier, K.Willilams
NO recieves: Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, KCP, Lance, Zubac

WASH trades: Wall
WASH receives: S.Hill, Beasley, McGee

LA gets a trio for the future with Wall, Lebron and Davis, while keeping Rondo to get them through this year. They also retain Hart and Chandler. They're going to have to be very active on the waiver wire though. I'd happily give them some wings (Ariza or Dekker) but they can't absorb any more salary in the trade and they have no TPE's over $1.5M

NO gets three young players, and dumps Hill. LA should throw in some picks but the exact number and nature of the picks is irrelevant to the conversation. I'm working on a salary structure here.

The Wizards dump Wall and have one year of Hill's contract to show for it.

[Dat2U]

On my fantasy 'ish again. How bout this:

Beal, Brown Jr & 2020 1st for AD

Then follow it up with

Otto to Philly for Butler & Patton. Embiid & Simmons are better without Butler. Otto is a better compliment to the duo and younger.

We'd have this lineup to scare the East the rest of the year:

G Satoransky / C. Randle
G J. Butler
F Ariza / Dekker
F A. Davis / Je. Green / Morris
C T. Bryant / Howard / Mahinmi

We'd probably try to resign Butler and sell AD that a big three of AD, Butler & Wall can contend.

[Sactowndog]

...it’s really hard to discern what strategic plan the Wiz are following.

I can never get a read on what Vlade Divac would do...

HOF exchange between fans!!

I’m not sure we are the only two who don’t always follow Vlade and Ernie’s logic.

[dangermouse]

On my fantasy 'ish again. How bout this:

Beal, Brown Jr & 2020 1st for AD

Then follow it up with

Otto to Philly for Butler & Patton. Embiid & Simmons are better without Butler. Otto is a better compliment to the duo and younger.

We'd have this lineup to scare the East the rest of the year:

G Satoransky / C. Randle
G J. Butler
F Ariza / Dekker
F A. Davis / Je. Green / Morris
C T. Bryant / Howard / Mahinmi

We'd probably try to resign Butler and sell AD that a big three of AD, Butler & Wall can contend.

I do love this. All of it. I love Beal but this is a team I could root for. If we aren't trading Wall (and its not a very likely scenario) then instead of a re-load and kicking the can down the road another 2-3 years, trading our best young guys to contend now with that group as a 'last chance in the Wall era' move would be a much better alternative.

[DCZards]

On my fantasy 'ish again. How bout this:

Beal, Brown Jr & 2020 1st for AD

Then follow it up with

Otto to Philly for Butler & Patton. Embiid & Simmons are better without Butler. Otto is a better compliment to the duo and younger.

We'd have this lineup to scare the East the rest of the year:

G Satoransky / C. Randle
G J. Butler
F Ariza / Dekker
F A. Davis / Je. Green / Morris
C T. Bryant / Howard / Mahinmi

We'd probably try to resign Butler and sell AD that a big three of AD, Butler & Wall can contend.

Can't argue with any trade that brings AD to the Zards...even if it means trading my favorite Wizard. But why not keep Porter? Wouldn't he be a better fit with Wall and AD than Butler? Butler needs the ball to be at his best...as does Wall and AD. Porter, on the other hand, is a catch-and-shoot guy who should thrive playing next to Wall and AD...and the attention they would draw.

And Porter is 4 years younger than Butler. Plus Butler wears out his welcome every where he goes. So why give up a high character, unselfish guy like Porter to take on that headache.

[dangermouse]

A team built around Beal and AD would be infinitely better, but there would be no chance of getting AD without giving up Beal, and I feel like a deal based on Beal + our first is a deal that would be hard to match. Only NYK could come close with Porzingis + pick.

And I'd have to agree with above too. Wall/Ariza/Porter/AD/Bryant would be damn good. Or Wall/Sato/Porter/AD/Bryant. Either way. Can still switch everything on D like we love to do, plus rim protection.

[Ruzious]

A team built around Beal and AD would be infinitely better, but there would be no chance of getting AD without giving up Beal, and I feel like a deal based on Beal + our first is a deal that would be hard to match. Only NYK could come close with Porzingis + pick.

And I'd have to agree with above too. Wall/Ariza/Porter/AD/Bryant would be damn good. Or Wall/Sato/Porter/AD/Bryant. Either way. Can still switch everything on D like we love to do, plus rim protection.

I don't think NY has much chance, because it'd take Porz + their 1st, and if they traded both - they wouldn't have enough to build around AD. I think Toronto could make the best offer - building a trade around Siacam and others - but would AD really want to live in Canada - probably not. Ultimately, even though the Lakers don't have a true centerpiece, they probably end up getting it done, because other teams will not have the belief he'd re-sign with them.

