2018/19 ROY/Rookie Discussion Thread (III)

[Imon]

Trae has really been ballin' of late and the Hawks have done better lately - I suppose it's not much of a stretch to say they are related?

In other news - I know Ayton has been out for awhile with a sprain ... any chance the Suns are purposefully accelerating the tank? I mean, besides for the Knicks, the Suns have the worst 10-game stretch in the NBA.

[ATLHoops97]

Trae with his 14th 20 point game of the year, including a dagger 3! 26/8/4

Yall can continue to sleep on him!

[Kabookalu]

Trae Young is so fun to watch when he's making his shots, glad he's picked it up lately. The guy is already so damn good at manipulating his defenders' positioning with simple head fakes and such, very Jason Kidd like.

[King Ken]

Trae has really been ballin' of late and the Hawks have done better lately - I suppose it's not much of a stretch to say they are related?

In other news - I know Ayton has been out for awhile with a sprain ... any chance the Suns are purposefully accelerating the tank? I mean, besides for the Knicks, the Suns have the worst 10-game stretch in the NBA.

He has been balling since we inserted Kevin into the starting lineup in the middle of December.

He still has along way to go but he is impactful as a rookie.

[bwgood77]

Trae has really been ballin' of late and the Hawks have done better lately - I suppose it's not much of a stretch to say they are related?

In other news - I know Ayton has been out for awhile with a sprain ... any chance the Suns are purposefully accelerating the tank? I mean, besides for the Knicks, the Suns have the worst 10-game stretch in the NBA.

No. No chance. They are just terrible. Things are not good with the team right now. If Ayton was ok, he'd be playing. I think he's doubtful tomorrow. And two other starters are out, so things likely won't get any better soon.

[mcmurphy]

Read on Twitter

Welp.

Helps that Dwight Powell and DeAndre are both tremendous finishers, but yeah the dude is special.

those 2 being good at jumping, catching a ball and dunking is about 10% of the equation. 90% is Doncic tearing defenses apart with his passing and scoring. He simply has them off balance. They dont know what he is doing. This is why ma

1. The largest factor is defenses must double off the pick or Luka will score at a 80% clip or higher. and draw fouls almost half the time he is scoring if left alone.

2. So defenses collapse on him and attempt to cover the roll man.

3. which leaves the corner 3 wide open. and barnes and mathews are hitting about 45% from the corners when winde open. Good on them.

4. If defenses double doncic in the paint off the rolls AND cover the corner then the roll man is wide open (Powell and DAJ for alley oops).

5. Doncic's pin point bread basket passing is making it all happen.

6. but before or that its his excellent handles and wide n tall frame making it impossible to disrupt his dribble. he gets where he wants. He makes defense pick their poison. And he then kills defense off with the poison of their choice.

No player in the NBA has done any of this as well as Doncic since magic johnson. Larry brid was just as good as Doncic(and magic) at these same type of "reads" but from the wing and from the post.

And this is why Larry Bird and magic Johnson are so grossly under rated and underestimated in all the Goat threads. Fact is both in their 8 year prime would top 4 all time and as good as any player that ever played. Better than MJ because they got more from team mates than MJ could...than Lebrons does.

To top it all off Doncic has Harden/steph calibre shot making off his own dribble and from deep and a flare for end of game dramatics like MJ.

Luka Doncic is essentially the perfect basketball player. He is the perfect combination of Magic Johnson and Larry bird.

Cuban...pretty please. get this guy some damn help!!!! Dallas could go deep in the playoffs right now with 2 really good role players.

I agree with your analysis.
He would have been even more perfect if he had the defense of Bird and not that of Magic... otherwise he seems to have taken the best of both.

p.s.
with this I do not mean that Luka is at the level of Magic or Bird... I mean that his game is a hybrid of the two

[Mulhollanddrive]

Trae Young's been better than I thought recently.

Last 20 games - 17 points, 7 assists @ 48-37-81% with 108 O-Rating.

Just about the same as DeAaron Fox's season.

[Ugly0598]

Trae Young #2 ahead of Ayton at this point.

[Archx]

Trae with his 14th 20 point game of the year, including a dagger 3! 26/8/4

Yall can continue to sleep on him!