But... we can certainly try to get him. How about Beal, Porter and our 1st (maybe add a future 1st?) for AD, Mirotic (free agent), and Wesley Johnson (expiring)? Figure that while Mirotic is expensive to re-sign, he'll still cost about 10 mil a year less than Otto. And Johnson's a 6.1 mil expiring. Wash saves 7.4 mil (pro-rated?) this season - maybe enough to get them out of the lux tax - and gives them somewhere around 15 mil extra for next season (maybe another 2 or 3 mil for not having a 1st round pick to sign) - so they can re-sign the free agents they want to and use the MLE - gotta get a starting wing with the MLE - maybe Terrence Ross? And figure AD will want to play with Wall - both being KY guys. Definitely counting on Wall to make a 100% recovery.

[Dat2U]

On my fantasy 'ish again. How bout this:

Beal, Brown Jr & 2020 1st for AD

Then follow it up with

Otto to Philly for Butler & Patton. Embiid & Simmons are better without Butler. Otto is a better compliment to the duo and younger.

We'd have this lineup to scare the East the rest of the year:

G Satoransky / C. Randle
G J. Butler
F Ariza / Dekker
F A. Davis / Je. Green / Morris
C T. Bryant / Howard / Mahinmi

We'd probably try to resign Butler and sell AD that a big three of AD, Butler & Wall can contend.

Can't argue with any trade that brings AD to the Zards...even if it means trading my favorite Wizard. But why not keep Porter? Wouldn't he be a better fit with Wall and AD than Butler? Butler needs the ball to be at his best...as does Wall and AD. Porter, on the other hand, is a catch-and-shoot guy who should thrive playing next to Wall and AD...and the attention they would draw.

And Porter is 4 years younger than Butler. Plus Butler wears out his welcome every where he goes. So why give up a high character, unselfish guy like Porter to take on that headache.

Frankly Butler is better and a top 10-ish player at his best. This isnt about who plays nice in the locker room either. Otto as has a bad relationship with Wall - this is a fact so it makes sense to break up the dynamic. Also this is about right now and next season. Otto can be gone in 2 seasons anyways.

Finally an Otto for Butler swap balances out the roster. Without it we'd be starting Ariza at SG.

[Ruzious]

On my fantasy 'ish again. How bout this:

Beal, Brown Jr & 2020 1st for AD

Then follow it up with

Otto to Philly for Butler & Patton. Embiid & Simmons are better without Butler. Otto is a better compliment to the duo and younger.

We'd have this lineup to scare the East the rest of the year:

G Satoransky / C. Randle
G J. Butler
F Ariza / Dekker
F A. Davis / Je. Green / Morris
C T. Bryant / Howard / Mahinmi

We'd probably try to resign Butler and sell AD that a big three of AD, Butler & Wall can contend.

Yeah, actually I might like your scenario better than mine - except I think you need to add a "knockdown" 3 point shooter better/younger than A3za. And no need to re-sign Morris.

[nate33]

On my fantasy 'ish again. How bout this:

Beal, Brown Jr & 2020 1st for AD

Then follow it up with

Otto to Philly for Butler & Patton. Embiid & Simmons are better without Butler. Otto is a better compliment to the duo and younger.

We'd have this lineup to scare the East the rest of the year:

G Satoransky / C. Randle
G J. Butler
F Ariza / Dekker
F A. Davis / Je. Green / Morris
C T. Bryant / Howard / Mahinmi

We'd probably try to resign Butler and sell AD that a big three of AD, Butler & Wall can contend.

Can't argue with any trade that brings AD to the Zards...even if it means trading my favorite Wizard. But why not keep Porter? Wouldn't he be a better fit with Wall and AD than Butler? Butler needs the ball to be at his best...as does Wall and AD. Porter, on the other hand, is a catch-and-shoot guy who should thrive playing next to Wall and AD...and the attention they would draw.

And Porter is 4 years younger than Butler. Plus Butler wears out his welcome every where he goes. So why give up a high character, unselfish guy like Porter to take on that headache.

Frankly Butler is better and a top 10-ish player at his best. This isnt about who plays nice in the locker room either. Otto as has a bad relationship with Wall - this is a fact so it makes sense to break up the dynamic. Also this is about right now and next season. Otto can be gone in 2 seasons anyways.

Finally an Otto for Butler swap balances out the roster. Without it we'd be starting Ariza at SG.

Could we try a Mahinmi for Hardaway Jr. swap as an alternative means to balance our roster? NY considers it to shave a year off of Hardaway's contract. Mahinmi would be more movable or stretchable this offseason. We keep Porter and roll with:

PG Sato/Randall
SG Hardaway/Ariza
SF Ariza/Porter
PF Davis/Green
C Bryant/Davis

It's hard to see why that team is any better than New Orleans (other than playing in the East), but next year you would have:

PG Wall/Sato
SG Sato/Hardaway
SF Porter
PF Davis/Green
C Bryant/Davis

That looks pretty interesting.

[pcbothwel]

Mahinmi is a better Center than THJ is a guard... Any positive you obtain from balance/positional premium is offset by the contract(3M more next year and 19M in 20-21 !!!).
Mahinmi has the 16th highest DRPM out of 500 NBA players. He plays hard, smart team defense, and hits his FT's. Bryant simply isnt strong, quick, or savvy enough for some of the bigger/better Centers in the league... yet.

Mahinmi is a great compliment and mentor to Bryant in that regard. I hate his contract too, but look at what Mahinmi has done with his FT shooting and fitness... Guys like him make your team and locker room better.
Guys like THJ are empty stat padders that want "Touches".

No thanks

[nate33]

Mahinmi is a better Center than THJ is a guard... Any positive you obtain from balance/positional premium is offset by the contract(3M more next year and 19M in 20-21 !!!).
Mahinmi has the 16th highest DRPM out of 500 NBA players. He plays hard, smart team defense, and hits his FT's. Bryant simply isnt strong, quick, or savvy enough for some of the bigger/better Centers in the league... yet.

Mahinmi is a great compliment and mentor to Bryant in that regard. I hate his contract too, but look at what Mahinmi has done with his FT shooting and fitness... Guys like him make your team and locker room better.
Guys like THJ are empty stat padders that want "Touches".

No thanks

Mahinmi would get no important minutes on this team though. Davis is going to play a lot of minutes at center and when he's not there, Bryant will play center.

I think Hardaway could be an average starting shooting guard in the right role. Obviously, he has been thrust into a position in NY where he has to carry the offensive load because nobody else can, and he's not up to the task. But when he was in Atlanta two years ago in a more appropriate role, he put up some respectable numbers: 19 points per 36 with a TS% of .568 and an ORtg of 110.

[TGW]

Looks like the Pelicans roster is for sale.

Kieff + 1st rounder for Randle?

[nate33]

Looks like the Pelicans roster is for sale.

Kieff + 1st rounder for Randle?

I have no interest in being a buyer right now. And I'm certainly not giving up a 1st for a guy who can opt out this summer.

[DCZards]

Frankly Butler is better and a top 10-ish player at his best. This isnt about who plays nice in the locker room either. Otto as has a bad relationship with Wall - this is a fact so it makes sense to break up the dynamic. Also this is about right now and next season. Otto can be gone in 2 seasons anyways.

Finally an Otto for Butler swap balances out the roster. Without it we'd be starting Ariza at SG.

Not long ago I would have said the same thing regarding Butler and how he might impact the lockerroom. Not anymore though. I don't think you want the drama that Jimmy brings. To quote Maya Angelou: “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”

And Butler becomes an UFA this year, which means you're looking at signing both him and AD to max contracts. Can the Zards do that and not be way over the lux tax? If you trade for Butler he might be gone this offseason.

I agree with the need to balance the roster, but I think you can find other ways of doing it than trading Porter for Butler.

[nate33]

Frankly Butler is better and a top 10-ish player at his best. This isnt about who plays nice in the locker room either. Otto as has a bad relationship with Wall - this is a fact so it makes sense to break up the dynamic. Also this is about right now and next season. Otto can be gone in 2 seasons anyways.

Finally an Otto for Butler swap balances out the roster. Without it we'd be starting Ariza at SG.

Not long ago I would have said the same thing regarding Butler and how he might impact the lockerroom. Not anymore though. I don't think you want the drama that Jimmy brings. To quote Maya Angelou: “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”

And Butler becomes an UFA this year, which means you're looking at signing both him and AD to max contracts. Can the Zards do that and not be way over the lux tax? If you trade for Butler he might be gone this offseason.

I agree with the need to balance the roster, but I think you can find other ways of doing it than trading Porter for Butler.

I'm inclined to agree with you about avoiding Butler.

It's worth noting that he probably won't cost a full max deal though. I don't think anyone else will offer it. (Although, if we don't offer one, he may be butt hurt enough to join another team in free agency even if they're offering less money than us.)