Don't forget that he only had 1 TO. Which is probably most impressive stat at this point. If he can continue like this it will really increase his efficiency and help ATL have more possessions.

[GoodBehavior]

Yeah the ruling where Luka (who has been playing pro basketball for years) is allowed to lift weights and get stronger and Bagley (who didn’t even get an off-season weights program in college because he reclassified and enrolled the month before the season started) isn’t really stinks, but I guess that’s the way it is.

Why do you have to mention Luka there? There was no reason for that.

Because like 5 posts before what I replied to there was a post about Luka has more room to improve than the other rookies because he is skilled already (and most players don't get more skilled) and adding muscle/conditioning is easy. Easy for everyone except Bagley, I suppose, who is going to be the only NBA player to not get stronger than where they were at age 19.

Bagley is playing with in all likelihood the worst 5 in the league for him at this point. Cauley-Stein is one of a handful of starters left in the entire league who doesn't shoot threes, and he's the worst rebounder out of all of them. Put Bagley next to any of the other non-shooting bigs (Capela, Adams, DJ, Gobert, and Ayton are the only ones who have played as many minutes as WCS) and that team would offset the lack of spacing by being #1 in offensive rebounding. Put him next to one who can shoot threes (which since it's not 2009 anymore is not particularly rare) and he can run pick-and-roll with Fox like he's naturally suited to.

The number of centers who can shoot 3s is still a small number. It's an exception rather than the rule.

[shakes0]

So who makes the all rookie team besides Donic and probably JJJ ????

JJJ? He's 4th at best right now.

Doncic is clear #1

Ayton and Trae are clearly alone in the next tier.

JJJ #4 way behind the other 3.

[Dacost]

So who makes the all rookie team besides Donic and probably JJJ ????

JJJ? He's 4th at best right now.

Doncic is clear #1

Ayton and Trae are clearly alone in the next tier.

JJJ #4 way behind the other 3.

I disagree JJJ is a way better on defende than all 3 Defensive impact counts too right ?!

If it doesn't than you're right.

[shakes0]

So who makes the all rookie team besides Donic and probably JJJ ????

JJJ? He's 4th at best right now.

Doncic is clear #1

Ayton and Trae are clearly alone in the next tier.

JJJ #4 way behind the other 3.

I disagree JJJ is a way better on defende than all 3 Defensive impact counts too right ?!

If it doesn't than you're right.

Defense barely counts for ROY. Similar to winning which also barely counts for ROY purposes.

JJJ is a good distance behind the top 3 offensively. He is closer to being #5 than being #4 at this point.

[Dacost]

JJJ? He's 4th at best right now.

Doncic is clear #1

Ayton and Trae are clearly alone in the next tier.

JJJ #4 way behind the other 3.

I disagree JJJ is a way better on defende than all 3 Defensive impact counts too right ?!

If it doesn't than you're right.

Defense barely counts for ROY. Similar to winning which also barely counts for ROY purposes.

JJJ is a good distance behind the top 3 offensively. He is closer to being #5 than being #4 at this point.

But who says that or why is that the norm !?

For example JJJ is an (slightly)overall better player than Ayton at this point if you count both ends.When it comes to impact.

If you go by just offensive stats than it should not be call ROY it should be call OROY.

[Imon]

JJJ? He's 4th at best right now.

Doncic is clear #1

Ayton and Trae are clearly alone in the next tier.

JJJ #4 way behind the other 3.

I disagree JJJ is a way better on defende than all 3 Defensive impact counts too right ?!

If it doesn't than you're right.

Defense barely counts for ROY. Similar to winning which also barely counts for ROY purposes.

JJJ is a good distance behind the top 3 offensively. He is closer to being #5 than being #4 at this point.

Who is your #5 then?

Personally I think JJJ is solidly in the #4 spot.
Right now I'd go:
Luka
Ayton (could fall to 3 if he misses more games and Trae continues to ball)
Trae
JJJ
Bagley

*big gap*

Other rookies

[shakes0]

I disagree JJJ is a way better on defende than all 3 Defensive impact counts too right ?!

If it doesn't than you're right.

Defense barely counts for ROY. Similar to winning which also barely counts for ROY purposes.

JJJ is a good distance behind the top 3 offensively. He is closer to being #5 than being #4 at this point.

Who is your #5 then?

Personally I think JJJ is solidly in the #4 spot.
Right now I'd go:
Luka
Ayton (could fall to 3 if he misses more games and Trae continues to ball)
Trae
JJJ
Bagley

*big gap*

Other rookies

agree 100% with your list. Bagley and Trae possibly moving up 1 spot by the end of the season.

[nolang1]

Why do you have to mention Luka there? There was no reason for that.

Because like 5 posts before what I replied to there was a post about Luka has more room to improve than the other rookies because he is skilled already (and most players don't get more skilled) and adding muscle/conditioning is easy. Easy for everyone except Bagley, I suppose, who is going to be the only NBA player to not get stronger than where they were at age 19.

Bagley is playing with in all likelihood the worst 5 in the league for him at this point. Cauley-Stein is one of a handful of starters left in the entire league who doesn't shoot threes, and he's the worst rebounder out of all of them. Put Bagley next to any of the other non-shooting bigs (Capela, Adams, DJ, Gobert, and Ayton are the only ones who have played as many minutes as WCS) and that team would offset the lack of spacing by being #1 in offensive rebounding. Put him next to one who can shoot threes (which since it's not 2009 anymore is not particularly rare) and he can run pick-and-roll with Fox like he's naturally suited to.

The number of centers who can shoot 3s is still a small number. It's an exception rather than the rule.

Small relative to what? There are only 30 teams in the league, and the majority of them have a center who can at least shoot threes well enough that a team can’t just totally abandon them to clog the paint. Just going through the East, there’s Lopez, Ibaka/Valanciunas, Embiid, Horford, Turner, Vucevic, Bryant, Zeller/Hernangomez, Len/Dedmon, and Vonleh.

And like I mentioned, the ones who aren’t are much stronger interior presences than Cauley-Stein to the point that Bagley paired with one of them would form a frontcourt that could bully teams on the offensive glass while not giving up much on the defensive end as Bagley can still guard on the perimeter.

[juanc]

I disagree JJJ is a way better on defende than all 3 Defensive impact counts too right ?!

If it doesn't than you're right.

Defense barely counts for ROY. Similar to winning which also barely counts for ROY purposes.

JJJ is a good distance behind the top 3 offensively. He is closer to being #5 than being #4 at this point.

Who is your #5 then?

Personally I think JJJ is solidly in the #4 spot.
Right now I'd go:
Luka
Ayton (could fall to 3 if he misses more games and Trae continues to ball)
Trae
JJJ
Bagley

*big gap*

Other rookies

There isn't a big gap between Bagley and Kurucs if you ask me.

[Imon]

There isn't a big gap between Bagley and Kurucs if you ask me.

How about between SGA and Kurucs?
I'll be honest, I haven't been following the Nets but I watched the the LAC play a bit and SGA looks promising, especially if he gets stronger.

[E-Balla]

Why do you have to mention Luka there? There was no reason for that.

Because like 5 posts before what I replied to there was a post about Luka has more room to improve than the other rookies because he is skilled already (and most players don't get more skilled) and adding muscle/conditioning is easy. Easy for everyone except Bagley, I suppose, who is going to be the only NBA player to not get stronger than where they were at age 19.

Bagley is playing with in all likelihood the worst 5 in the league for him at this point. Cauley-Stein is one of a handful of starters left in the entire league who doesn't shoot threes, and he's the worst rebounder out of all of them. Put Bagley next to any of the other non-shooting bigs (Capela, Adams, DJ, Gobert, and Ayton are the only ones who have played as many minutes as WCS) and that team would offset the lack of spacing by being #1 in offensive rebounding. Put him next to one who can shoot threes (which since it's not 2009 anymore is not particularly rare) and he can run pick-and-roll with Fox like he's naturally suited to.

The number of centers who can shoot 3s is still a small number. It's an exception rather than the rule.

Not really. Brook Lopez, Ibaka/Val, Turner, Embiid, Horford, Vucci Mane, and Dedmon are all EC starting Cs. That's 7 of the 15 EC teams.